165 réponses à ce sujet

[Raikas]

Is he hated as much as he's just dismissed?  Aside from the romance, of course.

AgitatedLemon wrote...

That sometimes happens when your squad of twelve people gets wiped out because one of your own betrayed you.

And he isn't "constantly butting heads with authority", he just disagrees with how they handle things. He didn't blow up the C-Sec office and kill Executor Pallin, he quit his job and turned down a deal to receive Spectre training. He's only "Ends justify the means" up to a certain extent. He isn't needlessly cruel, and he's only hard on people who deserve it (IE scumbag criminals or serial killers). And he's never once killed an innocent, the entire purpose of his squad on Omega was to protect civilians from being harassed and shaken down by gangs and mercs.

He's just a vigilante.

I think that was Palidane's point - a vigilante is not a soldier.   A good soldier follows orders/laws, while a vigilante challenges them.  Doesn't mean you don't respect his combat skills or decision making or any of that (I'd pick Garrus over Jacob any day), but by definition a vigilante can't be the better solider.

Modifié par Hervoyl, 10 février 2012 - 04:03 .

[MakeMineMako]

I liked the character myself. He comes from a solid military background, like Shepard. I made it a point to strike up conversations and a friendship with Shepard just to hear his POV. He's a pretty level headed and straight forward guy, and has a strong sense of honor. Good qualities in a team mate, from an in-story POV.

[Dirgegun]

Eradyn wrote...

Dirgegun wrote...

Eradyn wrote...

Yep, it's just apathy. I don't hate Jacob; that requires a strong enough emotional investment and he just never engendered that in me. =/ I do have to say that he helped lead to some awesome internet memes and I did enjoy getting to the "spilling drinks" part of the "relationship." But sheesh, getting to that point was like stepping through a minefield (and I'm not just talkin' femShep's horrifying behavior). Jacob can be downright hostile and standoffish at times, beyond merely "not trying to burden Shepard with his problems."

It really did seem like he and Miranda kind of switched personalities when they boarded the Normandy...

Made one of my Shep's feel kind of awkward after she called Miranda a b*tch, because she was suddenly so honest and open when they got to the ship.

And you know what? I think that 180 hurt his character's overall popularity.  People were introduced to a completely different Jacob at the start, and then you get on the ship and BAM! I think it threw people off (I know it did for me).  And he never got much of a chance to recover because his character didn't really progress back to that initial point, whereas Miranda's character started at a low point and just progressively improved.  I said it a long while back, but of all the squadmates I think Jacob got the shortest end of the writing stick.

I think I can say that I would have at least thought Jacob was okay without that odd turn around, with it and the fact that he's more or less a 'just there' character for me.... poor thing didn't really get a chance for me or any of my Sheps to bother taking him on missions. I even forgot his loyalty mission was his most of the time, because I was more focused on the abused crew than Jacob's connection to the mess. The dialogue options I chose at the end of it didn't even involve Jacob, the guy had to tell his father who he was on his own. >.>;

[AgitatedLemon]

Hervoyl wrote...

Is he hated as much as he's just dismissed?  Aside from the romance, of course.

AgitatedLemon wrote...

That sometimes happens when your squad of twelve people gets wiped out because one of your own betrayed you.

And he isn't "constantly butting heads with authority", he just disagrees with how they handle things. He didn't blow up the C-Sec office and kill Executor Pallin, he quit his job and turned down a deal to receive Spectre training. He's only "Ends justify the means" up to a certain extent. He isn't needlessly cruel, and he's only hard on people who deserve it (IE scumbag criminals or serial killers). And he's never once killed an innocent, the entire purpose of his squad on Omega was to protect civilians from being harassed and shaken down by gangs and mercs.

He's just a vigilante.

I think that was Palidane's point - a vigilante is not a soldier.   A good soldier follows orders/laws, while a vigilante challenges them.  Doesn't mean you don't respect his combat skills or decision making or any of that (I'd pick Garrus over Jacob any day), but by definition a vigilante can't be the better solider.

Technically, he hasn't been a soldier in years. He was freelance with his squad for 2 years, and with C-Sec for an indeterminate amount of time (Unless I just forgot).

But I never said he's IS a soldier, I said he's better at soldiering. Besides, Jacob questions Shepard's choices a fair number of times, especially on the renegade side, does that make him a vigilante?

[Dirgegun]

Hervoyl wrote...

Is he hated as much as he's just dismissed?  Aside from the romance, of course.

AgitatedLemon wrote...

That sometimes happens when your squad of twelve people gets wiped out because one of your own betrayed you.

And he isn't "constantly butting heads with authority", he just disagrees with how they handle things. He didn't blow up the C-Sec office and kill Executor Pallin, he quit his job and turned down a deal to receive Spectre training. He's only "Ends justify the means" up to a certain extent. He isn't needlessly cruel, and he's only hard on people who deserve it (IE scumbag criminals or serial killers). And he's never once killed an innocent, the entire purpose of his squad on Omega was to protect civilians from being harassed and shaken down by gangs and mercs.

He's just a vigilante.

I think that was Palidane's point - a vigilante is not a soldier.   A good soldier follows orders/laws, while a vigilante challenges them.  Doesn't mean you don't respect his combat skills or decision making or any of that (I'd pick Garrus over Jacob any day), but by definition a vigilante can't be the better solider.

Not arguing but what you said just reminded me of "a good soldier knows when to follow orders, but a great soldier knows when to question them."

Saying that, I didn't really find Jacob a 'good soldier' either and it's funny that he's being compared to Garrus in that respect. He quit the Alliance because there was too much red tape... which was the reason why Garrus quit c-sec. In that regard they both gave up because things weren't being done how they wanted them to be done. Garrus became a vigilante and Jacob joined a terrorist organisation. 

So... yeah...

[Cuddlezarro]

he's boring as hell

he talks about doing allthis interesting stuff but NEVER expands on any of it no interesting stories or anything

oh yeah i was a corsair and I left

oh i saved the council from some terrorists but I wont explain it to you

oh yeah i was alliance military but i left

that pretty much sums him up... hell i felt I knew ZAEED better than him by the end of the game...

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 10 février 2012 - 04:26 .

[AgitatedLemon]

Dirgegun wrote...

Garrus became a vigilante and Jacob joined a terrorist organisation. 

So... yeah...

LOLOLOLOL

[KealaFerret]

I liked Jacob just fine; he was my bro!

But, I can't think of the word "prize" the same. It sends me into a fit of giggles. I kept saying, "but the priiiizzzze" to my husband and laughing so hard. He had no idea what that meant, and I didn't want to explain.

[HolyAvenger]

He's alright. Doesn't get much character development. I certainly don't hate him, but he isn't my favourite either.

[android654]

Volus Warlord wrote...

He's a square. An empty square. Nothing to identify him, nothing to make him stand out.

But people still like Tali and Garrus even though they've suffered from the same problem for longer.

Personally I like Jacob, he's a straight forward soldier who focuses on doing the right thing the best way possible. He's the closest thing to a "good guy" throughout the series.

[AgitatedLemon]

android654 wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

He's a square. An empty square. Nothing to identify him, nothing to make him stand out.

But people still like Tali and Garrus even though they've suffered from the same problem for longer.

Personally I like Jacob, he's a straight forward soldier who focuses on doing the right thing the best way possible. He's the closest thing to a "good guy" throughout the series.

Garrus has a fair number of perks, Tali... Eh.

[Raikas]

Garrus became a vigilante and Jacob joined a terrorist organisation. 

Heh.  True enough!

AgitatedLemon wrote...
Technically, he hasn't been a soldier in years. He was freelance with his squad for 2 years, and with C-Sec for an indeterminate amount of time (Unless I just forgot).

But I never said he's IS a soldier, I said he's better at soldiering. Besides, Jacob questions Shepard's choices a fair number of times, especially on the renegade side, does that make him a vigilante?

But soldiering is the act of being a soldier.   I totally agree that Jacob's not anywhere near a perfect soldier either, but if we're looking at "greater than"s, then he comes on top versus Garrus (and not by much - I imagine the VS would win the overall crew "best at soldiering" if we were talking about that).  Again, I'd rather have Garrus as part of my crew (I think he'd win a combat competency comparison) and I think Jacob is a little bland as a character, but it's that same blandness that works for him specifically in a soldiering context (and only with limited comparisons).

Modifié par Hervoyl, 10 février 2012 - 04:37 .

[AgitatedLemon]

Hervoyl wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...
Technically, he hasn't been a soldier in years. He was freelance with his squad for 2 years, and with C-Sec for an indeterminate amount of time (Unless I just forgot).

But I never said he's IS a soldier, I said he's better at soldiering. Besides, Jacob questions Shepard's choices a fair number of times, especially on the renegade side, does that make him a vigilante?

But soldiering is the act of being a soldier.   I totally agree that Jacob's not a perfect soldier either, but if we're looking at "greater than"s, then he comes on top in that comparison (I imagine the VS would win the overall crew "best at soldiering" if we were talking about that).  Again, I'd rather have Garrus as part of my crew (I think he'd win a combat competency comparison) and I think Jacob is a little bland as a character, but it's that same blandness that works for him specifically in a soldiering context (and only with limited comparisons).

This is probably a bad time, but "A good soldier follows orders. A great soldier knows when to question them"

Garrus just does it a bit more radically than most.

[android654]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

android654 wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

He's a square. An empty square. Nothing to identify him, nothing to make him stand out.

But people still like Tali and Garrus even though they've suffered from the same problem for longer.

Personally I like Jacob, he's a straight forward soldier who focuses on doing the right thing the best way possible. He's the closest thing to a "good guy" throughout the series.

Garrus has a fair number of perks, Tali... Eh.

Garrus annoyed me in ME1 and no one got less character development in ME2 than dextro. Personally I'd be fine without either of the chickens on the team. I do admit having him helped in the beginning with sniping, but Zaeed is just as good.

[Raikas]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

This is probably a bad time, but "A good soldier follows orders. A great soldier knows when to question them"

Garrus just does it a bit more radically than most.

Heh, Dirgegun already quoted that one upthread.

Seriously though, good solidering would be creating change from within, Garrus makes his own change from the outside.  Which is brilliant - saying that he's not a soldier (or less of a soldier, because Jacob isn't one either) isn't an insult, it's an observation. 

[AgitatedLemon]

android654 wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

android654 wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

He's a square. An empty square. Nothing to identify him, nothing to make him stand out.

But people still like Tali and Garrus even though they've suffered from the same problem for longer.

Personally I like Jacob, he's a straight forward soldier who focuses on doing the right thing the best way possible. He's the closest thing to a "good guy" throughout the series.

Garrus has a fair number of perks, Tali... Eh.

Garrus annoyed me in ME1 and no one got less character development in ME2 than dextro. Personally I'd be fine without either of the chickens on the team. I do admit having him helped in the beginning with sniping, but Zaeed is just as good.

Eh, I more or less took Garrus because headcanon called for it. He DID have assault rifles and Overload though, so he complimented my Shepard and Miranda fairly well.

Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 10 février 2012 - 04:43 .

[android654]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

android654 wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

android654 wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

He's a square. An empty square. Nothing to identify him, nothing to make him stand out.

But people still like Tali and Garrus even though they've suffered from the same problem for longer.

Personally I like Jacob, he's a straight forward soldier who focuses on doing the right thing the best way possible. He's the closest thing to a "good guy" throughout the series.

Garrus has a fair number of perks, Tali... Eh.

Garrus annoyed me in ME1 and no one got less character development in ME2 than dextro. Personally I'd be fine without either of the chickens on the team. I do admit having him helped in the beginning with sniping, but Zaeed is just as good.

Eh, I more or less took Garrus because headcanon called for it. He DID have assault rifles and Overload though, so he complimented my Shepard and Miranda fairly well.

I will agree, that is a good team. It's a lot easier, when playing on insanity to have two people eat away shields while you cut them down with a rifle. Personality wise, Garrus leaves everything to the imagination.

[Labrev]

For me it's that he starts off as a guy you that want to get to know and feels very friendly, revealing that Cerberus revived you and willingness to talk pre-FP. Then on the Normandy when you try to get to know him, your conversations just go nowhere every time. He acts all cool and friendly, but it makes his personality feel disingenuous. And as a party member he's often a grouch, sometimes even stubborn.

Then there are rampant inconsistencies in his character that really make him look like a tool. Saying that the crew needs to be focused for the mission immediately after Horizon, then you have to pry out of him why he left a note with Kelly. Saying how important camaraderie is to a team, then insisting on cutting short every conversation you try to have with him by excusing himself for his mysterious "duties" ... it's almost a bad joke given the game's crappy weapon selection you'd think he'd be working on in the armory.

For a guy who's redeeming quality is "sanity" he is paradoxically the least approachable person on the ship IMO.


Having said that... I came away surprisingly impressed at his dialogue/role from the leaked ME3 script. Dude found his balls, or at least finally shows some. Even the one issue of controversy, not really a big deal tbh.

Modifié par Hah Yes Reapers, 10 février 2012 - 04:49 .

[HAGA NAGA]

jacob's loyalty mission was really cool except for the whole.... "jacob" part of it

[Pacifien]

For anyone playing a female Shepard, a lot of the dislike towards Jacob could very well have little to do with him and everything to do with how the voice direction tried to play the dynamic between the two characters. If I can ignore Shepard's coy little "I'm just interesting in talking for a little bit..." and choose my discussion points carefully, I can get a pretty interesting friendship between the two of them. As in the most normal "let's have drinks on the Citadel after work" relationship one can achieve with any of the crew. But getting there is damn hard. Because if I'm not avoiding the relationship angle, I'm avoiding Jacob's tendency to completely shut down if you try to play psychologist to him. Which is what Shepard does to every other squadmate when you think about it, so Jacob is the odd man out where such a tactic will get you burned. I mean, you get further with Jack with that sort of behavior, when I would think that she'd just as easily shut you down the way Jacob does.

Aside from the minefield that is navigating Jacob's dialogue, he is a character that lacks story when I know he is a character that has a story. For this, I blame the iPhone game Mass Effect Galaxy in which he was the main character. Perhaps the writers felt his story was sufficiently told in that game, and so, they didn't need to delve so much into it for Mass Effect 2. Which just goes in my evidence pile for why tie-in literature, DLC, Facebook games, whatever, why they are dangerous ground when it comes to the narrative of what is arguably the main story.

I mean, do people really register the fact that Jacob was on Eden Prime? He and Shepard *never* discuss it. And he gives just about no details on what he did that got him into Cerberus, because that would mean actually giving details on a game that BioWare wants you to play so they would like to be a bit vague rather than SPOILERS!

Every character should have some story to tell, that's what gets the player's interest. Otherwise, Jacob might as well have just been the quartermaster who hangs out in the Armory just as Chakwas hung out in the Medical Bay. I bet you if he had been, people would have loved the character.

[AgitatedLemon]

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

Dude found his balls, or at least finally shows it.

They were between the couch cushions.

Who'd have guessed?

[Dirgegun]

android654 wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

android654 wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

He's a square. An empty square. Nothing to identify him, nothing to make him stand out.

But people still like Tali and Garrus even though they've suffered from the same problem for longer.

Personally I like Jacob, he's a straight forward soldier who focuses on doing the right thing the best way possible. He's the closest thing to a "good guy" throughout the series.

Garrus has a fair number of perks, Tali... Eh.

Garrus annoyed me in ME1 and no one got less character development in ME2 than dextro. Personally I'd be fine without either of the chickens on the team. I do admit having him helped in the beginning with sniping, but Zaeed is just as good.

It really comes down to personal preference. You found Garrus annoying, I loved his character. You liked Jacob, I found him just 'there'.It's like I said in my first post. Everyone has things that attract them or rub them the wrong way... or don't inspire any feeling in them whatsoever, which Jacob seems to suffer from the most, from what I've seen.

Not directed at you but ending comment: does it really matter what characters people like/dislike? What matters is who you, the individual, likes.

[SlottsMachine]

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

For a guy who's redeeming quality is "sanity" he is paradoxically the least approachable person on the ship IMO.

Eradyn wrote...
Jacob can be downright hostile and standoffish at times, beyond merely "not trying to burden Shepard with his problems."

These.

[Armass81]

Heres how an average gamers mind works pretty much:

Jacob

Not a main character, no main character points.
Not a female, no sex appeal points.
Not an alien, no exotic points.
Not a badass(at least not exclaiming one like Zaeed), no badass points.

Total points: 0

Everyone else in ME squad gets some points from some of the above. Except maybe Kaidan... well he's not that popular either... surprised?

Modifié par Armass81, 10 février 2012 - 05:00 .

[Dirgegun]

Armass81 wrote...

Heres how an average gamers mind works pretty much:

Jacob

Not a female, no sex appeal points.
Not an alien, no exotic points.
Not a badass(at least not exclaiming one like Zaeed), No badass points.

Total points: 0

Or, you know, maybe the 'average gamer' just has the same issues with Jacob that have been discussed here.