144 réponses à ce sujet

[SirEtchwart]

GodWood wrote...

Casey Hudson has said it's best to 'stick to your morality'.

So no, no they haven't.

Well, crap.


Though to be honest, I'm not horribly concerned about it. At the end of the day, I'm going to suffer for some decisions I've made, like destroying the Collector Base (just as an example). That's just the way the game goes.

[Golden Owl]

SirEtchwart wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

SirEtchwart wrote...

I think Bioware looks at the matter of choice in Mass Effect differently than anyone else does.


We see it as "Paragon gets this, Renegade doesn't". They see it as "This choice leads to this which in turn benefits the player here". I don't think we're SUPPOSED to be full Renegade or Paragon just for the sake of being full Renegade or Paragon. We're supposed to play Mass Effect and make decisions based on how we feel. In that case, it's less about how we're rewarded and more about how the universe is affected.

The problem with that in ME2 was the ridiculous juggling act that had to be preformed by the Paragade/Renagon player if you wanted a specific red/blue talkjitsu option opened to you.

I was thinking about that too, and you're absolutely correct. That juggle was ridiculously bad compared to ME1, when the red/blue options were attributed to a skill. While I doubt they're bringing that system back in ME3, surely they're addressing the complaints about ME2's system.

I hope they are...I found it quite immersion breaking, very limiting...where as ME1 I had no trouble....always leveled the ME1 Sheps out to 60....that's two runs....I found I could play as I wished on the to be transferred runs...but ME2 allows no such option.

[Golden Owl]

GodWood wrote...

Casey Hudson has said it's best to 'stick to your morality'.

So no, no they haven't.

Hmmm...that is not good news...where does that leave the Paragades/Renegons I wonder, especially those closest to the grey middle zones.....BW really does need to rethink that system.

[Hunter of Legends]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Last question for you then Hunter, which major Renegade decision(s) in Mass Effect 1 or 2 did you feel subjectively provided the "best" outcome over its alternatives?

Killing the Heretic Geth and killing the Rachni.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Last question for you then Hunter, which major Renegade decision(s) in Mass Effect 1 or 2 did you feel subjectively provided the "best" outcome over its alternatives?

Killing the Heretic Geth and killing the Rachni.

Part of that question wanted an explanation 

What benefits do you think you got from that (that's superior to the Paragon alternative)?  To test things by fire a little bit...


Killing the Heretic Geth seems viable only if you intend to destroy all Geth... because they're all programs susceptible to that allegiance change if no consensus is properly reached (or if the consensus is to be a heretic).

Killing the Rachni leaves you a legion short of an avowed ally (atleast as far as ME2 went).  If some get indoctrinated again in ME3, it's not really something that could be faulted against them... as every species is getting indoctrinated.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 09 février 2012 - 08:00 .

[ObserverStatus]

xnoxiousx wrote...
2. If you let rachni queen die she wont help you which she seems to say she will in me3.
My point 
Name one choice that looks like it will turn out better for rengades.

She's lying.  Renegade Shepards wont get their souls erased like that one poor Asari Shepard met on Illium.

[Hunter of Legends]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Last question for you then Hunter, which major Renegade decision(s) in Mass Effect 1 or 2 did you feel subjectively provided the "best" outcome over its alternatives?

Killing the Heretic Geth and killing the Rachni.

Part of that question wanted an explanation 

What benefits do you think you got from that (that's superior to the Paragon alternative)?  To test things by fire a little bit...


Killing the Heretic Geth seems viable only if you intend to destroy all Geth... because they're all programs susceptible to tthat change if no consensus is properly reached.

Killing the Rachni leaves you a legion short of an avowed ally (atleast as far as ME2 went).  If some get indoctrinated again in ME3, it's not really something that could be faulted against them... as every species is getting indoctrinated.

-The geht virus may not work and i'd rather not risk it.

-The rachni could still have the taint of indoctrination in them. Remember, they have previous generations "memories".

Indoctrination might come with that.

[KotorEffect3]

At this point arguing that one side gets favorable treatment over another is kind of a futile exercise because either it can be speculated based off of past games or people start getting into spoilers. This is the kind of conversation that could be had in about a month.

[Hunter of Legends]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

At this point arguing that one side gets favorable treatment over another is kind of a futile exercise because either it can be speculated based off of past games or people start getting into spoilers. This is the kind of conversation that could be had in about a month.

A week.

The demo will give us a taste.

[Homebound]

This constant oppression of the Paragon, be tolerated it will not.

[Hunter of Legends]

Hellbound555 wrote...

This constant oppression of the Paragon, be tolerated it will not.

...

[KotorEffect3]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

At this point arguing that one side gets favorable treatment over another is kind of a futile exercise because either it can be speculated based off of past games or people start getting into spoilers. This is the kind of conversation that could be had in about a month.

A week.

The demo will give us a taste.

We will see how the gameplay feels but in terms of choice and consequence we will have to wait until the full game is released on March 6 to find out how the story plays out.  Because the demo is what we have seen them showcase for several months now we will just finaly be able to play it ourselves instead of watching someone else play it on youtube.    Either way I know I am going to love the game  even if some of the choices don't play out the way I envisioned.

[ObserverStatus]

I think the biggest advantage to playing Renegade is saving the collector base. If you destroyed it, tIM has nothing to lose. You can only make him cry if you give him the base, only to take it away in ME3.

Modifié par bobobo878, 09 février 2012 - 08:13 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Hellbound555 wrote...

This constant oppression of the Paragon, be tolerated it will not.

huh?

Hellbound555 wrote...

This constant oppression of the Renegade, be tolerated it will not.

Ahhh, that explains the whole backlash going on here..

[ObserverStatus]

jreezy wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

I think the biggest advantage to playing Renegade is saving the collector base. If you destroyed it, tIM has nothing to lose. You can only make him cry if you give him the base, only to take it away in ME3.

I never thought about that being a motivation behind giving TIM the base. I would love to see him cry because I took away his precious toy after giving it to him in the first place.

I'm going to make this face when I do.

[arthas999]

Strange enough in ME2 if you are not completely paragon or completely renegade my experience was i couldn't resolve the last loyalty conflict...for me it was between Tali and Legion...both my favorite and one of them died and there was no way I could use the paragon option while I was almost 75% paragon and maybe 20% renegade This is something I really hope is fixed up in ME3...give the environment as the decisions were taken in ME1 & ME2 and not just say Commander Shephard followed the path of Paragon or Renegade at the beginning of the game..can't Shephard be in between somewhere...hell if two Krogan standing on top of an oil tank threatens me I will surely blow up the tank which makes me renegade...I hope they balance the things in ME3 both from story continuation point of view and gameplay...

[Mr. Gogeta34]

This whole issue is beyond Paragon vs Renegade... it's a fundamental flaw in how you make choices in the game period.

Honestly I'm surprised no one from Bioware has tried to defend their position (or even discuss it) regarding this issue... but then again, if/when guilty, what is there to say?

Here's hoping they learn from this in future games...

[Hunter of Legends]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

This whole issue is beyond Paragon vs Renegade... it's a fundamental flaw in how you make choices in the game period.

Honestly I'm surprised no one from Bioware has tried to defend their position (or even discuss it) regarding this issue... but then again, if/when guilty, what is there to say?

Here's hoping they learn from this in future games...

You do realize you can not have loyal teammates and still keep them alive right?

[Ricvenart]

I can see some of my paragon choices biting me in the behind. I won't mind it'd improve the story.
But I cannot see the All human council working, frankly it doesn't make sense to exist to me. The rest of the galaxy (3 trillion) already see humans (12/13 billion) as pushy and getting too much too fast, why would they sit there and let it happen? Not to mention some of the other species' must be aware that the fifth fleet ignored the DA's cries for help. Take that into ME3 and it'd only make sense they'd be reluctant to abandon thier own fight to concentrate on humanity first. Even less so for a Renegade out for humanities interests first.
On a whole it makes sense to the story that those making friends as they went along will be in a better position then those with piles of dead bodies behind them, Even while playing ME for the first time I felt I'd be better off trying to get as many on my side as possible as I prepare for the upcoming war I'm finding out about. I wouldn't count it as favouritism at all.

Brief edit. I just hope choices are better then one and two, Not one part being like executors questions "Hope your better then the one they send you after" for both answer "damn right" and "I strive to be" to fall into the same obvious dialogue trap of "I'll do whatever it takes to stop him"

Modifié par Ricvenart, 09 février 2012 - 08:25 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

This whole issue is beyond Paragon vs Renegade... it's a fundamental flaw in how you make choices in the game period.

Honestly I'm surprised no one from Bioware has tried to defend their position (or even discuss it) regarding this issue... but then again, if/when guilty, what is there to say?

Here's hoping they learn from this in future games...

You do realize you can not have loyal teammates and still keep them alive right?

I'm aware of that.

[Hunter of Legends]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

This whole issue is beyond Paragon vs Renegade... it's a fundamental flaw in how you make choices in the game period.

Honestly I'm surprised no one from Bioware has tried to defend their position (or even discuss it) regarding this issue... but then again, if/when guilty, what is there to say?

Here's hoping they learn from this in future games...

You do realize you can not have loyal teammates and still keep them alive right?

I'm aware of that.

I see no issue then.

Loyalty only matters for ME2 as far as I saw.

[DJBare]

bobobo878 wrote...
She's lying.  Renegade Shepards wont get their souls erased like that one poor Asari Shepard met on Illium.

Shepards omni tool had a built in lie detector?, now I gotta go back and play again to try it out.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Ricvenart wrote...

I can see some of my paragon choices biting me in the behind. I won't mind it'd improve the story.
But I cannot see the All human council working, frankly it doesn't make sense to exist to me. The rest of the galaxy (3 trillion) already see humans (12/13 billion) as pushy and getting too much too fast, why would they sit there and let it happen? Not to mention some of the other species' must be aware that the fifth fleet ignored the DA's cries for help. Take that into ME3 and it'd only make sense they'd be reluctant to abandon thier own fight to concentrate on humanity first. Even less so for a Renegade out for humanities interests first.
On a whole it makes sense to the story that those making friends as they went along will be in a better position then those with piles of dead bodies behind them, Even while playing ME for the first time I felt I'd be better off trying to get as many on my side as possible as I prepare for the upcoming war I'm finding out about. I wouldn't count it as favouritism at all.

Brief edit. I just hope choices are better then one and two, Not one part being like executors questions "Hope your better then the one they send you after" for both answer "damn right" and "I strive to be" to fall into the same obvious dialogue trap of "I'll do whatever it takes to stop him"

Any bite a Paragon choice receives will be better than any alternative (atleast it has been so far).  So it's a bit of a moot point that does nothing to counter the issue.

No one replied to the DA's cries for help.  No one said they couldn't help, and no one even said they'd try.  And with the Reapers actually there, not understanding the chioce of preventing them from arriving at that time is a little silly... but could be argued anyway.

Most species inherently put their species first.. but in that particular case (the Council choice), the entire galaxy was at stake (all races)...  You could've sent your fleet in to save them, succeed, then get decimated by the Reapers because you took too long/lost too many alliance ships (with the very Council you tried to save also being killed... along with the rest of sentient life in the known universe).

And again, House and Jack Bauer aren't the nicest people on missions... but they've been able to surpass any alternative outcome with what they do... it's not unthinkable... and certainly not unrealistic.