18 réponses à ce sujet

[Jensonagain]

The Ultimate Toolset Tutorial

Has yet to be released. Once they release and unlock the core single campaign files we'll be able to see how they did all the conversations, scripting, dialogue, etc. It will be the ultimate tutorial resource.

Only then will we start to see epic modifications to the game. Example code is the best way to learn. Until then we're all wasting our time learning a toolset with barely any examples/documentation.

[Challseus]

Speak for yourself. I haven't been wasting time at all, and I haven't needed the core camapign content to get anything done either.

Modifié par Challseus, 24 novembre 2009 - 03:28 .

[georage]

I wish they would let us modify the OC levels, I can figure the rest out. The level editor is consuming my SOUL!

[Jensonagain]

Challseus wrote...

Speak for yourself. I haven't been wasting time at all, and I haven't needed the core camapign content to get anything done either.

So you're telling me that with the limited documentation, limited code examples you would still be as productive WITHOUT access to how the original campaign was created?

One glance at how they made the original campaign will save you WEEKS of trial and error. 

Do you know how to add a new character into the cousland origin campaign?

[Jensonagain]

georage wrote...

I wish they would let us modify the OC levels, I can figure the rest out. The level editor is consuming my SOUL!

I've heard that they are going to let us modify the OC. I can't wait until that time comes.

[Challseus]

Jensonagain wrote...

Challseus wrote...

Speak for yourself. I haven't been wasting time at all, and I haven't needed the core camapign content to get anything done either.

So you're telling me that with the limited documentation, limited code examples you would still be as productive WITHOUT access to how the original campaign was created?

One glance at how they made the original campaign will save you WEEKS of trial and error. 

Do you know how to add a new character into the cousland origin campaign?

For my needs, I am doing just fine, as I am making an entirely new custom campaign. So, I don't have to worry about how to edit the OC. Do I get stuck with things every once in a while? Of course, but that comes with development. When I do get stuck on a nasty scripting problem, I move on to another aspect of the development. When I come back, and my head is clear, I usually figure it out.

To be honest, I never once thought, "Wow, I wish I could look at the OC, to see how they did something".

As for knowing how to add a new character, as stated earlier, I have no need for that. If that is the thing in particular you are having issues with, why not pop over to the custom content forum (if you haven't already), and talk to the guys over there. I mean, haven't people added/removed NPC's from the camp? *Someone* must know how to do it!

Some people call me an optimist, but I think this community has already come so far within the past few weeks. The forums have been split up, new categories have been added to the project section, and the WIKI is being added to every day. There are other things that need to be changed, but what's it been, like 3 weeks?!

EDIT - I have to call BS on the limited code examples (assuming you mean scripts). The functionality for all the abilities (talents, spells, etc.), effects, AI, etc. is already a part of the core resources. The Scripting section taught me a lot about events, and how they are handled in the game. The rest, I learned the old fashion way...

Modifié par Challseus, 24 novembre 2009 - 05:45 .

[DLAN_Immortality]

I'd say, instead of crying in a corner, why don't you start preparing things? I'm working in two mods that DO require the OC content and the GUID bug fix pronto.

That said, I am working on them, as of right now, and I'm learning a great deal about the toolset, scripting (bah, I lie, my boyfriend scripts for me).. not to mention that I'm writing all the dialogs in the toolset already to have them ready to go; oh, yeah, and I'm avidly testing one of my mods already in game (just as a different campaign, though).

So even though we need to wait for the OC elements to be released and toolset fixes, why don't you do what you can in the meantime?

Modifié par DLAN_Immortality, 24 novembre 2009 - 09:31 .

[Qkrch]

Poor modders, you want to take Ostagar and repeat it 20 times for your campaign, but someday people will complain of your mod because your overrided something or just the enviroments are too similar to the campaign. Then your assets will be obsolete



You don't need the resource files for making a mod, just for some minor things if you haven't figured out yet. Modding always consume souls, so be ready for that.



Modders don't born but grow.

Real modders don't copy stuff.



REAL MODDERS DONtT HAVE TO MESS WITH THE LIGHTMAPPER SCRIPT!

[Dreadthreat]

Qkrch wrote...

Poor modders, you want to take Ostagar and repeat it 20 times for your campaign, but someday people will complain of your mod because your overrided something or just the enviroments are too similar to the campaign. Then your assets will be obsolete

You don't need the resource files for making a mod, just for some minor things if you haven't figured out yet. Modding always consume souls, so be ready for that.

Modders don't born but grow.
Real modders don't copy stuff.

REAL MODDERS DONtT HAVE TO MESS WITH THE LIGHTMAPPER SCRIPT!

That's the lamest thing I've ever heard

[Qkrch]

Dreadthreat wrote...

That's the lamest thing I've ever heard

And there goes the player with his infnite wisdom

[Lord Mephisto]

Let us try to be constructive.

There is no doubt that repeating everything done in the official campaign will get old quickly. But that is not the issue here.

It would be a huge advantage to SEE how the official campaign has been built to help us more quickly gain an understanding of the toolset. Then, we do not need to make more or less educated guesses about every aspect of the toolset. Especially, for people with limited time, this is annoying.

Modifié par Lord Mephisto, 24 novembre 2009 - 08:46 .

[Beerfish]

I agree with Lord Mephisto 100% actually seeing how things are done in a tangible working example is the best education you can get sometimes.

[Astorax]

It's always helpful to see how someone who understands the tool thoroughly did stuff.



No matter how much trial and error and/or fumbling around with things you do, not only is there going to be delays, confusion and stuff like that, but there's also going to be a lot of inefficiencies, particularly in the coding/scripting side of things. Seeing how someone who wrote the API (and let's be honest, most of the scripters drove the API) scripts/codes things will give us MUCH clearer ideas of how it's meant to be used efficiently.



Until that time, while I grant you that we can create stuff for sure, it won't be the best it can be. Same thing with the custom content...we can, from scratch, create our own models, animations, etc, but until we see templates of what Bioware did (and we already have access to a lot of those model files btw) we wouldn't be able to create the best models for DA:O.

[ladydesire]

Qkrch wrote...

Poor modders, you want to take Ostagar and repeat it 20 times for your campaign, but someday people will complain of your mod because your overrided something or just the enviroments are too similar to the campaign. Then your assets will be obsolete

You don't need the resource files for making a mod, just for some minor things if you haven't figured out yet. Modding always consume souls, so be ready for that.

Modders don't born but grow.
Real modders don't copy stuff.

REAL MODDERS DONtT HAVE TO MESS WITH THE LIGHTMAPPER SCRIPT!

There are some modders that would like to extend the campaign with new content (I have a few ideas for things that would need direct access to the original conversations to fully implement); after all, wasn't that one of the big complaints about NWN? You couldn't mod the Bioware campaigns heavily without breaking patching of it (at least until patch 1.69 came out). Bioware has listened and we are going to be able to do it this time. (BTW, see you in IRC. )

[Dendory]

As a noob modder, all I'd like is to do some new content for the game, and in fact it looks pretty easy to tie in a new area/level to the map, like any DLC does, with a map pin and all, but my game just freezes when loading it, so I can't do anything, and I've posted about it with no reply for days, it seems that its just not possible right now which is a shame.

[fr00kie]

Jensonagain wrote...

So you're telling me that with the limited documentation, limited code examples you would still be as productive WITHOUT access to how the original campaign was created?

One glance at how they made the original campaign will save you WEEKS of trial and error. 

Do you know how to add a new character into the cousland origin campaign?

WOW. Productivity is 90% about the person doing the producing and 10% about the resources available - limited or otherwise. There are people given MUCH less that produce 10x more than someone with everything at their fingertips.

Trial and Error is for a purpose. What are you going to do when you run into a roadblock? When you are stumped on something that you are trying to accomplish yet cannot find the forum post, google search return or specific file that is needed to hold your hand through it. Are you gonna throw your arms up in the air and ****, crying foul and quit until someone tells you how it's done?

If the stuff is available then all the better. I have to believe that you can learn SOMETHING though. You often learn more when you have to figure it out yourself and don't have all the "tools" available than when you have everything you need.

Modifié par fr00kie, 24 novembre 2009 - 11:01 .

[Pellegrin]

Trial and error is fine when there are a relatively small number of options. That's not the case here.



The difference in productivity between person A tightening a screw manually and person B using a screwdriver is much higher than 10%. That's what tools are for and this is a great tool.

[Jensonagain]

fr00kie wrote...

Jensonagain wrote...

So you're telling me that with the limited documentation, limited code examples you would still be as productive WITHOUT access to how the original campaign was created?

One glance at how they made the original campaign will save you WEEKS of trial and error. 

Do you know how to add a new character into the cousland origin campaign?

WOW. Productivity is 90% about the person doing the producing and 10% about the resources available - limited or otherwise. There are people given MUCH less that produce 10x more than someone with everything at their fingertips.

Trial and Error is for a purpose. What are you going to do when you run into a roadblock? When you are stumped on something that you are trying to accomplish yet cannot find the forum post, google search return or specific file that is needed to hold your hand through it. Are you gonna throw your arms up in the air and ****, crying foul and quit until someone tells you how it's done?

If the stuff is available then all the better. I have to believe that you can learn SOMETHING though. You often learn more when you have to figure it out yourself and don't have all the "tools" available than when you have everything you need.

Welcome to the Bronkonian forest.  Somewhere in my forest is a treasure chest.  The map to the treasure chest isn't available yet but should be soon enough. However you are welcome to wander around aimlessly lost in the forest for as long as you like. HAVE FUN!

[Challseus]

Jensonagain wrote...

fr00kie wrote...

Jensonagain wrote...

So you're telling me that with the limited documentation, limited code examples you would still be as productive WITHOUT access to how the original campaign was created?

One glance at how they made the original campaign will save you WEEKS of trial and error. 

Do you know how to add a new character into the cousland origin campaign?

WOW. Productivity is 90% about the person doing the producing and 10% about the resources available - limited or otherwise. There are people given MUCH less that produce 10x more than someone with everything at their fingertips.

Trial and Error is for a purpose. What are you going to do when you run into a roadblock? When you are stumped on something that you are trying to accomplish yet cannot find the forum post, google search return or specific file that is needed to hold your hand through it. Are you gonna throw your arms up in the air and ****, crying foul and quit until someone tells you how it's done?

If the stuff is available then all the better. I have to believe that you can learn SOMETHING though. You often learn more when you have to figure it out yourself and don't have all the "tools" available than when you have everything you need.

Welcome to the Bronkonian forest.  Somewhere in my forest is a treasure chest.  The map to the treasure chest isn't available yet but should be soon enough. However you are welcome to wander around aimlessly lost in the forest for as long as you like. HAVE FUN!

Nice analogy!

Missing a couple things though... While waiting for the map to be made available, we will give you a ton of notes, clues, and a few thousand others to help you in finding the chest. Also, before the chest was even known of, there were already 10 or more people looking for it, so you can ask them advice on how to find it as well. Oh, and don't forget the makers of said chest. They are available for help as well, before the map is made available

In short, if I really wanted this treasure chest, and I had all of these resources, and I knew the map would be available at some point, life would good. Just think what I will be able to buy with the money from the chest (assuming there is money in it!).

Modifié par Challseus, 24 novembre 2009 - 11:55 .