144 réponses à ce sujet

[Hunter of Legends]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

The debate isn't whether or not it is a missed opportunity for the series; it is.

The issue for me is whether or not it's understandable. In a 2-year development cycle developing for 3 platforms I think it is.

I don't and never have expected total freedom or for choices to change the game in radical ways. However I do think it is reasonable to expect more than we are getting or have gotten.

I don't.

be thankful they even make these games. This is one of the worst fan communities I've seen and I come from the ESPN one!

[KotorEffect3]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

I saw some railroading; really nothing different from ME2. If anything there is less railroading IMHO.

The rail roading in ME3 is at least on the same level as ME2. There might be even more of it, but certainly not less.

This is a bad thing.

The solution to railroading in ME2 was not more railroading in ME3.

Zu Long wrote...

He called you guys the Cerberus Defense
Squad. It's like if you called the Paragons the Alliance Way Defenders.
It's not even an insult.

Make no mistake he and his ilk mean it in a derogatory way, but I take pride in being despised for my opinions as it is just further evidence of how exclusive they are.

It isn't your opinion that pisses people off.  It is your overall attitude and arrogance.  Not to mention you have posted spoilers deliberatly just to be a jackass.  I could care less about the fact that you play renegade.

[Hunter of Legends]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

I saw some railroading; really nothing different from ME2. If anything there is less railroading IMHO.

The rail roading in ME3 is at least on the same level as ME2. There might be even more of it, but certainly not less.

This is a bad thing.

The solution to railroading in ME2 was not more railroading in ME3.

Zu Long wrote...

He called you guys the Cerberus Defense
Squad. It's like if you called the Paragons the Alliance Way Defenders.
It's not even an insult.

Make no mistake he and his ilk mean it in a derogatory way, but I take pride in being despised for my opinions as it is just further evidence of how exclusive they are.

It isn't your opinion that pisses people off.  It is your overall attitude and arrogance.  Not to mention you have posted spoilers deliberatly just to be a jackass.  I could care less about the fact that you play renegade.

Pretty much this.

[JBONE27]

xnoxiousx wrote...

 1. If you let council die humans will be hated more by other races.
2. If you let rachni queen die she wont help you which she seems to say she will in me3.
3. Wrex death will make it harder get krogan on your side.


My point 
Name one choice that looks like it will turn out better for rengades.

1. True, but maybe the quarians and krogan will like you more.
2. True, but that also means she and her children cannot be taken over by the reapers and attack you (which has also been aluded to).
3. False (sort of), while your premis is true (killing Wrex equals krogan hate), you can save Wrex through intimidation, so it's not a paragon vs renegade.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

G3rman wrote...

All you people who can only scrounge at your ideas of how Renegades and Paragon decisions should affect the world are really pitiful. Can you think of anything better to argue about? You know, something that actually will see benefit?

Complaints tend to take a long time to reach influential ears.  Up to two game's worth of complaining brought about a FemShep cover in Mass Effect 3.  Up to two game's worth of complaining brought about s/s romance options in Mass Effect 3 (even if I personally don't care for it).  Instant complaining brought about a change in FemShep's hair color... and possibly even Ashley's armor in Mass Effect 3.


Point being... complaining is not for changes to this game (not at this stage)... it's a complaint over a choice-driven system bias that players don't want to see again.  It's never been a deal-breaker issue (for Mass Effect 3) as far as I'm concerned (but it would potentially hamper any new series/sequel effort they started).  Regardless, it's still something I wouldn't want to see them do again.  I like having actual uncertainty in my choices (with regards to what will bring about the most positive results)... to each their own.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 09 février 2012 - 06:14 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Saying "Be thankful and stop bringing up issues" is taking your fandom way too far. No one is above critique.

[Hunter of Legends]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Saying "Be thankful and stop bringing up issues" is taking your fandom way too far. No one is above critique.

The amount of petty ****ing and complaing some of you do is absolutely hilarious and sad at the same time.

[Hunter of Legends]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

I don't.

be thankful they even make these games. This is one of the worst fan communities I've seen and I come from the ESPN one!

"Be thankful"? For what? Bioware isn't a charity. They don't give me these games for free. If I was recieving Mass Effect without having to pay for it then I'd be grateful. However I am buying a product and as a consumer I owe Bioware nothing. I don't owe them thanks, I don't owe them loyalty.

True.

You can however recongnize for the time being Bioware is one of the view that still LISTEN to the community.

[Hunter of Legends]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

You can however recongnize for the time being Bioware is one of the view that still LISTEN to the community.

Yeah, they do listen, and they listen way too much in my opinion. It compromises the integrity of the IP if it does nothing but pander to the loudest voices.

There is a balance to be met but Bioware goes way too far.

I'd rather they listen then shaft the entire communtiy and pander to the fairweather fans.

Go ahead, ask any CoD 1/classic or CoD 4/MW1 fan how well Infinity Ward has treated the fans.

Go ahead.

[Hunter of Legends]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

I'd rather they listen then shaft the entire communtiy...

They can do what they will with the rest of the community. I've already been shafted.

That's a fine attitude you have there.

I'd say I pity you but when you act like a spoiled child I don't really care.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Saying "Be thankful and stop bringing up issues" is taking your fandom way too far. No one is above critique.

The amount of petty ****ing and complaing some of you do is absolutely hilarious and sad at the same time.

This is BSN, so there are some petty complaints for sure... but a choice-driven game that has one type of choice exclusively and consistently work out better than all others is a legitimate issue.

Some would prefer not knowing that a Paragon choice isn't a "best outcome you can get" button... such a thing would provide an even more interesting narrative, where the best outcome could come from any given choice... and is based on circumstance more than personal ideology.

[KotorEffect3]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

I'd rather they listen then shaft the entire communtiy...

They can do what they will with the rest of the community; I've already been shafted.

So because you didn't get what you envisioned in your head you decide to throw a temper tantrum and post spoilers?  Real mature.

[Hunter of Legends]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Saying "Be thankful and stop bringing up issues" is taking your fandom way too far. No one is above critique.

The amount of petty ****ing and complaing some of you do is absolutely hilarious and sad at the same time.

This is BSN, so there are some petty complaints for sure... but a choice-driven game that has one type of choice exclusively and consistently work out better than all others is a legitimate issue.

Some would prefer not knowing that a Paragon choice isn't a "best outcome you can get" button... such a thing would provide an even more interesting narrative, where the best outcome could come from any given choice... and is based on circumstance more than personal ideology.

I just played a full renegade and looked at the spoilers and can already tell you that the amount of "NOT FAIR CHOICE" complaining going on right now is petty and spiteful.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Hunter of Legends wrote...
I just played a full renegade and looked at the spoilers and can already tell you that the amount of "NOT FAIR CHOICE" complaining going on right now is petty and spiteful.

Without spoiling anything, you tell me.  Is there ever a time where a non-Paragon choice yields the best/most positive results in Mass Effect 3?

[Golden Owl]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Saying "Be thankful and stop bringing up issues" is taking your fandom way too far. No one is above critique.

The amount of petty ****ing and complaing some of you do is absolutely hilarious and sad at the same time.

This is BSN, so there are some petty complaints for sure... but a choice-driven game that has one type of choice exclusively and consistently work out better than all others is a legitimate issue.

Some would prefer not knowing that a Paragon choice isn't a "best outcome you can get" button... such a thing would provide an even more interesting narrative, where the best outcome could come from any given choice... and is based on circumstance more than personal ideology.

Very well said and the game would be much more realistic with a more mixed bag of outcomes.

[Hunter of Legends]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...
I just played a full renegade and looked at the spoilers and can already tell you that the amount of "NOT FAIR CHOICE" complaining going on right now is petty and spiteful.

Without spoiling anything, you tell me.  Is there ever a time where a non-Paragon choice yields the best/most positive results in Mass Effect 3?

Yes, considering "best" is subjective. One such instance is youknowwho from ME1. Continuing along the paragon support path "doesn't" yield the best results as it will cost your aliance with the related race or at least strain it from what I coud understand.

Now, if we're talking "golden" ending no.

But this is the same formula we've seen since ME1. The "golden" ending for ME1 wasn't attainable without a final Paragon decision. You could still be full renegade and make that "one choice" and still maintain a similar idealogy. My Renegon is one such playthrough.

As I've said before...ME 3 is about making sacrifices.

Paragons sacrifice characters they love and care for. Renegades will have to sacrifice being ruthless and their idealogy. I think so far with this assessment it works quite well.

Modifié par Hunter of Legends, 09 février 2012 - 06:40 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Last question for you then Hunter, which major Renegade decision(s) in Mass Effect 1 or 2 did you feel subjectively provided the "best" outcome over its alternatives?

[SirEtchwart]

I think Bioware looks at the matter of choice in Mass Effect differently than anyone else does.


We see it as "Paragon gets this, Renegade doesn't". They see it as "This choice leads to this which in turn benefits the player here". I don't think we're SUPPOSED to be full Renegade or Paragon just for the sake of being full Renegade or Paragon. We're supposed to play Mass Effect and make decisions based on how we feel. In that case, it's less about how we're rewarded and more about how the universe is affected.

[GodWood]

Hunter of Legends wrote...
Paragons sacrifice characters they love and care for. Renegades will have to sacrifice being ruthless and their idealogy. I think so far with this assessment it works quite well.

Except this isn't how it turns out at all and nor does your 'assessment' make any sense.

If the renegade 'sacrifice' is no longer following their ideology they'd be making 'paragon' decisions and thus taking all the losses the paragon gets as well.

Anyways, like I said your assessment isn't even how it plays out. Pure paragon = best outcome. Renegade = worst with constant heckling from the game itself.

Any 'sacrifices' a paragon makes a renegade makes too (just with extra **** added on top)

[Golden Owl]

SirEtchwart wrote...

I think Bioware looks at the matter of choice in Mass Effect differently than anyone else does.


We see it as "Paragon gets this, Renegade doesn't". They see it as "This choice leads to this which in turn benefits the player here". I don't think we're SUPPOSED to be full Renegade or Paragon just for the sake of being full Renegade or Paragon. We're supposed to play Mass Effect and make decisions based on how we feel. In that case, it's less about how we're rewarded and more about how the universe is affected.

The problem with that in ME2 was the ridiculous juggling act that had to be preformed by the Paragade/Renagon player if you wanted a specific red/blue talkjitsu option opened to you.

[SirEtchwart]

Golden Owl wrote...

SirEtchwart wrote...

I think Bioware looks at the matter of choice in Mass Effect differently than anyone else does.


We see it as "Paragon gets this, Renegade doesn't". They see it as "This choice leads to this which in turn benefits the player here". I don't think we're SUPPOSED to be full Renegade or Paragon just for the sake of being full Renegade or Paragon. We're supposed to play Mass Effect and make decisions based on how we feel. In that case, it's less about how we're rewarded and more about how the universe is affected.

The problem with that in ME2 was the ridiculous juggling act that had to be preformed by the Paragade/Renagon player if you wanted a specific red/blue talkjitsu option opened to you.

I was thinking about that too, and you're absolutely correct. That juggle was ridiculously bad compared to ME1, when the red/blue options were attributed to a skill. While I doubt they're bringing that system back in ME3, surely they're addressing the complaints about ME2's system.

[GodWood]

Casey Hudson has said it's best to 'stick to your morality'.

So no, no they haven't.