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To the attention of Bioware team and community: please stop DLCs


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#201
Stanley Woo

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AngryFrozenWater wrote...
First and foremost I want a kick ass game.

Done. Based on everything I'm hearing from my coworkers, ME3 is arguably the best story we've yet released. One coworker said that, by the middle of the game, he had been reduced to an emotional wreck by the events he was playing through. In a good, immersive way, of course. :)

Save the energy put in your marketing incentives to improve the basic game.

Different departments, different focuses. The ME3 development team has worked extremely hard to bring you guys the best "basic game" they can.

The problem with how BW's games are sold is that I have the feeling of not buying a game, but that I am part of your economic equation and that anything goes - from cross product marketing to the collection of unknown data on my computer. If BW/EA wants to get rid of that evil image then they have to clean up their act.

Or... based solely on your wording, you could see that every company everywhere wants to sell you as much as they can. one of the main differences here is that you can actually talk to the people who create the game. :)

#202
Inutaisho7996

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TheRealJayDee wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Advertising is all about making something look or feel more desirable to the casual and average viewer. Fans of Mass Effect can only get more excited about the game, and those who don't know about it will see all these reminders about the game and may become as big a fan as you and your friends


And this is where you are wrong, at least as far as my personal experience goes. I'm noticeably less excited about ME3 than let's say half a year ago, and your marketing and advertising focused more or less completely on the potential new players isn't helping at all.


That's what marketing is for. You don't need to me marketed to. You obviously know about Mass Effect 3.

#203
Almostfaceman

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TheRealJayDee wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Advertising is all about making something look or feel more desirable to the casual and average viewer. Fans of Mass Effect can only get more excited about the game, and those who don't know about it will see all these reminders about the game and may become as big a fan as you and your friends


And this is where you are wrong, at least as far as my personal experience goes. I'm noticeably less excited about ME3 than let's say half a year ago, and your marketing and advertising focused more or less completely on the potential new players isn't helping at all.


Well as the old saying goes, you can't please everyone. B)

#204
KennethAFTopp

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Inutaisho7996 wrote...

TheRealJayDee wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Advertising is all about making something look or feel more desirable to the casual and average viewer. Fans of Mass Effect can only get more excited about the game, and those who don't know about it will see all these reminders about the game and may become as big a fan as you and your friends


And this is where you are wrong, at least as far as my personal experience goes. I'm noticeably less excited about ME3 than let's say half a year ago, and your marketing and advertising focused more or less completely on the potential new players isn't helping at all.


That's what marketing is for. You don't need to me marketed to. You obviously know about Mass Effect 3.

Well He still wants to know what's new and what's changed from previous iterations.

#205
AngryFrozenWater

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You pay for everything. Even for Zaeed. Nobody at BW works for free. It is part of the business plan, so in the end you pay for it.

#206
FFinfinity1

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Stanley Woo wrote...

The Sarendoctrinator wrote...

I guess my reasons for hating the DLC system are different from most of yours... It's not that I mind paying for extra missions. I gladly bought DAO, the Awakening expansion, and the Ultimate Edition just so I could have all of that content. My problem is that DLC is unavailable to me unless it's released later on the game disc, because I don't use an internet connection with my Xbox (or any consoles). I don't even mind waiting a year to play the extras, as long as they're eventually released on a disc the way they were with DAO, but that hasn't happened for Mass Effect.

I get you. I grew up a PC gamer and only got into console gaming in the last 5 years or so. My experiences and tolerances and preferences will be slightly different than yours. :)


Maybe someday down the road Bioware/EA will release some UBER MASSEFFECT EDITION with all 3 games with every DLC released on a few discs. I would buy the hell out of that. I mean honestly if i physically don't have something in my hands or possession then it doesn't feel bought to me.

#207
Raxxman

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atheelogos wrote...

DarkLord_PT wrote...

I just want the option to be able to buy the bloody DLC, and the DLC alone.
Is it too much to ask for the option to buy this DLC separate from the the far too vast myriad of products you're attaching them to? .

Bioware we want to give you money.... why won't u let us?:blink:


This tbh.

#208
Stanley Woo

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FFinfinity1 wrote...

Maybe someday down the road Bioware/EA will release some UBER MASSEFFECT EDITION with all 3 games with every DLC released on a few discs. I would buy the hell out of that. I mean honestly if i physically don't have something in my hands or possession then it doesn't feel bought to me.

Aw man, wouldn't that be cool?

#209
izmirtheastarach

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FFinfinity1 wrote...

Well that was a bad example of a payable DLC but he was suppose to be included in the base game. There making a habbit of this. A better example would be map packs from CoD, Why not include 3-4 extra maps in the original game when you can sell em :P


Except that the way he was provided had a clear purpose, that wasn't really about making money on DLC. As a consumer, I have no objection to this free (but only with new copies) model, because I almost never buy used games.

#210
Ihatebadgames

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atheelogos wrote...

Ihatebadgames wrote...
LotSB took 8-12 hours for me to download.I prefer hard copies.

........ there might be something wrong with your connection lol

Live in the middle of no and where.There are 3rd world countries with better connections than I have.So  I prefer the big Awakening style hard disk packs.

#211
Guest_aLucidMind_*

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AngryFrozenWater wrote...

You pay for everything. Even for Zaeed. Nobody at BW works for free. It is part of the business plan, so in the end you pay for it.

Technically, no. If you bought ME2 new, you got Zaeed and several other DLC free via Cerberus Network.

#212
Almostfaceman

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Stanley Woo wrote...

Done. Based on everything I'm hearing from my coworkers, ME3 is arguably the best story we've yet released. One coworker said that, by the middle of the game, he had been reduced to an emotional wreck by the events he was playing through. In a good, immersive way, of course. :)


Everything you've guys showed me about the game sells me on that notion that this is "the best story we've yet released."  

And I hope (as has been hinted) that there will be post game dlc, and Mass Effect 4, and, yeah... :o

#213
shepskisaac

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FFinfinity1 wrote...

Maybe someday down the road Bioware/EA will release some UBER MASSEFFECT EDITION with all 3 games with every DLC released on a few discs.

After ME2 didn't get a GOTY/Ultimate edition, I'm not so sure about that anymore. But I would buy such edition, if only to have it all on physical format and hopefully easily installed (no more 12 separate installators I already have for ME2 DLC...)

#214
Bendok

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I have no problem with DLCs, what I have a problem with is all this exclusive crap. Order this book from this specific store to get this gun, cause its the only way!

Spend 50 bucks on these action figures so you can get this in-game content!

Pre-order at this one specific retailers so you can get this content!

Buy a case of pop from this retailer and get a in-game helmet!

I think all the content should be available to everyone without having to buy a product that is not the game itself. Sure, make it a freebie if they buy the product but still make it available otherwise. Some people want all the DLC and hate it when they are denied it simply because of where they live or where they shop, or the interest in action figures or apple products.

I don't want to buy this book, or these action figures, so let me spend a dollar and get it instead? Why not? Retailers don't need incentive to carry your product. It's not like they are going to say "Hmm, nope.. unless you give us an exclusive we will NOT be stocking Bioware products because we simply ENJOY losing money to our competitors!!"

Modifié par Bendok, 09 février 2012 - 03:13 .


#215
Ihatebadgames

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Stanley Woo wrote...

FFinfinity1 wrote...

Maybe someday down the road Bioware/EA will release some UBER MASSEFFECT EDITION with all 3 games with every DLC released on a few discs. I would buy the hell out of that. I mean honestly if i physically don't have something in my hands or possession then it doesn't feel bought to me.

Aw man, wouldn't that be cool?

YESImage IPB

#216
AdmiralCheez

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Stanley Woo wrote...

You got me. I think it's pretty snazzy, but not something I'm intrested in getting. :)

So you have NO IDEA why they decided to throw in DLC with that thing?  Kind of a strange place for DLC.  Also, DLC from a book?

Look, if the money you folks got from Barnes&Noble, Apple, GameStop, Kinect, and whomever else honestly helped make the game better and feed the children of the lowly programming peons, I'm cool.  And yes, I totally think everyone should conduct their businesses according to my personal ethical code, because I am obviously super-smart and more important than everyone else here. /self-satirical sarcasm

Sure, but I look at it the same way as looking for a job. Why do you need a resume when your work ethic and dedication and loyalty will stand on its own? Why wear nice clothes to the interview when they have nothing to do with how well you work?

But that's not a fair comparison, is it?  What do you put on your resume?  What you're good at and what you've done well in the past, right?  You don't write on there "hire me AND my best friend here, and you'll get a cool paperweight."  That makes you look desperate.  Or stupid.  Or maybe you were just joking and the human resourcces guy didn't find it all that funny.

All this Happy Meal flash and sparkle is distracting from the real product.  You don't put shiny stickers over your list of contacts, know what I mean?

Advertising is all about making something look or feel more desirable to the casual and average viewer. Fans of Mass Effect can only get more excited about the game, and those who don't know about it will see all these reminders about the game and may become as big a fan as you and your friends. But that initial desire to buy has to come from somewhere, right? Marketing has to contend with a market of millions of potential customers, not just existing fans, those who would probably like Mass Effect anyway, and people who browse game news sites all the time. they've got to reach as many people as they can. that's kinda their job.

Here's the thing though: Spamming people's Facebook walls and waving extra-special preorder content in their faces WON'T get casual players interested.  In fact, that's the very kind of thing I know would turn me off a game.

Seeing Adam Jensen do a backflip over some dudes in a cool sci-fi setting?  Hearing hints about a deep plot involving the very nature of what it means to be human?  Dude, this Deux Ex: HR thing sounds pretty sweet!  Oops, what's that?  Pre-order now from GameStop and get all this extra stuff?  Ugh, whatever.  Killed my interest, right there.

Obviously, I can't speak for every possible new player out there, but I DO know I'm a "casual gamer" myself.  Mass Effect grabbed me and pulled me in harder than any other series, ever.  Because it was interesting.  Because it was different.  Because it was good.

Tell the "new audience" out there about what makes Mass Effect what it is.  If they're interested, they'll buy it.  Love it.  Tell their friends.  Sell the game, and they'll pick up all the goofy merchandise on their own.  Don't shove all the extras in their faces.

After all, this hoodie I'm wearing?  No advertising required, and I didn't get DLC out of it, either.

True. But if that's the case, it's not going to be because people said so, as much as we welcome and appreciate the feedback. It's going to be proven by numbers gathered by a bunch of people whose job it is to analyze those things and report back to us.

Mm, analysts.  Love those guys.  We should talk about histograms some time.

#217
izmirtheastarach

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IsaacShep wrote...

FFinfinity1 wrote...

Maybe someday down the road Bioware/EA will release some UBER MASSEFFECT EDITION with all 3 games with every DLC released on a few discs.

After ME2 didn't get a GOTY/Ultimate edition, I'm not so sure about that anymore. But I would buy such edition, if only to have it all on physical format and hopefully easily installed (no more 12 separate installators I already have for ME2 DLC...)


I get the sentiment, but once you have all the ME2 DLC, you don't really need the installers, and it's not difficult to back the directory up somewhere.

#218
AngryFrozenWater

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aLucidMind wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

You pay for everything. Even for Zaeed. Nobody at BW works for free. It is part of the business plan, so in the end you pay for it.

Technically, no. If you bought ME2 new, you got Zaeed and several other DLC free via Cerberus Network.

Which was created by people on the company's payroll. And these don't work for free. That was planned. It made you feel you got something for free and you fell for it.

#219
atheelogos

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Stanley whats the rationale for not putting out DLC that people, like myself, wouldn't mind buying?

Sometimes I don't want a bunch of extra stuff attached to my dlc. I just want the dlc without the toy ships cloth patches ect....

I can't get the N7 stuff cuz I waited too long to grab the collectors edition, but I would like to pay for it later.

Why can't we do that?

Modifié par atheelogos, 09 février 2012 - 03:20 .


#220
shepskisaac

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izmirtheastarach wrote...

I get the sentiment, but once you have all the ME2 DLC, you don't really need the installers, and it's not difficult to back the directory up somewhere.

Yeah but each time you install the game you need to run all 12 of them lol. And I just have 12 since I only got the free stuff and 4 major DLCs. People who bought all the weapons, skins, and also have pre-order bonuses and/or Collector Edition have like 20+ separate installers. It's just ridiculous. I wish BW released a simple one-click installator for all this stuff.

#221
The Sarendoctrinator

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Stanley Woo wrote...

FFinfinity1 wrote...

Maybe someday down the road Bioware/EA will release some UBER MASSEFFECT EDITION with all 3 games with every DLC released on a few discs. I would buy the hell out of that. I mean honestly if i physically don't have something in my hands or possession then it doesn't feel bought to me.

Aw man, wouldn't that be cool?

It would be! :D I'd really like to have this, and I'm sure a lot of fans both new and old would too.

#222
TheJiveDJ

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Stanley Woo wrote...

The Sarendoctrinator wrote...

I guess my reasons for hating the DLC system are different from most of yours... It's not that I mind paying for extra missions. I gladly bought DAO, the Awakening expansion, and the Ultimate Edition just so I could have all of that content. My problem is that DLC is unavailable to me unless it's released later on the game disc, because I don't use an internet connection with my Xbox (or any consoles). I don't even mind waiting a year to play the extras, as long as they're eventually released on a disc the way they were with DAO, but that hasn't happened for Mass Effect.

I get you. I grew up a PC gamer and only got into console gaming in the last 5 years or so. My experiences and tolerances and preferences will be slightly different than yours. :)


Mr. Woo I think you a very smart individual overall and I agree with the the fact that all this stuff is "just a bonus".  No one is forcing any of this on us, we get it.  I get it and I will most likely be buying some of this extra content.  I think however, one major point you are missing in regard to aggressive DLC campaigns is market oversaturation. 

I get it, your line of work is BioWare, not the entire videogame industry.  However, I think videogame publishers (yes I know BW isn't a publisher) need to start looking at the bigger picture sooner or later and this begins by looking inward.  What are publishers doing to contribute to the problem?  There is simply way too much garbage out there now.  Not saying BioWare specifically is putting out garbage, but imo when there is oversaturation in superfluous markets (luxuries, entertainment), said market is inevitably bound to crash one way or another. 

Consumers become over stimulated essentially, and do not know what to buy, or where to spend their money.  The same thing happened in '83 and I think we are heading in that direction again especially considering the current state of the world economy.  Publishers really need to re-evaluate how they are marketing their games, and how much they are willing to exploit their IP's.  Hyper-exploitation is becoming, and currently is terribly rampant; I believe it will harm the industry substantially.  Thoughts?

Modifié par TheJiveDJ, 09 février 2012 - 03:23 .


#223
Guest_aLucidMind_*

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AngryFrozenWater wrote...

aLucidMind wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

You pay for everything. Even for Zaeed. Nobody at BW works for free. It is part of the business plan, so in the end you pay for it.

Technically, no. If you bought ME2 new, you got Zaeed and several other DLC free via Cerberus Network.

Which was created by people on the company's payroll. And these don't work for free. That was planned. It made you feel you got something for free and you fell for it.

Hardly; I was buying ME2 because of ME2. I didn't care about the DLC and, thus, saw it for what it was: bonus content. All games cost $60, the DLC cost me nothing and  the price stayed at $60; kind of hard to say that isn't free. The only people who had to pay for it were those who bought the game used.

#224
jeweledleah

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my problem with DLC's is that they are essentially mini expansions... except bioware DLC"s never go on sale, like other company's DLC's do, especially if they are sold on steam. main game eventually goes on sale. expansions that are branded as such - go on sale. DLC's? stay the same price forever, at least if you are a PC gamer. I actually payed more for a single story dlc, then I did for a copy of Mass Effect 1 OR 2. that's just not right.

#225
Atmosfear3

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AdmiralCheez wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

You got me. I think it's pretty snazzy, but not something I'm intrested in getting. :)

So you have NO IDEA why they decided to throw in DLC with that thing?  Kind of a strange place for DLC.  Also, DLC from a book?

Look, if the money you folks got from Barnes&Noble, Apple, GameStop, Kinect, and whomever else honestly helped make the game better and feed the children of the lowly programming peons, I'm cool.  And yes, I totally think everyone should conduct their businesses according to my personal ethical code, because I am obviously super-smart and more important than everyone else here. /self-satirical sarcasm

Sure, but I look at it the same way as looking for a job. Why do you need a resume when your work ethic and dedication and loyalty will stand on its own? Why wear nice clothes to the interview when they have nothing to do with how well you work?

But that's not a fair comparison, is it?  What do you put on your resume?  What you're good at and what you've done well in the past, right?  You don't write on there "hire me AND my best friend here, and you'll get a cool paperweight."  That makes you look desperate.  Or stupid.  Or maybe you were just joking and the human resourcces guy didn't find it all that funny.

All this Happy Meal flash and sparkle is distracting from the real product.  You don't put shiny stickers over your list of contacts, know what I mean?

Advertising is all about making something look or feel more desirable to the casual and average viewer. Fans of Mass Effect can only get more excited about the game, and those who don't know about it will see all these reminders about the game and may become as big a fan as you and your friends. But that initial desire to buy has to come from somewhere, right? Marketing has to contend with a market of millions of potential customers, not just existing fans, those who would probably like Mass Effect anyway, and people who browse game news sites all the time. they've got to reach as many people as they can. that's kinda their job.

Here's the thing though: Spamming people's Facebook walls and waving extra-special preorder content in their faces WON'T get casual players interested.  In fact, that's the very kind of thing I know would turn me off a game.

Seeing Adam Jensen do a backflip over some dudes in a cool sci-fi setting?  Hearing hints about a deep plot involving the very nature of what it means to be human?  Dude, this Deux Ex: HR thing sounds pretty sweet!  Oops, what's that?  Pre-order now from GameStop and get all this extra stuff?  Ugh, whatever.  Killed my interest, right there.

Obviously, I can't speak for every possible new player out there, but I DO know I'm a "casual gamer" myself.  Mass Effect grabbed me and pulled me in harder than any other series, ever.  Because it was interesting.  Because it was different.  Because it was good.

Tell the "new audience" out there about what makes Mass Effect what it is.  If they're interested, they'll buy it.  Love it.  Tell their friends.  Sell the game, and they'll pick up all the goofy merchandise on their own.  Don't shove all the extras in their faces.

After all, this hoodie I'm wearing?  No advertising required, and I didn't get DLC out of it, either.

True. But if that's the case, it's not going to be because people said so, as much as we welcome and appreciate the feedback. It's going to be proven by numbers gathered by a bunch of people whose job it is to analyze those things and report back to us.

Mm, analysts.  Love those guys.  We should talk about histograms some time.


Agreed with everything ^

I miss the days where games were sold as is and they stood on their own feet. They didn't need little marketing schemes to try to sell it to the customers. These days, I'm actually rather appreciative of companies like Blizzard where I actually get a  full, complete product without extraneous bells, whistles, confetti, and sparklers to get me to drop my cash. Maybe if most games weren't such shovelware these days, consumers might be more willing to actually spend their money. They could put their marketing budgets towards you know, making a quality game! WHAT A CONCEPT RIGHT?!