37 réponses à ce sujet

[khordlambert]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

khordlambert wrote...

I'd call it more, something I saw coming a fragging mile away.

You saw that the single group that actually acknowledged and moved against the Reaper threat and assisted Shepard in such would work for the Reapers?

Honestly, if you weren't thinking "He's indoctrinated" the very second you saw the Saren eyes then i don't know what to tell you.

Well, let's start with the fact that Shepard has similar eyes.

And then let's go with that TIM isn't indoctrinated until later on in ME3, while he's had the eyes for decades.

As for over-the-top-evil, oh yes, because luring people in to be attacked by Threasher Maws, injecting people with Threasher Maw acid, breeding giant violent bugs, and kidnapping children for experiments that would make certain unethical scientists swoon, are the signs of such a SUBTLEY written organization.

How many people in the galaxy knew about them? Akuze doesn't even get considered unless you have two witnesses, one of them a Cerberus scientist participant. Nor was Cerberus breeding Rachni. Nor was Teltin sanctioned in its extent.

Besides that you don't know the motivations or context behind half of what you cite, of course.

I'd LOVE to know the context for injecting Threasher Acid into someone. As for Jack's little home away from home, bull crap. The person who tells you it wasn't sanctioned is freaking Miranda! Someone who's head was so up TIM's backside she could tell what his fiber intake was!  And it STILL doesn't paint TIM in a good light if he was telling the truth about this as it shows just how little control he actually has over his happy little club.

And Cerberus WAS breeding Rachni! UNC: Cerberus had a base full of the blasted things, and then you had UNC Depot Sigma-23 where a bunch of the things got loose and spread to other planets and the ship was Cerberus. They were breeding the mass conquest bugs thinking they could be tamed as part of a super soldier program and, like most of their little projects, it bit them in the back. Hard.

As for how many people knew about Threasher Maws, I'd assume quite a number of people considering the things are in the blasted CODEX which is an in universe source I'm not sorry to say.

Modifié par khordlambert, 12 février 2012 - 07:42 .

[Dave Exclamation Mark Yognaut]

The only thing I want to save the Illusive Man from is his mortal coil.

[Dean_the_Young]

khordlambert wrote...


I'd LOVE to know the context for injecting Threasher Acid into someone.

Medical trials or experiments would be an obvious category, depending on the alterations to the acid so that it wouldn't melt him like it can tanks.

As for Jack's little home away from home, bull crap. The person who tells you it wasn't sanctioned is freaking Miranda! Someone who's head was so up TIM's backside she could tell what his fiber intake was! 

The people who tell us it wasn't sanctioned were the recordings we ourselves found.

And it STILL doesn't paint TIM in a good light if he was telling the truth about this as it shows just how little control he actually has over his happy little club.

Only in the sense that it means he's not omniscient, and that people can go behind his back without Shepard's prior knowledge.

That'd be, like, half of Shepard's team at this point. Hardly a damning standard.

And Cerberus WAS breeding Rachni! UNC: Cerberus had a base full of the blasted things, and then you had UNC Depot Sigma-23 where a bunch of the things got loose and spread to other planets and the ship was Cerberus. They were breeding the mass conquest bugs thinking they could be tamed as part of a super soldier program and, like most of their little projects, it bit them in the back. Hard.

Cerberus was not breeding, because there was only one fertile Rachni and that one was on Noveria. Cerberus bought Rachni from Noveria.

And no, you have no basis to make a statistical claim on Cerberus projects.

As for how many people knew about Threasher Maws, I'd assume quite a number of people considering the things are in the blasted CODEX which is an in universe source I'm not sorry to say.

It's one thing to know a danger exists, and another to understand the extent of it. Understanding the full capability of a danger is a valid concern: if the last major Thresher incident was hundreds of years ago in a context with inferior technology, it could well have meant that the Threshers were a 'danger if unprepared' sort of issue. For all we knew, Cerberus might have been hoping that 50 alliance marines, including special forces, would be overkill.

Without knowing what, exactly, Cerberus and the Alliance knew at the time, and what they wanted to find out, we can't make any sound conclusion on what their approach was. Information minimalism is a great literary tool for establishing foreboding, but horrible for deciphering intent. It only opens up the door for projection and assumption.

[RainyDayLover]

I don't support TIM or his ideas and I'd be happy to put a bullet in his brain come ME3...

But that being said...he's one of the greatest characters to come out of this series and his character deserved a lot better treatment than what he got. Just sayin'

[khordlambert]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

khordlambert wrote...


I'd LOVE to know the context for injecting Threasher Acid into someone.

Medical trials or experiments would be an obvious category, depending on the alterations to the acid so that it wouldn't melt him like it can tanks.

As for Jack's little home away from home, bull crap. The person who tells you it wasn't sanctioned is freaking Miranda! Someone who's head was so up TIM's backside she could tell what his fiber intake was! 

The people who tell us it wasn't sanctioned were the recordings we ourselves found.

And it STILL doesn't paint TIM in a good light if he was telling the truth about this as it shows just how little control he actually has over his happy little club.

Only in the sense that it means he's not omniscient, and that people can go behind his back without Shepard's prior knowledge.

That'd be, like, half of Shepard's team at this point. Hardly a damning standard.

And Cerberus WAS breeding Rachni! UNC: Cerberus had a base full of the blasted things, and then you had UNC Depot Sigma-23 where a bunch of the things got loose and spread to other planets and the ship was Cerberus. They were breeding the mass conquest bugs thinking they could be tamed as part of a super soldier program and, like most of their little projects, it bit them in the back. Hard.

Cerberus was not breeding, because there was only one fertile Rachni and that one was on Noveria. Cerberus bought Rachni from Noveria.

And no, you have no basis to make a statistical claim on Cerberus projects.

As for how many people knew about Threasher Maws, I'd assume quite a number of people considering the things are in the blasted CODEX which is an in universe source I'm not sorry to say.

It's one thing to know a danger exists, and another to understand the extent of it. Understanding the full capability of a danger is a valid concern: if the last major Thresher incident was hundreds of years ago in a context with inferior technology, it could well have meant that the Threshers were a 'danger if unprepared' sort of issue. For all we knew, Cerberus might have been hoping that 50 alliance marines, including special forces, would be overkill.

Without knowing what, exactly, Cerberus and the Alliance knew at the time, and what they wanted to find out, we can't make any sound conclusion on what their approach was. Information minimalism is a great literary tool for establishing foreboding, but horrible for deciphering intent. It only opens up the door for projection and assumption.

So you're telling me that the only way to test Threasher acid is to grab a traumatized soldier and inject him with it? If so that just might be one of the worst things I've ever heard anyone say on any forum I frequent.

And I do have a basis for a statistical claim on Cerberus projects. Every time, EVERY TIME we've seen one of those projects, The Rachni, The Thorian Creepers, Project Lazarus, Project Overlord, studying the Reaper corpse, Super Husk Grayson, and that Swarm of Hyper Husks from the comics the project has gone belly up, or in the case of Lazarus in the process of going belly up, and put a number of innocent people are at risk with Overlord in particular nearly causing a Skynet incident!

The only one that that didn't fail or nearly due to their own ineptitude was the Therasher Acid test and what did they gain from it? They found out that they're mix won't melt you, and it hurts. Yay.

[Corvus Metus]

The Illusive Man is a great character, likely one of my favorite in the series. At the same time, he's a stone cold evil bastard. There isn't really any getting around that.

Sure, he doesn't have direct oversight on most of the projects that Cerberus works but I'd wager he certainly knows what's going on. To him, means justify the ends and results matter more than ethics.

He's also a zealot. Even if he was indoctrinated, chances are he wouldn't really even be aware of it. Or care, if the Reaper's convinced him that humanity would be their chosen servants.

[Tup3x]

My Shep doesn't get satisfaction in killing but in this case she would definitely pull the trigger. More than once.

[pcf43]

Tup3xi wrote...

My Shep doesn't get satisfaction in killing but in this case she would definitely pull the trigger. More than once.

Don't know if I would kill him that would depend on how the plot evolves in ME3, but I would send him to an Alliance or Council court to make him answer for his crimes if I get the option, that's for sure.

[Hyperion II]

@khordlambert - I humbly bow before your epicness.

As for OP, TIMy-boy is a dead man walking. Sure, the body has some catching-up to do, but the man was deader then dead from the moment I realized how ruthless he was.

[JosephDucreux]

inb4CerberusHatingKiddies-oh f*ck, too late.

Dammit.

Back on topic, if Mac Walters wasn't the one who wrote the script and instead, Christopher Nolan was the writer, and if Bioware didn't bend over backwards to pander to the kids, TIM would be redeemable and he'd be the most awesome morally ambiguous villain to ever exist.

But unfortunately...Mac Walters IS writing the script, and Bioware LOVES bending over backward to pander to the kids. So, no. TIM's gonna be unredeemable, like it or not.

Modifié par JosephDucreux, 14 février 2012 - 10:10 .

[KotorEffect3]

JosephDucreux wrote...

inb4CerberusHatingKiddies-oh f*ck, too late.

Dammit.

Back on topic, if Mac Walters wasn't the one who wrote the script and instead, Christopher Nolan was the writer, and if Bioware didn't bend over backwards to pander to the kids, TIM would be redeemable and he'd be the most awesome morally ambiguous villain to ever exist.

But unfortunately...Mac Walters IS writing the script, and Bioware LOVES bending over backward to pander to the kids. So, no. TIM's gonna be unredeemable, like it or not.

Sounds like you are whining because they didn't pander to you.

[Labrev]

Ieldra2 wrote...

I think ME3's story will be open to interpreting TIM as a tragic figure instead of a "for-the-evulz" villain.

However, that doesn't excuse the over-the-top presentation of Cerberus' atrocities, paired with an incompetence usually only the villains and politicians are allowed to show. I've said it countless times: if your evil doesn't have a point, players who think about things instead of just being in for the ride will cease to take it seriously. Also invoking evil by association (presenting things people tend to associate with evil without there being any justification for it, in order to make things appear evil which aren't and morally invalidate technologies) has the same effect. Both has been done with awful regularity in Cerberus-related writing.

IMO TIM will be beyond saving in ME3, for reasons unrelated to any decision we make. He may, however, not be beyond redemption. His main merit remains: without him, Shepard would be dead, and who knows if there would've been another one to take up Shepard's mantle. Wherever he ends up in ME3, he made a decisive contribution to saving the galaxy.

For the most part, I agree with this. Particularly with "over-the-top." I liked the idea of Cerberus in an antagonist role to Shepard, but they did their usual thing and got carried away, as they do with so many things in the game.


I actually remember thinking, playing ME2 again after ME1 (played ME2 first), that TIM was like the new Saren - a master-manipulator type character. Only unlike Saren, who's trecherous from start to finish of ME1, TIM appears to be your friend. I'm not suprised they took TIM down the Saren path in ME3, but I also feel like that kills his unique overall character in a big way and they should have strived to make it conclude differently.

Modifié par Hah Yes Reapers, 15 février 2012 - 08:12 .

[Seifer006]

khordlambert wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

khordlambert wrote...

I'd call it more, something I saw coming a fragging mile away.

You saw that the single group that actually acknowledged and moved against the Reaper threat and assisted Shepard in such would work for the Reapers?

Honestly, if you weren't thinking "He's indoctrinated" the very second you saw the Saren eyes then i don't know what to tell you.

Well, let's start with the fact that Shepard has similar eyes.

And then let's go with that TIM isn't indoctrinated until later on in ME3, while he's had the eyes for decades.

As for over-the-top-evil, oh yes, because luring people in to be attacked by Threasher Maws, injecting people with Threasher Maw acid, breeding giant violent bugs, and kidnapping children for experiments that would make certain unethical scientists swoon, are the signs of such a SUBTLEY written organization.

How many people in the galaxy knew about them? Akuze doesn't even get considered unless you have two witnesses, one of them a Cerberus scientist participant. Nor was Cerberus breeding Rachni. Nor was Teltin sanctioned in its extent.

Besides that you don't know the motivations or context behind half of what you cite, of course.

I'd LOVE to know the context for injecting Threasher Acid into someone. As for Jack's little home away from home, bull crap. The person who tells you it wasn't sanctioned is freaking Miranda! Someone who's head was so up TIM's backside she could tell what his fiber intake was!  And it STILL doesn't paint TIM in a good light if he was telling the truth about this as it shows just how little control he actually has over his happy little club.

And Cerberus WAS breeding Rachni! UNC: Cerberus had a base full of the blasted things, and then you had UNC Depot Sigma-23 where a bunch of the things got loose and spread to other planets and the ship was Cerberus. They were breeding the mass conquest bugs thinking they could be tamed as part of a super soldier program and, like most of their little projects, it bit them in the back. Hard.

As for how many people knew about Threasher Maws, I'd assume quite a number of people considering the things are in the blasted CODEX which is an in universe source I'm not sorry to say.

The Trailer (VA Cast Reveal) shows Liara pointing her gun at a HOLLOWGRAM and not TIM in actual person