Aller au contenu

Photo

To the attention of Bioware team and community: please stop DLCs


730 réponses à ce sujet

#176
AdmiralCheez

AdmiralCheez
  • Members
  • 12 990 messages

Stanley Woo wrote...

Ylou can call me any of those things. :)

Babycakes it is, then.  With luck and planning, the boys back at the office will start using it.  Suits you much better than "Stanley."

Absolutely. Unfortunately, i can't control how you feel about DLC. All i can do is explain things as openly and honestly as I can in the hopes that, even if you choose not to buy the DLC, you will at least understand the hows and whys of it. i know many people get really freaked out by some of the things that game companies do, and much of it is because they aren't involved in the industry and have no idea just how much and what kind of work goes into making their favourite games.

I'm not here to convince people to like all DLC, or even to like all BioWare or EA DLC. I'm just here to correct some misinformation, to try and reassure people that no, bonus stuff is not (and should never be) crucial to the game experience, and to maybe change the way they see DLC and reinterpret what it means to them. In my opinion, seeing it as truly a bonus and as something extra is a good way of doing that, like sprinkles on an ice cream sundae or anchovies on a meat lovers pizza! Mmmmm anchovies! :)

And that's fine.  But could you at least explain the rationale behind "let's put DLC in everything lol," or is that a marketing secret?  Because seriously, DLC from an XBox case that looks like a pair of metal man boobs?

No offense to the guy that designed the case, but seriously, not my thing.  Wonderful detailing, though.

You wanna know something? Publishers and developers are also worried what the future might look like, which is why they try various ways to get people to buy their games and keep buying them. BioWare experimented with DLC-like products back in the Neverwinter Nights days, when "premium modules" were sold as extras. No one complained about it back then. They were too excited about getting to keep playing official NWN modules created by BioWare!

Have they tried, you know, actually selling the game on its own merits?  That, er, may sound a bit naive, but seriously, the reason I and everyone I know personally got into Mass Effect is because a friend told us the games were good.  We wondered why, so we looked up information.  What we found was this incredible universe we couldn't wait to jump into, populated with characters we couldn't wait to meet, sprinkled with cool weapons and powers we were itchy to test out on some seriously badass-looking bad guys.

So, uh, maybe a little more of this or this sort of thing?  With, you know, less Facebook/celebrity spotlighs/get-this-cool-thing-for-buying-this-other-cool-thing, infomercial spammery?

Because THAT'S what got me/my friends/that one guy two dorms down from me into these games.

And as i keep telling people, that's not the intention and we cannot control how people interpret the DLC concept. As with anything new or different, some folks love it, some are okay with it even if they choose not to buy it, some folks really hate it, and some have a very skewed view of it. But that's the internet for you. My posts are mainly for that last group, but some attitudes are hardwired and difficult to change.

Just because people have differing opinions on a subject doesn't mean that there isn't a real issue present.  The whole DLC debacle might ultimately do your product a disservice.  Keyword: might.  More data needed.

#177
Stanley Woo

Stanley Woo
  • BioWare Employees
  • 8 368 messages

BillsVengenace wrote...

Why does Stanley Woo only appear in threads to defend EA's vile and disgusting abuse of DLC and their consumers?

Usually because most people aren't familiar with the way businesses work and spout a lot of incorrect information, basing entire philosophies and attitudes on it. Your statement itself is an example of the kind of "sensationalist hyperbole" that is born out of a) not being a business owner, B) not having a stake, professional, personal, or monetary, in the products being discussed, and c) the general notion that all corporations are inherently evil and care nothing for the consumer (even though that same company requires consumers in order to survive). to some people, companies are at once "ensuring they're driving all their customers away" and "milking the customer for all they're worth." You can't do both at the same time. :)

Also, noting is gained or learned when we all agree on something. it's only when we can talk out our disagreements that we can learn something new and, maybe, change our minds about things. Oh, and in case it's unclear, I work for a large corporation but I am still an advocate of consumer power, another reason I like these discussions.

#178
izmirtheastarach

izmirtheastarach
  • Members
  • 5 298 messages

aLucidMind wrote...

What is "FUD"?


Fear, uncertainty and doubt

Disinformation. Facts that are not facts.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 09 février 2012 - 02:36 .


#179
AngryFrozenWater

AngryFrozenWater
  • Members
  • 9 086 messages

aLucidMind wrote...

What is "FUD"?

Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.

Edit: Ghehe. Beaten by a minute or so.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 09 février 2012 - 02:38 .


#180
Calibrationmaster

Calibrationmaster
  • Members
  • 492 messages
the truth is , do we have day one DLC with mass effect ? NO

after EA buy BIOWARE this thing got worse and worse starting with dragon age

#181
Kileyan

Kileyan
  • Members
  • 1 923 messages
Hey Stanley Woo, now that you are done defending the huge waves of DLC that I do not really disagree with anyway, any chance you could comment on the huge difference between single large expansion packs of old............compared to the grand total of the DLC of today.

In my dream world I could buy the firepower pack to use in my huge content filled expansion pack. Why is it that we cannot get content any large than an hour adventure every 3+ months. I want to give you my money, I might even buy both small dlc's and expansions, but I really do miss the option to ever see the latter. I'm getting to the point that it is getting easier and easier to just push off game purchases until the game of the year editions include everything, and not just your companies products.

Modifié par Kileyan, 09 février 2012 - 02:42 .


#182
Guest_Rezources_*

Guest_Rezources_*
  • Guests

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Homey C-Dawg wrote...

Perhaps I worded it a bit strongly. "Accepting anything without question" might have been more appropriate. My problem is with the business tactics, and I hold by my statement that people (as a whole) are easy to manipulate, and I don't like seeing companies taking advantage of that.


Who is doing that though? Like others have said, I generally purchase DLC is think has value to me. That's not accepting without question, it's sensible purchasing. No one is being manipulated. They are being offered a product, and it's up to them to decide whether they want to purchase it.


*Edit: This was a response to Woo's post about day one DLC. I responded to the wrong post because I am dumb.

So what's the story with the Warden's Keep DLC that was available from day one? The dude who gives you the quest is in the game regardless of whether or not you got the DLC and tells you to buy it to talk to him. Also, a chest to store items in seems like something that really should have been in the base game while a guy who is there to constantly remind you you're playing an incomplete game does not.

Modifié par Rezources, 09 février 2012 - 02:43 .


#183
izmirtheastarach

izmirtheastarach
  • Members
  • 5 298 messages

Rezources wrote...

So what's the story with the Warden's Keep DLC that was available from day one? The dude who gives you the quest is in the game regardless of whether or not you got the DLC and tells you to buy it to talk to him. Also, a chest to store items in seems like something that really should have been in the base game while a guy who is there to constantly remind you you're playing an incomplete game does not.


It was an attempt to try something new. You didn't like it, fine. I've really not seen that kind of thing in other games. So call it a failed experiment.

And the reason it was annoying is nothing to do with DLC really. It's that it broke immersion.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 09 février 2012 - 02:45 .


#184
lobi

lobi
  • Members
  • 2 096 messages
I like DLC that is story related. The op items not so much, they make me lazy with the game and unbalance it. I still buy it all though.
They also take up too much space in the inventory in the early part of the game.
I still get the stuffs hoping for new textures and dyes. So it really annoys when the premium DLC has no HiRes textures.
But, just because it is there does not mean I have to use it every game. I still like doing vannila on nightmare for the challenge.
Basically I dont really mind if there is some promotional DLC from partners unavailable to me. There is always more than enough other DLC to play with for me.

Modifié par lobi, 09 février 2012 - 02:54 .


#185
Stanley Woo

Stanley Woo
  • BioWare Employees
  • 8 368 messages

AdmiralCheez wrote...

And that's fine.  But could you at least explain the rationale behind "let's put DLC in everything lol," or is that a marketing secret?  Because seriously, DLC from an XBox case that looks like a pair of metal man boobs?

You got me. I think it's pretty snazzy, but not something I'm intrested in getting. :)

Have they tried, you know, actually selling the game on its own merits?  That, er, may sound a bit naive, but seriously, the reason I and everyone I know personally got into Mass Effect is because a friend told us the games were good.  We wondered why, so we looked up information.  What we found was this incredible universe we couldn't wait to jump into, populated with characters we couldn't wait to meet, sprinkled with cool weapons and powers we were itchy to test out on some seriously badass-looking bad guys.

Sure, but I look at it the same way as looking for a job. Why do you need a resume when your work ethic and dedication and loyalty will stand on its own? Why wear nice clothes to the interview when they have nothing to do with how well you work?

Advertising is all about making something look or feel more desirable to the casual and average viewer. Fans of Mass Effect can only get more excited about the game, and those who don't know about it will see all these reminders about the game and may become as big a fan as you and your friends. But that initial desire to buy has to come from somewhere, right? Marketing has to contend with a market of millions of potential customers, not just existing fans, those who would probably like Mass Effect anyway, and people who browse game news sites all the time. they've got to reach as many people as they can. that's kinda their job.

Just because people have differing opinions on a subject doesn't mean that there isn't a real issue present.  The whole DLC debacle might ultimately do your product a disservice.  Keyword: might.  More data needed.

True. But if that's the case, it's not going to be because people said so, as much as we welcome and appreciate the feedback. It's going to be proven by numbers gathered by a bunch of people whose job it is to analyze those things and report back to us.

#186
atheelogos

atheelogos
  • Members
  • 4 554 messages

Ihatebadgames wrote...
LotSB took 8-12 hours for me to download.I prefer hard copies.

........ there might be something wrong with your connection lol

#187
Bostur

Bostur
  • Members
  • 399 messages

Stanley Woo wrote...
True. But if that's the case, it's not going to be because people said so, as much as we welcome and appreciate the feedback. It's going to be proven by numbers gathered by a bunch of people whose job it is to analyze those things and report back to us.


Will numbers tell how good your product is? Or just how much money it made?

Because in the latter case McDonalds should have 3 Michelin stars.

#188
atheelogos

atheelogos
  • Members
  • 4 554 messages

izmirtheastarach wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

Yeah I'm getting pretty sick of this stuff too. I've heard that a certain squadmate can only be gotten if you get the N7 edition.... If this is true and if said NPC is who I think it is I will be very upset.

To leave such an important character out of the game and leave the rest of us with no way to get him/her is a very disapointing move.

If this is true then shame Bioware.... shame

but Bioware may end up announcing that it comes with all new copies

We can only hope

#189
atheelogos

atheelogos
  • Members
  • 4 554 messages

OmegaBlue0231 wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

Yeah I'm getting pretty sick of this stuff too. I've heard that a certain squadmate can only be gotten if you get the N7 edition.... If this is true and if said NPC is who I think it is I will be very upset.

To leave such an important character out of the game and leave the rest of us with no way to get him/her is a very disapointing move.

If this is true then shame Bioware.... shame


They've already said and it's been repeated many times, the DLC character included with the CE will be purchaseable for non CE people.

damn we still gotta buy it?.... Was hoping it would be free

#190
crimzontearz

crimzontearz
  • Members
  • 16 785 messages

Bostur wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...
True. But if that's the case, it's not going to be because people said so, as much as we welcome and appreciate the feedback. It's going to be proven by numbers gathered by a bunch of people whose job it is to analyze those things and report back to us.

Will numbers tell how good your product is? Or just how much money it made?

Because in the latter case McDonalds should have 3 Michelin stars.


AH..... I use that analogy all the time

#191
shepskisaac

shepskisaac
  • Members
  • 16 374 messages

Stanley Woo wrote...

to some people, companies are at once "ensuring they're driving all their customers away" and "milking the customer for all they're worth." You can't do both at the same time. :)

Ubisoft's PC departement would like to have a word with you :P

Modifié par IsaacShep, 09 février 2012 - 02:54 .


#192
Stanley Woo

Stanley Woo
  • BioWare Employees
  • 8 368 messages

Kileyan wrote...

Hey Stanley Woo, now that you are done defending the huge waves of DLC that I do not really disagree with anyway, any chance you could comment on the huge difference between single large expansion packs of old............compared to the grand total of the DLC of today.

Sure, i'll try and field this one. In my opinion, videogames and gaming has become extremely popular, so much so that it's no longer considered "nerdy" or "unpopular." With the invention of the Nintendo Wii, browser games, mobile and tablet games, and with large-scale adoption of broadband interrnet, gaming has never been more popular and it looks to get more popular still. because of this popularity, there is a lot of competition. There will never be a time when the average gamer is without a game to play, whether it's Angry birds, the latest AAA release, an ongoing MMO, or Farmville on Facebook.

Expansion packs were a way to keep people interested in a game long after they were finished the main game's story. Due to the size of expansion pack, they were few and far between. these day, i reckon, in the time it takes for a developer to release a full-on expansion pack, people might already have forgotten your game. DLC is, again, in my opinion, a way to counteract that "forgetfulness." With smaller but more frequent content releases, you keep people interested in your game for a lot longer, which means potential sales of sequels can be bigger and, if actual expansion packs are released, players will still be hankering for them.

i see DLC as micro-expansion packs, which is probably why i don't really have a problem with them. the old game + expansion model had to adapt to the changing market and player expecation, just as game budgets had to increase to keep up with player expectation. DLC pricing is the way it is (seen as more expensive than similar amounts of content in a single expansion pack) to get a better return on a much larger investment than, say, 10 years ago.

A decade ago, a million-dollar game would have been pretty snazzy. These days, AAA titles probably run in the tens or even the dozens of millions. That's why all the advertising (now seen at the movie theatre, on television, billboards, etc., and not just in game enthusiast magazines). That's why the ancillary products / tie-ins. That's why everything, really. :)

#193
atheelogos

atheelogos
  • Members
  • 4 554 messages

I-am-Biwinning wrote...

I'd love to see the demise of dlc as long as the return of the expansion pack follows it.

That would be something to see lol 

#194
The Sarendoctrinator

The Sarendoctrinator
  • Members
  • 1 947 messages
I guess my reasons for hating the DLC system are different from most of yours... It's not that I mind paying for extra missions. I gladly bought DAO, the Awakening expansion, and the Ultimate Edition just so I could have all of that content. My problem is that DLC is unavailable to me unless it's released later on the game disc, because I don't use an internet connection with my Xbox (or any consoles). I don't even mind waiting a year to play the extras, as long as they're eventually released on a disc the way they were with DAO, but that hasn't happened for Mass Effect.

The extra weapons and armor aren't really something that I miss. It would be nice to have, but it's not important to me. It's annoying to miss out on extra characters and story missions, but whatever, I deal with it because I have no other choice until I can afford a gaming PC. But in my opinion, missions like Arrival shouldn't be DLC-only. It's a huge plot point, and even referenced in ME3, which I assume will happen whether the player actually has the DLC or not. I've watched enough on youtube that I won't be completely lost when the events of Arrival are brought up in ME3, but really, if characters in the game are going to believe that my Shepards' actions killed a bunch of batarians no matter what... I should at least have the chance to make them do it themselves, and not just hear about it later.

ME2: Ultimate Edition, please, BioWare?

#195
AngryFrozenWater

AngryFrozenWater
  • Members
  • 9 086 messages

Stanley Woo wrote...

BillsVengenace wrote...

Why does Stanley Woo only appear in threads to defend EA's vile and disgusting abuse of DLC and their consumers?

Usually because most people aren't familiar with the way businesses work and spout a lot of incorrect information, basing entire philosophies and attitudes on it. Your statement itself is an example of the kind of "sensationalist hyperbole" that is born out of a) not being a business owner, B) not having a stake, professional, personal, or monetary, in the products being discussed, and c) the general notion that all corporations are inherently evil and care nothing for the consumer (even though that same company requires consumers in order to survive). to some people, companies are at once "ensuring they're driving all their customers away" and "milking the customer for all they're worth." You can't do both at the same time. :)

Also, noting is gained or learned when we all agree on something. it's only when we can talk out our disagreements that we can learn something new and, maybe, change our minds about things. Oh, and in case it's unclear, I work for a large corporation but I am still an advocate of consumer power, another reason I like these discussions.

Not being a business owner, not having a stake and feeling that EA is evil has nothing to do that a consumer doesn't like these business practices for which there is no indication that they actually work. As a consumer I know what I want. First and foremost I want a kick ass game. Save the energy put in your marketing incentives to improve the basic game.

The problem with how BW's games are sold is that I have the feeling of not buying a game, but that I am part of your economic equation and that anything goes - from cross product marketing to the collection of unknown data on my computer. If BW/EA wants to get rid of that evil image then they have to clean up their act.

#196
Stanley Woo

Stanley Woo
  • BioWare Employees
  • 8 368 messages

The Sarendoctrinator wrote...

I guess my reasons for hating the DLC system are different from most of yours... It's not that I mind paying for extra missions. I gladly bought DAO, the Awakening expansion, and the Ultimate Edition just so I could have all of that content. My problem is that DLC is unavailable to me unless it's released later on the game disc, because I don't use an internet connection with my Xbox (or any consoles). I don't even mind waiting a year to play the extras, as long as they're eventually released on a disc the way they were with DAO, but that hasn't happened for Mass Effect.

I get you. I grew up a PC gamer and only got into console gaming in the last 5 years or so. My experiences and tolerances and preferences will be slightly different than yours. :)

#197
KennethAFTopp

KennethAFTopp
  • Members
  • 1 480 messages
I don't mind DLC, Mass Effect's DLCS were excellent, Dragon Age's less so except for Shale. But this Pre order scavenger Hunt, do this and hop like that to get this item or like this on Twitter to get this Grenade launcher has become incredibly Obscene.

Like the Mr. Caffeine of Video Game Marketing.

Modifié par KennethAFTopp, 09 février 2012 - 02:59 .


#198
atheelogos

atheelogos
  • Members
  • 4 554 messages

DarkLord_PT wrote...

I just want the option to be able to buy the bloody DLC, and the DLC alone.
Is it too much to ask for the option to buy this DLC separate from the the far too vast myriad of products you're attaching them to? .

Bioware we want to give you money.... why won't u let us?:blink:

#199
TheRealJayDee

TheRealJayDee
  • Members
  • 2 950 messages

Stanley Woo wrote...

Advertising is all about making something look or feel more desirable to the casual and average viewer. Fans of Mass Effect can only get more excited about the game, and those who don't know about it will see all these reminders about the game and may become as big a fan as you and your friends


And this is where you are wrong, at least as far as my personal experience goes. I'm noticeably less excited about ME3 than let's say half a year ago, and your marketing and advertising focused more or less completely on the potential new players isn't helping at all.


edit: Just because I already am a fan doesn't mean I'll buy your game no matter what (did anyone say Origin?), so you probably shouldn't forget me.

Modifié par TheRealJayDee, 09 février 2012 - 03:03 .


#200
FFinfinity1

FFinfinity1
  • Members
  • 531 messages

izmirtheastarach wrote...

FFinfinity1 wrote...

DLCs peeve me off more than anything now. I remember buying Expansion packs for sims 2 and not feeling jipped. Now they make you pay 5-10 bucks for some digital gun. Or take out a part of the original game and sell it to us. Like they did with Zaeed in ME2 (yes he was suppose to be in the original game -,-)


Did you pay for Zaeed? I did not. He came with my game. For free.


Well that was a bad example of a payable DLC but he was suppose to be included in the base game. There making a habbit of this. A better example would be map packs from CoD, Why not include 3-4 extra maps in the original game when you can sell em :P