376 réponses à ce sujet

[Poison_Berrie]

Zu Long wrote...

See but it's not really a lack of effort. An XBox 360 user is not getting anything more than I am. They get the same control scheme.
What you guys are actually complaining about is not getting MORE effort for the same amount of money everyone else paid. That's not the same as being ignored.

Because it's not the same effort. More effort is put in getting the 360 control scheme to work, then when it's time to work on the other platform's control scheme they just port the thing over with very little extra effort. 
It's not about us being ignored, it's about us expecting that at the very least our control schemes get optimized for our platform.

Have we really come so far that we're okay with them just ignoring that the controle scheme for a PC, and (I think) to lesser extent a PS3, are not indentical to that of a 360. That things that work well on a 360 might be an annoyance to what the PC gamer is used to.

[tangalin]

Zu Long wrote...

DragonRageGT wrote...

Zu Long wrote...

Poison_Berrie wrote...

Zu Long wrote...

I get tired of people whining over textures and spending the extra .02 seconds it takes to navigate through the ESC key like someones on a crusade against them. Guess we both get to deal with it.

I think the issues with UI adaptation are somewhat different than you imagine them to be.

Look at it this way: 
For the XBox 360 they map and work all controls to work smooth and as easy as the controller allows it. Menu Navigation is designed so that you can easily move through it with your thumbpad(s). You can probably scroll through text on the 360, and the limited hotkeys are used as best as they can. 
Then when it's time to do the PC (and I imagine the PS3 gets the same treatement), they remap the keys and allow the mouse to do the work of the thumbpads. For the rest there is no optimization to allow the other control schemes the same ease as the 360.

I'm not saying it's a dealbreaker, it's a sign of poor porting and rather poor show to not take the same effort for the other platforms.

Why is it "poor" for them to not invest a whole bunch of time remapping the controls? Or, as most people seem to desire, creating a whole new set of controls. If there was a difference in response that would be one thing, but there isn't, and my mouse controls better than the thumbstick, hands down.

I guess I just don't see how having to use the same control scheme mapped onto my keyboard is some kind of giant snub by Bioware.

What is this whole bunch of time you keep saying? It should be very simple for the company which make Neverwinter Nights. A game which was greatly implemented for the PC, in every possible way, patched to perfection and had ONLY 36 (thirty fraking six!!!!) slots in the quick bar.

It should be real easy for them to make it. Hell, ME1 had it.  What's wrong with this people? As the years goes by, those kind of features should improve not regress! Oh wait, perhaps they never really played a PC game.

As a non-expert  in PC programming, I assume it must take time and effort by a programmer to add extra functionality to to a control scheme for a single platform. If someone out there makes video games and knows better, feel free to correct me.

And yes, ME1 had it. When it disappeared in ME2, I barely noticed. It helped that I wasn't constantly having to open my inventory to delete all the junk loot. My guess is that the reason they didn't include it is that they felt spending the time it had taken to do that wasn't worth it compared to spending that time making the content better across ALL the platforms.

I do, and it does.

[DragonRageGT]

tangalin wrote...

Zu Long wrote...
As a non-expert  in PC programming, I assume it must take time and effort by a programmer to add extra functionality to to a control scheme for a single platform. If someone out there makes video games and knows better, feel free to correct me.

And yes, ME1 had it. When it disappeared in ME2, I barely noticed. It helped that I wasn't constantly having to open my inventory to delete all the junk loot. My guess is that the reason they didn't include it is that they felt spending the time it had taken to do that wasn't worth it compared to spending that time making the content better across ALL the platforms.

I do, and it does.

It's like this. How much time and effort did they need to use ME2 animation library in Dragon Age 2? How much time and effort would you need to use something that was already done and very well done in other games you have already developed? I doubt it would be any harder.

As for ME1 loot, instead of deleting them, just go to the quartermaster at the Normady, select SELL and spam left clicks on ACCEPT. Real fast, real easy. Just be careful not to sell the good stuff but it is ordained by quality so anything bellow X must go! hehe

[DRUNK_CANADIAN]

Reason is simple...money (Microsoft Xbox division pays money for earlier access or specific content)! Although it is pretty big BS when you think about it, between Origin screwing PC gamers and well ME1 being nonexistent on PS3 to my knowledge. I don't mind waiting for the demo, but I wish Origin wouldn't exist and instead something more user friendly was present.

[Meshakhad2]

Why wouldn't they? Mass Effect is an Xbox exclusive.

[Zu Long]

Poison_Berrie wrote...

Zu Long wrote...

See but it's not really a lack of effort. An XBox 360 user is not getting anything more than I am. They get the same control scheme.
What you guys are actually complaining about is not getting MORE effort for the same amount of money everyone else paid. That's not the same as being ignored.

Because it's not the same effort. More effort is put in getting the 360 control scheme to work, then when it's time to work on the other platform's control scheme they just port the thing over with very little extra effort. 
It's not about us being ignored, it's about us expecting that at the very least our control schemes get optimized for our platform.

No see right there. "Extra effort." They designed one control scheme that works the same (and works quite well) for all three systems. Why should they put "extra effort" into changing it for the PC for no extra money? Sure it would be nice, but they can use that same time and energy to make the whole game better.

Have we really come so far that we're okay with them just ignoring that the controle scheme for a PC, and (I think) to lesser extent a PS3, are not indentical to that of a 360. That things that work well on a 360 might be an annoyance to what the PC gamer is used to.

So far from where? Not getting the game on the PC at all? Because I remember that. Having to wait six months to a year later to get the same game? i remember that too.

I can understand people wanting keyboard shortcuts and that on actual ports- games that didn't start on PC platform at all. Hell, I can understand wanting them on games that do start on the same platform. But in this case your asking for changes that make absolutely no difference to the quality of the gameplay. They are cosmetic niceties. And it's fine if you want them. I'm not saying people shouldn't. I'm saying there are people in this topic who act like it was a crime or a huge slight that Bioware didn't include them. it's really not a big deal, an afterthought at most, compared to the experience of the game itself.

[ediskrad327]

wasn't the whole demo early access a Microsoft decision?

[Poison_Berrie]

Zu Long wrote...

No see right there. "Extra effort." They designed one control scheme that works the same (and works quite well) for all three systems. Why should they put "extra effort" into changing it for the PC for no extra money? Sure it would be nice, but they can use that same time and energy to make the whole game better.

No they design the 360 control scheme and work it out well for the 360. 
It's functional on the other platform, but each does not get the same effort. Which was my point. They take a lot of care to get the 360 scheme working smooth, easy and intiutive. But the others just have to do with it working smooth (which I must say is the bare minimum one should expect).
And the strange thing is they do change the powerwheel to not block your view and add power hotkeys, but than can't actually add a few extra keybindings?

So far from where? Not getting the game on the PC at all? Because I remember that. Having to wait six months to a year later to get the same game? i remember that too.

From a time where they actually acknowledged that the platforms have controls that do work/feel differently.

When you adapt a PC game to the 360, you don't just stick the PC controls to the buttons/sticks of your controller. They recreate it to accomadate for that scheme. 
Why then does this so often not work the otherway around?

[GnusmasTHX]

It does. I play it on PC and it's fine.

[DragonRageGT]

Zu Long wrote...

I can understand people wanting keyboard shortcuts and that on actual ports- games that didn't start on PC platform at all. Hell, I can understand wanting them on games that do start on the same platform. But in this case your asking for changes that make absolutely no difference to the quality of the gameplay. They are cosmetic niceties. And it's fine if you want them. I'm not saying people shouldn't. I'm saying there are people in this topic who act like it was a crime or a huge slight that Bioware didn't include them. it's really not a big deal, an afterthought at most, compared to the experience of the game itself.

Let me guess, you have never played ME2 on Insanity, have you? And with no pausing as well? And as I said, imagine what the developers would say if the programs they use on their PC to write games did not have full keyboard/mouse functionality.

Perhaps Tangolin could answer that.

[tangalin]

Poison_Berrie wrote...

Zu Long wrote...

No see right there. "Extra effort." They designed one control scheme that works the same (and works quite well) for all three systems. Why should they put "extra effort" into changing it for the PC for no extra money? Sure it would be nice, but they can use that same time and energy to make the whole game better.

No they design the 360 control scheme and work it out well for the 360. 
It's functional on the other platform, but each does not get the same effort. Which was my point. They take a lot of care to get the 360 scheme working smooth, easy and intiutive. But the others just have to do with it working smooth (which I must say is the bare minimum one should expect).
And the strange thing is they do change the powerwheel to not block your view and add power hotkeys, but than can't actually add a few extra keybindings?

So far from where? Not getting the game on the PC at all? Because I remember that. Having to wait six months to a year later to get the same game? i remember that too.

From a time where they actually acknowledged that the platforms have controls that do work/feel differently.

When you adapt a PC game to the 360, you don't just stick the PC controls to the buttons/sticks of your controller. They recreate it to accomadate for that scheme. 
Why then does this so often not work the otherway around?

Just because you dont find the PC control scheme easy and intuitive, doesn't mean they didn't put effort in. Sounds like you just chose the wrong platform to play on. The PC controls are EXTREMELY easy and intuitive for me, more so than in many PC games.

[G0ldmember]

Jarrett Lee wrote...

MadLaughter wrote...

I wish Jarrett, or someone like him, was our community manager instead of Priestly.

Aw c'mon, that's not a nice thing to say. Chris is tireless in his devotion to the community. Every time he comes to see me I know he wants me to let him dish on some uber secret information for you guys, and I have to say "no not yet!". Plus he must have the skin of an elephant. Mine is like tissue paper.

As I said before, I greatly respect Chris for the impossible job he is doing and I'm pretty sure MadLaughter didnt mean anything with it. Its just that his comment on this (touchy) subject was unwise and uninformative and shouldnt have been made.

[CDRSkyShepard]

G0ldmember wrote...

Jarrett Lee wrote...

*snip*

Look Jarrett, I get it. Multiple companies, multiple higher-ups, multiple descisions that most of the time conflict with one and another even when its not meant to do that. Its just...sigh...you cant really look at it all and say with a straight face that a everyone gets an even piece of the pie.

Now I have no illusion that something like that is even possible to accomplish with any game, but the balance with ME3 tips heavily towards the 360 and it makes me as a PS3 gamer sad. You cant take away that feeling (though your much better contructed response did ease some of my anger), neither can Chris or any other Bioware / EA employee at this point.

I just dont feel as appreciated as the 360 gamers. Like we came late to the party and have to make due with the left overs...

This is what happens when Microsoft has been involved from the beginning...it was supposed to be their game exclusively. If things had gone that way, you - as a PS3 player - would not get to experience the game at all without the 360. As a consequence, they probably have a lot more "ins" to this early access stuff than Sony or anyone else. Unfortunately, this means PS3 players will always get the short end of the Mass Effect stick. There's not much point in lamenting it, because that's just the way it is. I know it's little comfort now, but we have to look at this realistically.

I'm a 360 gamer that has played the demo, so is it easy for me to talk? Yes. Absolutely. I won't deny it. But I got my 360 for the sole purpose of playing Mass Effect. (I tried to play it on the PC first, then discovered my graphics card had good enough performance, but was the wrong brand and thus not compatible...much frustration ensued.) Now that I have a better computer, I also play it on the PC...man, PC gamers have it good. They get to do awesome stuff with this game and it looks fantastic. There's perks to each platform, and we must remember this every time someone says "my platform is getting shafted."

But the PS3...obviously you guys get the REALLY short end of the stick. Microsoft still owns ME1, so they can't port it to PS3. I hope that changes sometime soon...because you guys deserve to be able to play it. It's a tease that you can only play ME2, in my opinion. You guys also have the same console limitations as us 360 players, and you don't even get to play the full trilogy or have Kinect-type support. As far as the Kinect goes...I don't think Sony has voice recognition software with its equivalent, the Move, so it wouldn't work anyway. That's just what happens when you own different platforms. But, as a PS3 player, you can play games I can't, and you can play blurays. Lol. Everything has its advantages and disadvantages...it just seems the Xbox's main advantage right now is Microsoft having their corporate hands on everything. (A double-edged sword, mind you)

[Hydralisk]

Because Microsoft has more money to encourage EA to do promotions like this?

[Zu Long]

Poison_Berrie wrote...

No they design the 360 control scheme and work it out well for the 360. 
It's functional on the other platform, but each does not get the same effort. Which was my point. They take a lot of care to get the 360 scheme working smooth, easy and intiutive. But the others just have to do with it working smooth (which I must say is the bare minimum one should expect).
And the strange thing is they do change the powerwheel to not block your view and add power hotkeys, but than can't actually add a few extra keybindings?

I don't understand how it's not intuitive. AWSD to move, shift to power select, esc to go to menu, right click to aim, left click to shoot, numbers for hot keys, r for reload, spacebar for everything else. That's simple, easy, and the basic control scheme pretty much every shooter has. Q and E control companions is basically the only difference. It's really simple and uncomplicated.

From a time where they actually acknowledged that the platforms have controls that do work/feel differently.

When you adapt a PC game to the 360, you don't just stick the PC controls to the buttons/sticks of your controller. They recreate it to accomadate for that scheme. 
Why then does this so often not work the otherway around?

Because the PC has about a million extra keys. When you design a game just for the PC, you can add in a whole bunch of extra features with their own keys. When it comes time to move that game to the XBox or PS3, now you have to map all those features onto 8-10 buttons. It generally doesn't work very well. I've tried playing DA:O on XBox, and it sucks compared to the PC. Thats why most of the time PC to Console ports aren't done. Console to PC ports at least have the advantage of knowing you have as many buttons as you need.

But when developing for 3 systems simultaneously, the most practical way to do it would be to design a control scheme that works on all of them from the get-go, and that's what Bioware has done. Once you HAVE that control scheme, adding extra features to it for one platform means extra time and money for THAT platform. Given a limited amount of time and money, it's not suprising that resources are shifted to places that improve the game on all platforms.

[tangalin]

On the upside for people who want Kinect and are going to play on PC, Microsoft is making a Kinect for Windows SDK, so I can definetely see some modders adding it into the PC version at some point.

[MadLaughter]

I'm sure Chris works hard,that's great. I just feel that it's possible to find someone who works hard AND doesn't post things like "Sometimes I question the intelligence of this community...."

[Zu Long]

DragonRageGT wrote...

Zu Long wrote...

I can understand people wanting keyboard shortcuts and that on actual ports- games that didn't start on PC platform at all. Hell, I can understand wanting them on games that do start on the same platform. But in this case your asking for changes that make absolutely no difference to the quality of the gameplay. They are cosmetic niceties. And it's fine if you want them. I'm not saying people shouldn't. I'm saying there are people in this topic who act like it was a crime or a huge slight that Bioware didn't include them. it's really not a big deal, an afterthought at most, compared to the experience of the game itself.

Let me guess, you have never played ME2 on Insanity, have you? And with no pausing as well? And as I said, imagine what the developers would say if the programs they use on their PC to write games did not have full keyboard/mouse functionality.

Perhaps Tangolin could answer that.

Uh...I've done one run on insanity, for the achievement and for the lulz. In general, I don't mess around with high difficulties though. I play games mostly for the stories these days. Why?

[tangalin]

DragonRageGT wrote...

Zu Long wrote...

I can understand people wanting keyboard shortcuts and that on actual ports- games that didn't start on PC platform at all. Hell, I can understand wanting them on games that do start on the same platform. But in this case your asking for changes that make absolutely no difference to the quality of the gameplay. They are cosmetic niceties. And it's fine if you want them. I'm not saying people shouldn't. I'm saying there are people in this topic who act like it was a crime or a huge slight that Bioware didn't include them. it's really not a big deal, an afterthought at most, compared to the experience of the game itself.

Let me guess, you have never played ME2 on Insanity, have you? And with no pausing as well? And as I said, imagine what the developers would say if the programs they use on their PC to write games did not have full keyboard/mouse functionality.

Perhaps Tangolin could answer that.

I have played it on Insanity. I have not, nor do I intend to play on insanity while intentionally removing control options... thats just silly. If you're playing like that, no wonder you thought the PC version sucked... thats like sawing your controller in half on a console version...

[Drinking Shepard]

G0ldmember wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

No we're not.

Thanks for asking though.

Chris, I've always immensly respected you and the role you fill by trying to bring order to chaos in this community. I'm constantly amazed at how thick your skin must be with the verbal abuse you and Bioware have to endure from time to time. But this is where I am drawing a line. This constant favoring by Bioware/EA towards Xbox 360 players is really, REALLY getting old and even I am starting to get annoyed.

• PS3 gamers dont get to experience the full story with the absense of characters like Conrad Verner, Captain Kirrahe and other nice little trinckets that make this game so great
• I ordered the "Art of the Mass Effect Universe" hardcover book with Amazon UK, which comes with a DLC....Xbox 360 only
• I bought BF3 solely to get to play the demo early. I havent finished the single player, never went online. I only got it for the ME3 demo. And what do I see? Shop clerks and Facebook users get to play it before me, for free and yes...again Xbox 360 only
• Voice control...Xbox 360 only. Yes I know the kinect has it built in to support without much hassle for the developer. That doesnt make it suck less for us PS3 gamers
• Not a single Mass Effect Avatar for our profiles exists on PSN. NOT ONE! NOT EVEN IF YOU WANT TO PAY FOR IT! But on XBLive...etc, etc...

I'm probably missing a few things but this list is enough for me to prove a point. Throw us PS3 gamers a bone already!

Your points are all valid and they have nothing to say against so don't expect any reaction from Chris or anybody <_<

I play on PC and bought Battlefield 3 for the game, not for the demo, but indeed, the "early access" thing, as cool as it sounded then, proved to be a freaking bullsh*t joke. It's all about motherf***** xbox in the end

Modifié par Drinking Shepard, 12 février 2012 - 01:17 .

[_symphony]

MadLaughter wrote...

I'm sure Chris works hard,that's great. I just feel that it's possible to find someone who works hard AND doesn't post things like "Sometimes I question the intelligence of this community...."

What. Are you saying this community is an intelligent one?

[tangalin]

Zu Long wrote...

DragonRageGT wrote...

Zu Long wrote...

I can understand people wanting keyboard shortcuts and that on actual ports- games that didn't start on PC platform at all. Hell, I can understand wanting them on games that do start on the same platform. But in this case your asking for changes that make absolutely no difference to the quality of the gameplay. They are cosmetic niceties. And it's fine if you want them. I'm not saying people shouldn't. I'm saying there are people in this topic who act like it was a crime or a huge slight that Bioware didn't include them. it's really not a big deal, an afterthought at most, compared to the experience of the game itself.

Let me guess, you have never played ME2 on Insanity, have you? And with no pausing as well? And as I said, imagine what the developers would say if the programs they use on their PC to write games did not have full keyboard/mouse functionality.

Perhaps Tangolin could answer that.

Uh...I've done one run on insanity, for the achievement and for the lulz. In general, I don't mess around with high difficulties though. I play games mostly for the stories these days. Why?

I'm pretty sure he was talking to me, since I am apparently "trolling"

[Battlepope190]

Bioware can deny it all they want, but PS3 owners ARE getting shafted. I mean c'mon, there isn't even a PSN equivalent for the Xbox Avatar junk in the Collector's Edition.

They could at least toss in some themes and PSN avatars, but nope.

[Comsky159]

I was too happy that ME2 and ME3 were being made on ps3 to care about pandering issues really. In saying that it does seem to get stamped on pretty regularly when it counts. e.g. Skyrim basically crashes after 50 hours on ps3, Valve either ignores us or makes utterly deplorable, insulting ports selling at ridiculous prices.

Bioware at least has given us a decent port and made all integral DLC available for us. I played the first on my run down PC and was disappointed with how many of the little things I adored/took pride in were ommitted (Kirrahe, Verner, Parasini), but I still enjoyed and appreciated what Bioware took the effort to provide. In the long run I'm intrinsically satisfied with service, with plenty of room for improvement. For those little extras we are denyed (such as avatars) I'm contented to stick with cursing Microsoft's name and laud that day I decided to boycott all their products.

Modifié par Comsky159, 12 février 2012 - 01:25 .

[Zu Long]

tangalin wrote...

Zu Long wrote...

DragonRageGT wrote...

Zu Long wrote...

I can understand people wanting keyboard shortcuts and that on actual ports- games that didn't start on PC platform at all. Hell, I can understand wanting them on games that do start on the same platform. But in this case your asking for changes that make absolutely no difference to the quality of the gameplay. They are cosmetic niceties. And it's fine if you want them. I'm not saying people shouldn't. I'm saying there are people in this topic who act like it was a crime or a huge slight that Bioware didn't include them. it's really not a big deal, an afterthought at most, compared to the experience of the game itself.

Let me guess, you have never played ME2 on Insanity, have you? And with no pausing as well? And as I said, imagine what the developers would say if the programs they use on their PC to write games did not have full keyboard/mouse functionality.

Perhaps Tangolin could answer that.

Uh...I've done one run on insanity, for the achievement and for the lulz. In general, I don't mess around with high difficulties though. I play games mostly for the stories these days. Why?

I'm pretty sure he was talking to me, since I am apparently "trolling"

I was the one being quoted. *shrug*