339 réponses à ce sujet

[Candidate 88766]

Baryonic_Member wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Baryonic_Member wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Baryonic_Member wrote...

And BTW, why doesn't the Reapers invade the Citadel?

The people inside could just close the arms and they'd be safe. The Reapers can't risk destroying or even damaging the Citadel because it is integral to their plans, as it controls the Relays, is central to the Cycle, and has other more important roles that will be revealed in ME3.

**** YOU.

Sincerely.

Thanks for the spoilers.

**** you.

And the Reapers comissioned the Citadel, surerly they could find a way to open it. The only reason Sovereign didn't attack head on was because of the Citadel fleet, not because they would close the arms. Reapers are amazingly fast, able to make turns that would tear any alliance ship in half. With the Relay they can control the relay network and isolate. They're going to have to attack the Citadel sooner or later, why not sooner?

If you consider that a spoiler then you really shouldn't be on these forums any more. That was the vaguest I could possibly have been. It didn't tell you what the role is, whether its something important to the story or just from a codex entry or something. All I've said is that there is more to the Citadel then we know. Which is something we've guessed since ME1.

Sorry, I was overreacting. Perhaps something to do with the 12 Prothean scientists, whose fates are unknown.

My fault for posting it - I keep forgetting what is and isn't common knowledge - but its nothing like that. If it was anything to do with the Prothean scientists or something I wouldn't have mentioned it.

However, with the artbook having been leaked and release drawing closer, if you are really keen to avoid spoilers its worth taking 3 to 4 weeks off BSN. There will inevitably be troll threads posting spoilers in the titles as release draws nearer. If you're made it this far then its not worth the risk for you imo.

And a Reapers' speed has no advantage when faced with a sealed Citadel. The Reapers designed it to last, so that it couldn't be destroyed accidentally by organic life (known from ME1 I believe). They don't want to risk destroying it, as without the Relay network may not work (don't know for sure, but seeing as we know from ME1 it controls the network the Citadel's destruction could heavily impact the network's functionality). So instead of wasting energy trying to get in, they may as well just attack everyone's homeworld instead. instead of cutting off the head of the snake, they're just going to ensure there is nothing left for the head to rule. They don't need the Citadel to win - it just helps out normally as they have the element of surprise.

But they still have to take the Citadel sooner of later. Why rush blindly to Earth (and neighbouring systems) when they could subtly take over a single isolated colony, turn the colonists into sleeper agents, infilrtate the Citadel and take control of the Relay Network? Vigil said "[Reapers] are patient and will not rush into the unknown". It's disappointing when the villains get dumbed down. I liked it when they were unknowable Lovecraftian horrors, and not emotional with the need to taunt Shepard at every opportunity (Harbinger).

They know the galaxy is expecting them to go for the Citadel. In the past they have always seized the Citadel and then, system by system, started eradicating planets. So from their point of view its better to try something different; something unexpected. So they basically just invade multiple systems at once.

Their plan hinges on galactic life remaining separate and divided, hence why they normall shut down the rekay network. If they attack the Citadel early on they risk an entire galaxy uniting against them as the Citadel is a common interest to pretty much every species. By attacking some homeworlds, they ensure that the galaxy remains divided - few species will come to the aid of others if their own world isn't threatened for fear of bringing the wrath of the Reapers upon themselves.

Modifié par Candidate 88766, 12 février 2012 - 12:30 .

[Adragalus]

Inutaisho7996 wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Describe for me, exactly, what happened. Because I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying he/she is trying to land an Alliance/Allies Dreadnaught onto a planet (which has been proven to be possible; Sovereign did it) or is he/she trying to bring down/destroy a dreadnaught, ie a Reaper, ie something that has already been proven to be able to land on a planet?

I'm not seeing any discontinuity here yet, but that doesn't mean there isn't any. I just want to understand what you meant

It's not possible. Dreadnaughts don't have an eezo core large enough to reduce their mass so that they can escape a planet's gravity; Sovereign did.


Anyway,the ship we see get destroyed never gets called a dreadnaught. Ashley tells Joker to watch out for
the dreadnaught by them that the reapers are about to destroy, but the Normandy is no
where near the ship Anderson and Shepard see get blown up. It's
probably just a cruiser that got destroyed around the same time.

Whoah, nice thought! I never though about that.

At that point the Normandy is at least three minutes or so out, even longer depending on how long you hold out at the end. 

[Jorina Leto]

Baryonic_Member wrote...

While running about the catwalks in Vancouver, Kaidan/Ashley call in on the radio that they're "trying to take down the Dreadnought". We then see a Reaper destroying a ship that's hovering in mid air with a few shots. Now there's a number of problems with this.

>The Codex clearly states that Dreadnoughts are kilometre long vessels which cannot enter atmosphere even on low gravity worlds. Even Carriers cannot enter atmosphere on a planet with 1 G.

>The Codex states that the main gun of Sovereign would be able to destroy any Alliance ship with a single shot.

Anyone else bothered how unserious BioWare seem to be about consistency? 

Every kind of sense and consistency was thrown out by ME2. Just think of the magical breather masks and thermal clips.

[GnusmasTHX]

Baryonic_Member wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Baryonic_Member wrote...

And BTW, why doesn't the Reapers invade the Citadel?

The people inside could just close the arms and they'd be safe. The Reapers can't risk destroying or even damaging the Citadel because it is integral to their plans, as it controls the Relays, is central to the Cycle, and has other more important roles that will be revealed in ME3.

**** YOU.

Sincerely.

Thanks for the spoilers.

**** you.

And the Reapers comissioned the Citadel, surerly they could find a way to open it. The only reason Sovereign didn't attack head on was because of the Citadel fleet, not because they would close the arms. Reapers are amazingly fast, able to make turns that would tear any alliance ship in half. With the Relay they can control the relay network and isolate. They're going to have to attack the Citadel sooner or later, why not sooner?

Really, that  giant habitable MacGuffin didn't send off your spoiler senses since ME1?

Spoilers, in ME3, Shepard fights the Reapers.

Modifié par GnusmasTHX, 12 février 2012 - 12:36 .

[MostlyAutumn]

Baryonic_Member wrote...

Cushers Baby x wrote...
 you've even played the first game you'll know that reapers, no matter the size, have a large enough mass effect core to be able to land and take off of planets.

I'm sorry, but that was exactly my point. Dreadnoughts cannot land on planets because they don't have the enormous eezo cores that Reaper have.

Reaper dreadnaughts can. Did you even read the post?

Modifié par MostlyAutumn, 12 février 2012 - 12:39 .

[General User]

Perhaps more developed worlds (like Earth) have planet-side "docking facilities" that allow large ships to enter and leave atmosphere?

It's possible...

[Someone With Mass]

Arcian wrote...
You should read the codex a little closer. Dreadnoughts can enter the atmosphere of a planet, but they cannot land.

Even at that, it doesn't say why dreadnoughts can't land.

It could might as well be because the size of the ship is too inconvenient to place anywhere on the ground.

They are built in space, after all.

[fredward55]

WHAT THIS IS AN OUTRAGED canceling per order

[Wulfram]

General User wrote...

Perhaps more developed worlds (like Earth) have planet-side "docking facilities" that allow large ships to enter and leave atmosphere?

It's possible...

How would you do that, and why?  And why would that result in one of the things loitering in the atmosphere in the middle of a battle?

[devSin]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Even at that, it doesn't say why dreadnoughts can't land.

It could might as well be because the size of the ship is too inconvenient to place anywhere on the ground.

They are built in space, after all.

I think because they got the economy engines...

It would take too much energy to lighten a ship enough to just float it off the ground, and it takes too much energy to lift anything heavier than that into orbit.

I think it's touched on briefly in one of the codex entries from one of the games. Basically, we're limited by the amount of energy we're able to generate, even if the technology exists to make objects virtually weightless.

Modifié par devSin, 12 février 2012 - 12:45 .

[Baryonic_Member]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

But they still have to take the Citadel sooner of later. Why rush blindly to Earth (and neighbouring systems) when they could subtly take over a single isolated colony, turn the colonists into sleeper agents, infilrtate the Citadel and take control of the Relay Network? Vigil said "[Reapers] are patient and will not rush into the unknown". It's disappointing when the villains get dumbed down. I liked it when they were unknowable Lovecraftian horrors, and not emotional with the need to taunt Shepard at every opportunity (Harbinger).

They know the galaxy is expecting them to go for the Citadel. In the past they have always seized the Citadel and then, system by system, started eradicating planets. So from their point of view its better to try something different; something unexpected. So they basically just invade multiple systems at once.

Their plan hinges on galactic life remaining separate and divided, hence why they normall shut down the rekay network. If they attack the Citadel early on they risk an entire galaxy uniting against them as the Citadel is a common interest to pretty much every species. By attacking some homeworlds, they ensure that the galaxy remains divided - few species will come to the aid of others if their own world isn't threatened for fear of bringing the wrath of the Reapers upon themselves.

I guess that kind of makes sense. But I still think it would be better to infiltrate the Citadel with agents and take control of the network. If I were the Reapers, I would even prefer a frontal assault of the Citadel to attacking individual homeworlds.  At the end of ME2, I didn't see any indication that the Council started taking the Reaper threat seriously. Even the Alliance condemned Shepard's actions in the Arrival, so I don't think they helped convince them.

Also, on a related notice, how come Sovereign didn't employ the Collectors to assault the Citadel? Since the collectors were already in place (and evidently more advanced/potent than the Geth), recruiting the Geth seems to be unneccesairly complicated.

MostlyAutumn wrote...

Baryonic_Member wrote...

Cushers Baby x wrote...
 you've
even played the first game you'll know that reapers, no matter the
size, have a large enough mass effect core to be able to land and take
off of planets.

I'm sorry, but that was exactly my
point. Dreadnoughts cannot land on planets because they don't have the
enormous eezo cores that Reaper have.

Reaper dreadnaughts can. Did you even read the post?

?
Reapers can land on planets, yes. Alliance Dreadnoughts cannot land (and logically, not enter atmosphere and hover a few hundred metres of ground). 

Adragalus wrote...

Inutaisho7996 wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Describe
for me, exactly, what happened. Because I'm not sure I understand. Are
you saying he/she is trying to land an Alliance/Allies Dreadnaught onto a
planet (which has been proven to be possible; Sovereign did it)
or is he/she trying to bring down/destroy a dreadnaught, ie a Reaper,
ie something that has already been proven to be able to land on a
planet?

I'm not seeing any discontinuity here yet, but that doesn't mean there isn't any. I just want to understand what you meant

It's
not possible. Dreadnaughts don't have an eezo core large enough to
reduce their mass so that they can escape a planet's gravity; Sovereign
did.


Anyway,the ship we see get destroyed never gets called a dreadnaught. Ashley tells Joker to watch out for
the dreadnaught by them that the reapers are about to destroy, but the Normandy is no
where near the ship Anderson and Shepard see get blown up. It's
probably just a cruiser that got destroyed around the same time.

Whoah, nice thought! I never though about that.

At that point the Normandy is at least three minutes or so out, even longer depending on how long you hold out at the end. 

I don't remeber the transcript exactly (was a few hours since my playthrough), but why would Kaidan/Ashley call out to Shepard if the Dreadnought wasn't in our vicinity? 

Modifié par Baryonic_Member, 12 février 2012 - 12:51 .

[General User]

Wulfram wrote...

General User wrote...

Perhaps more developed worlds (like Earth) have planet-side "docking facilities" that allow large ships to enter and leave atmosphere?

It's possible...

How would you do that, and why?  And why would that result in one of the things loitering in the atmosphere in the middle of a battle?

The how is easy, the same way they do most anything in Mass Effect, industrial mass effect fields that would lower the mass of a ship trying to enter the atmosphere and the ME equivilent of tugboats to guide it down to a gentle landing.

As for the why... umm... you see... you might need... umm... repairs?   I don't know.   I'm just trying to put a fig-leaf on this thing.

Modifié par General User, 12 février 2012 - 12:48 .

[AtreiyaN7]

1) They could have made some changes to the dreadnaught (or dreadnought) class.
2) It could be the ship's actual name as opposed to type as pointed out by some people.
3) I don't care.

[devSin]

General User wrote...

The how is easy, the same way they do most anything in Mass Effect, industrial mass effect fields that would lower the mass of a ship trying to enter the atmosphere and guide it down to a gentle landing.

As for the why... umm... you see... you might need... umm... repairs? I don't know. I'm just trying to put a fig-leaf on this thing.

Yeah, because moving a ten-thousand-ton exterior panel inside the gravity well of a planet is just so much more efficent than in open space.

You could have at least said something like "fresh air" or something. ;-)

[MostlyAutumn]

Baryonic_Member wrote...

Reapers can land on planets, yes. Alliance Dreadnoughts cannot land (and logically, not enter atmosphere and hover a few hundred metres of ground). 

Well, what that poster were trying to tell you was that Reaper dreadnaught was destroyed in the background. Alliance ship (not a dreadnaught) was destroyed too, roughly at the same time.

Modifié par MostlyAutumn, 14 février 2012 - 07:43 .

[Zaxares]

True, normal dreadnaughts can't land on planets due to the incredible amounts of eezo and energy it would take to lower it's mass sufficiently, but Sovereign (who at over 2km long is MUCH bigger than any organic race's dreadnaught) proved way back in ME1 that it could be done. Also, the main gun of a Reaper actually lies parallel along its length, and (presumably) fires from the rear of the ship. We actually never got to see Sovereign (or another Reaper so far) using its main gun; they've just been using auxiliary weapons like the Thanix cannons mounted in their 'tentacles'.

[ebevan91]

I'm trying to give a damn but I just can't seem to do it.

[Praetor Knight]

Well, here are three relevant Codex entries:

Sovereign

Sovereign is the flagship of the rogue Spectre Saren. An enormous dreadnought larger than any other ship in any known fleet, Sovereign is crewed with both geth and krogan. At two kilometers long, its spinal-mounted main gun is likely capable of penetrating another dreadnought's kinetic barriers with a single shot.

How Saren acquired this incredible warship is unknown. The prevailing opinion is that Sovereign is a geth construct, while others believe it is a Prothean relic. Its design, however, hints at a more alien and mysterious origin.

The attack on Eden Prime demonstrated Sovereign's ability to generate mass effect fields powerful enough to land on a planetary surface. This implies it has a massive element zero core, and the ability to generate staggering amounts of power.

Dreadnaught

The ultimate arbiter of space warfare, the dreadnought employs millions of tons of metal, ceramic, and polymer in the projection of firepower against an enemy vessel of like ability. No sane commander would face a dreadnought without a dreadnought of his or her own.

A dreadnought's power lies in the length of its main gun. Dreadnoughts range from 800 meters to one kilometer long, with main guns of commensurate length. An 800-meter mass-accelerator is capable of accelerating one 20 kg slug to a velocity of 4025 km/s (1.3% of light speed) every two seconds. Each slug has the kinetic energy of 38 kilotons of TNT, enough to destroy the infrastructure of a mid-sized city and kill half a million people.

Because of air friction, planets with atmospheres do not feel a slug's full devastation. Atmospheric drag reduces impact force by 20% per Earth atmosphere of air.

At present, the turian fleet possesses 39 dreadnoughts, the asari 20, and the salarians 16. Each of the human Alliance's eight dreadnoughts is named for terrestrial mountains.

Everest class: Everest, Fuji, Elbrus

Kilimanjaro class: Kilimanjaro, Tai Shan, Shasta, Aconcagua, Orizaba

Frigates

Frigates are light escort and scouting vessels. They often have extensive GARDIAN systems to provide anti-fighter screening for capital ships, and carry a squad of marines for security and groundside duty. Unlike larger vessels, frigates are able to land on planets.

The most important role filled by frigates is reconnaissance. Sensors, unlike ships and communications employing the mass effect, are limited to the speed of light, therefore a stationary observer can detect a vessel a light year away only when its light year arrives a year later.

Because faster than-light attackers always arrive before defenders can detect them with luminal sensors, attackers can always surprise defenders. For defense, fleets surround themselves with spheres of scouting frigates scanning for enemy ships and transmitting warnings to the main body.

Frigates achieve high FTL cruise speeds because of their high-performance drives. They also have proportionally larger thrusters and lighter design mass, allowing them greater maneuverability. In combat, speed and maneuverability make frigates immune to long-range fire of larger vessels.

In fleet combat, frigates are organized into "wolf pack" flotillas of four to six. Wolf packs speed through enemy formations, hunting enemy vessels whose kinetic barriers have been taken down by fighter-launched disruptor torpedoes. The wolf pack circle-strafes vulnerable targets, using their superior speed and maneuverability to evade return fire.

Alliance frigates are named for great battles in human history.

[Merchant2006]

Oh god why am I surprised by this thread. Honestly, BSN continues to impress me with their... with it's... it's...

*sighs*

[WizenSlinky0]

You really think the alliances concern with reapers landing everywhere is going to be "Oh hey, I wonder if we'll be able to get this dreadnought back into space?". No, they've already seen they are fighting a losing battle.

The dreadnought either:

A.) Purposely dropped into gravity in order to engage the reapers in hopes their reduced mobility would weaken their firepower.

B.) Was forced into earth's atmosphere by reaper attacks only to be blown up before its poor engines could no longer keep it above the earths surface.

[Mendelevosa]

[incinerator950]

Don't need to land on the planet, just maintain some low gravity to stay airborne. Chances are the captain deemed it necessary to put themselves in harms way. Regardless its to make the situation sound worse, although plot consistencies with the codex is common.

[Hunter of Legends]

Baryonic_Member wrote...

While running about the catwalks in Vancouver, Kaidan/Ashley call in on the radio that they're "trying to take down the Dreadnought". We then see a Reaper destroying a ship that's hovering in mid air with a few shots. Now there's a number of problems with this.

>The Codex clearly states that Dreadnoughts are kilometre long vessels which cannot enter atmosphere even on low gravity worlds. Even Carriers cannot enter atmosphere on a planet with 1 G.

>The Codex states that the main gun of Sovereign would be able to destroy any Alliance ship with a single shot.

Anyone else bothered how unserious BioWare seem to be about consistency? 

That ship is a cruiser not a dreadnaught.

VA fail not lore.

[Annihilator27]

Baryonic_Member wrote...

While running about the catwalks in Vancouver, Kaidan/Ashley call in on the radio that they're "trying to take down the Dreadnought". We then see a Reaper destroying a ship that's hovering in mid air with a few shots. Now there's a number of problems with this.

>The Codex clearly states that Dreadnoughts are kilometre long vessels which cannot enter atmosphere even on low gravity worlds. Even Carriers cannot enter atmosphere on a planet with 1 G.

>The Codex states that the main gun of Sovereign would be able to destroy any Alliance ship with a single shot.

Anyone else bothered how unserious BioWare seem to be about consistency? 

Simple explanation.The Dreadnought is triggered to explode when you reach a certain point on the walkway.You could run there to make it trigger sooner.