730 réponses à ce sujet

[Tooneyman]

I'm a publisher. I'm going to make money. I'm going to give you the game and to make it even sweeter. I'm going to offer you some extra perks. Instead of giving you posters and toys. I'm going to add to your game by giving you more stuff to do. In order for me to give you this stuff. I have to activate a code in the game which will allow these applications to go through with as little bugs as possible. When another programmer looks at the code. Its going to look like it was apart of the original game, but in the end. It was an added bonus before launch so I could make sure the transitions of new content to the game were added in. Now I holla at all of you.

I love DLC. Its great. I love cool armors. I loved fun weapons like the Terminus cannon and I love having a character who I can make look really cool. I love extra story to see how my game can change with decisions. I loved the DLC. I was happy to have different looks for the characters like Miranda and Jack and I was happy to fork over the cash. I wish the prices would have been a little lower, but its better than buying a used game at gamestop were I truly get ripped off. No seriously let me ask you all a question. I would rather by some moderately priced DLC from my game publisher than buy over priced used games from a Retail company any day because I know the money is going right back into the studio who makes this wonderful game I've fallin in love with. Bioware keep making the DLC and do me a favor. MAke sure you have more constumes for my characters in ME 3. I want my tali to look awesome and what's going to be even cooler is hopefully they will have some awesome story missions for Multiplayer. Hehe. Holla!

[AdmiralCheez]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Usually, DLC is developed late in production by either a different team or by some of the original team who may not be needed for the main game anymore. Writers and some designers, for example, are most needed at the start and the middle of production, and less so at the end of a project.

Because it is a bonus and an extra, it has a slightly lower priority than the main game. The main game has to be content-locked and the game sent for certification anywhere between 2-8 weeks before the street date. If a game fails certification, whatever caused it to fail must get fixed, which means the entire thing must be tested again. The game must be certified all over again from the beginning because the game on disc has changed.

During the certification process, some folks can be working on a day 1 patch or moved to other projects (they're certainly not sitting idle). They could also be working to finish the DLC that will be made available on day 1. Because it is downloadable content, there is no physical media to manufacture and distribute, which means the DLC can be finished closer to the street date. It still has to be certified, but the process is much faster because it is a) not on physical media and much, much smaller than a full-sized game. Appearance packs and weapons are compartively smaller and simpler than story and character-based DLC, and people and effort are scheduled accordingly.

So, like a meal order in a kitchen, the team tries to schedule things so that everything is finished in time to come out together.

I really appreciate the explanation--thanks for clearing it up!

You know what?  You guys should do a feature article/interview on the decisions/processes behind DLC at some later date when everyone's less wiped out.  That would clear the air and give some insight into the industry, two things fans will squeal giddily over.

[Almostfaceman]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

If there's a valid reason that Day 1 dlc isn't on the game disc I'm cool with that. That would pretty much be the only dlc I'd feel like I'm getting nickled and dimed on.

Usually, DLC is developed late in production by either a different team or by some of the original team who may not be needed for the main game anymore. Writers and some designers, for example, are most needed at the start and the middle of production, and less so at the end of a project.

Because it is a bonus and an extra, it has a slightly lower priority than the main game. The main game has to be content-locked and the game sent for certification anywhere between 2-8 weeks before the street date. If a game fails certification, whatever caused it to fail must get fixed, which means the entire thing must be tested again. The game must be certified all over again from the beginning because the game on disc has changed.

During the certification process, some folks can be working on a day 1 patch or moved to other projects (they're certainly not sitting idle). They could also be working to finish the DLC that will be made available on day 1. Because it is downloadable content, there is no physical media to manufacture and distribute, which means the DLC can be finished closer to the street date. It still has to be certified, but the process is much faster because it is a) not on physical media and much, much smaller than a full-sized game. Appearance packs and weapons are compartively smaller and simpler than story and character-based DLC, and people and effort are scheduled accordingly.

So, like a meal order in a kitchen, the team tries to schedule things so that everything is finished in time to come out together.

Thank you for telling me this, makes sense to me. 

[Redcoat]

I have no issue with DLC like Lair of the Shadow Broker, where it was clearly worked on after the game was released, and that clearly added additional content to the full game. It's no different from a developer releasing an expansion pack a few months down the road.

I do, however, take issue with Day 1 DLC, where it's obvious that the "extra content" was completed before release and is being sold separately just to make a few more dollars of the fanbase. I'd wager that players won't see this as "extra, optional bonus content" but instead look upon it as being, "I have to shell out yet more money just to get the complete product!" No, they're not "forced" to buy any of the DLC, but neither will this glut of Day 1 DLC build any goodwill among the consumers.

[madclaw]

I understand that DLC is developed at a different time and ideas that weren't present during development came up, or there were issues trying to implement it, or it just couldn't be fit into the game itself. If it doesn't have a direct impact on the story I can understand parceling it out and making some extra profit. And no you don't have to buy the dlc.

The problem I do have is that an important piece of story was left out of the game, i.e. Arrival. You can say you don't need to buy it. But to really know what's going on in the beginning of ME3 you kinda need to play it/know what's going on. From what we've seen thus far the beginning events of ME3 are a direct result of actions that take place in a dlc. So, in other words, story integral information for the plot basis of ME3 are in a dlc that you 'don't have to buy.' When in reality if you want the whole story you kinda do.

Now, I do understand that this was developed and released at a later date. I understand that. But Bioware had already released a number of dlc for free, provided you bought the game new. This was a great idea. I really hope Bioware keeps up the free dlc for people that buy new copies of the game. I just wish that an import piece of the story had also been released in this fashion as well.

Modifié par madclaw, 09 février 2012 - 02:08 .

[HiddenKING]

I want How The Collectors Stole Christmas DLC.

[crimzontearz]

Redcoat wrote...
I have no issue with DLC like Lair of the Shadow Broker, where it was clearly worked on after the game was released, and that clearly added additional content to the full game. It's no different from a developer releasing an expansion pack a few months down the road.

I do, however, take issue with Day 1 DLC, where it's obvious that the "extra content" was completed before release and is being sold separately just to make a few more dollars of the fanbase. I'd wager that players won't see this as "extra, optional bonus content" but instead look upon it as being, "I have to shell out yet more money just to get the complete product!" No, they're not "forced" to buy any of the DLC, but neither will this glut of Day 1 DLC build any goodwill among the consumers.

it's not a matter of when.....it's a matter of budget

[Saint Op]

Honestly if you look back at the fact the price of games themselves changed very little in the last almost 30 years & that the cost to make them has risen tremendously, you should consider yourself lucky. All you have the "option" to pay over game price is a extra 5-15 $'s for things that they still have to make.
Besides nobody can say ME2 wasn't a full game experiance without Overlord or a apperance pack...

[Tooneyman]

Calibrationmaster wrote...

Pattonesque wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

a agree 100% with the OP, and perhaps this company is the worst of them all in terms of DLC(capcom is bad too)

this [doodly-doo] is killing the industry, one thing is more contend like shadow broker or that shane character in dragon age to stop used games, other is day one DLC and cutting contend from the [gopher-feeding] game

first - shale dlc to stop used games
second - that day one character from da2 and the mercenary from mass effect 2
third - DLC for every thing related to mass effect 3 ( this i dont mind, weapons only and other [pastry])

what next? pre order DLC?

KILLING THE INDUSTRY



[no swearing, please]

 


LOOK AT HOW BADLY THE INDUSTRY IS BEING KILLED! IT HAS KILLED IT SO BADLY THAT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN FOOLED INTO ALMOST DOUBLING THE PRE-ORDER NUMBERS! KILLED! DEAD! 

and what is that graphic have to do with DLC? i can preorder only the game and not the collector edition ...

when your parents stop buying your precious games and you have to work to buy them maibe you open your eyes

I buy my own stuff. I don't feel anything. I don't need to understand. I'm just happy the fact Bioware made a game triology which spans over three games with a character choices you make yourself. I've been through 1 and am going to 3. It has been a long run with my shepard, but i'm and other fans are dang proud of this series. I will expect nothing less than love for the game they made in the end. When its over I hope bioware gives Casey Hudson some well deserved time off to get some sleep because that man and his team deserve it. Holla!

[Niemack Saarinen]

@madclaw -- arguably they were probably deciding story and plot direction hence why arrival was the very last DLC to be had, they couldn't have slapped it in the full game then went "err we change our mind" hence why it was a DLC. and they very well couldn't give it out for free, either way in ME3 im sure they'll recap ME2 anyways so.....

[Calibrationmaster]

madclaw wrote...

I understand that DLC is developed at a different time and ideas that weren't present during development came up, or there were issues trying to implement it, or it just couldn't be fit into the game itself. If it doesn't have a direct impact on the story I can understand parceling it out and making some extra profit. And no you don't have to buy the dlc.

The problem I do have is that an important piece of story was left out of the game, i.e. Arrival. You can say you don't need to buy it. But to really know what's going on in the beginning of ME3 you kinda need to play it/know what's going on. From what we've seen thus far the beginning events of ME3 are a direct result of actions that take place in a dlc. So, in other words, story integral information for the plot basis of ME3 are in a dlc that you 'don't have to buy.' When in reality if you want the whole story you kinda do.

arrival is like going to a movie theater and in the last 15  minutes you have to pay an extra to see the end

[Ihatebadgames]

I don't believe I agree and understand Stanley Woo!DLC are extra.If you want it get it,if not don't.
I love most of the DLC we've been getting from BioWare just wish there was a better way to get it other than downloading it off the web.LotSB took 8-12 hours for me to download.I prefer hard copies.

[izmirtheastarach]

Calibrationmaster wrote...

arrival is like going to a movie theater and in the last 15  minutes you have to pay an extra to see the end

Except that Arrival has not been made when you watched the movie. It could not have been in it. And it cost money to develop. So you have to pay money to get it. This is not complicated.

[Bleachrude]

Stanley Woo wrote...

DLC is driven purely by the consumer, so the way I see it is that people will feed gamers [pie] because we keep eating it. Only way out is to stop been [plaid]. It doesn't just go against my principles or anything, I'm simply of the opinion that been sold cheat items is [googaly moogaly] and that cosmetics shouldn't be worth more than $2.

[no swearing, please]

Personally, I think skins and appearance/gun packs are not even worth $2. The thing is, the demand for this has to exist since every company does it. I don't blame the companies one bit for this since there is a market.

Hell, if anything, my question would be directed to the consumers as to why they buy things like appearance and gun packs..

[OmegaBlue0231]

Niemack Saarinen wrote...

@madclaw -- arguably they were probably deciding story and plot direction hence why arrival was the very last DLC to be had, they couldn't have slapped it in the full game then went "err we change our mind" hence why it was a DLC. and they very well couldn't give it out for free, either way in ME3 im sure they'll recap ME2 anyways so.....

Exactly, I saw another topic where they linked to an article where Bioware said they make up the story as they go. They probably didn't even know they were going to need Arrival until they started on the story for ME3.

[slimgrin]

Bleachrude wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

DLC is driven purely by the consumer, so the way I see it is that people will feed gamers [pie] because we keep eating it. Only way out is to stop been [plaid]. It doesn't just go against my principles or anything, I'm simply of the opinion that been sold cheat items is [googaly moogaly] and that cosmetics shouldn't be worth more than $2.

[no swearing, please]

Personally, I think skins and appearance/gun packs are not even worth $2.

I think they're worth $2 and no more.

Modifié par slimgrin, 09 février 2012 - 02:10 .

[Stanley Woo]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Stanley (can I call you Stanley?  Stan?  Mr. Woo?  Babycakes?), I think you kind of misinterpreted me a little.

Ylou can call me any of those things.

I SAID I liked DLC.  Hell, Shadow Broker was amazing, and I'd be lost without my Mattock.  What frustrates me is that "bonus this" and "exclusive that" is being handed out like candy to any and every product that manages to sport the N7 logo.  It feels... cheap.  Like you guys are selling it too hard and completely in the wrong way.  It actually offends me a bit as a customer; I feel like somebody's trying to play me for a sucker.  Misguided or not, I feel like the marketing dudes think I'm stupid or something.

And if being a mod for Bioware has taught you anything, it should be that people can be very wrong about pretty much anything, but have very strong feelings about it.

Absolutely. Unfortunately, i can't control how you feel about DLC. All i can do is explain things as openly and honestly as I can in the hopes that, even if you choose not to buy the DLC, you will at least understand the hows and whys of it. i know many people get really freaked out by some of the things that game companies do, and much of it is because they aren't involved in the industry and have no idea just how much and what kind of work goes into making their favourite games.

I'm not here to convince people to like all DLC, or even to like all BioWare or EA DLC. I'm just here to correct some misinformation, to try and reassure people that no, bonus stuff is not (and should never be) crucial to the game experience, and to maybe change the way they see DLC and reinterpret what it means to them. In my opinion, seeing it as truly a bonus and as something extra is a good way of doing that, like sprinkles on an ice cream sundae or anchovies on a meat lovers pizza! Mmmmm anchovies!

I was probably a bit strong in my wording, but I'm worried what future marketing campaign might look like.

You wanna know something? Publishers and developers are also worried what the future might look like, which is why they try various ways to get people to buy their games and keep buying them. BioWare experimented with DLC-like products back in the Neverwinter Nights days, when "premium modules" were sold as extras. No one complained about it back then. They were too excited about getting to keep playing official NWN modules created by BioWare!

Also, what I meant by my "it should be in the game" was that it's kind of cheap and tacky for developers to start milking the DLC cow before the game's even out.  It makes fans angry, and from an outsider's perspective, it looks like we were sold an incomplete product on purpose.

And as i keep telling people, that's not the intention and we cannot control how people interpret the DLC concept. As with anything new or different, some folks love it, some are okay with it even if they choose not to buy it, some folks really hate it, and some have a very skewed view of it. But that's the internet for you. My posts are mainly for that last group, but some attitudes are hardwired and difficult to change.

[izmirtheastarach]

Ihatebadgames wrote...

I don't believe I agree and understand Stanley Woo!DLC are extra.If you want it get it,if not don't.
I love most of the DLC we've been getting from BioWare just wish there was a better way to get it other than downloading it off the web.LotSB took 8-12 hours for me to download.I prefer hard copies.

You need to get yourself some faster internets.

[Bostur]

DLC doesn't exactly feel optional when it is constantly hinted to in-game or outright advertised. It breaks immersion when I get store pages in my face, and it sometimes makes me wonder if the game was balanced for the DLC. If it was a free game, I can see why it would be necessary. But for a premium priced product, it feels like I'm being ripped off.

An even worse case is when a game gives me DLC for 'free', and fail to mark it clearly. I generally avoid DLC gear because I get a worse playing experience. But sometimes it's almost impossible to tell what is supposed to be in the original game. In the end it feels like developers don't care about game balance, only about squeezing as much cash they can from the franchise.

Is the game buggy? Then buy the DLC to fix it. These days the concept of a whole game is lost due to DLC.

So no DLC is not optional. The presence of a DLC market seriously impacts the games for the worse.

You wanna know something? Publishers and developers are also worried
what the future might look like, which is why they try various ways to
get people to buy their games and keep buying them. BioWare experimented
with DLC-like products back in the Neverwinter Nights days, when
"premium modules" were sold as extras. No one complained about it back
then. They were too excited about getting to keep playing official NWN
modules created by BioWare!

See, thats a great way to do it. Premium modules, expansion packs, mission packs.

I loved LOTSB, great little mission for a low price. But I didn't like the tie-in to the rest of the game. Keeping expansions separated and isolated from the main game is better. Having NPCs make a sale pitch for a DLC feels cheesy.

When I buy a game, I'd like to be sure that I get what I pay for. Best way to ensure the future of making games is to give customers the product they deserve and paid for.

Modifié par Bostur, 09 février 2012 - 02:17 .

[madclaw]

Niemack Saarinen wrote...

@madclaw -- arguably they were probably deciding story and plot direction hence why arrival was the very last DLC to be had, they couldn't have slapped it in the full game then went "err we change our mind" hence why it was a DLC. and they very well couldn't give it out for free, either way in ME3 im sure they'll recap ME2 anyways so.....

And I understand that. I know that the company and the developers have to make money too. But after all the other dlcs they had released it would have been nice to see it as a free dlc. And trust me I know how crazy that sounds. But it can be frustrating when in a medium when choice is given to you but then suddenly taken away becuase you didn't shell out that extra $15. Not that you really had a choice to not ram that asteroid into the Mass Relay.

[hex23]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Mr. Woo, I'm in the game design biz. I'm a character and environmental modeler. I use the same engine you guys use, UE3. If you think for a second you can fool me into believing that there's some legitimate reason for day one dlc and all of these weapons/armor dlcs, you have another thought coming. You guys may be able to trick the average consumer, but for someone who knows the process of implementing characters and weapons in game, not so. Quite frankly I'm tired of it, but I can't change it. If a company wants to lose its credibility with its consumer base, that's on them. I'd just like for you guys to own up to it. It's your model, and if you find that it fits your business, by all means. But don't go acting as if there's no other way. The DLC system is being abused. While I'm all for games being more than 60 bucks due to the hard work that goes into them, I don't agree with this method. Its  like buying a puzzle but not the whole thing, you have to get the rest of the pieces in another package. Once again, your free to do as you please with your company, but the consumers deserve the truth. I'll most likely buy the dlc, but that's only for this franchise. That doesn't mean I agree with it though. 


-Polite

Who are you and what have you worked on?

[atheelogos]

Yeah I'm getting pretty sick of this stuff too. I've heard that a certain squadmate can only be gotten if you get the N7 edition.... If this is true and if said NPC is who I think it is I will be very upset.

To leave such an important character out of the game and leave the rest of us with no way to get him/her is a very disapointing move.

If this is true then shame Bioware.... shame

[Someone With Mass]

We should feel lucky that we don't have to pay for patches anymore.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 09 février 2012 - 02:15 .