339 réponses à ce sujet

[Bendok]

The attitude amongst some people here is disappointing. You are posting on a forum about this video game specifically and you are telling someone who has concerns like this to get a life? The only reason OP posted this is cause obviously he cares about the game and the universe a lot, obviously more than you if this stuff doesn't matter to you. There's nothing wrong with holding Bioware to a high standard.. just like we did for the Deception novel. When the reports of that first came out people had the *exact* same attitude, until it got popular then all of a sudden they were concerned too. Then Bioware apologized and said they'd fix it, so they are listening.

It would be better if you just didn't post at all instead of throwing cheap and hypocritical insults. Unless you have something to contribute to the discussion at hand you should kindly press the back button.

[littlezack]

Baryonic_Member wrote...

N7Raider wrote...

umm this is literally so sad it's funny or maybe it's pathetic I don't know. I feel like laughing but at the same time I find it kinda sad that some one is actually "disappointed" about this.

This is a pretty huge flaw. I'm sorry that it doesn't bother you that BioWare throws away the established lore of the universe you've loved and invested years into.

If you aren't here for the story/universe, why? For the gameplay? If so that is "literally sad."

Personally, if I didn't enjoy Mass Effect's gameplay, I wouldn't play the game. I like the story and the universe, but you don't need to play  the game to experience either of those things. I really wish we could get away from this notion that it's 'sad' to actually enjoy a game for the gameplay. Hell, I remember a time when that was all people enjoyed games for.

[Arkitekt]

Tezlaa wrote...

alex90c wrote...

Baryonic_Member wrote...

Anyone else bothered how unserious BioWare seem to be about consistency? 

No.

Get over it.

Bit of an ignorant and stupid comment. 

Bit of too much whiny ****ing.

GET OVER IT.

[Arrow70]

MouseNo4 wrote...

Baryonic_Member wrote...

While running about the catwalks in Vancouver, Kaidan/Ashley call in on the radio that they're "trying to take down the Dreadnought". We then see a Reaper destroying a ship that's hovering in mid air with a few shots. Now there's a number of problems with this.

>The Codex clearly states that Dreadnoughts are kilometre long vessels which cannot enter atmosphere even on low gravity worlds. Even Carriers cannot enter atmosphere on a planet with 1 G.

>The Codex states that the main gun of Sovereign would be able to destroy any Alliance ship with a single shot.

Anyone else bothered how unserious BioWare seem to be about consistency? 

You are assuming:

a) The Dreadnought was the one being destroyed in the demo. 

The reaper's like Sovereign only have one weapon type with only one potency level. 

[Knight of Bronze]

The Reaper that was attacking the alliance ship was not a capital ship like Sovereign. ( Who was the Reaper equivalent of an Alliance dreadnought.) It appears to be one of the smaller Reaper destroyers.

You are right on the Alliance side of things.

[DiegoRaphael]

Bendok wrote...

The attitude amongst some people here is disappointing. You are posting on a forum about this video game specifically and you are telling someone who has concerns like this to get a life? The only reason OP posted this is cause obviously he cares about the game and the universe a lot, obviously more than you if this stuff doesn't matter to you. There's nothing wrong with holding Bioware to a high standard.. just like we did for the Deception novel. When the reports of that first came out people had the *exact* same attitude, until it got popular then all of a sudden they were concerned too. Then Bioware apologized and said they'd fix it, so they are listening.

It would be better if you just didn't post at all instead of throwing cheap and hypocritical insults. Unless you have something to contribute to the discussion at hand you should kindly press the back button.

Agreed!

[Arkitekt]

Bendok wrote...

The attitude amongst some people here is disappointing. You are posting on a forum about this video game specifically and you are telling someone who has concerns like this to get a life? The only reason OP posted this is cause obviously he cares about the game and the universe a lot, obviously more than you if this stuff doesn't matter to you. There's nothing wrong with holding Bioware to a high standard.. just like we did for the Deception novel. When the reports of that first came out people had the *exact* same attitude, until it got popular then all of a sudden they were concerned too. Then Bioware apologized and said they'd fix it, so they are listening.

It would be better if you just didn't post at all instead of throwing cheap and hypocritical insults. Unless you have something to contribute to the discussion at hand you should kindly press the back button.

You don't get it. It's a matter of proportion. All games will have plot holes and inconsistencies like this, specially if they are this big. Just lay down and enjoy the show.

I mean, if I were to count all the inconsistencies in, say, Star Trek (2009), I couldn't possibly enjoy it. At all.

[Candidate 88766]

Baryonic_Member wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

I thought it was that dreadnaughts cannot LAND on worlds. There's no reason why a large ship couldn't enter the atmosphere - the Reapers do.

Yeah, a Dreadnought is able to hover a few centimetres above the ground, but their ME cores prevent them from going that extra [centimetre].

Why would it even hover in atmosphere in the first place? Doesn't the Codex state something along the lines that a Dreadnought can't even fire in atmosphere, or am I just throwing pieces of my arse? Probably the arse. But surerly it would be more effective in space where it actually could manevourer.

This is the full codex entry:

Dreadnoughts are kilometer-long capital ships mounting heavy, long-range firepower. They are only deployed for the most vital missions. A dreadnought's power lies in the length of its main gun. Dreadnoughts range from 800 meters to one kilometer long, with a main gun of commensurate length. An 800-meter mass accelerator is capable of accelerating one twenty-kilogram slug to a velocity of 4025 km/s (1.3% the speed of light) every two seconds. Each slug has the kinetic energy of about 38 kilotons of TNT, about two and a half times the energy released by the fission weapon that destroyed Hiroshima.The Treaty of Farixen stipulates the amount of dreadnoughts a navy may own, with the turian peacekeeping fleet being allowed the most. As of 2183, the turians had 37 dreadnoughts, the asari had 21, the salarians had 16, and the Alliance had 6 with another under construction. During the year 2185, the dreadnought count is 39 turians, 20 asari, 16 salarians, and 8 humans. Alliance dreadnoughts are named after mountains of Earth (Everest, Kilimanjaro).Dreadnoughts are so large that it is impossible to safely land them on a planet, and must discharge their drive cores into the magnetic field of a planet while in orbit. The decks of large vessels are arranged perpendicular to the ship's axis of thrust, so that the "top" decks are towards the front of the ship and the "bottom" decks are towards the rear of the ship.

There is no mention of them not being able to enter the atmopshere.

The bit you later refer to is from the ME2 codex entry:

Because of air friction, planets with atmospheres do not feel a slug's full devastation. Atmospheric drag reduces impact force by 20% per Earth atmosphere of air. 

And for the sake of completeness, here is the entry on Sovereign:

Sovereign is the flagship of the rogue Spectre Saren. An enormous dreadnought larger than any other ship in any known fleet, Sovereign is crewed with both geth and krogan. At two kilometers long, its spinal-mounted main gun is likely capable of penetrating another dreadnought'skinetic barriers with a single shot.How Saren acquired this incredible warship is unknown. The prevailing opinion is that Sovereign is a geth construct, while others believe it is a Prothean relic. Its design, however, hints at a more alien and mysterious origin.The attack on Eden Prime demonstrated Sovereign's ability to generate mass effect fields powerful enough to land on a planetary surface. This implies it has a massive element zero core, and the ability to generate staggering amounts of power.

Note that only the gun on a Reaper's spine - which we've yet to see in action - can one-shot a dreadnought. The tentacle-mounted Thanix cannon things are weaker. They could one-shot the ships in ME1 as they weren't dreadnoughts.

So I'm afraid thats both of your original arguments disproven - there is no breach of lore.

/thread

Modifié par Candidate 88766, 11 février 2012 - 11:10 .

[devSin]

Honestly, the lore fail doesn't bother me, but would a dreadnaught even be worth anything inside an atmosphere? Wouldn't it be about as useful as a beached whale?

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Because of air friction, planets with atmospheres do not feel a slug's full devastation. Atmospheric drag reduces impact force by 20% per Earth atmosphere of air.

Note that this explanation is about firing into an atmosphere, not about firing from within an atmosphere.

I don't know the exact impact it would have on the result, but it must have some.

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Note that only the gun on a Reaper's spine - which we've yet to see in action - can one-shot a dreadnought. The tentacle-mounted Thanix cannon things are weaker. They could one-shot the ships in ME1 as they weren't dreadnoughts.

Keep in mind that the codex was largely speculative (based on its size, not any knowledge of its capability).

Sovereign is shown able to fire his mass accelerator beam thingy from each of his tentacles, so there is possibly no accelerator cannon at all (it was just written from the perspective of only knowing about conventional ship technology).

Modifié par devSin, 11 février 2012 - 11:20 .

[littlezack]

Bendok wrote...

The attitude amongst some people here is disappointing. You are posting on a forum about this video game specifically and you are telling someone who has concerns like this to get a life? The only reason OP posted this is cause obviously he cares about the game and the universe a lot, obviously more than you if this stuff doesn't matter to you. There's nothing wrong with holding Bioware to a high standard.. just like we did for the Deception novel. When the reports of that first came out people had the *exact* same attitude, until it got popular then all of a sudden they were concerned too. Then Bioware apologized and said they'd fix it, so they are listening.

It would be better if you just didn't post at all instead of throwing cheap and hypocritical insults. Unless you have something to contribute to the discussion at hand you should kindly press the back button.

And just because you don't nitpick doesn't mean you don't care about the story. Really, the classes of the ships could not matter less to me. That's nice lore stuff, but the story, for me, is about Shepard, the galaxy as a whole, the Reapers, et cetera. Stuff like that is just filling - it's nice when it's spot on, but I didn't buy Mass Effect 1 for the tome and lore. If you did, fine, but don't act like there's something wrong with people who don't care too much about minutae.

[Wulfram]

If Dreadnoughts were employed correctly, they'd make for boring looking space battles.

Really, it would have been better if Bioware had never written all the codexes on space combat. They ignore them for the cinematics pretty much consistently.

[AndyXTheXGamer360]

*facepalm*

[eoinnx02]

Baryonic_Member wrote...

While running about the catwalks in Vancouver, Kaidan/Ashley call in on the radio that they're "trying to take down the Dreadnought". We then see a Reaper destroying a ship that's hovering in mid air with a few shots. Now there's a number of problems with this.

>The Codex clearly states that Dreadnoughts are kilometre long vessels which cannot enter atmosphere even on low gravity worlds. Even Carriers cannot enter atmosphere on a planet with 1 G.

>The Codex states that the main gun of Sovereign would be able to destroy any Alliance ship with a single shot.

Anyone else bothered how unserious BioWare seem to be about consistency? 

Go out and smell fresh air.

[Killjoy Cutter]

If it took a Reaper multiple shots to take out a dreadnaught-sized vessel, GOOD.

The Reapers being presented as unstoppable space gods is moronic.

[Candidate 88766]

[quote]devSin wrote...

[quote]Candidate 88766 wrote...

Because of air friction, planets with atmospheres do not feel a slug's full devastation. Atmospheric drag reduces impact force by 20% per Earth atmosphere of air.[/quote]Note that this explanation is about firing into an atmosphere, not about firing from within an atmosphere.

I don't know the exact impact it would have on the result, but it must have some.[/quote]There would still be drag, explaining why both the Reapers' weapons and the dreadnought's would be slightly weakened.

[quote]Candidate 88766 wrote...

Note that only the gun on a Reaper's spine - which we've yet to see in action - can one-shot a dreadnought. The tentacle-mounted Thanix cannon things are weaker. They could one-shot the ships in ME1 as they weren't dreadnoughts.[/quote]Keep in mind that the codex was largely speculative (based on its size, not any knowledge of its capability).

Sovereign is shown able to fire his mass accelerator beam thingy from each of his tentacles, so there is possibly no accelerator cannon at all.
[/quote]A gun along a Reapers' spine would be stronger than anything in its tentacles as an acclerator cannon increases in strength the longer it is. While some of the codex stuff is speculation, its safe to assume that the tentacle beam things (firing a stream of metal IIRC) are not as powerful as its main gun.

[Zjarcal]

Baryonic_Member wrote...

Anyone else bothered how unserious BioWare seem to be about consistency? 

Yes, I'm so bothered I'll cancel my pre-order and stage a protest a BW headquarters.

[Arkitekt]

Candidate, thanks for having the patience to put this idiocy to rest.

[Armass81]

A wizard did it.

Or do you want a MGS4 like explanation for everything magical seeming?

it was nanomachines.

Modifié par Armass81, 11 février 2012 - 11:25 .

[CARL_DF90]

With mulitiple writers on the project it seems only natural little mistakes like that are going to happen. It sucks I know.

[Candidate 88766]

Arkitekt wrote...

Candidate, thanks for having the patience to put this idiocy to rest.

Took all of about 6 minutes. This entire thread could've been spared if the OP had just had a quick glance at the wiki. It takes all of a few seconds to search for it, so there's no excuse.

[VolusvsReaper]

He will really hate lore when he sees what the Mako was replaced with

[Arkitekt]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

Candidate, thanks for having the patience to put this idiocy to rest.

Took all of about 6 minutes. This entire thread could've been spared if the OP had just had a quick glance at the wiki. It takes all of a few seconds to search for it, so there's no excuse.

The problem isn't even the fact that he thought the lore of ME3 was wrong and decided to communicate it to the community.

The problem is the usual arrogance to proclaim it to be wrong, and how disappointing it is, how Bioware should be more professional about it, and how people should be upset about this irrelevant detail, that apparently the bozo couldn't even get straight.

When I see such combination of arrogance coupled with sheer incompetence I lose my temper.

[Jynthor]

As it happens I do not find my enjoyment of the game to be hindered by the fact of this lore inconsistency. Therefore all your statements are a lie and you are considered inferior to me. Either convert your opinion to be like mine or refrain from posting.
Thank you.

[littlezack]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

Candidate, thanks for having the patience to put this idiocy to rest.

Took all of about 6 minutes. This entire thread could've been spared if the OP had just had a quick glance at the wiki. It takes all of a few seconds to search for it, so there's no excuse.

It's almost like he...DIDN'T CARE ABOUT THE LORE @_@