712 réponses à ce sujet

[darkheartedmk]

if I'm to honest if I had things like husks or reapers anywhere near or just the idea of them being near me I wouldnt holster my gun,but really is it that important,besides real soilders in hot zones have there weapons at the ready especially in war time

[didymos1120]

andy69156915 wrote...

That's just it though, it's not a limitation of a console, the animation is still there for all weapons, and switching weapons still does it.

Yes, those weapon-switching animations, plural, are still there (which, well, duh).  What aren't there are all the other animations that get loaded when characters are in "weapons holstered" mode.  You simply failed to understand what Brenon Holmes was saying.

Modifié par didymos1120, 14 février 2012 - 10:16 .

[wijse]

andy69156915 wrote...

Xtreme-Tiramisu wrote...

As a PC player, I'm also not pleased to see that we're restricted by limitations of a console. I truely hope to see a different approach for the PC version when the game comes out, perhaps in an official patch.

That's just it though, it's not a limitation of a console, the animation is still there for all weapons, and switching weapons still does it. All they did was arbitrarily to no longer let you do it manually for some no reason, and then when we started getting mad, tried to make the console version the scapegoat to have people mad at something that wasn't them.

It takes only a few seconds of logic and reasoning to figure this out. You fell for it, but I'm putting the blame squarely where it belongs, on Bioware.

They left out other animations because the memory on the console which has 7 years old hardware couldn't keep up with the all the new stuff they have put in, so they removed holstering animations. That means the game is not optimized to run on PC's and a limitation of 7 years old hardware in consoles.

[andy6915]

didymos1120 wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

That's just it though, it's not a limitation of a console, the animation is still there for all weapons, and switching weapons still does it.

Yes, those weapon-switching animations, plural, are still there.  What aren't there are all the other animations that get loaded when characters are in "weapons holstered" mode.  You simply failed to understand what Brenon Holmes was saying.

Except those are there too. He said, when in a non-combat zone or hub areas (like Mordin's clinic in ME2, where the game forces you to keep your weapons away) you holster your weapons. That means that you walk around those area with weapons holstered... Meaning those animations, the ones with weapons holstered, are also still totally in the game too. You are the one who failed to understand.

wijse wrote...
They left out other animations because the memory on the console which has 7 years old hardware couldn't keep up with the all the new stuff they have put in, so they removed holstering animations. That means the game is not optimized to run on PC's and a limitation of 7 years old hardware in consoles.

Except...

holstering animation-still there
animations when your weapons are holstered and you're walking around as such-still there

Obviously, hardware isn't getting in the way of anything here.

Modifié par andy69156915, 14 février 2012 - 10:22 .

[VictimN7]

Isn't the Back(or select button) a quicksave feature now?

Modifié par VictimN7, 14 février 2012 - 10:28 .

[Raxxman]

andy69156915 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

That's just it though, it's not a limitation of a console, the animation is still there for all weapons, and switching weapons still does it.

Yes, those weapon-switching animations, plural, are still there.  What aren't there are all the other animations that get loaded when characters are in "weapons holstered" mode.  You simply failed to understand what Brenon Holmes was saying.

Except those are there too. He said, when in a non-combat zone or hub areas (like Mordin's clinic in ME2, where the game forces you to keep your weapons away) you holster your weapons. That means that you walk around those area with weapons holstered... Meaning those animations, the ones with weapons holstered, are also still totally in the game too. You are the one who failed to understand.

wijse wrote...
They left out other animations because the memory on the console which has 7 years old hardware couldn't keep up with the all the new stuff they have put in, so they removed holstering animations. That means the game is not optimized to run on PC's and a limitation of 7 years old hardware in consoles.

Except...

holstering animation-still there
animations when your weapons are holstered and you're walking around as such-still there

Obviously, hardware isn't getting in the way of anything here.

Weapon switching includes the entirety of the holstering animation, this is true.

ergo the problem is probably in the walking/run animations.

[didymos1120]

Andy, they're only loaded into memory (i.e. the RAM) outside combat zones. That's what he was saying, so yeah: you failed to understand. And yes, obviously the other animations are on the disc...which, again, duh.

Modifié par didymos1120, 14 février 2012 - 10:39 .

[Srefanius]

Bioware better should take in this again with the first patch...

[Fiery Phoenix]

Srefanius wrote...

Bioware better should take in this again with the first patch...

I'm fairly certain they could fix it with a patch if they tried, but I totally don't see it happening.

[Comsky159]

VictimN7 wrote...

Isn't the Back(or select button) a quicksave feature now?

Quicksave would be my personal preference, it's one of the things I really missed using ME2 on ps3. The point of view cutscenes constitute a worthy compromise imo.

[Halo Quea]

andy69156915 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

That's just it though, it's not a limitation of a console, the animation is still there for all weapons, and switching weapons still does it.

Yes, those weapon-switching animations, plural, are still there.  What aren't there are all the other animations that get loaded when characters are in "weapons holstered" mode.  You simply failed to understand what Brenon Holmes was saying.

Except those are there too. He said, when in a non-combat zone or hub areas (like Mordin's clinic in ME2, where the game forces you to keep your weapons away) you holster your weapons. That means that you walk around those area with weapons holstered... Meaning those animations, the ones with weapons holstered, are also still totally in the game too. You are the one who failed to understand.

wijse wrote...
They left out other animations because the memory on the console which has 7 years old hardware couldn't keep up with the all the new stuff they have put in, so they removed holstering animations. That means the game is not optimized to run on PC's and a limitation of 7 years old hardware in consoles.

Except...

holstering animation-still there
animations when your weapons are holstered and you're walking around as such-still there

Obviously, hardware isn't getting in the way of anything here.

I said that about a mile back, but clearly no one was paying attention.  

Sure the consoles are old and can't do half of what my PC is capable of, but there's really nothing so wrong with  consoles that they can't still perform respectfully.   Look at what CD Projekt Red is doing with the 360's hardware.  It really comes down to skill or developer laziness as a determining factor on how these games ultimately look and play.

[Unato]

i dont see what's so hard to understand about what Brenon has said the Xbox 360 has 512MB of memory and the PS3 has 256 System + 256 Video memory.

the amount of memory used when holstered weapon animation + other animation + other data is loaded into memory in a combat area exceeds or comes close to exceeding the system memory of w/e is the limitation (PS3 or Xbox) therefore they chose the "least important" variable and removed it

[SpiritBraker]

andy69156915 wrote...

Xtreme-Tiramisu wrote...

As a PC player, I'm also not pleased to see that we're restricted by limitations of a console. I truely hope to see a different approach for the PC version when the game comes out, perhaps in an official patch.

That's just it though, it's not a limitation of a console, the animation is still there for all weapons, and switching weapons still does it. All they did was arbitrarily to no longer let you do it manually for some no reason, and then when we started getting mad, tried to make the console version the scapegoat to have people mad at something that wasn't them.

It takes only a few seconds of logic and reasoning to figure this out. You fell for it, but I'm putting the blame squarely where it belongs, on Bioware.

Or, of course, the gamepad isn't a keyboard, so they might have run out of buttons and just make excuses about memory.

Although when you think of it, it really is the walk/run, with/without weapon anims that are causing trouble. As the dev said, they made it so only one of those anims is loaded. (the holster anim, specifically, is not the problem here)
I'm pretty sure a modder can come up with a decent camera hack for the PC version (to escape the weapon tunnel vision FOV), so I'm not worried about these things.

[Finis Valorum]

Unato wrote...

i dont see what's so hard to understand about what Brenon has said the Xbox 360 has 512MB of memory and the PS3 has 256 System + 256 Video memory.

the amount of memory used when holstered weapon animation + other animation + other data is loaded into memory in a combat area exceeds or comes close to exceeding the system memory of w/e is the limitation (PS3 or Xbox) therefore they chose the "least important" variable and removed it

Still doesn't change the fact that Bioware/EA refuse to optimize gameplay for the Pc at a time when many other AAA developers do. which is guess makes them not an AAA developer after all.
Also holmes talked about an extra 2-4 mb of memory right? If that's the case I bet kinect support takes up more then that, so I guess it isn't even optimized for the PS3 either.
So it's just them focusing on one platform to the exclusion of all others.

SpiritBraker wrote...

I'm pretty sure a modder can come
up with a decent camera hack for the PC version (to escape the weapon
tunnel vision FOV), so I'm not worried about these things.

Even so, you'd still have Shepard and co stupidly pointing their guns everywhere, all the time.
And due to the rather unfriendly nature of the ME engine when it comes to modding we'll have to wait months for something the devs could probably easily implement in just a few hours.

Modifié par Finis Valorum, 14 février 2012 - 11:16 .

[Srefanius]

Unato wrote...

i dont see what's so hard to understand about what Brenon has said the Xbox 360 has 512MB of memory and the PS3 has 256 System + 256 Video memory.

the amount of memory used when holstered weapon animation + other animation + other data is loaded into memory in a combat area exceeds or comes close to exceeding the system memory of w/e is the limitation (PS3 or Xbox) therefore they chose the "least important" variable and removed it

Its not about the consoles (at least for me), its about the pc version...

[Unato]

I imagine that's the price we pay for simultaneous releases. if say Xbox ME3 was released in March and then PS3 in May then PC in July then maybe we can expect more optimized builds

[Finis Valorum]

Unato wrote...

I imagine that's the price we pay for simultaneous releases. if say Xbox ME3 was released in March and then PS3 in May then PC in July then maybe we can expect more optimized builds

Yeah, except they keep repeating the it's not a port mantra, so if it really isn't and they really did work on all the versions simultaneously, then they must have made the conscious design decision to limit the performance and features of all versions to the ones supported by the lowest common denominator without a shred of thought being given to any optimization of the other versions whatsoever.

[GreenSoda]

andy69156915 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

That's just it though, it's not a limitation of a console, the animation is still there for all weapons, and switching weapons still does it.

Yes, those weapon-switching animations, plural, are still there.  What aren't there are all the other animations that get loaded when characters are in "weapons holstered" mode.  You simply failed to understand what Brenon Holmes was saying.

Except those are there too. He said, when in a non-combat zone or hub areas (like Mordin's clinic in ME2, where the game forces you to keep your weapons away) you holster your weapons. That means that you walk around those area with weapons holstered... Meaning those animations, the ones with weapons holstered, are also still totally in the game too. You are the one who failed to understand.

wijse wrote...
They left out other animations because the memory on the console which has 7 years old hardware couldn't keep up with the all the new stuff they have put in, so they removed holstering animations. That means the game is not optimized to run on PC's and a limitation of 7 years old hardware in consoles.

Except...

holstering animation-still there
animations when your weapons are holstered and you're walking around as such-still there

Obviously, hardware isn't getting in the way of anything here.

...I think you don't grasp what RAM is. They animations are obviously there on the disc -that does not mean that there is enough room in the memory for them at any given time. *That's* the HW limitation of the consoles everyone is talking about.

Of course you would not have this problem with the PC, but the general modus operandi of BW seems to be: "no extra effort for the PC" so I certainly would not expect the situation to be any different there.

Modifié par GreenSoda, 14 février 2012 - 11:21 .

[Finis Valorum]

GreenSoda wrote...

Of course you would not have this problem on the PC, but the general modus operandi of BW seems to be: "No extra effort for the PC" so you won't profit from that.

And yet we pay the same price as the console versions while our platform is cheaper to release for due to console developers not taking a hefty cut, so we get no optimizations whatsover for more profits per unit sold for them.

[agn25]

andy69156915 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

That's just it though, it's not a limitation of a console, the animation is still there for all weapons, and switching weapons still does it.

Yes, those weapon-switching animations, plural, are still there.  What aren't there are all the other animations that get loaded when characters are in "weapons holstered" mode.  You simply failed to understand what Brenon Holmes was saying.

Except those are there too. He said, when in a non-combat zone or hub areas (like Mordin's clinic in ME2, where the game forces you to keep your weapons away) you holster your weapons. That means that you walk around those area with weapons holstered... Meaning those animations, the ones with weapons holstered, are also still totally in the game too. You are the one who failed to understand.

wijse wrote...
They left out other animations because the memory on the console which has 7 years old hardware couldn't keep up with the all the new stuff they have put in, so they removed holstering animations. That means the game is not optimized to run on PC's and a limitation of 7 years old hardware in consoles.

Except...

holstering animation-still there
animations when your weapons are holstered and you're walking around as such-still there

Obviously, hardware isn't getting in the way of anything here.

 I think we need to take the devs word on this.As he mentions in his post its the limitation of the xbox's RAM that is the issue. As you say andy all the animations are on the disc and can be transfered to storage however RAM is the amount of memory or data that can be used or executed from theCPU. Each time ingame that you are watching a load screen it is transfering data to main memory  (aka RAM) either from the CD or hard drive. It also is overwriting the data that was previously stored in the main memory.It has been mentioned already earlier in this thread that the xbox has about 512MB of RAM so just because the animations are in memory storage or on disk the xbox can only hold 512MB of data for fast execution. It seems with all the new movement animations doubled with femshep and other graphical upgrades the xbox's capacity forced the devs to cut the holstered animations from action loads and most probably gun out anamations from non combat loads. 
 This excuse only holds for consoles not for the PC.
 Out of interest whats the RAM for the PS3? ummm dont bother someone already mentioned it.

Modifié par agn25, 14 février 2012 - 11:37 .

[Siegdrifa]

Raxxman wrote...

Weapon switching includes the entirety of the holstering animation, this is true.

ergo the problem is probably in the walking/run animations.

This is my understanding, the moving animation while carrying and holster weapon are different.
By limiting it depending on what kind of place you are (fighting zone or non fightning), the other isn't load onto the ram to save ressources.

Now for pc, the question still remain if they will put it later in a patch ar not, because usualy, pc under 1giga of rame is rare, 2giga is more the average and lot of gamers carry 3giga or above ... so a few mega isn't the problem.

[Takamori The Templar]

If they plan on a "future" patch, they can wait for my money to arrive in the "future" too.
Refuse to play a badly optimized pc game, after my Skyrim experience with crashes and UI I'm done with it.

[Giluc]

Aww, that's too bad. I like being able to take the camera around for a spin. I generally don't fancy the camera angle when you have your weapon drawn, if there are no enemies that need shooting.

[Texhnolyze101]

Unato wrote...

i dont see what's so hard to understand about what Brenon has said the Xbox 360 has 512MB of memory and the PS3 has 256 System + 256 Video memory.

the amount of memory used when holstered weapon animation + other animation + other data is loaded into memory in a combat area exceeds or comes close to exceeding the system memory of w/e is the limitation (PS3 or Xbox) therefore they chose the "least important" variable and removed it

I honestly blame kinect it is the most useless feature they added to ME3 and i would rather have the ability to holster my gun than yell at my tv screen...such a waste.

[h4wkeye1]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

In combat areas, you have your gun out... in more hub-like areas you don't.

It's unfortunate, but sadly it was needed to claw back a significant chunk of memory. 

You know, PC doesn't have memory issues, I have plenty available. You could've at least include that on the PC.