144 réponses à ce sujet

[GodWood]

Hunter of Legends wrote...
No, he goes around spoiling the game for others and being the definition of a jackass. The fact you try to defend him puts your credibility down.

Oh dear.

And yes, have you actually read and understood it?

Yup. Saw lots of railroading, decisons being nullified and repeated hurr you should've [insert paragon choice].

Yuoaman wrote...
They favor the cats.

That's who is favored.

B.S

Paragons would be dogs. Renegades would be cats.

[GodWood]

nevar00 wrote...
Um... it doesn't favor paragons?

It does. Paragon always turns out right and gets more content, renegade always turns out inferior and gets less content.

Or do you mean a lack of content? Well obviously, if you run around killing everyone, it would only make sense that they would not show up later.

Hurr hurr hurr.

Why not have someone else show up ? Lets say a renegade kills Fist. Well then his son could come up and try to assassinate you.

That's content reflecting your past actions. Something this franchise was designed to do.

[nevar00]

Medhia Nox wrote...

It's interesting... one of Vigils main comments is that the Protheans were defeated because their seat of government was toppled.

I think Bioware favored DA destroyers (more than likely Renegades of some shade) by simply saying - "Oh, yeah - well the galaxy spanning uber powerful Protheans were toppled... but not you humans! You hold it together! Yeah you!"

The galaxy should have descended into utter anarchy - especially with no real reason (the Reapers) to be unified.

Exactly.  There are a lot of "bad" choices that really make absolutely no sense, but replacing the council with an entire human one is the most unrealistic choice in the entire game.  If you did that you should've awoken 2 years later to find out humanity was destroyed and relegated to a lower class than Quarians.

But really this game isn't about logical choices anyway.  Most choices and conversations range between an  obnoxious suck up or randomly evil.  And the 'neutral' choice usually makes you sound like a dolt.

[Hunter of Legends]

GodWood wrote...

Oh dear.

Yup. Saw lots of railroading, decisons being nullified and repeated hurr you should've [insert paragon choice].

Oh dear what? Don't try to deny he does that stuff.

I saw some railroading; really nothing different from ME2. If anything there is less railroading IMHO.

[nevar00]

GodWood wrote...

nevar00 wrote...
Um... it doesn't favor paragons?

It does. Paragon always turns out right and gets more content, renegade always turns out inferior and gets less content.

Or do you mean a lack of content? Well obviously, if you run around killing everyone, it would only make sense that they would not show up later.

Hurr hurr hurr.

Why not have someone else show up ? Lets say a renegade kills Fist. Well then his son could come up and try to assassinate you.

That's content reflecting your past actions. Something this franchise was designed to do.

That would be nice.  That's a big problem I have with Skyrim actually, although it's for the "good guy" choices.  For example: the theives guild.  Why can you only ignore it at best, why is there no option to take them down?  At least most of the Mass Effect choices have some sense of closure, even if it seems like one side may get more content.

[GodWood]

nevar00 wrote...
Exactly.  There are a lot of "bad" choices that really make absolutely no sense, but replacing the council with an entire human one is the most unrealistic choice in the entire game.

And it never happens.

It's human led, not human only. 

If you did that you should've awoken 2 years later to find out humanity was destroyed and relegated to a lower class than Quarians.

The turian fleet was weakened, the human fleet was not.

There is also all the politiking to take into account.

[LiquidLogic2020]

I just hate how paragon and renegade equate to simply good and evil, it should be more along the lines of the paragon being very conventional and by the books following proceeder ect. Whereas renegade should be more getting the mission done no matter what, be it breaking laws or torturing someone for information. You know, following the actual meaning of the word(s). I hope they scrap ME2 system in which if you didn't go full paragon or full renegade you were screwed, sure ME1's way of doing it wasn't perfect but at least I could have say paragon at 75% and renegade at 100%. That way you could actually respond to a situation properly instead of "I would love to help you, but sadly Im trying to play a renegade character right now and if I do help you I won't be able to stop my petty crew from bickering and they will all die".

[Zu Long]

GodWood wrote...

Zu Long wrote...

GodWood wrote...
Look at the second post. That's how it always starts.

*Looks*

A statement of exasperation that this same topic is being brought up for the 1000000th time? That seems about right.

You consider the open post the first post? I thought it went: Open post, 1st post, second post etc.

Okay then third post.

Also it's natural this would be brought up frequently. It's a problem in the ME series that many take issue with, unfortunately Bioware doesn't seem to care.

He called you guys the Cerberus Defense Squad. It's like if you called the Paragons the Alliance Way Defenders. It's not even an insult.

As far as Bioware caring, first, what makes you think they don't care? Second, if the point is to influence the 3rd game, isn't it a bit late for that ship? They've basically finished it and it's not going to change. All we can do now is wait and see what's in the third game, so why keep making the topics?

[GodWood]

nevar00 wrote...
That would be nice. That's a big problem I have with Skyrim actually, although it's for the "good guy" choices. For example: the theives guild. Why can you only ignore it at best, why is there no option to take them down? At least most of the Mass Effect choices have some sense of closure, even if it seems like one side may get more content.

The fact that you could take down the Dark Brotherhood was a nice touch.

Overall though can't say I was a fan of the game though.

Hunter of Legends wrote...
Oh dear what?

Oh dear my rep has gone down.

I saw some railroading; really nothing different from ME2. If anything there is less railroading IMHO.

Hmm, significant railroadings in ME2:

- Working with Cerberus.
- Horizon.
- The final talk with TIM.

I can't certainly think of more (and worse) instances in ME3.

[nevar00]

GodWood wrote...

nevar00 wrote...
Exactly.  There are a lot of "bad" choices that really make absolutely no sense, but replacing the council with an entire human one is the most unrealistic choice in the entire game.

And it never happens.

It's human led, not human only. 

If you did that you should've awoken 2 years later to find out humanity was destroyed and relegated to a lower class than Quarians.

The turian fleet was weakened, the human fleet was not.

There is also all the politiking to take into account.

Well yes human led, but even so the Asari, Turians, and even the Salarians don't seem like the types who would just stand aside and led humans take over everything.  You can mention politiking, but just about everyone is already wrapped up with the big 3: the Volus are with the Turians, the Elcor are with the Asari... the others I can't imagine would change much.

The Turian fleet getting smashed is true, but the human fleet didn't get completely unscathed either.  Even with that in consideration I don't think it's too far fetched to assume everyone else combined could quite easily smash our defenses.  Even if it wasn't an all-out war, the Volus with all their economic influences could've completely crippled us.  It's just really hard to believe that there are very little consequences for this within the 2 years Shepard's out.  There are a lot of options in this game that really don't have a logical option (the Rachni Queen, for example) but this one has always stood out as being exceptionally hard to believe.

[Blacklash93]

I'm not going to deny that these types are kind of being buzzkillingtons for an entire demographic of unspoiled people having fun anticipating this game.

If you think everyone is going to be disappointed, then let them be disappointed when the game comes out. There's no need to tell them what to expect when they shouldn't be knowing in the first place. They want to SPECULATE and I don't see these types respecting that.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 09 février 2012 - 05:15 .

[GodWood]

Zu Long wrote...
He called you guys the Cerberus Defense Squad. It's like if you called the Paragons the Alliance Way Defenders. It's not even an insult.

It's a constant dismissal repeated again and again to invalidate the concerns of renegade players. It's quite annoying and blatantly hostile.

As far as Bioware caring, first, what makes you think they don't care?

The fact that it has never been addressed and the fact that they ignored our concerns (that many have been saying for 2 years now) and through us under the bus anyway.

Second, if the point is to influence the 3rd game, isn't it a bit late for that ship?

Been doing it for a while now. Besides, most of the topics on here are redundant. 

so why keep making the topics?

I believe the OP is new and unaware.

Or, this is just flamebait.

[GodWood]

nevar00 wrote...
Well yes human led, but even so the Asari, Turians, and even the Salarians don't seem like the types who would just stand aside and led humans take over everything.

And that's why tensions were brewing and a 'cold war' of sorts was forming. Yes it makes for an unstable galaxy but it also creates more ships to combat the reapers with.

That's morally grey, a combination of postive and negative consequences AND an exciting setting.

You can mention politiking, but just about everyone is already wrapped up with the big 3: the Volus are with the Turians,

The volus are under the iron clutch of the turians yes, but humans are actively seeking relations with them and provding them with homeworld's the regular council wouldn't part with.

They're drifting away. 

the Elcor are with the Asari...

I've never heard that. The elcor are quite indifferent to intergalactic affairs.

[nevar00]

GodWood wrote...

nevar00 wrote...
That would be nice. That's a big problem I have with Skyrim actually, although it's for the "good guy" choices. For example: the theives guild. Why can you only ignore it at best, why is there no option to take them down? At least most of the Mass Effect choices have some sense of closure, even if it seems like one side may get more content.

The fact that you could take down the Dark Brotherhood was a nice touch.

Overall though can't say I was a fan of the game though.

Agreed, and although you don't get the same amount of content compared to if you had joined them, it at least had some closure, which is more than I can say for many other missions.  I can even think of a couple that didn't have an "evil" option out.  For games that brag about being all about choices, it'd be nice if there were a few more... choices. 

I'm just worried that some of the more minor choices from Mass Effect 2 and especially 1 will never be revisited in ME 3.  For example I remember the little side mission in ME1 where you get to choose whether or not a pregnant woman took a potentially dangerous test for her child.  It would be nice to find out what happened there.  I know this one is neutral, but paragon or renegade in general, I just hope we have a lot more consequences for more of our actions than we had in ME2.

[Hunter of Legends]

GodWood wrote...

nevar00 wrote...
That would be nice. That's a big problem I have with Skyrim actually, although it's for the "good guy" choices. For example: the theives guild. Why can you only ignore it at best, why is there no option to take them down? At least most of the Mass Effect choices have some sense of closure, even if it seems like one side may get more content.

The fact that you could take down the Dark Brotherhood was a nice touch.

Overall though can't say I was a fan of the game though.

Hunter of Legends wrote...
Oh dear what?

Oh dear my rep has gone down.

I saw some railroading; really nothing different from ME2. If anything there is less railroading IMHO.

Hmm, significant railroadings in ME2:

- Working with Cerberus.
- Horizon.
- The final talk with TIM.

I can't certainly think of more (and worse) instances in ME3.

You left out
-Council's relations with you
-Humanities role in the galaxy
-Having to like all your crew (you were friends with them regardless)
-Numerous others I can't think of right now plus ME1 railroads and minor things

[Hunter of Legends]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

I saw some railroading; really nothing different from ME2. If anything there is less railroading IMHO.

The rail roading in ME3 is at least on the same level as ME2. There might be even more of it, but certainly not less.

This is a bad thing.

The solution to railroading in ME2 was not more railroading in ME3.

Zu Long wrote...

He called you guys the Cerberus Defense
Squad. It's like if you called the Paragons the Alliance Way Defenders.
It's not even an insult.

Make no mistake he and his ilk mean it in a derogatory way, but I take pride in being despised for my opinions as it is just further evidence of how exclusive they are.

I don't use it in a derogatory way.

Doesn't change the fact you are a jerk.

[Blacklash93]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

I saw some railroading; really nothing different from ME2. If anything there is less railroading IMHO.

The rail roading in ME3 is at least on the same level as ME2. There might be even more of it, but certainly not less.

This is a bad thing.

The solution to railroading in ME2 was not more railroading in ME3.

The debate isn't whether or not it is a missed opportunity for the series; it is.

The issue for me is whether or not it's understandable. In a 2-year development cycle developing for 3 platforms I think it is.

And for the love of God don't bring up spoilers here. I know you like being a douche and doing that, but please don't.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 09 février 2012 - 05:16 .

[Hunter of Legends]

Blacklash93 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

I saw some railroading; really nothing different from ME2. If anything there is less railroading IMHO.

The rail roading in ME3 is at least on the same level as ME2. There might be even more of it, but certainly not less.

This is a bad thing.

The solution to railroading in ME2 was not more railroading in ME3.

The debate isn't whether or not it is a missed opportunity for the series; it is.

The issue for me is whether or not it's understandable. In a 2-year development cycle developing for 3 platforms I think it is.

And for the love of God don't bring up spoilers here. I know you like being a douche and doing that, but please don't.

Not to mention the sheer number of variables.

"Bad" ending is highly subjective.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

The fact that almost 3 pages of constant debate without a single person pointing out an up-side to a Renegade choice says everything...

To answer the OP:

Will a Renegade choice ever turn out better than the Paragon alternative in Mass Effect 3? Highly unlikely.

Does the series favor Paragon choices (regardless of situation/choice/stakes):  Yes, without question.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 09 février 2012 - 05:22 .

[GodWood]

nevar00 wrote...
For example I remember the little side mission in ME1 where you get to choose whether or not a pregnant woman took a potentially dangerous test for her child.

If you advocated for the child not to get the treatment it's a healthy baby and you see the couple discussing whether they should get treatments. The woman asks the man's opinion and he replies "whatever you think is best".

If you get them to get the treatment the baby is healthy and they're actively looking for more improvements Gattaca style.

Personally I would have had one of the options completely **** up. But that's just me.

Hunter of Legends wrote...
You left out
-Council's relations with you

More of an idiot-ball-syndrome then railroading but I'll pay it.

-Humanities role in the galaxy

Elaborate

-Having to like all your crew (you were friends with them regardless)

Mostly true (and by god do I hate it)

[Hunter of Legends]

GodWood wrote...

-Humanities role in the galaxy

Elaborate

Humans are punching bags regardless of paragon or renegade. It's just wether or not they like you or hate you. They still treat you poorly in my eyes regardless.

Now, all of these railroads can be justified/logical proven save having to be friends with everyone. They say they fixed this in ME3 and from what I can see they did.

Modifié par Hunter of Legends, 09 février 2012 - 05:29 .

[Zu Long]

GodWood wrote...

]It's a constant dismissal repeated again and again to invalidate the concerns of renegade players. It's quite annoying and blatantly hostile.

Or it's a short way of tagging the people who inevitably show up in these topics to argue the renegade side. If that's all it takes to be annoying and hostile to you, Hunters right, you really haven't been reading some of your own sides posts very closely.

As far as dismissing the concerns of the renegades, eh. There are some cases where you can argue Bioware could have put something else in, but I kind of like the symbolism of the galaxy being an emptier place when you kill everyone you're possibly allowed to.

The fact that it has never been addressed and the fact that they ignored our concerns (that many have been saying for 2 years now) and through us under the bus anyway.

Assuming you're talking about the leaked script, are you sure it's not confirmation bias? I haven't read it, but one thing I've noticed is that it confirmed the worst fears of everyone who posted about how they were certain ME3 would do something horrible in their eyes. The Deus Ex Machina people claimed DEM, the Death to Liara people claim her plot armor is still in force...so are you really absolutely sure that the Paragons get a massive advantage over the renegades in terms of War Assets, or is Hunter correct and both sides have a path to victory?

Besides, most of the topics on here are redundant.

Touche.

[G3rman]

All you people who can only scrounge at your ideas of how Renegades and Paragon decisions should affect the world are really pitiful. Can you think of anything better to argue about? You know, something that actually will see benefit?

Neither side is going to win, either be satisfied with BioWare and play the game or don't buy it and quit trolling. Complaining this late will net you nothing but ulcers.