730 réponses à ce sujet

[A Great Biotic Wind]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Homey C-Dawg wrote...

 This excessive DLC trend is so annoying. I hope people get tired of paying $100+ for their video games soon so publishers stop with the nickle-and-diming and get back to a more honest business model.

That's the thing, though, Homey C-Dawg. As you yourself admit in the very next paragraph, "there are a lot of rabid video gamers out there these days" that like this kind of thing and will pay for it. Sure, you can disagree with it and not like it, but you can't tell me that you are authorized to tell other people how to play their game or what to buy or not buy? Or that your preferred way of gamingis somehow objectively better or superior to the way someone else plays the game?

Unfortunately there are a lot of rabid video gamers out there these days who will take it in the behind and ask for more, because VG's are like crack for them. That's the only way it could have gotten this excessive to begin with.

And there is absolutely nothing wrong with ignoring all DLC and just playing the base game that comes out of the box. While developers and publishers do like DLC, they can't and don't count on everyone choosing to buy it so the base game still has to be seen to be of value and worth the purchase price.

As much as you might want all the extras, I think that as long as the game out of the box is still significant and can be taken in and of itself, we as a gaming populace are still in a good place. Absent all DLC, if a game gives you a good play experience, has an ending to the story presented in the game, and leaves you satisfied, it should still be considered a decent game. Then, if you really want more out of your game, there's replays or, if you want to spend the money, bonus/extra DLC available to continue or enhance the experience.

that's one way to look at it.

But why sell 10$ DLC a whole month before the game's released?


What's bugging me is if you have so much conent that you can't fit on the disc (that ends up becoming DLC), why can't you just release it for free? Seeing how it's already created, and what not.

Modifié par A Great Biotic Wind, 09 février 2012 - 01:45 .

[TexasToast712]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Homey C-Dawg wrote...

 This excessive DLC trend is so annoying. I hope people get tired of paying $100+ for their video games soon so publishers stop with the nickle-and-diming and get back to a more honest business model.

That's the thing, though, Homey C-Dawg. As you yourself admit in the very next paragraph, "there are a lot of rabid video gamers out there these days" that like this kind of thing and will pay for it. Sure, you can disagree with it and not like it, but you can't tell me that you are authorized to tell other people how to play their game or what to buy or not buy? Or that your preferred way of gamingis somehow objectively better or superior to the way someone else plays the game?

Unfortunately there are a lot of rabid video gamers out there these days who will take it in the behind and ask for more, because VG's are like crack for them. That's the only way it could have gotten this excessive to begin with.

And there is absolutely nothing wrong with ignoring all DLC and just playing the base game that comes out of the box. While developers and publishers do like DLC, they can't and don't count on everyone choosing to buy it so the base game still has to be seen to be of value and worth the purchase price.

As much as you might want all the extras, I think that as long as the game out of the box is still significant and can be taken in and of itself, we as a gaming populace are still in a good place. Absent all DLC, if a game gives you a good play experience, has an ending to the story presented in the game, and leaves you satisfied, it should still be considered a decent game. Then, if you really want more out of your game, there's replays or, if you want to spend the money, bonus/extra DLC available to continue or enhance the experience.

that's one way to look at it.

Care to shed any light or hint at what the DLC for the action figures and Xbox vault might be? I already want to get the vault but if the dlc for the action figures isn't cool then I probably won't get them.

[AdmiralCheez]

Stanley Woo wrote...

You know what they call bonus content that's already in the main game? "The main game." To be a "bonus" it has be demonstrably separate from the main game. It has to be an add-on to something that is already a whole thing.

If it's "in the god damn game," it's just content, and to call it a bonus then would just anger more people because the bonus is already in the game! I don't think you can complain about "bonus DLC should be in the game" in one breath and suggest "make the bonus more invisible but still call it a bonus" in the next. Because at that point, you're just wanting to get more content for free.

Whenever these topics come up, I try to explain how DLC is made, by whom, and why it can't appear on the game disc. But some people are quite happy to dig in their heels and keep spouting their incorrect and misguided statements against DLC. I'm okay with folks disagreeing with DLC or disliking it, even hating it as a concept, but please be honest about it and get your facts straight, at the very least.

And Gatt9, that goes for you too.

Stanley (can I call you Stanley?  Stan?  Mr. Woo?  Babycakes?), I think you kind of misinterpreted me a little.

I SAID I liked DLC.  Hell, Shadow Broker was amazing, and I'd be lost without my Mattock.  What frustrates me is that "bonus this" and "exclusive that" is being handed out like candy to any and every product that manages to sport the N7 logo.  It feels... cheap.  Like you guys are selling it too hard and completely in the wrong way.  It actually offends me a bit as a customer; I feel like somebody's trying to play me for a sucker.  Misguided or not, I feel like the marketing dudes think I'm stupid or something.

And if being a mod for Bioware has taught you anything, it should be that people can be very wrong about pretty much anything, but have very strong feelings about it.

Look.  I don't care how much "free stuff" I get--I paid extra money for my copy of ME3 so I could get it in a fancy box.  I bought all of ME2's DLC except for Genesis.  And you know what?  Yeah, the day one stuff okay if it's not necessary to the story (ESPECIALLY if it comes free with new/special edition copies, since people pay more for new/special edition copies), and so far you guys have been good with that.  Key phrase: so far.

I was probably a bit strong in my wording, but I'm worried what future marketing campaign might look like.

Also, what I meant by my "it should be in the game" was that it's kind of cheap and tacky for developers to start milking the DLC cow before the game's even out.  It makes fans angry, and from an outsider's perspective, it looks like we were sold an incomplete product on purpose.

So, Stan/Mr. Woo/Babycakes, do us all a favor and clear up the issue once and for all.  You have an insider's perspective--you know how this whole DLC thing works and why it works that way.  Getting some clarification would at least calm some of us down, and that's better than mass panic and loathing.

[slimgrin]

DarkPsylocke26 wrote...

. Don't comlpaint about something you don't have to buy in the first place.

You mean like CDPR's free DLC?

Anyway, DLC is fine, a great way to get out extra content, but in my humble opinon it's frequently overpriced. Publishers need to take into consideration the overall price of the game and the amount of content in a DLC pack.  

[Gibb_Shepard]

Nothing wrong with DLC, but how BW utilize it is borderline extortion.

[Yuoaman]

Bioware doesn't decide to remove content from the game to nickle and dime you guys, that's not what DLC is at all. EA gives them more money to include additional content outside of the base game - you think anyone would say no to more money?

No one would say no to more money.

[Jaron Oberyn]

Stanley Woo wrote..
You know what they call bonus content that's already in the main game? "The main game." To be a "bonus" it has be demonstrably separate from the main game. It has to be an add-on to something that is already a whole thing.

If it's "in the god damn game," it's just content, and to call it a bonus then would just anger more people because the bonus is already in the game! I don't think you can complain about "bonus DLC should be in the game" in one breath and suggest "make the bonus more invisible but still call it a bonus" in the next. Because at that point, you're just wanting to get more content for free.

Whenever these topics come up, I try to explain how DLC is made, by whom, and why it can't appear on the game disc. But some people are quite happy to dig in their heels and keep spouting their incorrect and misguided statements against DLC. I'm okay with folks disagreeing with DLC or disliking it, even hating it as a concept, but please be honest about it and get your facts straight, at the very least.

And Gatt9, that goes for you too.

Mr. Woo, I'm in the game design biz. I'm a character and environmental modeler. I use the same engine you guys use, UE3. If you think for a second you can fool me into believing that there's some legitimate reason for day one dlc and all of these weapons/armor dlcs, you have another thought coming. You guys may be able to trick the average consumer, but for someone who knows the process of implementing characters and weapons in game, not so. Quite frankly I'm tired of it, but I can't change it. If a company wants to lose its credibility with its consumer base, that's on them. I'd just like for you guys to own up to it. It's your model, and if you find that it fits your business, by all means. But don't go acting as if there's no other way. The DLC system is being abused. While I'm all for games being more than 60 bucks due to the hard work that goes into them, I don't agree with this method. Its  like buying a puzzle but not the whole thing, you have to get the rest of the pieces in another package. Once again, your free to do as you please with your company, but the consumers deserve the truth. I'll most likely buy the dlc, but that's only for this franchise. That doesn't mean I agree with it though. 


-Polite

Modifié par PoliteAssasin, 09 février 2012 - 01:46 .

[Relix28]

Stanley Woo wrote...

You know what they call bonus content that's already in the main game? "The main game." To be a "bonus" it has be demonstrably separate from the main game. It has to be an add-on to something that is already a whole thing.

If it's "in the god damn game," it's just content, and to call it a bonus then would just anger more people because the bonus is already in the game! I don't think you can complain about "bonus DLC should be in the game" in one breath and suggest "make the bonus more invisible but still call it a bonus" in the next. Because at that point, you're just wanting to get more content for free.

Whenever these topics come up, I try to explain how DLC is made, by whom, and why it can't appear on the game disc. But some people are quite happy to dig in their heels and keep spouting their incorrect and misguided statements against DLC. I'm okay with folks disagreeing with DLC or disliking it, even hating it as a concept, but please be honest about it and get your facts straight, at the very least.

And Gatt9, that goes for you too.

Don't you think it's rather controversial, to even have day-one dlc? And it's even worse, when you have (the option) to pay for 128KB digital keys to basically unlock something that is already present on the game disc itself. You guys might have planed it so, because it's easier for you to distribute it that way or whatever, but you leave the customer feeling ripped-off. We know what's going on and we also understand that business models like this mean easy profit for companies. But you can push it only so far, before the customer base gets upset about it and decides that enough is enough. And the way dlc is handled for ME3 (via obnoxious and rather desperate promotions), you are really pushing it to the limits.
ME3 might as well be my last EA game I ever buy. Because the way dlc is handled right now, is totally user-unfriendly and bonkers.

Modifié par Relix28, 09 février 2012 - 01:47 .

[tomorrowstation]

I'm still trying to work out how Lady with an Ermine is supplemental to Mona Lisa

[yuncas]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

sackyhack wrote...

The problem's with EA I think. The pre-release promotional dlc is always awful for Bioware games, with the way it's scattered everywhere. But their post-release DLC has always been god-tier. The only other company that's even in the same league is Bethesda. That's just a sign of an overzealous marketing department.

Yeah, Overlord, Shadow Broker, and Stolen Memories were all excellent, and none of them were essential to the plot--they were their own isolated mini-stories.  I have no problem with stuff like that since they're made and released after the game's finished (like expansion packs, but smaller).  I also have no problem with goofy swag available through promotions or seperate purchase, since that two bucks would otherwise go towards a king size candy bar or something else I really don't need but want anyway.  Stuff like that--stuff that comes out long after the game's been released--is a nice treat to the players.  QUALITY DLC shows one hell of a devoted dev team.

So Mattocks and Shadow Brokers and goofy-looking shades for Thane?  Okay, awsome, why not?

My problem is that EVERYTHING has exclusive DLC now.  It's moved beyond a cool bonus that makes the game more fun--now it's obnoxious and gimmicky.  I also have a problem with day one DLC because, seriously, that stuff should go in the god damn game.  There is no point in NOT including it in the vanilla edition other than to nickel and dime your consumer base.

"Bonus" content left and right before the damn game's even out?  Pathetic.

And that's my opinion on that.

I gotta say I agree almost wholeheartedly. Those sunglasses were horrible and should have never been born.

[izmirtheastarach]

Homey C-Dawg wrote...

You haven't been paying much attention then. There are plenty on these very forums. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]

Yep. Because anyone who disagrees with you is actually agreeing to "take it in the behind". It's pretty silly. Especially since all we are doing is exchanging money for games that we enjoy.

[Homey C-Dawg]

Thanks for the reply Stan.

[Homey C-Dawg]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Homey C-Dawg wrote...

You haven't been paying much attention then. There are plenty on these very forums. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]

Yep. Because anyone who disagrees with you is actually agreeing to "take it in the behind". It's pretty silly. Especially since all we are doing is exchanging money for games that we enjoy.

Perhaps I worded it a bit strongly. "Accepting anything without question" might have been more appropriate. My problem is with the business tactics, and I hold by my statement that people (as a whole) are easy to manipulate, and I don't like seeing companies taking advantage of that.

Modifié par Homey C-Dawg, 09 février 2012 - 01:48 .

[Gibb_Shepard]

Yuoaman wrote...

Bioware doesn't decide to remove content from the game to nickle and dime you guys, that's not what DLC is at all. EA gives them more money to include additional content outside of the base game - you think anyone would say no to more money?

No one would say no to more money.

Oh, the young an naive.

[AxisEvolve]

A Great Biotic Wind wrote...
But why sell 10$ DLC a whole month before the game's released?

You think they knew about this/authorized it? It was clearly a Gamestop screw up.

Many people believe that the DLC is the content that comes with the Collector's Edition. Some people wouldn't like that. But there would be significantly more outrage if they didn't offer the CE mission + squad mate to everyone.

But nothing is confirmed either way.. It's all speculation at this point so there's my maybe pointless contribution. 


Edit: I can't wait til Xbox makes the switch to Blu-Ray.. Then developers will have so much more freedom to create larger games.

Modifié par AxisEvolve, 09 février 2012 - 01:48 .

[Calibrationmaster]

Pattonesque wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

a agree 100% with the OP, and perhaps this company is the worst of them all in terms of DLC(capcom is bad too)

this [doodly-doo] is killing the industry, one thing is more contend like shadow broker or that shane character in dragon age to stop used games, other is day one DLC and cutting contend from the [gopher-feeding] game

first - shale dlc to stop used games
second - that day one character from da2 and the mercenary from mass effect 2
third - DLC for every thing related to mass effect 3 ( this i dont mind, weapons only and other [pastry])

what next? pre order DLC?

KILLING THE INDUSTRY



[no swearing, please]

 


LOOK AT HOW BADLY THE INDUSTRY IS BEING KILLED! IT HAS KILLED IT SO BADLY THAT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN FOOLED INTO ALMOST DOUBLING THE PRE-ORDER NUMBERS! KILLED! DEAD! 

and what is that graphic have to do with DLC? i can preorder only the game and not the collector edition ...

when your parents stop buying your precious games and you have to work to buy them maibe you open your eyes

[crimzontearz]

the ethical issue behind this comes down to one single information.......an information Bioware, I am told, will not discuss

[Yuoaman]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Yuoaman wrote...

Bioware doesn't decide to remove content from the game to nickle and dime you guys, that's not what DLC is at all. EA gives them more money to include additional content outside of the base game - you think anyone would say no to more money?

No one would say no to more money.

Oh, the young an naive.

It's not naivete, it's how the system works.

[Stanley Woo]

Almostfaceman wrote...

If there's a valid reason that Day 1 dlc isn't on the game disc I'm cool with that. That would pretty much be the only dlc I'd feel like I'm getting nickled and dimed on.

Usually, DLC is developed late in production by either a different team or by some of the original team who may not be needed for the main game anymore. Writers and some designers, for example, are most needed at the start and the middle of production, and less so at the end of a project.

Because it is a bonus and an extra, it has a slightly lower priority than the main game. The main game has to be content-locked and the game sent for certification anywhere between 2-8 weeks before the street date. If a game fails certification, whatever caused it to fail must get fixed, which means the entire thing must be tested again. The game must be certified all over again from the beginning because the game on disc has changed.

During the certification process, some folks can be working on a day 1 patch or moved to other projects (they're certainly not sitting idle). They could also be working to finish the DLC that will be made available on day 1. Because it is downloadable content, there is no physical media to manufacture and distribute, which means the DLC can be finished closer to the street date. It still has to be certified, but the process is much faster because it is a) not on physical media and much, much smaller than a full-sized game. Appearance packs and weapons are compartively smaller and simpler than story and character-based DLC, and people and effort are scheduled accordingly.

So, like a meal order in a kitchen, the team tries to schedule things so that everything is finished in time to come out together.

[izmirtheastarach]

Homey C-Dawg wrote...

Perhaps I worded it a bit strongly. "Accepting anything without question" might have been more appropriate. My problem is with the business tactics, and I hold by my statement that people (as a whole) are easy to manipulate, and I don't like seeing companies taking advantage of that.

Who is doing that though? Like others have said, I generally purchase DLC is think has value to me. That's not accepting without question, it's sensible purchasing. No one is being manipulated. They are being offered a product, and it's up to them to decide whether they want to purchase it.

[tetrisblock4x1]

DLC is driven purely by the consumer, so the way I see it is that people will feed gamers [pie] because we keep eating it. Only way out is to stop been [plaid]. It doesn't just go against my principles or anything, I'm simply of the opinion that been sold cheat items is [googaly moogaly] and that cosmetics shouldn't be worth more than $2.

[no swearing, please]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 09 février 2012 - 01:58 .

[Gibb_Shepard]

BogdanV wrote...

I may be tired, or misguided, but haven't some of these DLCs been actual content that was branched off from the trunk during development ?

We see throughout the software industry assets and ideas that were developed within product X only to be removed and either released separately or in a future release.
Just because they were repackaged and marketed as "extra" content doesn't excuse the fact that they were ripped from the main branch before it RTM'ed.

Of course this doesn't apply to content that was developed post RTM or in paralel.

Yup, that's what the DLC squadmate was.

To those who know that DLC squadmate, know that if BW weren't set on extorting their fans, he would have been in the game. The damn thing is integral to the game.

[Someone With Mass]

The way they did it with ME2 was pretty good.

The way they're doing it with ME3 is getting out of hand, because there's no way that anyone will be able to get all the DLC items and I think that's cheap. Not that I think that the items are uber-important to the gaming experience, but it'd be nice to have some extra swag without having to jump around like a circus monkey for it.