712 réponses à ce sujet

[Bleachrude]

JoePilot wrote...

Brenon Holmes wrote...

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Brenon, could you bring more details into that? It's a RAM memory issue or disc-space file size issue? It's a problem exclusive to the demo or the full game too?

It's a runtime memory cost, not a disk space issue. You need those anims for the non-combat areas... so they're going to be on disk regardless.

In order to support exploration in the combat areas, you'd need to have all the anims loaded in memory... so that would be things like the 8-way walks, runs, incline anims, idles, idle twitches, male/female variant overrides, eye noise... etc.

All in all (iirc) it came out to around 2-4MB, which is relatively significant. Also, as you've guessed, yes - I'm referring to the main game (as well as the demo).

Wow.  Well done guys, glad you're priorities were in the right place.  <_<

This is why we don't have developers interacting with fans since when he gives a honest answer, he gets snide comments.

And what would you have taken out? Given that the addition of melee (a CQC infiltrator like Kasumi is fabulous) and combat rolls (there's no way to avoid grenades for example without the roll and grenades are a wonderful adddition to enemy tactics), I'm sorry but I'm siding with the "not that important crowd".

Honestly, I think the best policy would've been for PC players to ask Bioware not to release ME2 or ME3 simultaneous with the Xbox360 and just let another company port it over if they wanted.,,and yes, I do think the Xbox360 should've be the primary focus.

We as PC players complain about console games but ME was a Xbox exclusive and it would be hypocritical of me to argue that Bioware should focus on the PC version of a game that was originally a console game. I mean, part of my problem with DA2  _WAS_ bioware playing too much to the console crowd  so I can't turn around and say "hey bioware, why u not focusing on PC version of ME"

[wijse]

At least Deus Ex 3 was a port and optimized for the PC as well being called the superior version of all three versions. I don't care if ME3 is a  port, as long as it is optimiezd for the PC! 

Modifié par wijse, 13 février 2012 - 08:07 .

[Heavy01]

wijse wrote...

At least Deus Ex 3 was a port and optimized for the PC as well being called the superior version of all three versions. I don't care if ME3 is a  port, as long as it is optimiezd for the PC! 

But it will not. Usually a good pc port without limitations shows you a developer actually cares for his game, and uses the power of a machine that has no limitations to see their creation in all its glory. (Battlefield 3, human revolution, The witcher 2, Crysis, Metro 2033, Valve games, etc)

Then there are companies who are just in for the money.

[VonAnsorge]

Some people in my counry already played the PC demo (on an event called biocon) and it seems, that you can not holster your weapon aswell. What a surprise.....

[_symphony]

BioWare, let me help you with this code snippet

IZ THIS A PC?    
   YARLY         
      CAN HAS full_animations?    
   NOWAI         
      BTW consoles have memory limitations         
      CAN HAS min_animations?       
KTHX

I'm assuming ME3 is written in LOLcode, let me know if I'm mistaken.

Modifié par _symphony, 13 février 2012 - 10:23 .

[Zatou]

I used to holster my weapons after every fight in both ME1/2.

I'll miss this feature a lot.

[TheRealJayDee]

Zatou wrote...

I used to holster my weapons after every fight in both ME1/2.

I'll miss this feature a lot.

This.

[Finis Valorum]

Bleachrude wrote...

We as PC players complain about console games but ME was a Xbox exclusive and it would be hypocritical of me to argue that Bioware should focus on the PC version of a game that was originally a console game. I mean, part of my problem with DA2  _WAS_ bioware playing too much to the console crowd  so I can't turn around and say "hey bioware, why u not focusing on PC version of ME"

Okay, how is making a proper interface and keeping something that was in the previous games, a thing for which the animations already exist, in the PC version suddenly equal to focusing on it?
And, yes, I've already said that if it means we actually get a decent version, I'd be quite willing to wait a few extra months for it, so they can either outsource it or work on it themselves after the console versions are out the door, so to speak.

[killerteeth]

You guys, you're right. This is a minor issue...the first minor issue. Soon they'll be another one, and another one, and another one. We don't even know if they if they screwed up the story again. Who knows? ME3 could easily turn out to be as bad as Deception.

[MrFob]

killerteeth wrote...

You guys, you're right. This is a minor issue...the first minor issue. Soon they'll be another one, and another one, and another one. We don't even know if they if they screwed up the story again. Who knows? ME3 could easily turn out to be as bad as Deception.

Let's not over-react here.

However I do agree that these "minor" issues usually have a tendency to pile up and hamper the game experience in the end.

As for all the people here that complain that PC gamers feel entitled to ask for an implementation of this feature, that's not the case. Except for a few individuals, no one has demanded anything of BW. We are just voicing our concerns about a missing feature, we got used to and we'd like to see again and we point out that on PC, the memory constraints are a non-issue. What BW does with this information is totally up to them but I can just they that as a PC gamer I'd really appreciate having the option to holster my gun. I'd like for the console gamers to have it too but I get that on the consoles it's a real problem.
Now I am not an expert on how complicated it would be to program that feature into the PC version. I think that since all the components are already in the game it shouldn't be too hard but then, there might by compatibility and QA problems that prevent it from happening.
I just hope that by this thread the devs appreciate how many people like this feature (no matter the platform) and maybe that it might be worth the extra effort to put it in when possible.
In any case, another clarifying statement would be great.

[wijse]

killerteeth wrote...

You guys, you're right. This is a minor issue...the first minor issue. Soon they'll be another one, and another one, and another one. We don't even know if they if they screwed up the story again. Who knows? ME3 could easily turn out to be as bad as Deception.

No the issue at hand is not minor. THE ISSUE AT HAND is Mass Effect 3 not being optimized for pcs when one of the bioware employees say that momory problems and certain animations were not included because of the limitations of the 7 year old hardware in consoles.

Modifié par wijse, 14 février 2012 - 03:50 .

[MrFob]

wijse wrote...

killerteeth wrote...

You guys, you're right. This is a minor issue...the first minor issue. Soon they'll be another one, and another one, and another one. We don't even know if they if they screwed up the story again. Who knows? ME3 could easily turn out to be as bad as Deception.

No the issue at hand is not minor. THE ISSUE AT HAND is Mass Effect 3 not being optimized for pcs when one of the bioware employees say that momory problems and certain animations were not included because of the limitations of the 7 year old hardware in consoles.

That sounds like s discussion for a new thread though. I'd just like to holster my gun for now.

[wijse]

MrFob wrote...

wijse wrote...

killerteeth wrote...

You guys, you're right. This is a minor issue...the first minor issue. Soon they'll be another one, and another one, and another one. We don't even know if they if they screwed up the story again. Who knows? ME3 could easily turn out to be as bad as Deception.

No the issue at hand is not minor. THE ISSUE AT HAND is Mass Effect 3 not being optimized for pcs when one of the bioware employees say that momory problems and certain animations were not included because of the limitations of the 7 year old hardware in consoles.

That sounds like s discussion for a new thread though. I'd just like to holster my gun for now.

Apparently if you've read the bioware response in this thread you will figure out that why being able to holster is not in the game is because of memory limitations of said animations, which is a codeword for it will be too heavy for the consoles to bear because of all the other new stuff they have put in the game. Which lead to the following conclusion: That the PC version of the game has not been optimized for the PC

Modifié par wijse, 14 février 2012 - 06:25 .

[MrFob]

No no, I get that, it's just that I'd like to concentrate this thread on the holstering issue. There is another thread which is concerned with more general pc optimization questions, here. Let's keep this one focused.
Also people, show support for this if you want to keep being able to holster your guns whenever you want. The more the better.

Modifié par MrFob, 14 février 2012 - 06:15 .

[JamesIV4]

I'm going to sound foolish but hear me out. The frustration of not being able exit the combat tunnel-vision prompted me to cut off the demo before I even made it off Earth. Its stressful to always have the gun up, letting players lower it gives a needed moment of relief and mixes things up enough to keep them from getting stale.

I don't believe this is a small issue. Please don't take this as complaining, but a legitimate concern from a fan who loved Mass Effect 1 and 2

[DayusMakhina]

JamesIV4 wrote...

I'm going to sound foolish but hear me out. The frustration of not being able exit the combat tunnel-vision prompted me to cut off the demo before I even made it off Earth. Its stressful to always have the gun up, letting players lower it gives a needed moment of relief and mixes things up enough to keep them from getting stale.

I don't believe this is a small issue. Please don't take this as complaining, but a legitimate concern from a fan who loved Mass Effect 1 and 2

You are right, you are going to sound foolish (not saying you are). There is no logical reason why cutting one single animation that serves no specific purpose (and it really doesn't, it's nice to be able to holster your gun but it doesn't affect the gameplay in any way) should be seen as a big issue. Of course, it's merely your own opinion and you are entitled to that, but I just don't see how you've gotten to it.

From my perspective it's disappointing holstering is gone, but if there's a limit on the amount of animations that can be loaded it would be far more disappointing if some of the animations that affect gameplay were gone instead. Though there is the fact that female characters have their own animations which they've done that quite simply are not important... but then lots of people complained about the lack of female animations in 2 and actively wanted them in 3. Looks like holstering was the sacrifice for that.

Modifié par DayusMakhina, 14 février 2012 - 07:31 .

[shaneofthedead]

what the ***** is EYE NOISE!?!??!!?

[MrFob]

DayusMakhina wrote...

From my perspective it's disappointing holstering is gone, but if there's a limit on the amount of animations that can be loaded it would be far more disappointing if some of the animations that affect gameplay were gone instead. Though there is the fact that female characters have their own animations which they've done that quite simply are not important... but then lots of people complained about the lack of female animations in 2 and actively wanted them in 3. Looks like holstering was the sacrifice for that.

I absolutely agree. If there is a constraint, better to take something like this out then anything else and I do understand why they had to do it on consoles. However, since the pc doesn't have that kind of constraint, I hope it'll be a feature/be patched in/moddable for pc.

[andy6915]

MrFob wrote...

DayusMakhina wrote...

From my perspective it's disappointing holstering is gone, but if there's a limit on the amount of animations that can be loaded it would be far more disappointing if some of the animations that affect gameplay were gone instead. Though there is the fact that female characters have their own animations which they've done that quite simply are not important... but then lots of people complained about the lack of female animations in 2 and actively wanted them in 3. Looks like holstering was the sacrifice for that.

I absolutely agree. If there is a constraint, better to take something like this out then anything else and I do understand why they had to do it on consoles. However, since the pc doesn't have that kind of constraint, I hope it'll be a feature/be patched in/moddable for pc.

There is no excuse for it, the animation is already there. Every single time you switch weapons, you do the animation of putting the gun away and bringing up another, which means the holster animation wasn't even removed and is still 100% in the game. The only, ONLY, thing Bioware removed was the ability to manually do so without pulling another weapon out.

Fact is, this excuse they game is horsecrap and obviously untrue, considering the animation is still there plain as day. They just forgot or something and pulled something out of their ass to try to calm people down with a crappy excuse. Regardless of what the Bioware rep said, this isn't an animation limitation or a memory limitation, and saying it was is just a lie.

Modifié par andy69156915, 14 février 2012 - 09:47 .

[mybudgee]

two things; 1st, everybody take it easy. It a DEMO. Second, little details like holstering weapons is what makes Bioware games special. I am confident they will not dissappoint <_<

Modifié par mybudgee, 14 février 2012 - 09:50 .

[andy6915]

mybudgee wrote...

two things; 1st, everybody take it easy. It a DEMO. Second, little details like holstering weapons is what makes Bioware games special. I am confident they will not dissappoint <_<

You missed the part where a Biware developer admitted it's not in ME3 at all, right?

[hawat333]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

In combat areas, you have your gun out... in more hub-like areas you don't.

It's unfortunate, but sadly it was needed to claw back a significant chunk of memory. 

Oh, that's interesting.
Out of curiosity, how much memory did it eat?

[Xtreme-Tiramisu]

As a PC player, I'm also not pleased to see that we're restricted by limitations of a console. I truely hope to see a different approach for the PC version when the game comes out, perhaps in an official patch.

[andy6915]

Xtreme-Tiramisu wrote...

As a PC player, I'm also not pleased to see that we're restricted by limitations of a console. I truely hope to see a different approach for the PC version when the game comes out, perhaps in an official patch.

That's just it though, it's not a limitation of a console, the animation is still there for all weapons, and switching weapons still does it. All they did was arbitrarily to no longer let you do it manually for some no reason, and then when we started getting mad, tried to make the console version the scapegoat to have people mad at something that wasn't them.

It takes only a few seconds of logic and reasoning to figure this out. You fell for it, but I'm putting the blame squarely where it belongs, on Bioware.

[string3r]

What a disappointment.