376 réponses à ce sujet

[Random Geth]

Battlepope190 wrote...

Bioware can deny it all they want, but PS3 owners ARE getting shafted. I mean c'mon, there isn't even a PSN equivalent for the Xbox Avatar junk in the Collector's Edition.

They could at least toss in some themes and PSN avatars, but nope.

Themes and avatars, really?  THESE are deal-breakers?  I don't see why anyone cares about these kinds of things, but maybe I'm in the minority, I don't know.

I'm a PS3 player, and I don't really care.  I don't feel "shafted" or anything like that.  I think the CE is worth what I paid, and as far as the demo goes, no real complaints there either.

[Darkchipper07]

Comsky159 wrote...

I was too happy that ME2 and ME3 were being made on ps3 to care about pandering issues really. In saying that it does seem to get stamped on pretty regularly when it counts. e.g. Skyrim basically crashes after 50 hours on ps3, Valve either ignores us or makes utterly deplorable, insulting ports selling at ridiculous prices.

Yup the ps3 is pretty much just a cheap blu-ray player.

[S1L0]

Ah this debate. You know what, I could speak volumes on this subject.
I'll try to break it into chunks.

I have a PS3 and a PC. Love my PS3. Love my PC. Zero interest in 360.

BIOWARE, I LOVE Mass Effect. I really Do.
I HATE Weapon Wheels
I HATE Spell Wheels
I HATE how so many developers refuse to allow fully customizable
control configs on the console version of their games.

I LOVE / ADORE / REQUIRE HOTKEYS.

I play Mass Effect On the PC - With a DUAL SHOCK 3 - ONLY
I play in REAL-TIME. I don't like HAVING to pause and play.
That is the only way I've ever really played Mass Effect.
It's the only way I ever will.

" But ... but ... you don't have enough buttons .... "

Nonsense.
I've been developing custom control configs since 2003.
I can make a dual shock SING if i want it to.

Mouse is King. Always has been King. Likely always will be King.
The Keyboard is zero advantage. And by zero - I mean ZERO ( 0 ).
Anything done on the keyboard I can do 10x better on a DS3.
ESPECIALLY HOTKEYS.

I Can put North of 60 Hotkeys on a Dual Shock 3. 60+
Never needed anywhere near that many but could if I wanted to.

I'm not some super duper Mass Effect guru who can steamroll over the
game even on insanity setting. I can, however, get things done with a DS3.

Yes I really am Serious.

youtu.be/RbKOd0yptIA

youtu.be/-Rd4qyJN1BI

youtu.be/D2rW013gM7E

Modifié par S1L0, 12 février 2012 - 01:33 .

[tangalin]

Zu Long wrote...

tangalin wrote...

Zu Long wrote...

DragonRageGT wrote...

Zu Long wrote...

I can understand people wanting keyboard shortcuts and that on actual ports- games that didn't start on PC platform at all. Hell, I can understand wanting them on games that do start on the same platform. But in this case your asking for changes that make absolutely no difference to the quality of the gameplay. They are cosmetic niceties. And it's fine if you want them. I'm not saying people shouldn't. I'm saying there are people in this topic who act like it was a crime or a huge slight that Bioware didn't include them. it's really not a big deal, an afterthought at most, compared to the experience of the game itself.

Let me guess, you have never played ME2 on Insanity, have you? And with no pausing as well? And as I said, imagine what the developers would say if the programs they use on their PC to write games did not have full keyboard/mouse functionality.

Perhaps Tangolin could answer that.

Uh...I've done one run on insanity, for the achievement and for the lulz. In general, I don't mess around with high difficulties though. I play games mostly for the stories these days. Why?

I'm pretty sure he was talking to me, since I am apparently "trolling"

I was the one being quoted. *shrug*

I never claimed that Dragon had an over abundance of brains hehe

[I-am-Biwinning]

Well I still believe that because I'm a ps3 owner, it means bioware absolutely hates my guts so badly that they want me to bash my face in with my own console and die a slow, horrible, painful death. However, at least Jarrett provided an acceptable response to the thread. His sincerity has given me patience, so I'll wait until tuesday.

[G0ldmember]

I-am-Biwinning wrote...

Well I still believe that because I'm a ps3 owner, it means bioware absolutely hates my guts so badly that they want me to bash my face in with my own console and die a slow, horrible, painful death.

You forgot to add /sarcasm ....right? Cause I'm pretty sure they dont hate us. They just like the girl with the bigger boobs more.

[Daiyu101]

Us console peasants need love too!
Can't explain the lack of PS3 code though...

[G3rman]

I guess PS3 owners don't have enough cleavage and money.

PC users..well origin.

[DRUNK_CANADIAN]

Random Geth wrote...

Battlepope190 wrote...

Bioware can deny it all they want, but PS3 owners ARE getting shafted. I mean c'mon, there isn't even a PSN equivalent for the Xbox Avatar junk in the Collector's Edition.

They could at least toss in some themes and PSN avatars, but nope.

Themes and avatars, really?  THESE are deal-breakers?  I don't see why anyone cares about these kinds of things, but maybe I'm in the minority, I don't know.

I'm a PS3 player, and I don't really care.  I don't feel "shafted" or anything like that.  I think the CE is worth what I paid, and as far as the demo goes, no real complaints there either.

The CE in general was priced well imo.

[I-am-Biwinning]

G0ldmember wrote...

I-am-Biwinning wrote...

Well I still believe that because I'm a ps3 owner, it means bioware absolutely hates my guts so badly that they want me to bash my face in with my own console and die a slow, horrible, painful death.

You forgot to add /sarcasm ....right? Cause I'm pretty sure they dont hate us. They just like the girl with the bigger boobs more.

Haha ok I was exaggerating, but I still feel like we're an afterthought most of the time though.

[Jigglez777]

Maybe because it was originally made by Microsoft, which Microsoft did make the xbox. And also xbox was what it originally came out as, they also have more business with xbox than ps3 since maass effect 2 only came out for ps3.

[devSin]

Jarrett Lee wrote...

Aw c'mon, that's not a nice thing to say. Chris is tireless in his devotion to the community. Every time he comes to see me I know he wants me to let him dish on some uber secret information for you guys, and I have to say "no not yet!". Plus he must have the skin of an elephant. Mine is like tissue paper.

Well, you better stop hanging around here.

Otherwise, next time he comes into your office, you're going to be curled into a ball on the floor, weeping.

Zu Long wrote...

I don't understand how it's not intuitive. AWSD to move, shift to power select, esc to go to menu, right click to aim, left click to shoot, numbers for hot keys, r for reload, spacebar for everything else. That's simple, easy, and the basic control scheme pretty much every shooter has. Q and E control companions is basically the only difference. It's really simple and uncomplicated.

And do you know why they use WASD to move? Because every PC game now uses it. (There was a time way back when where they were all using the arrow keys and stuff, if you can imagine it.) Do you know why you hold down the right mouse button to aim and the left mouse button to fire? Because every PC game now does it.

So why shouldn't you expect to be able to scroll an interface element (a lengthy codex entry, or wherever else they support scrollbars) with the scroll wheel? Why when something has been selected should you be unable to hit Return to activate it (I can scroll through elements with the arrow keys, but there is no key to actually select the highlighted element)? These are behaviors that are fundamental to the platform. They work that way everywhere. And yes, it's noticeable when they don't work, especially when there's no reason at all for them not to.

Zu Long wrote...

But when developing for 3 systems simultaneously, the most practical way to do it would be to design a control scheme that works on all of them from the get-go, and that's what Bioware has done. Once you HAVE that control scheme, adding extra features to it for one platform means extra time and money for THAT platform. Given a limited amount of time and money, it's not suprising that resources are shifted to places that improve the game on all platforms.

Nobody is talking about changing any of the controls. They're saying that the routine ways to perform a specific function (of which there are usually at least two on the PC) should be equally supported. If the system calls for an element that can be scrolled, there's no (no) reason to not allow the player to either manipulate the onscreen scrollbar controls or to use the scroll wheel when that element has focus. There's no reason to force the player to click an entry in a list with the mouse instead of letting them hit Return, especially when the list already supports keyboard navigation but (inexplicably) not activation.

This is not a "feature" any more than making the mouse and keyboard work as a valid input method in the first place. Owen can tell when a keyboard event fires, and he can look to see if it was the J key and then open the Journal screen (as an example; although I'm more forgiving of the lack of journal and squad shortcuts, since it may have been a design decision to route the player through the menu screen without exception, for whatever reason). This is not any more of a burden to him than handling the event fired by your pressing of the W key which causes the game to move your character forward.

Modifié par devSin, 12 février 2012 - 01:59 .

[DragonRageGT]

tangalin wrote...

Zu Long wrote...

tangalin wrote...

Zu Long wrote...

DragonRageGT wrote...

Zu Long wrote...

I can understand people wanting keyboard shortcuts and that on actual ports- games that didn't start on PC platform at all. Hell, I can understand wanting them on games that do start on the same platform. But in this case your asking for changes that make absolutely no difference to the quality of the gameplay. They are cosmetic niceties. And it's fine if you want them. I'm not saying people shouldn't. I'm saying there are people in this topic who act like it was a crime or a huge slight that Bioware didn't include them. it's really not a big deal, an afterthought at most, compared to the experience of the game itself.

Let me guess, you have never played ME2 on Insanity, have you? And with no pausing as well? And as I said, imagine what the developers would say if the programs they use on their PC to write games did not have full keyboard/mouse functionality.

Perhaps Tangolin could answer that.

Uh...I've done one run on insanity, for the achievement and for the lulz. In general, I don't mess around with high difficulties though. I play games mostly for the stories these days. Why?

I'm pretty sure he was talking to me, since I am apparently "trolling"

I was the one being quoted. *shrug*

I never claimed that Dragon had an over abundance of brains hehe

I have no over abundance of brains but you're the one who can't read. Or you would had answered what I asked: imagine what the developers would say if the programs they use on their PC to write games did not have full keyboard/mouse functionality.

You claim to be a developer, right?

And I never said anything about you trolling... just that you don't know that much about games. And whoever said about PC games ported to consoles should give TW2 a try. One of the best games ever and it is not just a port.

Modifié par DragonRageGT, 12 février 2012 - 01:54 .

[Jigglez777]

IsaacShep wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

Er, you do realize that ME was originally a Xbox360 exclusive right?

And?

and the point he is making is that of course microsoft is going to care about the mass effect franchise than any other competetor, whether it means forking out more money or giving free codes.  

[tangalin]

DragonRageGT wrote...

tangalin wrote...

Zu Long wrote...

tangalin wrote...

Zu Long wrote...

DragonRageGT wrote...

Zu Long wrote...

I can understand people wanting keyboard shortcuts and that on actual ports- games that didn't start on PC platform at all. Hell, I can understand wanting them on games that do start on the same platform. But in this case your asking for changes that make absolutely no difference to the quality of the gameplay. They are cosmetic niceties. And it's fine if you want them. I'm not saying people shouldn't. I'm saying there are people in this topic who act like it was a crime or a huge slight that Bioware didn't include them. it's really not a big deal, an afterthought at most, compared to the experience of the game itself.

Let me guess, you have never played ME2 on Insanity, have you? And with no pausing as well? And as I said, imagine what the developers would say if the programs they use on their PC to write games did not have full keyboard/mouse functionality.

Perhaps Tangolin could answer that.

Uh...I've done one run on insanity, for the achievement and for the lulz. In general, I don't mess around with high difficulties though. I play games mostly for the stories these days. Why?

I'm pretty sure he was talking to me, since I am apparently "trolling"

I was the one being quoted. *shrug*

I never claimed that Dragon had an over abundance of brains hehe

I have no over abundance of brains but you're the one who can't read. Or you would had answered what I asked: imagine what the developers would say if the programs they use on their PC to write games did not have full keyboard/mouse functionality.

You claim to be a developer, right?

And I never said anything about you trolling... just that you don't know that much about games. And whoever said about PC games ported to consoles should give TW2 a try. One of the best games ever and it is not just a port.

Given that I usually develop using a command line text editor and compiler... what mouse functionality lol. Even when I use a graphical development environment, I find the key combinations get in the way more often than not.

Modifié par tangalin, 12 février 2012 - 01:59 .

[DragonRageGT]

tangalin wrote...

Given that I usually develop using a command line text editor and compiler... what mouse functionality lol.

The one that let you double click on the icon in your desktop and start the program?

PS: Or if you're not felling like using keyboard shortcuts to save, let you use the mouse left click to select file/save/save as/ double click on a file name and overwrite it?

Modifié par DragonRageGT, 12 février 2012 - 02:00 .

[tangalin]

DragonRageGT wrote...

tangalin wrote...

Given that I usually develop using a command line text editor and compiler... what mouse functionality lol.

The one that let you double click on the icon in your desktop and start the program?

Start from command line


Edit: Oh, and before you say to open the command line.... boot to command line

Modifié par tangalin, 12 février 2012 - 02:00 .

[DragonRageGT]

tangalin wrote...

DragonRageGT wrote...

tangalin wrote...

Given that I usually develop using a command line text editor and compiler... what mouse functionality lol.

The one that let you double click on the icon in your desktop and start the program?

Start from command line


Edit: Oh, and before you say to open the command line.... boot to command line

But as expected, you only focused on half the question, the half that interested you to answer, so, goodnite, it's 12am here and I have better things to do.

[papapudding]

Mass Effect 1 was originally published by Microsoft Studios, perhaps all that hand in hand with Microsoft is part of the deal EA had to make to acquire the franchise.

[tangalin]

DragonRageGT wrote...

tangalin wrote...

DragonRageGT wrote...

tangalin wrote...

Given that I usually develop using a command line text editor and compiler... what mouse functionality lol.

The one that let you double click on the icon in your desktop and start the program?

Start from command line


Edit: Oh, and before you say to open the command line.... boot to command line

But as expected, you only focused on half the question, the half that interested you to answer, so, goodnite, it's 12am here and I have better things to do.

Incorrect, although I can understand how you would be confused since you don't know much about the command line. I answered the mouse functionality, as far as keyboard functionality (unless I used some specialized command line text editor, which I dont) it deals with raw keyboard input, thus no hotkeys either. 

[DiegoRaphael]

Well the topic has long gone from "i want the demo sooner". I don't mind getting it a few days later (but i would be ****** if the same happen to game release).
The main discussion here - on the PC side - is the lack of customization possibilities on the graphics, and the biggest one being how much worse the game controls got on ME2 compared to ME1 and the knowledge that they will maintain it for ME3.

And that is bull****. Is not an "effort" is simply doing theirs job. Is not like they needed to hire a person to do this over months.

Just pick up the one used on ME1 and adapt it.

I mean c'mon, they already did the buttons mapping for walking, shooting and etc, just need to finish the 1/3 left. 

Make the Enter work, make 2clicks work, make the Scroll Wheel work when i want to read something, J be assigned to open the Jornal, O for Options, a button for Squad and another for the Codex. On vehicles, make the boost be on Shift instead of Space, the jump be on Space instead of E (these two can be change manualy, but still, they are mapped wrongly)

So... 7 key assignments and 2 changes. I guess this take a lot of time and money uh? 

[MissMaster]

MadLaughter wrote...

I'm sure Chris works hard,that's great. I just feel that it's possible to find someone who works hard AND doesn't post things like "Sometimes I question the intelligence of this community...."

Yeah that is rude.


I play on X-box 360 and I still thank it's pretty shi**y of them to give out early codes for one platform and not the others. X-box players are just as valuble to them as PC and PS3 players. I Mass Effect just as much as the next fan but when a company gets crappy with the fans then it becaomes a problem. SMH

Modifié par MissMaster, 12 février 2012 - 02:22 .

[Zu Long]

devSin wrote...

And do you know why they use WASD to move? Because every PC game now uses it. (There was a time way back when where they were all using the arrow keys and stuff, if you can imagine it.) Do you know why you hold down the right mouse button to aim and the left mouse button to fire? Because every PC game now does it.

So why shouldn't you expect to be able to scroll an interface element (a lengthy codex entry, or wherever else they support scrollbars) with the scroll wheel? Why when something has been selected should you be unable to hit Return to activate it (I can scroll through elements with the arrow keys, but there is no key to actually select the highlighted element)? These are behaviors that are fundamental to the platform. They work that way everywhere. And yes, it's noticeable when they don't work, especially when there's no reason at all for them not to.

But they don't add anything to the game functionality. Its hardly game breaking to have to use your mouse to select and scroll. It barely takes any more time. Now would it be nice to have? Sure. And people can ask Bioware for it if they want. But claiming you're being ignored or that the lack of that funtionality somehow means your game is gimped compared to the XBox is just silly. which was my original point.

Nobody is talking about changing any of the controls. They're saying that the routine ways to perform a specific function (of which there are usually at least two on the PC) should be equally supported. If the system calls for an element that can be scrolled, there's no (no) reason to not allow the player to either manipulate the onscreen scrollbar controls or to use the scroll wheel when that element has focus. There's no reason to force the player to click an entry in a list with the mouse instead of letting them hit Return, especially when the list already supports keyboard navigation but (inexplicably) not activation.

This is not a "feature" any more than making the mouse and keyboard work as a valid input method in the first place. Owen can tell when a keyboard event fires, and he can look to see if it was the J key and then open the Journal screen (as an example; although I'm more forgiving of the lack of journal and squad shortcuts, since it may have been a design decision to route the player throught the menu screen without exception, for whatever reason). This is not any more of a burden to him than handling the event fired by your pressing of the W key which causes the game to move your character forward.

As above: this is at worst, a minor issue though. It takes maybe an extra .5 seconds to use the mouse to do this stuff. It is in no way justification for saying your being ignored, or that Mass Effect 2 is a horrible XBox port, as some have claimed. Is it worth asking them about? Sure. Is it worth obsessing or taking extreme umbrage over? Not hardly.

Modifié par Zu Long, 12 février 2012 - 02:22 .

[tangalin]

DiegoRaphael wrote...

Well the topic has long gone from "i want the demo sooner". I don't mind getting it a few days later (but i would be ****** if the same happen to game release).
The main discussion here - on the PC side - is the lack of customization possibilities on the graphics, and the biggest one being how much worse the game controls got on ME2 compared to ME1 and the knowledge that they will maintain it for ME3.

And that is bull****. Is not an "effort" is simply doing theirs job. Is not like they needed to hire a person to do this over months.

Just pick up the one used on ME1 and adapt it.

I mean c'mon, they already did the buttons mapping for walking, shooting and etc, just need to finish the 1/3 left. 

Make the Enter work, make 2clicks work, make the Scroll Wheel work when i want to read something, J be assigned to open the Jornal, O for Options, a button for Squad and another for the Codex. On vehicles, make the boost be on Shift instead of Space, the jump be on Space instead of E (these two can be change manualy, but still, they are mapped wrongly)

So... 7 key assignments and 2 changes. I guess this take a lot of time and money uh? 

If it was just a matter of changing those things, it would take some time, and dev time isn't cheap. However, you also need to have people writing new unit tests for it, then writing to satisfy the tests to make sure nothing breaks, then more time for playtesting to make even more sure it works. Even after that, something would inevitably slip through and people would flip because they "clearly didn't do any testing". So yeah, it takes alot of time and money.