730 réponses à ce sujet

[izmirtheastarach]

Gatt9 wrote...

It should bother you because now,  especially with EA,  it was something on the disc you paid for that was intentionally held hostage to force you to pay extra money to get the whole game.

Dead Space 2:  In the retail game,  there's a number of doors locked along your path,  behind these doors are upgrade items and armor.  They only way to open those doors is if you bought a DLC prior to release.  A DLC that wasn't even offered on the PC,  so you could never open those doors on the PC and get all of the content you had paid for.

DLC as an addition to a game,  like Dead Rising 2's epilogue (Or even Lair of the Shadowbroker),  is understandable.  It's a modern expansion pack.  But EA blatantly holds content hostage,  or cuts content out and releases it as DLC in an attempt to generate more revenue,  making you pay more for the same thing you would've gotten for your money years ago.

DLC designed to force the player to pay extra for what should've been (And often already is) on the disc isn't acceptable.

I think it's really up to me whether it SHOULD bother me. At least the Dead Space 2 argument is an argument. But it still doesn't invalidate what I just said. Obviously those DLC options were designed as DLC. But that's really a moot argument. Some people are going to insist of looking at it the other way, and I will insist on disagreeing with them.

But really the only important thing, in terms of my own enjoyment is whether the game delivered as a stand-alone experience. I played Dead Space 2 on the PC. I enjoyed it a lot. Nothing about it felt unfinished, I was in fact completely unaware of the fact that there even was DLC like you describe, until I saw it being mentioned in DLC arguments on the BSN.

Whether it was on the disc or not, not having had no impact whatsoever on my enjoyment of the game.

[Kileyan]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

After I've put hundreds of hours into a game like Oblivion, if the next time I launched the game a pop-up came up and said "hey, we see you're really enjoying our game, would you like to give us 5 dollars?", I would have no trouble paying that.

In the case of DLC, I even get something for my money. Something that may vary in it's own value, but why should that bother me? I consider DLC to be another way of supporting a developer I appreciate. If I don't care much for the game, I won't care much for the DLC.

I don't know how to put this but I'll try. If it was a matter of an awesome expansion pack PLUS all this DLC, I wouldn't even be in this thread. I'm not against all these mini adventure and item DLC packs, they are profitable and easy to distribute. I want Bioware to make money and make games.

My complaint is expansion packs are gone, and the DLC they are replaced by, even if it is all add together after the games DLC cycle is over, all that doesn't add up to nearly the playtime and content of single expansion packs of old. Not to mention all that DLC might add up to 90 bucks for a grand total of 1/4 of the play hours. Sadly that last bit pretty much sums up why no more expansion packs. DLC is much more profitable for less content in the end(less work).

I suppose todays expansion packs are the yearly full priced sequel release model that some companies are striving for.

[OmegaBlue0231]

IsaacShep wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Why is this a problem?

The problem is if it gets cut from the main game. It doesn't matter if it's on the disc or downloaded via code. If it's Day 1 DLC, then there's little doubt at least part of it would've been in the main game if it was still, let's say, 2001.

Or it wouldn't have been in the game at all.

[XX55XX]

Well, it depends.

If the DLC adds something that should have been in the game to begin with (like Lair of the Shadow Broker), then no, they shouldn't bother. Small things like weapons and armor are fine, since you don't necessarily have to buy them to get a richer experience.

If they are so intent on keeping used games out, then why don't they make the game download-only? Would solve everyone's problems concerning DLC. 

[Alex Arterius]

Just showing my support for this thread.

I mean just look at all this. http://www.mcvuk.com...unveiled/090939

Did you guys see that link? There's even DLC with that

PLEASE ENOUGH WITH THE TACKED ON DLC THAT'S HERE THERE AND EVERYWHERE BIOWARE

Thanks

Love Alex

xxx

[Il Divo]

Kileyan wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

After I've put hundreds of hours into a game like Oblivion, if the next time I launched the game a pop-up came up and said "hey, we see you're really enjoying our game, would you like to give us 5 dollars?", I would have no trouble paying that.

In the case of DLC, I even get something for my money. Something that may vary in it's own value, but why should that bother me? I consider DLC to be another way of supporting a developer I appreciate. If I don't care much for the game, I won't care much for the DLC.

I don't know how to put this but I'll try. If it was a matter of an awesome expansion pack PLUS all this DLC, I wouldn't even be in this thread. I'm not against all these mini adventure and item DLC packs, they are profitable and easy to distribute. I want Bioware to make money and make games.

My complaint is expansion packs are gone, and the DLC they are replaced by, even if it is all add together after the games DLC cycle is over, all that doesn't add up to nearly the playtime and content of single expansion packs of old. Not to mention all that DLC might add up to 90 bucks for a grand total of 1/4 of the play hours. Sadly that last bit pretty much sums up why no more expansion packs. DLC is much more profitable for less content in the end(less work).

I suppose todays expansion packs are the yearly full priced sequel release model that some companies are striving for.

Admittedly, I miss the Expansion Pack Model. We need more in the style of WCIII: The Frozen Throne. Probably my favorite expansion of all time.

[izmirtheastarach]

IsaacShep wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Why is this a problem?

The problem is if it gets cut from the main game. It doesn't matter if it's on the disc or downloaded via code. If it's Day 1 DLC, then there's little doubt at least part of it would've been in the main game if it was still, let's say, 2001.

It's also just as likely that in 2001 the content you are talking about would never have existed. In DAO, Shale would have been left on the cutting room floor, and we would never have seen her. Or in DA2, The Prince DLC would not have been developed at all.

Especially in the case of Bioware, day-1 DLC is being used as a measure to stop piracy and used game sales. If you are buying a new copy, then you aren't really losing anything.

[Adugan]

LOTSB and Arrival should not have been DLC. Arrival is necessary to understand the plot. LOTSB is too, to a slightly lesser extent. Firepower and all those things are good DLC though.

[shepskisaac]

OmegaBlue0231 wrote...

Or it wouldn't have been in the game at all.

That is a common argument, and I think that yes, part of it probably wouldn't have existed. But other part would've, in the main game. It's not like all these developers simply LOVE to give players smaller arsenal/less items in the main game, esp. BioWare

izmirtheastarach wrote...

It's also just as likely that in 2001 the content you are talking about would never have existed. In DAO, Shale would have been left on the cutting room floor, and we would never have seen her. Or in DA2, The Prince DLC would not have been developed at all.

Especially in the case of Bioware, day-1 DLC is being used as a measure to stop piracy and used game sales. If you are buying a new copy, then you aren't really losing anything.

Or, ohh IDK, maybe the cut content would've made it into the major expansion? Devs were doing it all the time, they're STILL doing it. Mac Walters said himself some of their cut Citadel stuff from ME2 got a second chance in ME3.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 09 février 2012 - 01:01 .

[izmirtheastarach]

Kileyan wrote...

I don't know how to put this but I'll try. If it was a matter of an awesome expansion pack PLUS all this DLC, I wouldn't even be in this thread. I'm not against all these mini adventure and item DLC packs, they are profitable and easy to distribute. I want Bioware to make money and make games.

My complaint is expansion packs are gone, and the DLC they are replaced by, even if it is all add together after the games DLC cycle is over, all that doesn't add up to nearly the playtime and content of single expansion packs of old. Not to mention all that DLC might add up to 90 bucks for a grand total of 1/4 of the play hours. Sadly that last bit pretty much sums up why no more expansion packs. DLC is much more profitable for less content in the end(less work).

I suppose todays expansion packs are the yearly full priced sequel release model that some companies are striving for.

See, this I understand. You aren't saying DLC is evil, just that the way it's affecting the market has led to something you enjoy going away. That makes total sense to me. I certainly prefer a legit expansion to a single mission DLC.

[Pattonesque]

Avalanche404 wrote...

The abuse of DLCs has become a frustrating matter.
Before being tagged as a "hater", let me say that I am a long-term fan of Bioware and I've played almost any of their games, from Baldur's Gate to Dragon Age 2, passing through Neverwinter Nights, Knights of the Old Republic, Jade Empire, Mass effect, and any episode of those series.

But I have grown tired of Bioware (and probably EA) policy about the quantity and quality of downloadable contents.
First of all, there is an unequal balance between the price of DLCs and the quantity and quality of their content, as most of them are skin or weapon packages and 10-minutes-long quests. Talking about additional quests: I think is unfair to expand the story through many single missions, "forcing" fans to spend even more money than the original game, in order to know how the plot continue through a bunch of short missions. This brings to the second point: is quite offensive to make and announce DLCs before the release of a game, because is like to say "hey, we are selling you an incomplete product, if you want it all you must spend more".
Last but not least: please, stop producing gameplay-ruining DLCs, like over-powered weapons and armors. Sure, there is no reason to buy them if I don't want to, but what if I am a collector and I like to buy limited edition? Am I forced to have a lot of addictional contents which gave me enough power to finish the game without changing equipment? Is like cheating! And again, someone could say "no one force you to use them", but hell, I have spent a lot for a collector's edition and those money cover also that, why I shouldn't use what I've paid for?

This is an invitation to all Bioware fans to tell your opinion, and let's gather Bioware attention, hoping in a future change of plans. I know that DLCs = easy money, but at least stop selling cheap cheats and splitting the plot in pieces.



Without regret but with hope of will have been understood,
a Bioware fan that have just preordered Mass Effect 3 limited edition (as I have made with Mass Effect 2, Dragon Age: Origins, and Dragon Age 2*).






PS: forgive me for my lack of english.
*: sorry but I must say it: worst-limited-edition-ever, expecially compared to DA:O.

Dear Bioware,

Please abandon a successful business model and make less money so I can feel better about myself. I could have put my energy towards actual causes that would have lasting effects in the real world, but instead, I spend my time typing missives about how angry I am that I have to pay $10 for a mission in a video game.

Love,

ONE OF THE TRUE FANS

[Bleachrude]

IsaacShep wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Why is this a problem?

The problem is if it gets cut from the main game. It doesn't matter if it's on the disc or downloaded via code. If it's Day 1 DLC, then there's little doubt at least part of it would've been in the main game if it was still, let's say, 2001.

Ironically, I don't think any of ME2 storyline DLC were this as your companions are freaking silent as a church mouse in these things...if this was cut content from the game, there would've been dialogue already recorded...

EDIT: I honestly miss the expansion pack but I don't see those coming back since a smaller, but STEADY stream of income, and one where the producers get a much higher percentage of the income of that than the main game, to companies is way more attractive than the one-shot expansion pack...

Modifié par Bleachrude, 09 février 2012 - 01:04 .

[izmirtheastarach]

Adugan wrote...

LOTSB and Arrival should not have been DLC. Arrival is necessary to understand the plot. LOTSB is too, to a slightly lesser extent. Firepower and all those things are good DLC though.

Well that stuff could never have been in the game, because it wasn't made when it was released. Are you saying they should have provided it for free? Because LotSB is the best piece of DLC I've ever played, and I have no problem with what I payed for it.

[Kileyan]

[quote]IsaacShep wrote...

 [/quote]Even if the missions are only 1-hour expansions, the time & resources spent on creating it are obviously MUCH more appopirate to their the price (usually between 5-10 dollars) compared to a freaking gun or an outfit that publishers charge $2 or even $3 already (Gears of War 3) which took very little time & resources to create.


[/quote]

Believe me, I understand. I am not agains the mini adventures, I even enjoyed some of them. I am opposed to the mini adventures totally replacing the lengthy expansions that I like a lot more:) It is a matter of personal taste. These mini adventures are just too short. About the time I settle into my chair, start enjoying a new character or a new location, the game is over! It is like reading an amazing short story and wishing the author would revisit that world he created again, the mini adventures feel like samples.

[izmirtheastarach]

Pattonesque wrote...

Dear Bioware,

Please abandon a successful business model and make less money so I can feel better about myself. I could have put my energy towards actual causes that would have lasting effects in the real world, but instead, I spend my time typing missives about how angry I am that I have to pay $10 for a mission in a video game.

Love,

ONE OF THE TRUE FANS

I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

[xsdob]

For god's sakes, can't you people go one day without whining about DLC content, it's completly voluntary, if you don't want or, or if you don't want to use it, than don't.

As far as I'm concerned, the DLC is great if it increases the fun you can have while playing the game, their enhancements meant to reward people who gave some extra money to support the company.

Hell, my favorite weapons and armor from mass effect 2 came from the DLC's, The M-5 Phalanx pistol, the Mattock Heavy Rifle, The Geth Plasma Shotgun, Arc Projector, and the M-12 Locust sub machine gun were what I used during my play through, and the Inferno armor was really cool. But non of these things, as you and every other whiner put it, "Broke the Game", it was still hard, challenging, and fun to play, which is the most important part of any game.

If you hate the DLC so much, than you can take your own advice and not use the extra content, stick to your principals instead of trying to have it both ways, because if the game didn't have these dlc's, than we'd probably never see these types of bonus material ever.

DLC content is simply the equivalent of film trimmings, their the shots and scenes that get left on the editing floor to make room for the more vital content of the product. They eventually put those lost pieces of film on the home release of these entertainment products, in the form of directors cuts, or special editions, and often charge much more than their actually worth. So, with DLC at least you get to pick and choose what extras you get, instead of getting charge 25 more dollars for a few more commentaries and a bunch of unpolished, irrelevant crap.

[CerberusSoldier]

I stand behind EA and it making and selling DLC I hope they do more for ME 3 than they did for 2

[Inutaisho7996]

I think I'll just put this here.

Modifié par Inutaisho7996, 09 février 2012 - 01:06 .

[RyuGuitarFreak]

Tell that to EA, they're the ones in charge of this DLC crap.

Modifié par RyuGuitarFreak, 09 février 2012 - 01:06 .

[AdmiralCheez]

sackyhack wrote...

The problem's with EA I think. The pre-release promotional dlc is always awful for Bioware games, with the way it's scattered everywhere. But their post-release DLC has always been god-tier. The only other company that's even in the same league is Bethesda. That's just a sign of an overzealous marketing department.

Yeah, Overlord, Shadow Broker, and Stolen Memories were all excellent, and none of them were essential to the plot--they were their own isolated mini-stories.  I have no problem with stuff like that since they're made and released after the game's finished (like expansion packs, but smaller).  I also have no problem with goofy swag available through promotions or seperate purchase, since that two bucks would otherwise go towards a king size candy bar or something else I really don't need but want anyway.  Stuff like that--stuff that comes out long after the game's been released--is a nice treat to the players.  QUALITY DLC shows one hell of a devoted dev team.

So Mattocks and Shadow Brokers and goofy-looking shades for Thane?  Okay, awsome, why not?

My problem is that EVERYTHING has exclusive DLC now.  It's moved beyond a cool bonus that makes the game more fun--now it's obnoxious and gimmicky.  I also have a problem with day one DLC because, seriously, that stuff should go in the god damn game.  There is no point in NOT including it in the vanilla edition other than to nickel and dime your consumer base.

"Bonus" content left and right before the damn game's even out?  Pathetic.

And that's my opinion on that.

[LiZaRdChaSE]

I agree to some extent. Bioware and EA are in the business to entertain and deliver immersing products, which they do a good job of.
But I also agree that DLC in the recent past has for myself been hit or miss.
I really like project overlord, but though that Arrival was needed for main story, which made me sad when I played it because I thought it was missing the production value I associate with Bioware and its other titles.


ALSO...since they are in the 
 business to entertain and deliver immersing products, that should be key in overal prodouction of all things they do DLC and otherwise.

Modifié par LiZaRdChaSE, 09 février 2012 - 01:09 .

[essarr71]

Kileyan wrote...

I don't know how to put this but I'll try. If it was a matter of an awesome expansion pack PLUS all this DLC, I wouldn't even be in this thread. I'm not against all these mini adventure and item DLC packs, they are profitable and easy to distribute. I want Bioware to make money and make games.

My complaint is expansion packs are gone, and the DLC they are replaced by, even if it is all add together after the games DLC cycle is over, all that doesn't add up to nearly the playtime and content of single expansion packs of old. Not to mention all that DLC might add up to 90 bucks for a grand total of 1/4 of the play hours. Sadly that last bit pretty much sums up why no more expansion packs. DLC is much more profitable for less content in the end(less work).

I suppose todays expansion packs are the yearly full priced sequel release model that some companies are striving for.

Yeup.  Expansion packs will never come back.  A slow steady bleed with dlc that requires no physical production is much more attractive to a buisiness.  I'd even go so far to say physical copies of games might be gone in our lifetime.

But, the responsibility, and trends of any business always fall on a consumer.  It's easy to say these DLC are being "forced down our throats" but the simple truth is they aren't.  People complain that it wasn't always like this and companies could do it better.. but their responsibility is to maximize as much money they make as possible.. it always will be.  They will push the limit as far as they can.  The reason why we have the dlc is the same reason why the quality of games and systems continue to increase: it's cost-effective.

If you don't approve of whats for sale, don't buy it.  You win.  So long as you complain about a purchase - while handing over your cash - these companies will just keep it up.  And if the majority of people feel the purchase is worth it, the system won't change.

Do I wish all this stuff was free?  Sure.  But I also have enough self-control to consider before I buy.  If the product is worth it, I'll buy it.  If not, I have nothing to complain about.  It's not like they charge you to not have it.

[izmirtheastarach]

Having timed exclusives makes sense. Permanent exclusives don't.

[Malanek]

Some DLC is good. I liked Overlord, LotSB, Arrival, 2/3ds of the firepower pack, DA2 story dlc. Other dlc isn't my thing like appearance packs or all the DAO dlc which was just rubbish. The only thing I think is actually harmful are item packs which are unbalanced. DA (O and 2) is notorius for that and creates real problems for the devs. The Mattock and Stasis were overpowered but luckily this was late enough for the devs to just ignore and not try and balance the game for players using them.