730 réponses à ce sujet

[pnakasone]

I think that the DLC provides the bulk of the profit on games as you do not need to produce disks, manuals, boxes, ship them, and convince stories to give shelf space to them. If they did not make money on mass effect 2 they would not provide the money to make mass effect 3.

[Tony_Knightcrawler]

pnakasone wrote...

I think that the DLC provides the bulk of the profit on games as you do not need to produce disks, manuals, boxes, ship them, and convince stories to give shelf space to them. If they did not make money on mass effect 2 they would not provide the money to make mass effect 3.

Of course it's more profit for them, but there's the question of how far they should go to stay respectable. There does come a point when a product is disrespected so much it fails, ya know? And even ME2 by itself should have been a lot of profit. Everyone with that little 2 or other icons under their name by their avatar has contributed to BioWare by buying their games.

Modifié par Tony_Knightcrawler, 10 février 2012 - 04:48 .

[AlanC9]

staindgrey wrote...

I'm sorry, I don't want to come off as an elitist a-hole when saying this, but...

You're naive. You don't think the companies involved get together and plan a post-release DLC schedule before the game goes gold? You don't think they choose parts of the game to hold back on and continue working on after release?

All quite true.

Only... so what?

The plan is always to make enough content to fill up the main game and the DLC, whether day 1 or post-release. I don't see why it's very important how the DLC part of the plan gets filled -- either that box gets filled with whatever needs more time for them to shape up, or they have some content that was always earmarked for DLC. Either way, the DLC isn't making the game smaller, because the game was always going to be that size.

[Stanley Woo]

pnakasone wrote...

I think that the DLC provides the bulk of the profit on games as you do not need to produce disks, manuals, boxes, ship them, and convince stories to give shelf space to them. If they did not make money on mass effect 2 they would not provide the money to make mass effect 3.

Untrue. The main game is still the primary source of profit. Yes, DLC is cheaper to produce but there are also far fewer people buying it.

[AlanC9]

If DLC really did sell nearly as many copies as the main games, we'd probably end up with a model where the DLC subsidizes the main game. That's how it worked in my old industry.

[Tony_Knightcrawler]

Awe, Stan. You didn't like my list?

[echoness]

Totally agree.

[devSin]

Tony_Knightcrawler wrote...

Awe, Stan. You didn't like my list?

The one where you didn't list a single BioWare game, all of which had expansions before the console shift? That one, you mean?

Yeah, I'm betting he wasn't impressed. ;-)

[Sidney]

keldana wrote...

I want to have the FULL GAME. I want to have all weapons / armor / characters etc. available, which are made by Bioware.

I think this is the problem. You have the full game.

Put another way you buy a car with a radio, manual transmission and fabric seats. You have bought a full car. The fact that I buy the upmarket line that has a satellite radio, automatic and leather seats doesn't mean you don't still have a full car. It does mean I paid for additional features that you did not choose to pay for which is exactly what DLC asks a consumer to do.

[Homebound]

at the same time, dont rip out the cushions from the back seat and tell me the car's on sale.

[Sidney]

Hellbound555 wrote...

at the same time, dont rip out the cushions from the back seat and tell me the car's on sale.

that might be apt if the game was deficient in some way...you know incomplete. Basically if you could play all of the game and never miss the missing element the game is complete.  You could play all of SAO w/o Warden's Keep and never once think twice about it not being there other than you know it is. The game is a complete version w/o it. Ther are no missing seats.

[PicdiCr80]

Well considering I believe I've finally begun to understand my previous problem, all that worries me now is that DLC is sort of becoming a way to add new canon to the story, i.e a DLC might completely change the story in a twist and it's considered canon, yet it's not in the base game. That makes it hard for a lot of people without the DLC to follow the story and that's now my only gripe, adding story content that changings the base games' story content, such as adding new effects to the endings etc. And although I'm not saying that's a money making scheme, I'm just saying that it makes it difficult to follow the base game's story when you need to buy DLC to do so.

[Tony_Knightcrawler]

devSin wrote...

Tony_Knightcrawler wrote...

Awe, Stan. You didn't like my list?

The one where you didn't list a single BioWare game, all of which had expansions before the console shift? That one, you mean?

Yeah, I'm betting he wasn't impressed. ;-)

What does it matter who made what? I wasn't listing a select few examples, I was listing a variety of high-profile video games with expansions. Many of these games were completely innovative game-changers, not rush-jobs. The only BioWare games I can think of made before the console shift were Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate II. Their expansions each came after about 9 months; not a long time to wait for significantly more content than a DLC. I'd even say that all of the DLC for ME2 put together might be enough to count as one small expansion. Would I wait 9 months for that? Sure. BioWare was involved in NWN and NWN2, but there were a bunch of companies in that, so I don't think I should use those as examples.

The only expansion BioWare has made in recent memory was Awakening, which was actually quite good except for the fact its bugs were never fixed.

The question was about expansions they way they used to be done versus DLC right now. There were no other qualifiers. :-/

Modifié par Tony_Knightcrawler, 10 février 2012 - 03:40 .

[AlanC9]

PicdiCr80 wrote...

Well considering I believe I've finally begun to understand my previous problem, all that worries me now is that DLC is sort of becoming a way to add new canon to the story, i.e a DLC might completely change the story in a twist and it's considered canon, yet it's not in the base game. That makes it hard for a lot of people without the DLC to follow the story and that's now my only gripe, adding story content that changings the base games' story content, such as adding new effects to the endings etc. And although I'm not saying that's a money making scheme, I'm just saying that it makes it difficult to follow the base game's story when you need to buy DLC to do so.

You mean, like Arrival did?

[Wulfram]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Untrue. The main game is still the primary source of profit. Yes, DLC is cheaper to produce but there are also far fewer people buying it.

More people might buy it if it got reduced in price occasionally

/subtle hint

[NekOoNinja]

Wulfram wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Untrue. The main game is still the primary source of profit. Yes, DLC is cheaper to produce but there are also far fewer people buying it.

More people might buy it if it got reduced in price occasionally

/subtle hint

Which happens on XBL every so often as - 50% sales, and then that EA special a while ago...

So if it is too expensive for you, wait it out. That is how the market goes. If you don't play the XBOX version, well, now that ORIGIN is out, don't know how they'll handle this. But I suppose at some point it gets the -50% bat to promote another ME game.

Modifié par NekOoNinja, 10 février 2012 - 03:12 .

[Matt251287]

Avalanche404 wrote...

PPS: I think the following image is fully pertaining the matter.

I just think this needs to be quoted more.

[Matt251287]

Tony_Knightcrawler wrote...

Star Wars: X-Wing LucasArts 1993
Star Wars: X-Wing - Imperial Pursuit LucasArts 1993
Star Wars: X-Wing - B-Wing LucasArts 1993

Star Wars: TIE Fighter LucasArts 1994
Star Wars: TIE Fighter - Defender of the Empire LucasArts 1994 (This date wasn't on GameFAQs; I had to check my own box)
Star Wars: TIE Fighter - Collector's Edition (Including the new Enemies of the Empire, voice acting, etc.) LucasArts 1995

Star Wars: X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter LucasArts 04/30/97
X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter: Balance of Power LucasArts 11/30/97

Star Wars Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II LucasArts 09/30/97
Star Wars Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II & The Mysteries of the Sith (LucasArts classics) LucasArts 01/31/98

RollerCoaster Tycoon 2 Atari 10/15/02
RollerCoaster Tycoon 2: Wacky Worlds Atari 05/08/03
RollerCoaster Tycoon 2: Triple Thrill Pack Atari 08/01/03
RollerCoaster Tycoon 2: Time Twister Atari 10/22/03

Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness Blizzard Entertainment 11/30/95
Warcraft II: Beyond the Dark Portal Blizzard Entertainment 04/30/96

Starcraft Blizzard Entertainment 04/01/98
Starcraft: Brood War Blizzard Entertainment 11/30/98

Diablo II Blizzard Entertainment 06/29/00
Diablo II: Lord of Destruction Blizzard Entertainment 06/27/01

MechWarrior 2: 31st Century Combat Activision 06/30/95
MechWarrior 2: Ghost Bear's Legacy Activision 11/30/95
MechWarrior 2: NetMech Activision 96 US (Also not at GameFAQs; I had to check my own box.)
MechWarrior 2: Mercenaries Activision 09/30/96

MechWarrior 3 Atari 05/31/99
MechWarrior 3: Pirate's Moon Expansion Pack MicroProse 12/03/99

So uh... I guess expansions did come out pretty shortly after the original game. At the most, a year after. Usually only a few months, though (the normal wait for a DLC from BioWare). These expansions added roughly 33% (Imperial Pursuit) to 100% (Brood War) of the original games' length. That is not 33%-100% of the total content, but it is still a sizeable addition.

Nice,

Don't Forget
1995 – Command & Conquer
            1996 – Command & Conquer – The Covert Operations

1996 – Command & Conquer: Red Alert
             1997 – Command & Conquer: Red Alert – Counterstrike
             1997 – Command & Conquer: Red Alert – The Aftermath
             1998 – Command & Conquer: Red Alert – Retaliation

1999 – Command & Conquer: Tiberian Sun
              2000 – Command & Conquer: Tiberian Sun – Firestorm  (Epic expansion pack!)

2000 – Command & Conquer: Red Alert 2
              2001 – Command & Conquer: Yuri's Revenge

I'd post the rest but C&C was terminaly dead after this point.

Modifié par Matt251287, 10 février 2012 - 04:29 .

[OmegaBlue0231]

Sidney wrote...

Hellbound555 wrote...

at the same time, dont rip out the cushions from the back seat and tell me the car's on sale.

that might be apt if the game was deficient in some way...you know incomplete. Basically if you could play all of the game and never miss the missing element the game is complete.  You could play all of SAO w/o Warden's Keep and never once think twice about it not being there other than you know it is. The game is a complete version w/o it. Ther are no missing seats.

*claps*

[Darkfoxz87]

I agree 150%. I am fine with DLC but having this much before release date it getting ridiculous. DLC is a great way to expand on a game, giving it more to the story and gameplay, but enough is enough. Having this much before release is just stupid. If it is all ready there put it into the game. And make more better DLC not stuff that should of all ready put into the game. Mass Effect 2 had some great DLC, Kasumi, Broker, Overlord, Arrival. how long after release did we get the first? April 6TH 2010, 4 months after release date not 4 months before. The last? March 29TH 2011. 15 months after release. Thats how DLC should be, new stoires that add to the game, and are released over time, after the game is released, to add new and exciting content, to an all ready fantstic game. Heck I wonder how many of this "DLC" is just a code to unlock it. It is all ready in game just not avaliable to those who didnt pay extra. 
 
EA is really messing with Bioware and this terrific franchise. I know with without EA PS3 would of never got Mass Effect 2 and I would of never met this terrific game but they are really stretching all this DLC. I am not positive but I dont think Mass Effect 2 had ths much DLC through the whole time its been released compared to how much is there right now. I mean they're releasing it through figurines for damns sake. I know some people consider this an exta bouns if you were all ready going to buy the figures, but most of us see it as an insult since it is there why not just put it in the game?

If you want to convince people to buy the figures, make them worth buying, dont just use DLC (that should all ready in the game) to booster sales. Hell early access is fine by me. You get this weapon/ multiplayer map earlier for buying a Figurine. That is 100% fare in my eyes. But this, this is going way to far.

[Habs25]

Stop giving us DLC = Stop giving us more content for a game we enjoy to play
C'est quoi le problem???

[Weskerr]

AdmiralCheez wrote...
  Misguided or not, I feel like the marketing dudes think I'm stupid or something.

That's because all marketers work under the assumption that people are stupid and will buy anything. Consider the statement by H.L. Menken (b. 1880) who said ""No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public." I think this quote can be expanded to include everyone in a free market, not just Americans.

[CannonO]

No offense to Mr. Woo, but I don't feel he justified the mass amount of exclusive DLC pairing with all the non-game merchandise out there. He seems determined to make it sound like our brains are making a problem out of nothing, but the reality is, Mass Effect is first and foremost a game franchise. It is pretty dang obvious that all this DLC spreading around to costs of $300+ in addition to the game is going to anger the main fan base and be a disappointing route to getting all the ME3 that there is to experience. You can't honestly feel that it is just a problem because we want the DLC and if we just tell ourselves to judge it small and not want it anymore, things would be fine. We are fans. The whole "just don't buy it" thing is cruddy advice from the producers of the content trying to answer how their main customer base should just deal with this.

We don't want the $518 packages you are using as the only route to the DLC. We are your loyal customers and appreciated the far more reasonable and widely accessible routes to DLC. There is a very obvious problem with making content for a game franchise and stashing it all over the place with non-game merchandise.

Modifié par CannonLars, 10 février 2012 - 05:32 .

[Weskerr]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Also, noting is gained or learned when we all agree on something. it's only when we can talk out our disagreements that we can learn something new and, maybe, change our minds about things. Oh, and in case it's unclear, I work for a large corporation but I am still an advocate of consumer power, another reason I like these discussions.

Then I bet you're frustrated that "consumer power" is being wiped away with your corporation's Origin client. I also bet you're frustrated that consumer discussion of Origin on these forums is censored and squelched. Right?

Modifié par Weskerr, 10 février 2012 - 05:30 .