730 réponses à ce sujet

[Ice Cold J]

I don't like restraint. Not really my "thing."
Oh, you mean restraint as in "discipline."
Oh... excuse me.

[Il Divo]

littlezack wrote...

MadLaughter wrote...



But, Zaeed + his DLC gave you Paragon/Renegade points, a new heavy weapon, a bonus power (inferno grenade), and the second stongest option for "Holding the Line" in the Collector Base, adding quite a bit to the gameplay and your options in said game.
.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember Zaeed being a very poor choice for Holding the Line.

Zaeed is terrible as a squad leader, but as another poster pointed out he's one of the best for Holding the Line.

[littlezack]

Ah, yeah, that is right. Got them confused. Been a while. The first time I played, I tried to have him lead the squad and it turned out...poorly. Ever since then, I just have him escort the crew out.

[PD ORTA]

suprhomre wrote...

If you don't want any DLC it's easy don't preeorder and don't buy any DLC now or in the future. problem solved, BioWare shop closed and end of line.

I don't think most people are saying no DLC at all. Just that pre-order or just after release DLC should be included in the game anyway.
I'm not pre-ordering and i'm not gonna buy the inevitable squadmate appearence packs I don't think that's going to solve the problem.

[Relix28]

littlezack wrote...

Ah, yeah, that is right. Got them confused. Been a while. The first time I played, I tried to have him lead the squad and it turned out...poorly. Ever since then, I just have him escort the crew out.

It's best to send a squishy (but loyal) squadmate to escort the crew. Zaeed is best left to hold the line with the others.

[SMASHED_ASPHALT]

My opinion is if Bioware, or any company for that matter, has a game completed to the fullest of their intentions with all content they intended to be in there when the game has gone gold, then the game is complete. Then if they want to create more DLC for some fresh gameplay, so be it.
As we have all heard before, yes it is a business. Unless everyone wants to wait another 6 months or a year until they have completed everything Bioware wanted to add later in DLC, you are still going to pay for it one way or another. At least this way everyone can choose what DLC they want instead of having to pay another $20-30 up front.

[emeritus1]

Little, insignificant dlc such as outfits and weapons are fine and all, be they either day 1 or post launch dlc.
My issue comes with dlc such as extra characters and missions being dlc on day 1, to me all it does is cheapen the initial product as I immediately realise that I'm not getting a full experience (especially the dlc character this time around and the supposed from dust rumour mission)

I had no problems with the Cerberus network (zaeed) or the Dragon age: origins (shale) as they were great incentives to buy new, and stuff like weapon packs make neat preorder bonuses but pulling stuff from the game and selling it as EXTRA content really doesn't sit well with me.

Maybe the DLC I'm moaning about was an afterthought by the devs and wasn't initially in the game anyway, but none the less I do feel dirtied by the experience of this digital age.

How I long for a simpler time, Neverwinter nights, now that how extra content should be.

Anyway, sorry to rant.

[klxfx]

Bioware should bring out loads of DLC. Not only will it add length to my game (which I'm all for), but it will annoy all the whiney children here (which I'm also all for). Don't like it, don't buy it. Simple. As for preorder DLC, it's an incentive. If all of this extra content went into the main game, what can they offer to cause us to preorder? Hugs?

[Stanley Woo]

This is a reminder that discussion of software piracy is not permitted, as per Rule #7 of our posted Site Rules. Thank you.

[staindgrey]

AlanC9 wrote...

staindgrey wrote...

I'm sorry, I don't want to come off as an elitist a-hole when saying this, but...

You're naive. You don't think the companies involved get together and plan a post-release DLC schedule before the game goes gold? You don't think they choose parts of the game to hold back on and continue working on after release?

All quite true.

Only... so what?

The plan is always to make enough content to fill up the main game and the DLC, whether day 1 or post-release. I don't see why it's very important how the DLC part of the plan gets filled -- either that box gets filled with whatever needs more time for them to shape up, or they have some content that was always earmarked for DLC. Either way, the DLC isn't making the game smaller, because the game was always going to be that size.

I'll start by saying this: I'm not campaigning against DLC here. I'm not a self-entitled gamer that thinks I should get everything for $60 or the system is corrupt and I'll boycott, yada yada. I'm simply being real here; the guy I replied to with what you quoted was, as I said, naive. This is the new business model of videogame publishers, and the most loyal of fans feed their profits by willingly following it. It's all been made possible by constant online connections by most gamers.

Just look a decade ago, and we wouldn't need to buy new weapons and gear; we'd unlock them in the game we've already bought. On the other side, DLC could provide a way to release content that otherwise wouldn't have made it to the final game-- OR content that would have made it a decade ago is now intentionally withheld to sell later, figuring most people will want to buy it.

For instance, both Marvel vs. Capcom 3 and Blazblue: Continuum Shift withheld actual fighters from the disc release, then offered download codes shortly after release so that anybody who was taking the game seriously would basically be forced to purchase said character so that he/she could learn the character. In pre-DLC days, the character would either be a) put on the disc to begin with, or scrapped way beforehand. Having a character 99% complete on the disc just to be unlocked via a patch later wouldn't be an option.

Same goes for other on-disc DLC, such as Resident Evil 5's Versus mode. Is it essential to the primary experience? No. But it's entirely on the disc. The only way you can play it is by paying for a $5, 80kb patch. Is that right? Technically, no, if we're speaking morally. But it's Capcom's product, and they can do as they see fit. We have the option of either buying it or not. I bought it because I loved RE5. I still feel I should have gotten it with my original $60 purchase, but that doesn't mean anything since I paid for it anyway.

Where games like Bioware's get tricky is what we deem "essential to the experience". Is Kasumi essential to Shepard's story? Well, not really... But it's a character-based narrative; that's the main appeal of the game. If someone can't get access to it because it's DLC, is that shorting the customer? What about Arrival, which holds a rather large plot point for ME3? Would we deem that essential?

Regardless, I'm not of the same viewpoint as the OP. I realize the benefits of DLC and, for games I truly enjoy, embrace it more or less. But I see the dangers of it, and dislike some companies' pracitices exploiting it, Capcom being the worst offender. Also when people lose their internet connection, it's a problem. Or when I want to play something requiring DLC and my friend doesn't want to pay for it, that's a problem. DLC creates a lot of issues and a lot of benefits. I like to see it from both angles.

I actually wrote an entire blog post on DLC, in case anybody would actually feel like reading it: http://staindgrey.bl...redibility.html 

[Ice Cold J]

littlezack wrote...

Ah, yeah, that is right. Got them confused. Been a while. The first time I played, I tried to have him lead the squad and it turned out...poorly. Ever since then, I just have him escort the crew out.

I agree. I figured the whole "years of combat experience" and "Vido ran the books, I led the men," kinda implied to me that he'd be a capable squad leader. But, in the end, I figured the game hinted me towards Miranda leading the team, so I let her do her thing.

Zaeed helped me put the baby Reaper to bed.

OK, back on topic:

The main issue I see with ME DLC is that they set an uneasy precendent of it when Zaeed, Kasumi, and Lair of the Shadow Broker files were found on the original game disc. This implied that they were originally intended to be included with the game at launch.
Why they were not was either never explained or not to the satisfaction of the fanbase, who cried "conspiracy" over the whole incident.
I'm not here to judge THAT incident one way or the other. I will say that it seemed to set an poor precedent and cast EA/Bioware in an unfavorable light. By extension, this is now being applied to most DLC, as much of it doesn't seem to measure up to the old expansion packs in the heyday of videogames. Befoe they were the multimillion dollar industry they are now.
Some companies are earnest with their fans, some are not. I tend to give Bioware a pass and the benefit of the doubt in this regard because, in my eyes, they have consistently delivered quality products. EA... I will not voice my opinion on them here.

[THEE_DEATHMASTER]

Pretty stupid that you can pay $80 and still don't get the COMPLETE game.

Modifié par THEE_DEATHMASTER, 10 février 2012 - 10:50 .

[CannonO]

klxfx wrote...

Bioware should bring out loads of DLC. Not only will it add length to my game (which I'm all for), but it will annoy all the whiney children here (which I'm also all for). Don't like it, don't buy it. Simple. As for preorder DLC, it's an incentive. If all of this extra content went into the main game, what can they offer to cause us to preorder? Hugs?

What the heck? No one said they don't want loads of DLC. They don't want loads of DLC that you can only access through action figures, books, accsssories, and retailer merchandise exclusive deals... all at one time for one game.

Why wouldn't you preorder anyways? Don't you just want to guarantee yourself a copy? I preordered ME1 without a need for in-game content. Same with a lot of games, really.

This can all be solved if they just announce that this can be purchased eventually if you don't manage to get it all through the $300+ spectrum of merchandise you need in order to access all DLC.

[super4star]

I don't know. Mass effect 2 in my opinion was a complet experience. I bought normal edition, and I got even free dlc with cerberus network.

With Mass effect 3 I am starting to be a bit confused. Dlc for art of mass effect universe, figures, day1 dlc for 10$. I hope they will not star adding dlc to bigmac in macdonald lol.

I remember interview with John Riccitiello EA's CEO E3 2011. It was about mass effect deserve to sale much better. (Hell yes it deserves )

After seeing that interview I was curios what EA gone do to improve sales figures.

They should target new audience, not ripping off people who alredy played mass 1 and 2.

I know that bioware and caseys team is making the game, not publishing.

I am absolutely sure that all dlc staff is EA job.

Please EA. Be more creative.

Don't get me wrong. I love mass effect games. From what I have seen so far Mass Effect 3 gone be game of the year contender. I just don't like that all DLC staff.

[Sidney]

PD ORTA wrote...
I don't think most people are saying no DLC at all. Just that pre-order or just after release DLC should be included in the game anyway.
I'm not pre-ordering and i'm not gonna buy the inevitable squadmate appearence packs I don't think that's going to solve the problem.

At lot of the appearance packs and miscellaneous weapons packs are worthless so who cares. They're like the lottery - a tax on stupid people.

As for the pre-order stuff it makes perfect sense for Bioware or any other dev to do that. Why? They make money off the first sale so they want to encourage that.  I hate the used game section because I know I'm paying the retailer who is basically zero value add to a product while the creative elements get zero from it. I like to reward the filmmakers, muscians and game devs who make the things I enjoy. Sadly too many people don't see it that way so this is a way for them to incentivize you to buy new.

[Sidney]

THEE_DEATHMASTER wrote...

Pretty stupid that you can pay $80 and still don't get the COMPLETE game.

The game is complete. If they sold you a game w/o an ending then it is incomplete. All DLC characters and quests do is extend the game in the same way dessert extends a meal. Your dinner is complete without desert. Dessert is an add on.

[tobynator89]

I'll buy DLC. Love it.

[Ice Cold J]

Imperium Alpha wrote...

Nooo ! I want a **** load of multiplayer dlc. I've got thousand of dollar to spend on this game!

I've bought a LOT of videogames. Of those I have that also have DLC, I've bought maybe 5 of the 15-20.

You can enjoy a game without all the bells and whistles of all the DLC.

CannonLars wrote...

klxfx wrote...

Bioware should bring out loads of DLC. Not only will it add length to my game (which I'm all for), but it will annoy all the whiney children here (which I'm also all for). Don't like it, don't buy it. Simple. As for preorder DLC, it's an incentive. If all of this extra content went into the main game, what can they offer to cause us to preorder? Hugs?

What the heck? No one said they don't want loads of DLC. They don't want loads of DLC that you can only access through action figures, books, accsssories, and retailer merchandise exclusive deals... all at one time for one game.

Why wouldn't you preorder anyways? Don't you just want to guarantee yourself a copy? I preordered ME1 without a need for in-game content. Same with a lot of games, really.

This can all be solved if they just announce that this can be purchased eventually if you don't manage to get it all through the $300+ spectrum of merchandise you need in order to access all DLC.

1. I agree.
2. I agree.
3. I agree, but it doesn't make sense for the creators. If they can get you to buy more, why would they let on that what you REALLY want will be available later at a reduced price?
Sometimes that works out (Terminus Armor, Singularity Projector, Incisor Rifle), sometimes it doesn't (Blood Dragon Armor, Collector Rifle and Armor). But that's the risk one takes.

super4star wrote...
With Mass effect 3 I am starting to be a bit confused. Dlc for art of mass effect universe, figures, day1 dlc for 10$. I hope they will not star adding dlc to bigmac in macdonald lol.

The Big Mac is the Collector's Edition. The McDouble is the standard. The special sauce, lettuce, and seasame seeds are the DLC you'd pay extra for.

Sidney wrote...

THEE_DEATHMASTER wrote...

Pretty stupid that you can pay $80 and still don't get the COMPLETE game.

The game is complete. If they sold you a game w/o an ending then it is incomplete. All DLC characters and quests do is extend the game in the same way dessert extends a meal. Your dinner is complete without desert. Dessert is an add on.

This.

If you got to the last mission and got a screen saying, "Final Mission now available at the XBOX LIVE Marketplace," THAT would be incomplete.
To modify Sidney's analogy, Dinner = main course + side dish. Extra sidedish doesn't mean that the original meal wasn't complete; you just got an extended/bigger meal for a little more money.

Modifié par Ice Cold J, 11 février 2012 - 12:41 .

[Tony_Knightcrawler]

Matt251287 wrote...
Nice,

Don't Forget
1995 – Command & Conquer
            1996 – Command & Conquer – The Covert Operations

1996 – Command & Conquer: Red Alert
             1997 – Command & Conquer: Red Alert – Counterstrike
             1997 – Command & Conquer: Red Alert – The Aftermath
             1998 – Command & Conquer: Red Alert – Retaliation

1999 – Command & Conquer: Tiberian Sun
              2000 – Command & Conquer: Tiberian Sun – Firestorm  (Epic expansion pack!)

2000 – Command & Conquer: Red Alert 2
              2001 – Command & Conquer: Yuri's Revenge

I'd post the rest but C&C was terminaly dead after this point.

Oh yeah, good additions. 

[Sleek]

No other game company abuses dlc like EA/Bioware. Its shameless and petty . They know it , we know it. EA dangles content in the costomers face . The worst case i have ever expierenced was with Dead Space 2 . I got the collectors edition for 80 bucks and when i got home EA announced dlc for Dead Space 2 NOT available for PC.

[CannonO]

Sleek wrote...

No other game company abuses dlc like EA/Bioware. Its shameless and petty . They know it , we know it. EA dangles content in the costomers face . The worst case i have ever expierenced was with Dead Space 2 . I got the collectors edition for 80 bucks and when i got home EA announced dlc for Dead Space 2 NOT available for PC.

One had hoped they had learned from the heat DLC can cause back with Battlefield 3 preorder exclusives. <_<

[AlanC9]

staindgrey wrote...
Just look a decade ago, and we wouldn't need to buy new weapons and gear; we'd unlock them in the game we've already bought. On the other side, DLC could provide a way to release content that otherwise wouldn't have made it to the final game-- OR content that would have made it a decade ago is now intentionally withheld to sell later, figuring most people will want to buy it.

The problem is, we don't know and can't know what ME3 would have looked like without DLC. In this universe there never was an ME3 plan that didn't include DLC. I'm sure there are parallel universes where DLC was never invented. I don't see how a universe without that revenue stream ends up with the same amount of ME3 content that this universe has, but it's not possible to discuss this rationally since we can't get any data from those universes.