188 réponses à ce sujet

[kansadoom]

Ordo_Wells wrote...

Beach X Bit
I think we're on the same page.
What I'm getting at is that the games, out of a misunderstanding and mis-evaluation of women and men, force women into combat roles...perhaps because they do not understand or appreciate the roles where women tend to excel. For instance, this is Warrior game, not an espionage or management etc. game. I could never say that a woman would not be able to be a spy, or agent, or use her mind/cunning to outwit opponents.

and, let's just look at the premise here. We have a threat. We have a hero. He/she is to be joined up by the elite warrior/types of his world. DO you really think, that if we were to draw from the pool of adventurers in this world, for the purposes of combatting this army, that we would come up with a 50/50 balanced party of men and women......?

Also, OF COURSE I"VE SEEN "QUEER EYE". What am I, living under a rock? ; ) I don't even own a television, or watch TV at home, but still have seen the show. Also, I think the show is alright (but don't know if it's still on air). About a year ago I actually sat down and watched some of it at a girlfriend's house. The elf character in this game is so effiminate, blonde, tan, and pretty-- he just struck me as being...kinda gay. Really, he'd be more interesting, and compelling, as a character if he WAS gay. If I recall my history correctly, Athens actually raised their elite soldiers to be homosexual and partner with another soldier, so that they'd fight all the more intently alongside eachother. Instead, though, Zevran's just another mixed up-seeming pretty boy.

Still, I like this game, it has potential, but I think it won't be "complete" for another year or so, after modders have their way with it.

Hes bisexual does that count

[SimToth1212]

kansadoom wrote...
 and dont have any children to take care of and maybe they dont want to have a child ...

Except Morrigan.

So anyway, Shale is a female??? I must've missed that one.

And also as a real live hetero female I think Zevran is the best male in the game.  He's strong, sexy, flirty and skilled. Just because he says he swings both ways doesn't effect his manliness, IMO. And my main (ranger) lived happily ever after with him...

[Zenthar Aseth]

Taritu wrote...

Have you played the game? The warriors are ALL men except for the golem. The only slight stretch is Leiliana, who is an archer, but women can use bows, they just can't use the heaviest draw bows.

IRL men are better than women in hand to hand combat, in general. But that doesn't mean a specific women can't be better than the vast majority of men. Go look up who Wing Chun was, for example.

Men are stronger and faster on the run and have better 3d vision as well as usually having a reach and weight advantage. Women are more flexible, have a lower center of gravity and have better peripheral vision and more acute senses in general other than 3d.

Weapons do even things up quite a bit, as well.

In any case, this is a game, and if I want to play to a female warrior (I do), I will. But the original complaint is BS on the face of it, since every single warrior in the game is male, there's only one female combat NPC in the group and she uses a bow.

Look up who Wing Chung was? Why don't you tell us to look at the Amazons, Xena and Valkyrie, too?

Could you back up any of those claims? Women being more flexible, having a lower centre of gravity having a better peripheral vision and more acute senses in general other than 3d? Any sources?

[BeachxBit]

See, again, I agree with the OP. Sort of.

Men and women ARE different. I know that we're at a sociological stage now where the simple ideology behind that is taboo, but I can't necessarily say that I *personally* feel that moves us in the right direction. I think that there are a lot of stages on which men and women SHOULD be viewed as equals, except when they are not. lol. This is one of those cases.

If you are speaking of the subject from the perspective of "realism", like I said, while there were women involved in some battles, it certainly wasn't the norm. There were a lot of core and fundamental reasons for this. The highest of which being that by shear genetics men are stronger. they are bigger. it takes more hits to knock them down. Couple that with the fact that women are typically regarded as being the child rearers (and for good reasons, namely... anatomy.) Women would stay home to ensure the survival of their offspring... which is and always has been paramount to the thriving of any species.

I'm not saying that this makes women "weaker" (in a general sense) or inferior (obviously, because I AM a woman). But just that there are undeniable differences, and that there is a point where reverse sexisms gets to be a little much.

[Ildaron]

I believe Zevran is bi-sexual as Lilliannia.

[Beechwell]

Ordo_Wells wrote...
Think about that.  Now, the Fantasy we are playing is relying more and more on a Fantastical view of the sexes than it is about a Fantastical Environment and Situation.  ANd I have to ask, why do we need, or want, a fantastical view of the sexes?  I mean, seeing men and women be brave and courageous IS useful, interesting, and emmersive; but seeing women as men....that's almost harmful. 

Physiological differences between sexes are downplayed in DA, certainly. But I don't see why that is so terrible. I as a male like the idea of feminine yet tough women, and modern fantasy is one place where I can have them. What is so harmful in that? That women might get the idea that there are other things they can be good at than housework and child rearing?

I find the still all too common ideal of the perfect man as a gruff, though, heterosexual soldier much more harmful, and out of place in a society where physical fitness is of little actual importance.

And what is your problem with Zevran? His feminine behaviour doesn't make him any less a man physically, so no less fit to be a warrior. That is pure social prejudice (you know that the Sacred Band of Thebes who played a major part in defeating the Spartan hegemony consisted of male-male couples, right?)

Actually I think DA strikes a good balance regarding females in battle roles. The great majority of soldiers you encounter are still men, and in your party the soldiers tend to be men as well (running around with men and taking some damage is nothing an average trained female couldn't do, so I don' see your problem with the female mages, unless you really think that all women should stick to the hearth and childbed). Many people are even surprised to see a female Grey Warden, indicating that as a female warrior you are indeed something rather unique.

[Taritu]

Zenthar Aseth wrote...

Taritu wrote...

Have you played the game? The warriors are ALL men except for the golem. The only slight stretch is Leiliana, who is an archer, but women can use bows, they just can't use the heaviest draw bows.

IRL men are better than women in hand to hand combat, in general. But that doesn't mean a specific women can't be better than the vast majority of men. Go look up who Wing Chun was, for example.

Men are stronger and faster on the run and have better 3d vision as well as usually having a reach and weight advantage. Women are more flexible, have a lower center of gravity and have better peripheral vision and more acute senses in general other than 3d.

Weapons do even things up quite a bit, as well.

In any case, this is a game, and if I want to play to a female warrior (I do), I will. But the original complaint is BS on the face of it, since every single warrior in the game is male, there's only one female combat NPC in the group and she uses a bow.

Look up who Wing Chung was? Why don't you tell us to look at the Amazons, Xena and Valkyrie, too?

Could you back up any of those claims? Women being more flexible, having a lower centre of gravity having a better peripheral vision and more acute senses in general other than 3d? Any sources?

I'm not here to do your internet searches.  A 2 second google on any of these things will confirm them.   If you want a somewhat old, but still accurate summary of male/female differences, try the book "Brain Sex", it includes the details.  Or pick up a psychology text book for perception difference and a sports physiology one for the other differences.

Men are better at some things (on average), women are better than others.  You seem to be trying to insist that men are physically superior in every way, they aren't.

In other words, you appear to be both ignorant and sexist, and proud of it.  There are real differences between men and women, both physical and mental, but you don't know what they are and you can't be bothered to do the basic research to find out what they are.  And your original point about male vs. female warriors in the game was simply wrong, since there is only one companion who is even slightly a warrior who is a female.

[Zenthar Aseth]

Beechwell wrote...

Ordo_Wells wrote...
Think about that.  Now, the Fantasy we are playing is relying more and more on a Fantastical view of the sexes than it is about a Fantastical Environment and Situation.  ANd I have to ask, why do we need, or want, a fantastical view of the sexes?  I mean, seeing men and women be brave and courageous IS useful, interesting, and emmersive; but seeing women as men....that's almost harmful. 

I find the still all too common ideal of the perfect man as a gruff, though, heterosexual soldier much more harmful, and out of place in a society where physical fitness is of little actual importance.

And what is your problem with Zevran? His feminine behaviour doesn't make him any less a man physically, so no less fit to be a warrior. That is pure social prejudice (you know that the Sacred Band of Thebes who played a major part in defeating the Spartan hegemony consisted of male-male couples, right?)

It is not harmful that the perfect man is like that... but it is out of place, I'll give you that. We do not have enough of men like that so we live in a society of sheep. It is only harmful to the people who are in power if more men strive to be like that.

You make a very weird statement.. being feminine and having a homosexual relationship are not the same thing. I am willing to bet a lot on the fact that those Spartans were not feminine even if they had male-male relationships..

[Ordo_Wells]

KANSADOOM WROTE:

No they are not the most important things but havent you noticed that all of the women you take with you are not in love with anyone and dont have any children to take care of and maybe they dont want to have a child and take care of it all day maybe they want to get involved in politics trekking or killing, you are summing up a whole gender just with stereotyped opinions.





"Just" stereotyped opinions? That's all?

Stereotyping a whole gender? really?



I didn't think I was doing that...



what I'm saying is that the proportion of women/men in this game is annoyingly unrealistic, and the treatment of gender in general is off.



And, go ahead and shoot me, I don't think stereotypes are all that bad, and if you don't think you have any.....you're kidding yourself. I just make sure to tend and carve mine into good ones. So, yeah, when I speak to a woman, I generally presume she thinks like a woman, not like a man, and is driven more by female instincts--ie, nesting, seeking a capable provider--rather than male ones--ie, testosterone-driven, hunter. I know these are not conclusive, and I ALWAYS treat individuals on an individual basis, and am readilly prepared to adjust my prejudgements---but, if you're suggesting I should begin every interaction by giving weight to the possibility that any given individual is just as likely to be driven by male instincts as by female ones.....cmon man/woman (don't know your gender)......you're joking right?

[BeachxBit]

Beechwell wrote...

Ordo_Wells wrote...
Think about that.  Now, the Fantasy we are playing is relying more and more on a Fantastical view of the sexes than it is about a Fantastical Environment and Situation.  ANd I have to ask, why do we need, or want, a fantastical view of the sexes?  I mean, seeing men and women be brave and courageous IS useful, interesting, and emmersive; but seeing women as men....that's almost harmful. 

...I find the still all too common ideal of the perfect man as a gruff, though, heterosexual soldier much more harmful, and out of place in a society where physical fitness is of little actual importance.

Physical fitness SHOULD be of actual importance. Provided that life expectancy is something that concerns you.



(HI! Don't hate! I just can not help myself sometimes!)

[Zenthar Aseth]

Taritu wrote...

Zenthar Aseth wrote...

Taritu wrote...

Have you played the game? The warriors are ALL men except for the golem. The only slight stretch is Leiliana, who is an archer, but women can use bows, they just can't use the heaviest draw bows.

IRL men are better than women in hand to hand combat, in general. But that doesn't mean a specific women can't be better than the vast majority of men. Go look up who Wing Chun was, for example.

Men are stronger and faster on the run and have better 3d vision as well as usually having a reach and weight advantage. Women are more flexible, have a lower center of gravity and have better peripheral vision and more acute senses in general other than 3d.

Weapons do even things up quite a bit, as well.

In any case, this is a game, and if I want to play to a female warrior (I do), I will. But the original complaint is BS on the face of it, since every single warrior in the game is male, there's only one female combat NPC in the group and she uses a bow.

Look up who Wing Chung was? Why don't you tell us to look at the Amazons, Xena and Valkyrie, too?

Could you back up any of those claims? Women being more flexible, having a lower centre of gravity having a better peripheral vision and more acute senses in general other than 3d? Any sources?

I'm not here to do your internet searches.  A 2 second google on any of these things will confirm them.   If you want a somewhat old, but still accurate summary of male/female differences, try the book "Brain Sex", it includes the details.  Or pick up a psychology text book for perception difference and a sports physiology one for the other differences.

Men are better at some things (on average), women are better than others.  You seem to be trying to insist that men are physically superior in every way, they aren't.

In other words, you appear to be both ignorant and sexist, and proud of it.  There are real differences between men and women, both physical and mental, but you don't know what they are and you can't be bothered to do the basic research to find out what they are.  And your original point about male vs. female warriors in the game was simply wrong, since there is only one companion who is even slightly a warrior who is a female.

So tell me - why, in every sport, the males are the best? Why have we seperated men and women in sports? Because the women would have no chance if they competed against men. Why? Because men are physically superior. You are not here to google because you are not correct.. it would be hard to look for proof when there is none. I am not ignorant and I prefer "Realist" over sexist. I know the differences of males and females.

Lo and behold, it is you who proves to be ignorant! I am not the author of this topic, I never said there are female warriors in the game. Indeed, I have said 2-3 times that DA:O handles it very well and I have nothing to complain about.

[Ordo_Wells]

Woahhh.....HOld up....for the record I am NOT saying that men are physically superior to women in every way.



CONTEXT, PEOPLE: this is a Warrior, action game. Ok, it's about fighting a close combat war. We're not going around the countryside "experiencing" the landscape. We're going around, fighting and killing, over and over again.



I think women have some major superiorities to men, physically. But I'm not going to get into that here--it's off topic.

[Domi-kuin]

Inarai wrote...

WobblySpacePirate wrote...

Ordo_Wells wrote...

Before I begin, the disclaimer (the fact I have to post the disclaimer ought to signal that  something's out of whack)
I am not mean or disrespectful and hateful towards women.  Far far far from it.  So, don't go screaming sexism. 

I can't believe some of you folks actually discussing this guys' points. I would like to mildly point out that you are actually sexist. Being hateful and mean isn't the entire basis for being sexist, assuming blanket superiority over women is.

The entire commentary on how women could never possibly fill combat roles due to generalised physique limitations is so abysmally narrow-minded as to constitute an example of of mental disability.

You know, I can't disagre with that on any particular point...  I think this might be a case of...  What was it...  "Quoted for truth"?

Also quoted for truth. The OP is just probably some guy stuck in his mum's basement and hasn't had any female contact. Oh and, obviously gets beaten alot by girls IRL, so whats to game and feel superior.

Poor guy =(

[kansadoom]

Ordo_Wells wrote...

KANSADOOM WROTE:
No they are not the most important things but havent you noticed that all of the women you take with you are not in love with anyone and dont have any children to take care of and maybe they dont want to have a child and take care of it all day maybe they want to get involved in politics trekking or killing, you are summing up a whole gender just with stereotyped opinions.


"Just" stereotyped opinions? That's all?
Stereotyping a whole gender? really?

I didn't think I was doing that...

what I'm saying is that the proportion of women/men in this game is annoyingly unrealistic, and the treatment of gender in general is off.

And, go ahead and shoot me, I don't think stereotypes are all that bad, and if you don't think you have any.....you're kidding yourself. I just make sure to tend and carve mine into good ones. So, yeah, when I speak to a woman, I generally presume she thinks like a woman, not like a man, and is driven more by female instincts--ie, nesting, seeking a capable provider--rather than male ones--ie, testosterone-driven, hunter. I know these are not conclusive, and I ALWAYS treat individuals on an individual basis, and am readilly prepared to adjust my prejudgements---but, if you're suggesting I should begin every interaction by giving weight to the possibility that any given individual is just as likely to be driven by male instincts as by female ones.....cmon man/woman (don't know your gender)......you're joking right?

Firstly how do you know that females are generally treated differenly in this world, but yeah I was going a bit overboard with you stereotyping an entire gender and I am sorry that I said that. But let me bring up a different point just because some people in your party are female. Three if you dont include shale that doesnt mean their are lots of women out their caring for their familes, they are not going to show you that because I guess they would regard that as boring but Goldanna alistars sister is one of these people who look after children and nuture them and in this game their are usually more male warriors than females.

[Red Viking]

Zenthar Aseth wrote...

Drider-man wrote...

wrightgspot wrote...

He seems forget or just not know of viking battle maidens. Real females that could kicks all our asses in hand to hand combat. Some went with their husbands on raids while others forgo the whole married life and just lived for combat.

I'm sorry, you must be thinking of the mythological valkyries who were, among other things, not real. Actually, viking culture was pretty strict on the whole "women stay in the kitchen" thing, although to be fair the house was usually the de facto domain of the wife, even so far as it was usually the women who had the keys to the house (if it indeed had a lock at all, of course).

As for representation of women fighters, this game hits it pretty well I think. There's not so many of them as to make them as common as men, but other the other hand there's enough of them to establish that women can indeed be warriors and adventurers, at least in Ferelden.

LOL!! Viking battle maidens.. yeah right  Someone's been reading too much fantasy.. (Not aimed at you Drider.. you are correct that the "battle maidens" are Valkyries aka fantasy..)

Yeah, I was about to say, I'm Norwegian and a direct decendant of these guys.  I've never heard of a battle maiden outside of the Valkyries, who only existed in myth.

Ordo_Wells wrote...

Woahhh.....HOld up....for the record I am NOT saying that men are physically superior to women in every way.

CONTEXT,
PEOPLE: this is a Warrior, action game. Ok, it's about fighting a close
combat war. We're not going around the countryside "experiencing" the
landscape. We're going around, fighting and killing, over and over
again.

I think women have some major superiorities to men,
physically. But I'm not going to get into that here--it's off
topic.

First of all, I don't agree with what you said in your opening post.  Second of all, I honestly think you picked the wrong fight.  BioWare has a huge female fanbase so it doesn't really matter how reasonable you think your arguements concerning this subject are.  They're going to take it the wrong way and, quite frankly, I don't blame them.

Modifié par Red Viking, 24 novembre 2009 - 08:59 .

[Ordo_Wells]

BeachxBit wrote...

See, again, I agree with the OP. Sort of.

Men and women ARE different. I know that we're at a sociological stage now where the simple ideology behind that is taboo, but I can't necessarily say that I *personally* feel that moves us in the right direction. I think that there are a lot of stages on which men and women SHOULD be viewed as equals, except when they are not. lol. This is one of those cases.

If you are speaking of the subject from the perspective of "realism", like I said, while there were women involved in some battles, it certainly wasn't the norm. There were a lot of core and fundamental reasons for this. The highest of which being that by shear genetics men are stronger. they are bigger. it takes more hits to knock them down. Couple that with the fact that women are typically regarded as being the child rearers (and for good reasons, namely... anatomy.) Women would stay home to ensure the survival of their offspring... which is and always has been paramount to the thriving of any species.

I'm not saying that this makes women "weaker" (in a general sense) or inferior (obviously, because I AM a woman). But just that there are undeniable differences, and that there is a point where reverse sexisms gets to be a little much.

Right, exactly.   This "child bearer" aspect is undeniable, and we shouldn't disregard the impact it would have on other traits over the course of evolution or even from a creationist perspective.  These characters in the games though, they're kind of like men with Male veils placed over them.

ALso, a lot of our culture's obsessions over sexism and women's lib is in effort to pit us against eachother and make us easier to "handle" and manipulate.  Or, it's part of someone's personal issue they are trying to work out on other people instead of in their own life.  It makes men feel guilty for being men, and it makes women feel guilty for being women.  I can't tell you how many girls I've known who, embarassed,  felt they had to explain themselves for being girly, and wanting to be a mom or find a strong husband to start a family with.  Now, regardless of whether or not you think this kind of girlyness is infererior or weak (I think it's far from weak or inferior---raising kids is something I'm somewhat familiar with, and I know it's ****g HARD AS HELL, yet rewarding, and something I don't think men are generally capable of being as good at)...anyways, just ask

WHat is going on, when so many women are embarassed to say they want this life?

but that's off topic...


Ha! really?! Zevran's bisexual?  that's good, and funny, considering my complaint.  Still, I feel the game is unbalanced in that direction:  not enough "man" characters.  Even Alistair is kind of whiney, and Sten is so dark, brooding--all this is good, but something is missing.

[BeachxBit]

Red Viking wrote...

First of all, I don't agree with what you said in your opening post.  Second of all, I honestly think you picked the wrong fight.  BioWare has a huge female fanbase so it doesn't really matter how reasonable you think your arguements concerning this subject are.  They're going to take it the wrong way and, quite frankly, I don't blame them.

We're not ALL going to take it wrong, I didn't it. lol, to the contrary I think that on some levels he is right, but I've already said that, so in an effort not to be redundant... 

On another note,


I am continually at a loss as to what it is about message boards that makes people froth at the mouth. Ordo_Wells expressed an opinion... of which I am fairly sure he's entitled to. Naturally, anyone is equally as entitled to disagree with him, and express theirs, but I don't see why everybody (on either side of the issue) needs to get so rabid. You've got guys bugging out saying how "...men are physically superior!" and women chiming in that the whole of the issue is whether or not the OP can get a date. I mean, geez people, lets take it down a notch. lol.
 
It appears that anger and aggression are two qualities that suffer no gender bias. Unfortunately civility seems to have gone by the wayside.

[Ordo_Wells]

Physical Fitness is SOOOOOOOOO Important. Are you Crazy?



Look at this whole Health Care Dilemma. Look at kids with ADHD. Look at Cancer, Diabetes, Heart Disease, etc.



Ok....calming down....

[Zenthar Aseth]

BeachxBit wrote...
You've got guys bugging out saying how "...men are physically superior!" and women chiming in that the whole of the issue is whether or not the OP can get a date. 

In other words, you have guys staying on topic discussing it and women making off-topic completely unrelated "witty" remarks..

[BeachxBit]

Zenthar Aseth wrote...

BeachxBit wrote...
You've got guys bugging out saying how "...men are physically superior!" and women chiming in that the whole of the issue is whether or not the OP can get a date. 

In other words, you have guys staying on topic discussing it and women making off-topic completely unrelated "witty" remarks..

I find your ability to latch onto single sentences pretty impressive.

Stop generalizing. Not all men have stayed on topic, not all women have gone bat-****-crazy. I AM a woman and I agreed with your point for like the millionth time. I just disagreed with the delivery. That is all.

But sure, fine, I was just saying it seems like people should be able to have a debate without going for blood.

But I say this because I am girl. Naturally. hahaha.

[Ranik15]

SnakeStrike8 wrote...

Yeah, your argument doesn't hold much water, Ordo_Wells. I mean, there are no female warriors in your party, so...?

The OP also doesn't realize that the game isn't very realistic in such a portrayal either. Clearly he's never studied ancient wars, like the celts vs the romans. Sure the romans lost, but some of the greater celtic leaders were females, and the romans sometimes broke the status quo to avoid pissing off the crazy celts. I mean, when a group of warriors will fight the romans naked, it gives the impression of how confident they are.

[Ordo_Wells]

Domi-kuin wrote...

Inarai wrote...

WobblySpacePirate wrote...

Ordo_Wells wrote...

Before I begin, the disclaimer (the fact I have to post the disclaimer ought to signal that  something's out of whack)
I am not mean or disrespectful and hateful towards women.  Far far far from it.  So, don't go screaming sexism. 

I can't believe some of you folks actually discussing this guys' points. I would like to mildly point out that you are actually sexist. Being hateful and mean isn't the entire basis for being sexist, assuming blanket superiority over women is.

The entire commentary on how women could never possibly fill combat roles due to generalised physique limitations is so abysmally narrow-minded as to constitute an example of of mental disability.

You know, I can't disagre with that on any particular point...  I think this might be a case of...  What was it...  "Quoted for truth"?

Also quoted for truth. The OP is just probably some guy stuck in his mum's basement and hasn't had any female contact. Oh and, obviously gets beaten alot by girls IRL, so whats to game and feel superior.

Poor guy =(

OH MAN, THIS IS GOING TO BE GOOD

I'm not big on talking out loud abot these things, but if you're going to insist on putting up such weak, undeveloped, misrepresenting, PERSONALLY INSULTING, and wholly inaccurate criticism.... 
LIke anyone else who is incapable of listening and comprehending, and formulating fully formed ideas, you resort to personal insult, which I resent and do not deserve. 

First off, I don't live in my Mom's basement
Second of All, I

"Also quoted for truth. The OP is just probably some guy stuck in his
mum's basement and hasn't had any female contact. Oh and, obviously
gets beaten alot by girls IRL, so whats to game and feel superior."

Uhhhhh..my sex life...this morning, last night, two days ago.  Different girls.  Both awesome people, who I enjoy being around and respect.  I think you're probably projecting some of your own sexual frustrations.....I have all I need, and am content.

Beaten by girls.....in what?  What are you talking about?  I don't compete with girls.   What kind of world do you live in?  Get out while you can.  When I'm with a girlfriend we just have * fun, tease, banter, listen to music, go places, etc.  Compete?  Christ.  I get enough of that in the day-to-day, man.

Play games to feel superior?!?!?  Right.  Actually, if there is any one thing in my life that makes me feel INFERIOR, it's gaming.  I like to play because for some craaaaaazzzy reason I like carrying out the epic action and adventure in a RPG format. 

THEN
"I would like to mildly point out that you are actually sexist. Being
hateful and mean isn't the entire basis for being sexist, assuming
blanket superiority over women is."

OK, you're Bill OReilly, right?  how could you so grossly misrepresent what I've said ?  REad again. 
"Blanket Superiority"?    Read again. 
How is my talking about women's combat potential in a action-game format resonate with "blanket superiority"? 

I don't want to call you an idiot.  I really don't.  Maybe you just read someone elses post, where they also misrepresented my words and drew false conclusions.....

Also, Tell me, please, what is sexism?  Is it saying that Women and Men are fundamentally different?

[dannythefool]

I love your mildly insane, insecure style of writing. 5 stars top poster would read again

[Ordo_Wells]

BEACHBIT

"It appears that anger and aggression are two qualities that suffer no gender bias. Unfortunately civility seems to have gone by the wayside."



Thank's for this. I almost got caught up in the mess just now too. Well said.



On that note, I've got some peeps to attend to, and sat here a bit too long.



THanks again all, and keep up the dialogue, but please don't misquote and yadayada got to go!

[Ordo_Wells]

dannythefool wrote...

I love your mildly insane, insecure style of writing. 5 stars top poster would read again

Me?

Yes, many enjoy the mildness of my insanity, and find it comforting while somewhat edgy and unpredictable.

why am I still here? THis forum business is addicting. Escaping now.