339 réponses à ce sujet

[LetMeW1n]

Lol.. This just pre-game jitters and scrutiny..? Not sure if I understand the context in which the 'error' happened, but even if it's the worse case scenario described, I think it'll be over soon. Not that bad, really, has happened before.

Still, I appreciate the effort made by more avid complainers to keep developers on their toes, as long as it's not asking for something I don't want.

Edit: Just watched through demo footage and for me I think Ashley's referring to another Dreadnought altogether. I think the Normandy's held in orbit and Ashley(or Kaidan?) is referring to a space battle..? Maybe VS took a shuttle to some space station to retrieve the Normandy, and some reapers just got past the dreadnought and headed straight for Earth first

Modifié par LetMeW1n, 12 février 2012 - 09:37 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

Given what Bioware has already done to the lore/setting in the name of "kewl" and "awesome", this is a tiny mistake.

[AtreiyaN7]

Bendok wrote...

The attitude amongst some people here is disappointing. You are posting on a forum about this video game specifically and you are telling someone who has concerns like this to get a life? The only reason OP posted this is cause obviously he cares about the game and the universe a lot, obviously more than you if this stuff doesn't matter to you. There's nothing wrong with holding Bioware to a high standard.. just like we did for the Deception novel. When the reports of that first came out people had the *exact* same attitude, until it got popular then all of a sudden they were concerned too. Then Bioware apologized and said they'd fix it, so they are listening.

It would be better if you just didn't post at all instead of throwing cheap and hypocritical insults. Unless you have something to contribute to the discussion at hand you should kindly press the back button.

The big difference is that Deception is pretty much acknowledged as a piece of crap with numerous errors (and the blame largely lies with the writer for not nailing everything). This thread is about one alleged error that is fairly meaningless on the other hand - unless you're really OCD about it.

[GamerrangerX]

Baryonic_Member wrote...

While running about the catwalks in Vancouver, Kaidan/Ashley call in on the radio that they're "trying to take down the Dreadnought". We then see a Reaper destroying a ship that's hovering in mid air with a few shots. Now there's a number of problems with this.

>The Codex clearly states that Dreadnoughts are kilometre long vessels which cannot enter atmosphere even on low gravity worlds. Even Carriers cannot enter atmosphere on a planet with 1 G.

>The Codex states that the main gun of Sovereign would be able to destroy any Alliance ship with a single shot.

Anyone else bothered how unserious BioWare seem to be about consistency? 

you know Bioware screw with the ME lore, Dreadnoughts cannot enter atmosphere even on low gravity worlds codex say it but Bioware change his mind like a girl change her TAMPAX,i starting  to want to cancel my ME3 CE

Modifié par GamerrangerX, 12 février 2012 - 04:02 .

[Hunter of Legends]

incinerator950 wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

So the dreadnought should fire from orbit instead? Where it's at an angle so the planet is in the way, not to mention the newly made debris field?

Yeah, that'll work out just fine.

Outside of orbit, the codex offers ME Space combat tactic insight.  Not only does being in a gravity well do wonderful things to MA rounds, but also can cook the ships drives faster in combat.  A dreadnought would probably be able to sit in low orbit, but then crash or have to get pulled out somehow.  In this case, it's a Cruiser made to look like a Dreadnought,or called one to add to the effect the Reaper's weapons are devastating.

It's a Cruiser.

It's just a VA/Dailogue mistake.

Oh of course, but it was probably intentionally done.  To be fair, they need to re-examine and retcon the current codex.

Why do they need to?

[_symphony]

I already argued about it in another thread just today, the model looks more like a cruicer, but BioWare can override whatever thing the codex says thanks the rule of cool.

Modifié par _symphony, 12 février 2012 - 04:00 .

[pmac_tk421]

VolusvsReaper wrote...

I play for the story but your complaint is borderline sad.

[vox504]

pmac_tk421 wrote...

VolusvsReaper wrote...

I play for the story but your complaint is borderline sad.

It is pretty clear that the ship getting destroyed in the
demo is a Dreadnought and it is in Earth’s atmosphere, something that
contradicts the lore.  Maybe the
technology has evolved is the 3 years since ME1 and this whole thread is a
waste of time, but I doubt it.  Even then
the bigger issue is the willingness of fans to gloss over this issue. In what
way is this a sad complaint?  Especially
after Deception. We could write that off as Dietz not knowing the lore or
someone at Bioware dropping the ball on a relatively trivial matter such as a tie
in novel, but this is the end of Shepard’s journey, the climax of their efforts
thus far.  They have been able to tell a
great story with equally great universe building for two games now, but all of
sudden they start dropping the ball at the finish line?  Personally I wouldn’t think much of it but
when you add in the “new player experience” garbage that they have been
spouting as well as multiplayer you start to wonder if maybe they have shifted
their attentions away from the people who loved the story line and lore of Mass
Effect 1 and have started catering to the people who could care less what the
difference is between a Salarian and a Turian.

[bennyjammin79]

Whatever dude.

[_symphony]

If is a dreadnought, then is a lore error. However, we have yet to see what an Alliance dreadnought looks like and the model suspiciously looks like the Alliance cruicers of ME1, so I think it is a cruicer and there was an error in the dialogue.

[Hunter of Legends]

_symphony wrote...

If is a dreadnought, then is a lore error. However, we have yet to see what an Alliance dreadnought looks like and the model suspiciously looks like the Alliance cruicers of ME1, so I think it is a cruicer and there was an error in the dialogue.

Just played the demo.

That's a Cruiser. Dreadnaughts are killometers...that ship that blew up is like 1/4 the size of a Reaper capital ship.

[neubourn]

As was already pointed out: the Codex states that a Dread cant safely LAND on a planet. There is absolutely zero reason why it cant ENTER an atmosphere.

Also, its highly unlikely that it was in fact, a Dread. The Human Alliance only had a handful (6 or 7 i believe) to begin with.

[_symphony]

neubourn wrote...

As was already pointed out: the Codex states that a Dread cant safely LAND on a planet. There is absolutely zero reason why it cant ENTER an atmosphere.

(just pasting what I said in the other thread)

The codex says they can't touch the planet surface for discharge their core.  If they were able to get this close to the surface, then they could just drop a cable and discharge. Since dreadnoughts can't do that (as implied by "they can't discharge"), is more logical to assume that they can't really get too near the planet's surface and that "can't land" is just a figure of speech.

Anyway, if you understand physics, you will know that resting in the surface or hovering over it is, generally speaking, the same thing, "something" has to hold the whole weight of the ship, something has to provide the upwards force that keeps the ship from falling, be either the wings, the engines, the mass effect core or the landing gear touching ground, whatever. If a ship can hover over the surface, then there's no reason for it not being able to touch it.

A ship in space can stay away from the planet's gravity well, or stay in orbit for cancel out its own weight without using mass effect fields, but if it enters the atmosphere, then it needs to use the mass effect for make itself "lighter than air" and hover like if it were a blimp, but since dreadnoughts are so massive and mass effect cores are expensive, I have to assume that they don't have that luxury. Then again, if a dreadnought could hover over the land, then there's no reason for them not being able to get down just a little more and discharge the core, which is something stated in the codex they can't do.

You can argue whatever you want, maybe BioWare forgot about physics, or doesn't care, or thinks that using rule of cool is better, it really doesn't matter, is a game. But please don't try to rationalize something like this with just semantics.

Modifié par _symphony, 12 février 2012 - 07:16 .

[Candidate 88766]

Not sure how this is still going on, but there are three relevant codex entries that apparently need to be shown again:

Here is the entry on dreadnoughts:

Dreadnoughts are kilometer-long capital ships mounting heavy, long-range firepower. They are only deployed for the most vital missions. A dreadnought's power lies in the length of its main gun. Dreadnoughts range from 800 meters to one kilometer long, with a main gun of commensurate length. An 800-meter mass accelerator is capable of accelerating one twenty-kilogram slug to a velocity of 4025 km/s (1.3% the speed of light) every two seconds. Each slug has the kinetic energy of about 38 kilotons of TNT, about two and a half times the energy released by the fission weapon that destroyed Hiroshima.The Treaty of Farixen stipulates the amount of dreadnoughts a navy may own, with the turian peacekeeping fleet being allowed the most. As of 2183, the turians had 37 dreadnoughts, the asari had 21, the salarians had 16, and the Alliance had 6 with another under construction. During the year 2185, the dreadnought count is 39 turians, 20 asari, 16 salarians, and 8 humans. Alliance dreadnoughts are named after mountains of Earth (Everest, Kilimanjaro).Dreadnoughts are so large that it is impossible to safely land them on a planet, and must discharge their drive cores into the magnetic field of a planet while in orbit. The decks of large vessels are arranged perpendicular to the ship's axis of thrust, so that the "top" decks are towards the front of the ship and the "bottom" decks are towards the rear of the ship.

This bit is from the ME2 codex entry:

Because of air friction, planets with atmospheres do not feel a slug's full devastation. Atmospheric drag reduces impact force by 20% per Earth atmosphere of air. 

Here is the entry on Sovereign:

Sovereign is the flagship of the rogue Spectre Saren. An enormous dreadnought larger than any other ship in any known fleet, Sovereign is crewed with both geth and krogan. At two kilometers long, its spinal-mounted main gun is likely capable of penetrating another dreadnought'skinetic barriers with a single shot.How Saren acquired this incredible warship is unknown. The prevailing opinion is that Sovereign is a geth construct, while others believe it is a Prothean relic. Its design, however, hints at a more alien and mysterious origin.The attack on Eden Prime demonstrated Sovereign's ability to generate mass effect fields powerful enough to land on a planetary surface. This implies it has a massive element zero core, and the ability to generate staggering amounts of power.

Dreadnoughts are unable to land on a planet, but there is nothing about them not being able to enter the atmopshere. Logically, this is because their mass effect cores are powerful enough to lower their mass enough that the engines can support it, but they cannot land because they are too massive to support their own weight. Reapers can land as they keep their ME fields on the whole time, ensuring that their legs aren't supporting as much of its own weight as they would otherwise. A dreadnought could, in theory, 'land' on a planet while keep its engines on, as long as the ME fields were active, but if a helicopter is touching the ground whilst keeping its rotor on it hasn't really landed - the ground is only supporting part of the weight. If a dreadnought did this, the ground would be badly damaged by the heat and force of the engines, but the ME fields would still support its weight. However, it can't truly land - as in engines off, all weight supported by the ground - as it wouldn't have legs strong enough to hold it. Not to mention that with the engines off the gravity of it would be all messed up - the decks are normally perpendicular to the planet's surface.

An atmopshere reduces the effectiveness of a dreadnought's weapon (and persumably any other ship's weapon) by around 20% due to drag. However, a dreadnought's main gun, according to the chap in the Citadel entrance in ME2, fires slugs which impact with the force of Hiroshima-style atomic bombs. You knock off 20, 30 or even 40% of that power and it is still going to be pretty significant. So a dreadnought being in-atmopshere is perfectly plausible. Remember, these Reapers where right next to Alliance HQ which is clearly something they'll want to defend, so its not a stretch to imagine that it came out of orbit to attack the Reaper (it can't fire from orbit because if it misses it will add to the damage).

Finally, a Reaper's main gun is likely able, according to the codex, to breach a dreadnought's shields in one hit. There is some debate as to whether the spine gun, which we have yet to see, is the same as the tentacle mounted guns (and in the demo the beam appears to come from the Reaper's core, not just its tentacles) but even so the Reapers do not have any weapon that can canononically one-hit kill a dreadnought.


To conclude:
-The VS refers to that ship as a dreadnought. You can say they are referring to another ship off-scene, but then you'd have to wonder why Bioware felt the need to tell the player about it. The ship you see is obviously meant to represent a dreadnought, despite just using a larger cruiser model. The dreadnought's presence here does not breach any lore.
-The Reapers do not actually have a gun that can explicitly one-hit kill a dreadnought according to the codex and lore, so the fact that it takes multiple shots (it takes mroe the longer it takes the player to reach a certain point, as it won;t blow up before this point) doesn't breach any lore either.

[SirEtchwart]

I think it's merely a scripted event. It doesn't blow until a certain point, and canonically, you won't be stopping to watch; you'll run straight ahead and watch get blasted in only a few shots.

[LetMeW1n]

Just watched through some demo footage, and my rationalization for that "error" is that VS took a shuttle to some space station in orbit to retrieve the Normandy(meaning that SR2 isn't held on Earth, it was kept in space) and a Dreadnought which is orbiting the Earth is the one she said was being pummeled. The Cruiser you see being destroyed is another thing altogether.

[LetMeW1n]

dp

[incinerator950]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

So the dreadnought should fire from orbit instead? Where it's at an angle so the planet is in the way, not to mention the newly made debris field?

Yeah, that'll work out just fine.

Outside of orbit, the codex offers ME Space combat tactic insight.  Not only does being in a gravity well do wonderful things to MA rounds, but also can cook the ships drives faster in combat.  A dreadnought would probably be able to sit in low orbit, but then crash or have to get pulled out somehow.  In this case, it's a Cruiser made to look like a Dreadnought,or called one to add to the effect the Reaper's weapons are devastating.

It's a Cruiser.

It's just a VA/Dailogue mistake.

Oh of course, but it was probably intentionally done.  To be fair, they need to re-examine and retcon the current codex.

Why do they need to?

Moral degeneration.  Doesn't it sound bad if you're on the ground and you here one of your strongest support or power house vehicles or ships gets taken out?  

[muse108]

I found it odd. Nothing bigger than a cruiser is suppose to be able to enter atmosphere, unless your a reaper of course. Unless of course it wasnt planning on getting back into space which may make a bit of sense.

Its just there to really drive home the point that at the moment even your strongest ships dont stand a chance.

[Chuvvy]

Fredvdp wrote...

Also, heatsinks are called ammo now.

Actually I'm pretty happy with this. At least they're calling it what it is.

[Arppis]

They can just put "they fixed the problem" in Codex and be off with it. After all science = magic in any Sci-fi you see.

[SykoWolf]

New alliance dreadnoughts use upgraded mass effect cores allowing them to enter atmosphere