189 réponses à ce sujet

[CerberusSoldier]

of course Garrus and Tali are fan service but hey this developer loves ME 1 fans

[Spanky Magoo]

Bioware didnt want the tali-wackers ( I love that one ) breaking down their doors and garrus is also a fan favorite. Balanced character selection be damned lol.

[CerberusSoldier]

Its clear bioware has a little bit a of lie when it comes to ME 2 squad in 3

[Sweawm]

I hate these kind of threads, because they should basically be called: Place all your hate here! Honestly, Bioware should lock threads like this because everyone here just rants on like a damn idiot (Biobleh, to name and shame, is a prime example of the BSN hater). Its evidently simple why Bioware kept only those certain characters in Mass Effect 3.

Garrus fills the Infiltrator role (The only other character who could of possibly taken that slot was Thane, and he's dying, introduced late ME2... it makes perfect sense to put Garrus as your Infiltrator role)

Tali fills the Engineer role because who the hell else will? Legion is way to important to the story overall and it would make no sense to place him on Shepard's squad. Plus, everyone would be equally raging if we got some new character to fill the Engineer role...

Vega fills the Solider role because Bioware at least want to make sure you have a direct combat squad member in case Ash died on Virmire.

Liara fills the Adapt role and again: who else would? Jack isn't exactly the most crucial of characters to the plot.

Sentinel, Vanguard roles are yet to be filled, but at least if Kaiden survived, you know you have a Sentinel.

Everyone is raging about their so and so favorite squad mate in Mass Effect 2 didn't make the cut for the third is completely understandable, but invalid. Bioware obviously went for the most long term characters to fill the necessary roles and kept the squad as minimal as possible. So please just shut up and stop spamming hate all over BSN.

[Mr. MannlyMan]

Well, Bioware sorta screwed it up when they made every squadmate killable in ME2.

They weren't going to make the majority of ME3's team out of squadmates from ME2 for this reason, and any characters they WERE going to bring back were always destined to be the most popular, for obvious reasons.

I guess many people now know what it feels like to have their favorite characters sidelined in a sequel. Guess what? You'll just have to Deal With It.

[Revan312]

It's because there's too damn many characters..

Relegating ME1 squad mates to cameo status and adding such a plethora in ME2 created this problem. If people couldn't see it coming from when the squad for 2 was announced then I don't know what to say.

The only way to make everybody happy would be to have EVERYONE be a squad mate in 3, which is ridiculous to even think about considering the voice work that would be needed for in depth convos with each one..

I already came to terms with cameo roles for most of the ME2 cast after they threw away the first's cast screen time in 2. Now, with ME1's squad all accounted for, it leaves even less room for ME2 members, let alone when considering the new squaddies.

Meh, as long as the story is epic and everything makes sense and isn't shoehorned into it, I'll be happy. But if this gets the "character shows up just so you can see them" treatment, like Parisini on Illium or, well, actually every one of the encounters on Illium, then I'll begin to roll my eyes..

[Fidget6]

People always complain about ME2 feeling like it was all for nothing, but have people ever seen just about any other trilogy? The second installment always feels awkward because it's pretty much just bridging the gap between the first and third. That's the point of the second installment in a trilogy. Everything was building up to what we're getting next month, so please quit whining, and if you are going to whine, at least wait until you see the finished product....

[DJBare]

CerberusSoldier wrote...

of course Garrus and Tali are fan service but hey this developer loves ME 1 fans

Marketing guy: you heard me!, put Tali and garrus back in!

Yes, the most popular consesus won the vote, and certainly best from a sales point of view.

Modifié par DJBare, 11 février 2012 - 02:18 .

[HiroVoid]

Tali and Garrus are fan-favorites. It's already been admitted that the suicide mission caused a lot of problems for importing as far as being able to make the ME2 sqaudmates too important.

[mereck7980]

Sweawm wrote...

Everyone is raging about their so and so favorite squad mate in Mass Effect 2 didn't make the cut for the third is completely understandable, but invalid. Bioware obviously went for the most long term characters to fill the necessary roles and kept the squad as minimal as possible. So please just shut up and stop spamming hate all over BSN.

I don't think its an issue of "my favorite" squad mate not "making the cut".  Its more like, NONE of the new ME2 squadmates made the cut.  To be fair, none of us have played the full game yet so we have no idea exactly how the plot will handle the all the character arcs.  However, based off every thing I have heard, read, and been told about the game it seems plain that all the ME2 squaddies (minus Garrus and Tali) will be not be given prominent parts to play in ME3.  

To be fair, I really like all the characters (ME1 and ME2).  I just wanted to see each character's story arc fully fleshed out and resolved well.  They don't have to be on the Normandy or in my squad.  Just give each character their due.  It could very well be that all the ME2 squadmates do get their due, given all the info we have at present it just doesn't seem like this will be the case.  Hopefully ME3 and BW proves this to be incorrect.  

[Labrev]

Seboist wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Garrus is obviously because "meh, we brought him along this far" and Tali is because of fan service.

I'm pretty sure I remeber bioware saying Tali was fanservice. Originally she was meant to have a smaller role, but they decided that the fan out cry would be too big.

You're correct.

And this is where saving posts has value, straight from "Winning Posts by HYR" ...

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

Not really a big deal. Sounds like they were going back and forth and that was just their deciding factor. Not like they completely abandoned some big plan they had for her just because her fanbase wanted her back. Besides which, I think she may be optional anyway.


I agree with Spiros on this one, though. If it's better for the character-arc and story, many squadmates are probably better off out of the permasquad. In fact, someone not getting their favorites back on the Normandy really is not missing all that much. Compare DLC Liara to a ME2 LI Squadmate...

Liara in LotSB --
Dialgoue pre-mission.
Dialogue during mission.
Dialogue post-mission (& love scene for Liaramancers).

ME2 Squadmate, romance option --
~ 4 conversations on Normandy.
Love scene.
Mission banter.

Other than party-dialogue, you really do not miss much.

 

[Asenza]

Mr. MannlyMan wrote...

Well, Bioware sorta screwed it up when they made every squadmate killable in ME2.

They weren't going to make the majority of ME3's team out of squadmates from ME2 for this reason, and any characters they WERE going to bring back were always destined to be the most popular, for obvious reasons.

I guess many people now know what it feels like to have their favorite characters sidelined in a sequel. Guess what? You'll just have to Deal With It.

One of the ME2 exclusives being sidelined in ME3 is not the same as ME2's treatment of Kaidan and Ashley because uh... well, ME3 is the last time we'll be seeing any of them!

Being sidelined in the finale is final!

Modifié par Asenza, 11 février 2012 - 02:36 .

[Revan312]

Fidget6 wrote...

People always complain about ME2 feeling like it was all for nothing, but have people ever seen just about any other trilogy? The second installment always feels awkward because it's pretty much just bridging the gap between the first and third. That's the point of the second installment in a trilogy. Everything was building up to what we're getting next month, so please quit whining, and if you are going to whine, at least wait until you see the finished product....

Most trilogies leave the protagonist and his/her friends in a very dark spot at the end of the second act. ME2 ended with the specific threat of the game (collectors) being taken care of and the slate being wiped relatively clean for the next installment.

It felt like filler as there wasn't much connection between the baby fetus reaper terminator mutant android skeleton baby and the actual reaper invasion. It was a side/pet project of Harbinger's anyway, so the plot itself felt like semi-superfluous fluff.

Make most of the squaddies from it relegated to cameo status and it exacerbates the feeling further. It really looks like (unless the collector base decision has a heavy role to play) that the entire second game could have been skipped, at least to me anyway. The decisions and skimpy plot from ME2 might have a big impact, I'm not sure, but I wouldn't bet on it

Asenza wrote...

Having your favorite character sidelined in a sequel is not the same as ME2's treatment of Kaidan and Ashley because uh... well, there will be a game after that one!

Being sidelined in the finale is... final.

Except for Mass Effect: Miranda's Junk is coming in 2013 and then Mass Effect: Joker's Last Laugh in 2014 

Modifié par Revan312, 11 février 2012 - 02:30 .

[CuddilyEvil93]

The ME2 squad was just a merc band basically. They were all bought and paid for for just that mission. None were truly loyal to Shepard. He didn't choose them and they didn't join because of him.

The ME1 guys were Shepard's crew. They may have had their own personal reasons for chasing Saren, but they all stuck with Shep because of Shep.

With everything on the line, Shepard needs they people he trusts most. That's the ME1 team.

[Sweawm]

mereck7980 wrote...

Sweawm wrote...

Everyone is raging about their so and so favorite squad mate in Mass Effect 2 didn't make the cut for the third is completely understandable, but invalid. Bioware obviously went for the most long term characters to fill the necessary roles and kept the squad as minimal as possible. So please just shut up and stop spamming hate all over BSN.

I don't think its an issue of "my favorite" squad mate not "making the cut".  Its more like, NONE of the new ME2 squadmates made the cut.  To be fair, none of us have played the full game yet so we have no idea exactly how the plot will handle the all the character arcs.  However, based off every thing I have heard, read, and been told about the game it seems plain that all the ME2 squaddies (minus Garrus and Tali) will be not be given prominent parts to play in ME3.  

To be fair, I really like all the characters (ME1 and ME2).  I just wanted to see each character's story arc fully fleshed out and resolved well.  They don't have to be on the Normandy or in my squad.  Just give each character their due.  It could very well be that all the ME2 squadmates do get their due, given all the info we have at present it just doesn't seem like this will be the case.  Hopefully ME3 and BW proves this to be incorrect.  

Does a character really needed to be carted along with Shepard to play a promient role? Remember: Bioware promised more than simple cameos (Character possibly walks past Shepard and waves), they promised that these characters would return at some point as temporary squadmates (Perhaps or perhaps not. All the details mix up after a while).
In the newest trailer (Possibly the best offical trailer so far by the way), we see plenty of cameos (Even Jacob. I honestly think few would complain if Jacob fell through a gap in space and time and never was mentioned ever again after ME2). Legion seems to get plenty of screen time as well.

The original intention of my post was to curb the childish ranting going on here. Asking for every single squadmate to come back is invalid, because your not the only one with a favorite character (If everyone got there way, the squad in Mass Effect 3 would be over 20 people...).
There are clearly evident reasons why Bioware couldn't pin some of the ME2 cast in (Miranda maybe would of made the cut, but with the Virmire Surviour returning as a Spectre, there would be a real clash with two characters going for that second in command role, and a Spectre would clearly win out.), because they could help Shepard more off the Normandy.
With the Geth now embroiled in Civil War; would it really make sense for Legion to be running around with Shepard on Thessa, Palvan, etc? Wouldn't it be more crucial that Legion was actually with the Collective?
With Cerberus now clearly the enemy, wouldn't it make more sense for Miranda and Jacob to be pursuing Cerberus instead of doing something else? You could posssibly expect for them to both be at your side when you finally go to take down the Illusive Man.

Meanwhile, It makes perfect sense for Garrus and Tali to be on the team (Nobody ever said that they would be on the Normandy straight after you leave Earth. You possibly have to get somewhere in the story lines before they join you. That was shown in the James Vega video. Garrus possibly only joins Shepard on Palvan.). Perhaps there will even be an option to REJECT their offer to join Shepard. PERHAPS you can have ME2 squad members stay aboard the Normandy after you complete their character arcs.

merck is right about saying we don't know where Bioware will take this, but I still think that squad members don't actually have to be on the squad to play an actual role in ME3.

[Someone With Mass]

Sweawm wrote...

I hate these kind of threads, because they should basically be called: Place all your hate here! Honestly, Bioware should lock threads like this because everyone here just rants on like a damn idiot (Biobleh, to name and shame, is a prime example of the BSN hater). Its evidently simple why Bioware kept only those certain characters in Mass Effect 3.

Garrus fills the Infiltrator role (The only other character who could of possibly taken that slot was Thane, and he's dying, introduced late ME2... it makes perfect sense to put Garrus as your Infiltrator role)

Tali fills the Engineer role because who the hell else will? Legion is way to important to the story overall and it would make no sense to place him on Shepard's squad. Plus, everyone would be equally raging if we got some new character to fill the Engineer role...

Vega fills the Solider role because Bioware at least want to make sure you have a direct combat squad member in case Ash died on Virmire.

Liara fills the Adapt role and again: who else would? Jack isn't exactly the most crucial of characters to the plot.

Sentinel, Vanguard roles are yet to be filled, but at least if Kaiden survived, you know you have a Sentinel.

Everyone is raging about their so and so favorite squad mate in Mass Effect 2 didn't make the cut for the third is completely understandable, but invalid. Bioware obviously went for the most long term characters to fill the necessary roles and kept the squad as minimal as possible. So please just shut up and stop spamming hate all over BSN.

There are two other characters that fills two more slots when it comes to tech and biotics.

People should be glad that BioWare even considered keeping all the other squadmates in the game in the first place. They admitted themselves that they created a mess with the suicide mission and repeating ME2's formula in ME3 won't help anything.

I think it's far better now when they've decided to write the characters around the story and not the story as a side mission while you're talking to the dozens of characters and doing their missions, because there's no way they could have written them all back on the Normandy in any believable way without compromising the story they're trying to tell about the Reapers.

Most squadmates would have had like three dialogues and a few spots here and there on missions at best.

[Spanky Magoo]

CuddilyEvil93 wrote...

The ME2 squad was just a merc band basically. They were all bought and paid for for just that mission. None were truly loyal to Shepard. He didn't choose them and they didn't join because of him.

The ME1 guys were Shepard's crew. They may have had their own personal reasons for chasing Saren, but they all stuck with Shep because of Shep.

With everything on the line, Shepard needs they people he trusts most. That's the ME1 team.

VS on Horizon and Miranda at the end of the Suicide Mission.

VS: Derp, your with Cerberus? You traitor! real loyal that one

Miranda: Resigns from Cerberus and agrees with shepards judegment ( If you destroy the CB )

I dont trust the Alliance.

[Golden Owl]

Seboist wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Garrus is obviously because "meh, we brought him along this far" and Tali is because of fan service.

I'm pretty sure I remeber bioware saying Tali was fanservice. Originally she was meant to have a smaller role, but they decided that the fan out cry would be too big.

You're correct.

Well...that sux...I'm not impressed....Tali gets the Liara treatment next?

[mereck7980]

Sweawm wrote...

merck is right about saying we don't know where Bioware will take this, but I still think that squad members don't actually have to be on the squad to play an actual role in ME3.

I agree with the idea that a character doesn't have to be in your squad to be featured promiently in the story.  There are a lot of characters that don't really need to be on the Normandy:

Wrex - He is trying to unfiy the Krogan on Tuchanka.  Shep is obviously going to work with him to bring the Krogan into the war and to try and smooth over the problems between the Krogan, Turians, and Salarians so they can all work toghether to defeat the Reapers.  He couldn't do this on the Normandy.

Legion - He will be featured promiently in any attempt Shepard makes to try and recruit the Geth as allies.  Legion will also play a large role in trying to end the hostilites between the Quarians and the Geth.  In order for Legion to pull all this off he will need to stay with the Geth when not working with Shepard to accomplish these goals.

Tali - As much as the Talimancers might balk at this idea, she would prove far more benifical in the Migrant Fleet than on the Normandy.  Her starting position in the story would depend on how her trial ended in ME2, but ultimately she will probably end up as an Admiral if Shep can broker a peace agreement between the Quarians and the Geth.  

Mordin - Mordin's most important role in ME2 was creating the backstory that could lead to the possible curing of the Genophage.  He will almost certainly feature promiently in the Krogan/Salarian/Turian drama, and if he lives his skills as a scientist will probably be put to better use on SurKesh after he finishes working with Shep. 

I could keep going on.  The only characters who really need to be on the Normandy are EDI, VS, and Liara.  Liara is kind of iffy too.  Would the war effort be better served if she spent her time working as the Shadow Broker instead of killing husks with Shepard?  

My hope is that Miranda, Jacob, Thane, Samara, etc get more than a short sidequest mission (aka a cameo) just so BW can say they were in the game.  

[implodinggoat]

That's weird....

I swear I already posted this thread a long time ago.

Except I didn't call Bioware liars because I didn't want Stanley Woo to lock down my thread.

[mereck7980]

implodinggoat wrote...

That's weird....

I swear I already posted this thread a long time ago.

Except I didn't call Bioware liars because I didn't want Stanley Woo to lock down my thread.

If there is one thing the BSN is good at it is rehashing the same issue over and over again.  

[_symphony]

I have nothing to complain, got mostly the same squad of ME1, minus wrex and the one nuked in Virmire. The squad in ME2 was just too big and some people didn't make any sense to recruit, a thief? a yet-another-assassin?

Honestly, better to have a smaller squad.

Modifié par _symphony, 11 février 2012 - 03:27 .

[Tazzmission]

Seboist wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Garrus is obviously because "meh, we brought him along this far" and Tali is because of fan service.

I'm pretty sure I remeber bioware saying Tali was fanservice. Originally she was meant to have a smaller role, but they decided that the fan out cry would be too big.

You're correct.

from last year
Chris just posted this on the ME Marathon stream (I know, it aint twitter, sue me)

ChrisPriestly posted:11:25 EviLChrisPriestly: Hmm.. should I reveal a minor Tali game secret? For a donation?

11:27 EviLChrisPriestly: Cool, but doesn't impact gameplay

11:29 EviLChrisPriestly: This really doesn't spoil ME3 at all. Casey would kill me

11:29 EviLChrisPriestly: Ok. Minor thing that I think is cool.

11:30 EviLChrisPriestly: Tali was not going to be a party character until the Community (yes, including the Talimancers) demanded her. She becmae a party member.

11:31 EviLChrisPriestly: I thought so. The COmmunity wanted it, so they got it. 

11:32 EviLChrisPriestly: Well let me tell you about teh quarians. They... oh, hello Casey. *signoff*

and to think bioware never listens ( eye roll)

Modifié par Tazzmission, 11 février 2012 - 03:35 .

[_symphony]

Tazzmission wrote...
and to think bioware never listens ( eye roll)

Is a double edged sword though.

Modifié par _symphony, 11 février 2012 - 03:38 .

[Biobleh]

BW stood in front of the fans and dropped his pants.

The Garrus and Tali fans got on their knees. The other fans walked away.

Outcome? Tali and Garrus are squadmates in ME3. Their fans get mayo.

Thats the true story.