136 réponses à ce sujet

[ODST 3]

Did you look closely at the videos? If they weren't planning on giving more than two options in the game, there wouldn't be six separate spaces around the wheel. Like this:

[FryPanNN]

PoliteAssasin, I share your concerns. I normally wouldn't have a problem with them taking some of the dialogue if Shepard was to remain neutral, but they took dialogue, start forced friendships and sometimes stupid lines from Shepard.

The dialogue with Anderson at the beginning of ME3:
Anderson: "We have to go to the citadel and talk to the council".
Shepard: "The council? The fight's here!!"

This is one of the most stupid things I've heard from Shepard. Really? He knows more about reapers than anyone else in the galaxy and should stay on Earth fighting without help, thinking that they have a chance? Come on. Another instance is the auto dialogue with Vasir with Shepard accusing her of the same things he did, when he could just have stayed quiet or replied with better lines, since his relationship with Cerberus is different than Vasir's with the Shadow Broker.

From the footage we've seen, there much more this kind of dialogue, only two options to choose and the auto dialogue with these embarrassing lines from Shepard. And yes, 95% of the time, the footage in the trailers appears on the game.
Really sad, my only disappointment with this game is this. The rest looks absolutely fantastic.

Modifié par FryPanNN, 10 février 2012 - 05:11 .

[G3rman]

ODST 3 wrote...

Did you look closely at the videos? If they weren't planning on giving more than two options in the game, there wouldn't be six separate spaces around the wheel. Like this:

I guess he is afraid he won't get the fix he wants, you know having all six conversation pieces at all times in every conversation possible.  Then that would take us back to ME1 where all three options said the exact same thing, literally as in word for word, making all choices pointless.

Also its a shame you have resorted to calling me a rookie when in fact there is no skill or profession that comes from pointless arguing on the internet.  If you take pride in trying to win at that then I pity you.

[Jaron Oberyn]

kirvingtwo wrote...

Yes, I agree that the latest footage in the trailers must be from the final build at this stage unless they're planning on delaying the release, which I doubt.  Day 1 patch, maybe, but not delayed release.
The whole time I watched the beta I kept looking for more than two dialogue options, especially investigative dialogue options. 
Doesn't the Action mode also do a mix of paragon/renegade choices?  Does anyone know if that is somewhat random or fully scripted so it's the same result every time? 
Oh well, I suppose we will know soon enough.
Don't worry I won't be dissuaded from speaking up.  I have a recent join date on this account due to my old BioWare, pre BSN, account being hacked.  I'm aware of what these forums can be like.

We can only hope that the demo on Tuesday will have more options, but after seeing the new videos today it doesnt look as if they've changed. I believe they said action mode mixed up par and ren choices, don't quote me on it though.

FryPanNN wrote...

PoliteAssasin, I share your concerns. I normally wouldn't have a problem with them taking some of the dialogue if Shepard was to remain neutral, but they took dialogue and start forced friendships.

The dialogue with Anderson at the beginning of ME3: 
Anderson: "We have to go to the citadel and talk to the council".
Shepard:  "The council? The fight's here!!"

This is one of the most stupid things I've heard from Shepard. Really? He knows more about reapers than anyone else in the galaxy and should stay on Earth fighting without help, thinking that they have a chance? Come on. Another instance is the auto dialogue with Vasir with Shepard accusing her of the same things he did, when he could just have stayed quiet or replied with better lines, since his relationship with Cerberus is different than Vasir's with the Shadow Broker.

From the footage we've seen, there much more this kind of dialogue, only two options to choose and the auto dialogue with these embarrassing lines from Shepard. And yes, 95% of the time, the footage in the trailers appears on the game.
Really sad, my only disappointment with this game is this. The rest looks absolutely fantastic.

I agree, the forced Garrus and Tali friendship was terrible. But that's what happens when a game goes from "you are commander shepard", "its your personal universe and story" and "nobody will have the same experience" to a canon commander shepard complete with auto dialogue and forced relationships. I don't know why they've slowly taken control of shepard out of the players hands. It went from "persona universe" in ME1 to "interactive storytelling" in ME3. But they're trying to make shepard the poster boy of the franchise, and in order to do that effectively they need a specific canon character sadly. It's not fun to do different playthroughs if the only way you can customize shepard now is whether or not he's happy or angry when responding. I'd feel more connected to playing Adam Jensen than Shepard if that's the route they picked, and Jensen is more predefined than Shepard. 


-Polite

[Jaron Oberyn]

FryPanNN wrote...
Really sad, my only disappointment with this game is this. The rest looks absolutely fantastic.

I agree completely. Everything else is GREAT, it's the dialogue wheel and how much control of Shepard we have that's bothering me. 


-Polite

[Jaron Oberyn]

ODST 3 wrote...

Did you look closely at the videos? If they weren't planning on giving more than two options in the game, there wouldn't be six separate spaces around the wheel. Like this:

So what are they supposed to cut the wheel in half when they have two options? They didn't do that in ME2, why do that in ME3? I'm sorry but that counterargument is weak. 


-Polite


@German - I don't take pride in winning arguments. You're unsuccessfully trying to bait me, I'm simply telling you it won't work. 

Modifié par PoliteAssasin, 10 février 2012 - 05:18 .

[ODST 3]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

ODST 3 wrote...

Did you look closely at the videos? If they weren't planning on giving more than two options in the game, there wouldn't be six separate spaces around the wheel. Like this:

So what are they supposed to cut the wheel in half when they have two options? They didn't do that in ME2, why do that in ME3? I'm sorry but that counterargument is weak. 


-Polite

Your thread was seeking assurances that there would be more than two dialogue choices and the fact that the wheel is broken up into six parts indicates that there is deliberate space made for these choices at least SOME OF the time. If you want six different choices for every decision, I fear you'll be out of luck, but then, you couldn't do that in ME or ME 2 either.

[eldon_tyrell]

G3rman wrote...

bluewolv1970 wrote...

are there even the blue and red paragon/renegade special choices or interrupts?

Paragon/Renegade are now fitted into a new Reputation system that we don't know a lot about yet, I can only assume interrupts still exist as well as types of persuasion until proven wrong by the demo/game.

to that point, i thought i might've heard the interrupt sound - very, veeery briefly - in one of the videos...the voice cast reveal, maybe? when vega and shep are fighting, or right after.

[FryPanNN]

PoliteAssassin, I played Deus Ex Human Revolution, and to tell you the truth, I am concerned that Bioware is trying to make Shepard like Jensen, more predefined, yes, perhaps inspired by the game.

I have always loved the mass effect series because I could make Shepard the way I wanted. I started to be concerned since LOTSB with all the auto dialogue, that was not neutral, but all friendly with Liara.

And because of this change in the direction of the dialogue, I spent the last months on these forums as well sending messages to the devs expressing my concerns, asking for the same freedom we had with Shepard before. They responded sometimes with vague answers, other times they didn't.

Now, I fear it is too late to ask anything and provide feedback. The game is finished or almost. All we can do now is wait and see.

[G3rman]

Bait you into doing what? Looking like a whining fan that thinks the game is broken forever because he saw a few dialogue wheels he didn't like? You are doing that just fine by yourself.

And you clearly stated you knew you would be attacked by posting this thread even though you still stand by the fact you wanted an answer from BioWare. I presented the idea that you should have messaged BioWare forum accounts or emailed support, but you seem to ignore those and instead post this as a rant flame bait thread.

Congrats on continuing the tradition of BSN in creating internet arguments and perpetuating the raving fan complex.

[incinerator950]

Modifié par incinerator950, 10 février 2012 - 05:27 .

[AlanC9]

PoliteAssasin wrote...
I don't know why they've slowly taken control of shepard out of the players hands. It went from "persona universe" in ME1 to "interactive storytelling" in ME3

I get the feeling we didn't play the same ME1.

[Jaron Oberyn]

FryPanNN wrote...

PoliteAssassin, I played Deus Ex Human Revolution, and to tell you the truth, I am concerned that Bioware is trying to make Shepard like Jensen, more predefined, yes, perhaps inspired by the game.

I have always loved the mass effect series because I could make Shepard the way I wanted. I started to be concerned since LOTSB with all the auto dialogue, that was not neutral, but all friendly with Liara.

And because of this change in the direction of the dialogue, I spent the last months on these forums as well sending messages to the devs expressing my concerns, asking for the same freedom we had with Shepard before. They responded sometimes with vague answers, other times they didn't.

Now, I fear it is too late to ask anything and provide feedback. The game is finished or almost. All we can do now is wait and see.

Yeah. ME2 had it's fair share of auto dialogue, but it got significantly worse with LoTSB and Arrival. After seeing the beta for ME3 and all of the auto dialogue, I figured it would be the norm. Now the two option dialogue, it's like they're intentionally removing control of shepard. It's such a stark contrast from ME1 which is why it bothers me, because I expected them to deliver on the promises they made in Mass 1's marketing about a customizable fully voiced protagonist, now it seems as if we can only make some plot choices about whether we're going to take a paragon or renegade route. The auto dialogue is what's killing the Mass Effect experience for me, and the two option dialogue is another stab. But as I said it seems as if they want to canonize shepard, and this is the only way to do it. 


-Polite

[FryPanNN]

Polite, I can tell that a lot of people on these same forums have some concerns like this as well, they just don't look at these threads or don't reply to them. There are threads and groups that have people concerned as well with these things, just have to look out for them.

Unfortunately every thread expressing concerns about the game begins a flame war where people tells people what they should like or not like in their game, call others trolls, insult and more.

I create threads expecting the devs to see and at least become aware of our opinions and also see if there are other people with the same concerns. I think in providing feedback.

We don't ask them to remove romances or friendships or anything, just return the RPG to what it once was, and a lot of the guys come posting that we are trolling, whining, etc.

I don't understand the removal of one thing that i didn't really saw anyone complaining. And to be honest, I think our requests would only make a lot more people happy, making the game a more personal experience to all of us.

Modifié par FryPanNN, 10 février 2012 - 05:53 .

[Gibb_Shepard]

ME2 was definitely the best when it came to dialogue options. Every option had a different response, in ME1 50% of the time whatever the dialogue options ended up being identical.

Nevertheless, the dialogue options are the most important part of the game for me. If my Shepard goes on an auto-dialogue spree or is forced to choose between an **** response or a kiss-ass response all the time; i'm going to be extremely disappointed. The whole reason i play RPGs is to roleplay a character.

[Jaron Oberyn]

I know I'm not the only one who's concerned over this. I'm probably the most vocal about it though because to me it is game breaking to change one of the main features of the franchise to appeal to newcomers and establish a canonical character. Everything about Mass 3 is looking great, except the amount of control we have over Shepard.

-Polite

@Gibb- Exactly. it's what Bioware promised in ME1, the player IS commander Shepard. I sure don't feel like it with auto dialogue and only two choices of whether my responses will be nice or mean. 

Modifié par PoliteAssasin, 10 février 2012 - 05:48 .

[MisterJB]

I find this to be a very valid concern. Neither official information nor leaked beta has yet showed a Neutral option or P/R option on the left side of the wheel.

[Chuvvy]

From the script it does seem like there might be a bit less dialog choices. More auto selected.

[Jaron Oberyn]

Exactly, and looking at one of the options from the beta having been unchanged in the new vids today, I doubt they changed the other dialogues. Not much we can do at this point, but I'd still like an answer.


-Polite

[Tazzmission]

you guys just nit pick at everything dont you?


seriously they literally just got done fixing the bug issues what 2 weeks ago?


and honestly the me2 choice system was fine and imo better than me1s because it gave you more with the interupt feature.

im not a bioware mark or butt kisser but seriously guys we got 5 videos today and yall whine like kids?


waaa there making it similar to gears or deus ex

or waaa.i demand an answer on the optional tree


or whaa ea has this big conspiracey to ruin what mass effect 1 use to be.

it just really disgusts me how people act around here because these guys bust there butts off to give you something epic and you act like this?

[SomeKindaEnigma]

While I'm a bit concerned about the smaller choice of dialogue, I don't think it will be too detrimental (always went either paragon or renegade, rarely neutral but that's just me).

What really confuses me is if this game has twice as many lines of dialogue as ME1 and nearly twice as many as ME2, why would there be less dialogue options?

Modifié par SomeKindaEnigma, 10 février 2012 - 06:15 .

[FryPanNN]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Exactly, and looking at one of the options from the beta having been unchanged in the new vids today, I doubt they changed the other dialogues. Not much we can do at this point, but I'd still like an answer.


-Polite

You know what is the most frustrating? They created an action mode for people that do not like, to have all or almost all dialog automatic (except big decisions), when our beloved rpg mode doesn't really have that much more dialog options for us to choose.

I think not, but I really hope I'm wrong and we will have all of our dialog choices back and the personal experience we want, just like old times.

Modifié par FryPanNN, 10 février 2012 - 06:23 .

[Tazzmission]

SomeKindaEnigma wrote...

While I'm a bit concerned about the smaller choice of dialogue, I don't think it will be too detrimental (always went either paragon or renegade, rarely neutral but that's just me).

What really confuses me is if this game has twice as many lines of dialogue as ME1 and nearly twice as many as ME2, why would there be less dialogue options?

honestly sometimes i really do believe some people here do in fact dont know what there talking about and the sad truth is  despite what they are given there never happy.


its like seriously the franchise has always been a action/rpg and not just a straight rpg like final fantasey or dragon age

people just like to complain because what they want isnt in or they really cant except the idea that rpgs are more than what they use to be

[Jaron Oberyn]

Tazzmission wrote...

you guys just nit pick at everything dont you?


seriously they literally just got done fixing the bug issues what 2 weeks ago?


and honestly the me2 choice system was fine and imo better than me1s because it gave you more with the interupt feature.

im not a bioware mark or butt kisser but seriously guys we got 5 videos today and yall whine like kids?


waaa there making it similar to gears or deus ex

or waaa.i demand an answer on the optional tree


or whaa ea has this big conspiracey to ruin what mass effect 1 use to be.

it just really disgusts me how people act around here because these guys bust there butts off to give you something epic and you act like this?

Get off your soap box please. Judging by the contents of your post it's quite obvious you didn't take the time to actually read the concerns addressed in this thread. Once again the BDF blindly jumps in whenever someone criticizes the game. To be specific, if you'd read my posts you'd realize I think everything about ME3 is looking excellent, the combat, the multiplayer, the graphics, everything except the dialogue. So I don't know where you're getting this "wah its too much like gears". As for Deus Ex, DXHR's dialogue system blows ME's dialogue system out of the water. They set the standard, and considering it's a predefined character your given a tremendous amount of freedom with Jensen in the conversations AND choices. 


-Polite

[Jaron Oberyn]

FryPanNN wrote...


You know what is the most frustrating? They created an action mode for people that do not like, to have all or almost all dialog automatic (except big decisions), when our beloved rpg mode doesn't really have that much more dialog options for us to choose.

I think not, but perhaps (and I really hope) that I'm wrong and we will have a lot of dialogue and our freedom back again, just like old times.

I would have thought so especially since there are reportedly more lines. 


-Polite