730 réponses à ce sujet

[DragonRageGT]

I really would love if all the energy wasted in DLC's were concentrated into making one big expansion pack with  all those features, perhaps, and more. Like it was with NWN, SoA and HotU. That was worthy.

But people pay for stuff that kills them. It doesn't make them cool. Or pay for stuff to stick up their *****. It doesn't make them smart!

Video games are, like many other things, objects of addiction and compulsion and the whole DLC thing, the way it is used now, looks pretty much as drug trafficking to me. Just one thing though, people who haven't got the money for their fix sometimes finds other ways to get it even if they risk a lot in the process.

[Xewaka]

Stanley Woo wrote...
Usually, DLC is developed late in production by either a different team or by some of the original team who may not be needed for the main game anymore. Writers and some designers, for example, are most needed at the start and the middle of production, and less so at the end of a project.
Because it is a bonus and an extra, it has a slightly lower priority than the main game. The main game has to be content-locked and the game sent for certification anywhere between 2-8 weeks before the street date. If a game fails certification, whatever caused it to fail must get fixed, which means the entire thing must be tested again. The game must be certified all over again from the beginning because the game on disc has changed.
During the certification process, some folks can be working on a day 1 patch or moved to other projects (they're certainly not sitting idle). They could also be working to finish the DLC that will be made available on day 1. Because it is downloadable content, there is no physical media to manufacture and distribute, which means the DLC can be finished closer to the street date. It still has to be certified, but the process is much faster because it is a) not on physical media and much, much smaller than a full-sized game. Appearance packs and weapons are compartively smaller and simpler than story and character-based DLC, and people and effort are scheduled accordingly.
So, like a meal order in a kitchen, the team tries to schedule things so that everything is finished in time to come out together.

How much of the day 1 DLC is actually dummied out in the disc, however? Based on something as simple as the size of the downloaded file, there's no way that say, Sebastian's three arc quests -with all the voice acting and exclusive textures, etc- are in the scant few mbs downloaded by the player. It feels more like you're downloading an activator than an actual, hefty downloadable content.

[ItsFreakinJesus]

CerberusSoldier wrote...

Get use to the fact DLC is a part of games from now on

I'm just waiting on the day when DLC is used in lieu of unneeded standard releases and sequels.  IE, yearly sports games when DLC is all that's needed and more GTA: Episodes of Liberty City inspired stuff that takes the assets of the core game (GTA4 in this case) and crafting a new plot with new characters out of what's already there.  Kind of what Awakening was if you didn't import your Grey Warden from Dragon Age Origins in.

Supplimentary DLC is cool, but Bioware should look into creating a ME3 DLC that didn't necessarily involve Shepard or the standard ME squad.  I imagine that if Infiltrator wasn't an iOS game, it'd be ME3 DLC in my fantasy world months down the line, built using ME3 assets and whatnot.  Getting new missions is cool, getting something that provides a new story experience instead of enhancing the core story experience would be even better. 

[Femlob]

How much of the day 1 DLC is actually dummied out in the disc,
however? Based on something as simple as the size of the downloaded
file, there's no way that say, Sebastian's three arc quests -with all
the voice acting and exclusive textures, etc- are in the scant few mbs
downloaded by the player. It feels more like you're downloading an
activator than an actual, hefty downloadable content.

Depends on the number of new assets. A couple of new missions reusing existing assets won't add up to more than a few MBs.

[Xewaka]

Femlob wrote...

How much of the day 1 DLC is actually dummied out in the disc, however? Based on something as simple as the size of the downloaded file, there's no way that say, Sebastian's three arc quests -with all the voice acting and exclusive textures, etc- are in the scant few mbs downloaded by the player. It feels more like you're downloading an activator than an actual, hefty downloadable content.

Depends on the number of new assets. A couple of new missions reusing existing assets won't add up to more than a few MBs.

Consider that Sebastian is a DLC companion for Dragon Age 2, fully voiced and with integrated party banter. The sound packages alone don't add up to that size.

Modifié par Xewaka, 09 février 2012 - 09:58 .

[Terror_K]

TCBC_Freak wrote...

You know what I'm tired of? Having to pay extra for cheese on my hamburger. Darn you Burger King, why not include it, because we all know that cheese is needed to fully experience the burger in all its glory. And while we are at it, I'm sick of paying more for Coke than Dr. Pepper, when will these soda companies learn to price it all the same.... it's not like Dr. Pepper is easier to make than Coke.

That analogy falls flat on its face though, because what BioWare is doing is more akin to not even allowing you to add cheese to a single burger unless you buy two other large meals, or not allowing you to add cheese because of the car you drive or the place you live. If they would just let me pay to add the cheese on the hamburger it wouldn't be so much of an issue, but they won't... not unless I give them 10 times as much money as it costs by buying stuff I don't want, or because I'm not local and drive the type of car they want.

[Avalanche404]

StephanieBengal wrote..

First
off, I appreciate you actually saying this with some substance or if
nothing else a decent reason for why you feel this way and decided to
write this -- if everyone else did I wouldn't have to comment the way I
do half of the time. 

That being said, it's easy for many people
to say this/feel this way because we aren't the ones running the
business and we don't have to worry about keeping the establishment a
float.

If you were Bioware/Developers, who put a lot of hours
into these things, can you honestly say that you'd be fine with giving
away things for free or without people paying a decent amount? No matter
the angle of the reason behind it, if I worked for a video game company
in whatever route -- I'm sorry but y'all are gonna have to shell out
cash to get things. I'm not gonna do things and not get paid for them,
unless you like being broke and lack common sense. 

I make something, I get paid, you want something I made? You pay for it. 

I
have no problem buying DLC that I find to be worth while and fair. I'll
be the first to say that I find weapon DLC to be a joke, because IMO
it's such a small difference in regards to playing the game, which is
why I rarely buy that type of DLC. 

Story DLC though? Different
view, again it's more about how much they put into. Ultimately though, I
will make my own choice if they get my money or not. Part of this is
the responsibility of us the gamers of when to buy and when not to buy.

Then
again we could look at the demographics and so forth. I'm nearly 30, a
parent, married, have a job, a house, my priorities lie there more than
anything. The game really isn't targeted towards me and that's perfectly
understandable. So DLC to me is so minor for me, if I don't get it or
simply can't afford it -- for me it's not important. 

If you're
tired and feed up (which seems to be the case) just don't buy it my
friend. I say that with no tone or to be a smartass. Bioware and EA are
gonna run the company and their games how they want, the few choices you
can make such as buying the game or the DLC then take your stand. Don't
buy it. 

But again, thanks for writing your outlook with substance, even though I don't ride for it. 

Thanks for your answer. I fully agree with the part about "I am not working for nothing", that's absolutely right, money are a necessary "evil" for everyone and I am not against this even if there are software houses that releases new contents for free (CDProject for example).
But there is a big differnece between a 20 minutes long mission sold for 15€ and a full-lenght expansion pack with many missions and new content for 30€ or more. I'd rather prefer spend 30-40€ for a complete expansion instead of spending even more than the original game in order to gather all addictional contents. For example, I think there is no way to compare all Mass Effect 2 DLCs put togheter to a single Neverwinter Nights expansion or with Baldur's Gate 2: Throne of Baahl. 

IsaacShep wrote...

Curunen wrote...

It seems a lot of the DLC tied to other products, cross promotions and so on, is basically fluff. Multiplayer items that might never be used, appearances and so on.

It is fluff when looked upon individually. But when you look at it as a whole? How many DLC guns for both SP & MP are there already? In a game that desperately needs more loot and which predecessor was criticized for little customization? If it's day 1 stuff, then I'm really questioning when someone says "it's not cut-out from the main game".

That's one of the points. The picture I've posted better explain the fact. It's obvious that I can simply avoid poor DLCs released long time after the game, but damn, why should they deny contents that were made before???

[Avalanche404]

GothDude wrote...
DLC is meant to extend the "full" game, adding more hours to it, as well adding more of a replay value. also it's meant to help stop the Used game market. the DLC is meant to make you wana keep the game instead of get rid of it!
also, Game Developers need a constant flow of revenue to keep the company doors open and employees payed.
I support DLC, for the simple reason that I love games. it's the only reason i have kept a lot of my games, waiting for DLC. and i fully support Bioware in their decision for DLC. wana complain about a incomplete game? go find a Bethesda forum.
good day sir

Bethesda is probably the one who started the DLCs market, but in Oblivion they sold the minor DLCs for something like 1 dollar, and then released them all with a single, massive compilation (Knights of the Nine), not to mention the fact that none of them was necessary for going on with the story-line.

I again underscore the real point of this discussion: DLC containing mission, characters and so on ready-to-be-sold BEFORE the game release.

[BiO]

The "secret" character and mission from the collector's edition is the worst thing BioWare has done, the way I see it (if you know what the character is and what he represents, you'd know what I mean).

Might as well include the Reapers as DLCs, no?

[Harbinger of your Destiny]

I wouldn't mind the dlc if we would be able to acquire all the preorder dlc (except for teh collector's edition and dlc you can get through buying a product ( like those action figures)) by buying it as a pack at a later date.

[Fugiz]

Bah what a waste. Until people stop buying said DLC it will always be there, getting more expensive as publishers test consumers limits to such things.

Story based DLC, no problem unless it costs 15 bucks or more (i.e Deus Ex: Missing Link or GoW3: Raams Shadow) its better in my opinion to get an arcade game with more replayability and length. Armor / Weapon packs no never again.

ME2 story DLC cost in total 2720pts >=35 bucks, (whilst an expansion would have been better, but lets face it, expansions like split screen co-op are dead, gone, history) which I found reasonable. As long as I dont pay 10 bucks for a 100kB download, DLC is alright.

Modifié par Fugiz, 09 février 2012 - 10:48 .

[Matt251287]

This has acquired many pages without my notice,
 
 
I just want to add my 100% support to the OP.
 
 
 
akso, interesting article in a similar vein:
kotaku.com/5853638/if-haruki-murakamis-new-book-were-sold-like-a-video-game
apologies if posted already.

Modifié par Matt251287, 09 février 2012 - 10:50 .

[Femlob]

Avalanche404 wrote...

I again underscore the real point of this discussion: DLC containing mission, characters and so on ready-to-be-sold BEFORE the game release.

I don't like it, either. But unless people vote with their wallets, this is the future.

[Wulfram]

My position is simple. If I can't get all substantive content available on release for £30, I'm not buying the game on release.

I will buy the game eventually, when the price has come down. I won't buy the DLC unless it's price also declined, which it seems it never does.

[Icinix]

Terror_K wrote...

TCBC_Freak wrote...

You know what I'm tired of? Having to pay extra for cheese on my hamburger. Darn you Burger King, why not include it, because we all know that cheese is needed to fully experience the burger in all its glory. And while we are at it, I'm sick of paying more for Coke than Dr. Pepper, when will these soda companies learn to price it all the same.... it's not like Dr. Pepper is easier to make than Coke.

That analogy falls flat on its face though, because what BioWare is doing is more akin to not even allowing you to add cheese to a single burger unless you buy two other large meals, or not allowing you to add cheese because of the car you drive or the place you live. If they would just let me pay to add the cheese on the hamburger it wouldn't be so much of an issue, but they won't... not unless I give them 10 times as much money as it costs by buying stuff I don't want, or because I'm not local and drive the type of car they want.

I like this analogy...

..I also like Burgers with Cheese - so I may be biased.

[Gibb_Shepard]

BiO_MaN wrote...

The "secret" character and mission from the collector's edition is the worst thing BioWare has done, the way I see it (if you know what the character is and what he represents, you'd know what I mean).

Might as well include the Reapers as DLCs, no?

I agree, its absolutely ridiculous.

Woo states how such content is "Optional" and "Not important" knowing full well that they put that character up because it IS integral to the game; something any ME fan wouldn't turn down. Who the hell wouldn't want him as a squadmate!? He will be more important and interesting than ANY other squadmate in ME3.

Its damn slimy.

[Femlob]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

BiO_MaN wrote...

The "secret" character and mission from the collector's edition is the worst thing BioWare has done, the way I see it (if you know what the character is and what he represents, you'd know what I mean).

Might as well include the Reapers as DLCs, no?

I agree, its absolutely ridiculous.

Woo states how such content is "Optional" and "Not important" knowing full well that they put that character up because it IS integral to the game; something any ME fan wouldn't turn down. Who the hell wouldn't want him as a squadmate!? He will be more important and interesting than ANY other squadmate in ME3.

Its damn slimy.

It's business. If you don't like it, vote with your wallet. It's the only thing they'll listen to.

[Someone With Mass]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

BiO_MaN wrote...

The "secret" character and mission from the collector's edition is the worst thing BioWare has done, the way I see it (if you know what the character is and what he represents, you'd know what I mean).

Might as well include the Reapers as DLCs, no?

I agree, its absolutely ridiculous.

Woo states how such content is "Optional" and "Not important" knowing full well that they put that character up because it IS integral to the game; something any ME fan wouldn't turn down. Who the hell wouldn't want him as a squadmate!? He will be more important and interesting than ANY other squadmate in ME3.

Its damn slimy.

Funny thing is that there are some people that don't like the thought of that character at all.

Not to mention that he has almost no connection with the advancing of the plot other than being what he is, which in itself isn't contributing much.

Hell, he pretty much establishes the fact that he isn't that important himself. He isn't important just because he is...you know what.

Not to mention that the CE people paid extra to get him and some other things. It's business. Want more, then you have to pay for more.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 09 février 2012 - 11:30 .

[TheRealJayDee]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Tell the "new audience" out there about what makes Mass Effect what it is.  If they're interested, they'll buy it.  Love it.  Tell their friends.  Sell the game, and they'll pick up all the goofy merchandise on their own.  Don't shove all the extras in their faces.

This!

[AngryFrozenWater]

This is a bit of history how small content was used a couple of years ago. It is an example of how things were done in EA's BF2. The game needed several patches and once in a while the user was rewarded for their patience by adding new content to the game. It was a kind of "sorry for the bugs, we fixed some of them, and here is some content to make up for that". It included new weapons, maps or a new MP mode. Later on it still required patches, but it was not economically viable to create those for free. So, instead of charging the user for patches, the company looked for sponsors. I remember a patch being sponsored by Intel (IIRC) and it had some extra content. There was also additional content for which you had to pay, but this was on top of the other content. BW went completely in the opposite direction. Not only are patches rare, they also charge for content which was similar in size and quality of DICE's free additional content intended to make up for the booboos. We are not talking about software created in the previous millennium. This was just a few years back. What we see now is that this old practice is completely forgotten and users don't even blink an eye for getting less patches and a bill for the additional content. It's even worse. The definitions have suddenly changed and a lot of fans defend the new greedy policy. Very odd.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 09 février 2012 - 11:52 .

[Glesson]

It's bad more and more companies adapted to the new standard of constant overpriced dlcs. I'm happy there are still companies like CD Project Red that release the extra content for free after release date. Maybe that's why I'll buy another copy for TW2 on xbox and wait a bit to see player's reaction for the upcoming ME3 dlcs before buying them.

[FDrage]

my primary issue with most DLC in when compared to an traditional x-pac is (set aside from the level of pricing / hour game play compared to and x-pac) is the length. If I'd play a DLC after, sometimes long after, I played a main game it will always feel and be short regardless of quality and that makes it to some degree out of place and disappointing.
if I use DLC as part of a "main playthrough" then any story based DLC usually feels like a really nice expansive side mission, but not months after the main game.

x-pac on the other side means a) waiting ages for it and probably having forgotten half of the original game. However it delivers a way better feel and length to it and therefore feels more coherent and a nice story.

I don't need and want DLC or x-pac for free, but I'm missing a nice solid x-pac compared to teh short sliced up story DLCs one gets nowadays.

When playing FO3 I bought the first 4 DLCs with it. I absolutly enjoyed Anchorage, but it was part of my main playthrough on its own after I 'd had finished that game it would have felt way too short and it would have spoilt the experience

Modifié par FDrage, 09 février 2012 - 12:25 .

[DragonRageGT]

Hey Mad Ice, BF 1942 had that too. Battle for Britain became one of the most popular maps, with exclusive servers for it and all, and it was all free with 1.5 or 1.6 patch. At least Dice did patched their game!

I wish they would only release DLC's after a game is patched and good but ME2 has issues and bugs that will be forever there but it sude did a lot of DLC's. I guess that if they could charge for the patches we might get a bug-free game but that ain't happening. Dice's BF 1942 was one exception to the whole EA patching record!

Now, I refuse to use any weapons and armors from DLC, even if I have them. It feels like cheating and there is no pleasure greater than beating ME2 on Insanity with all the original weapons and their upgrades included in the released vanilla version and armors from the game. Although my rejection for armors other than the N7 is because of the helmets and, of course,  custom colours and parts! =)

[Klimy]

From previous experience I had with Bioware small DLC (DA2, ME2) such as extra weapons/armor/outfits, I think we should not worry about it. Because in general they unbalance the game and in a way ruin the game experience (was no fun to have powerful armor and weapons in ME2 right from the start and then not care of what you can buy/loot during most of the game).

For me it is just annoying to hear about share amount of DLC that is bundled with all sort of things. I would suggest to go with usual BW staff advice - "dont like it - dont buy it", but in a way of "dont buy it and they will stop making it". Or you can just buy a copy for PC and you know...

So far BW heading to the dark side with its approach to DLC, and when they'll start to bundle story related DLC with other crap that can not be bought otherwise, or cut out portions of the main game into separate DLC then this will probably be their undoing, unless gamers will become too stupid and continue buying it none the less, but then all hope in humanity will be lost at that point.

But personally I think its already beyond all hopes, based on constantly growing amount of DLC, low quality of the final game in term of bugs and bad implementation (DA1->DA2, ME1->ME2), not caring about what they release (Deception novel) ... which somehow they plan to patch (WTF?!). So, guess we should take it easy and look how it will all end.

Allthough it is funny how everyone laughed at horse armor for Oblivion, but crazy about krogan armor in Mass Effect.

Modifié par Klimy, 09 février 2012 - 12:38 .

[corporal doody]

i have purchased every piece of dlc (and/or expansion) for ME1, ME2, and DA:O. When DLC is made for ME3...I WILL BE BUYING IT IN A HEARTBEAT. if i didnt want to spend..i wouldnt...no one is forcing me to. They arent doing that "buy dlc one day one and the file is 120kb (CAPCOM-style horsepucky)". if they do the.."free dlc with the purchase of new game"...i dont see a problem there either. I WOULD LOVE IT if they did a full on expansion for ME3...bout 6months or so after release..especially some co-op stuff to expand on the multiplayer...or maybe even monthly releases featuring missions and ME2 crew members...so people who dont like Jacob WONT HAVE TO spend points/money on the Jacob mission pack,,,,but those of us who want more ME will!!


DA2...nope...wont be buying any..got the CE and have only played 10hrs of the game.