712 réponses à ce sujet

[didymos1120]

Finis Valorum wrote...

Even then you'd still have Shepard stupidly pointing their gun in all nice screenshots, which is annoying in and of itself.
And a good enough PC could easily load all the animations anyway so there's no reason to cripple us just because the consoles can't.

Yes, I know that.  I'm not saying it's perfect,  which is why my original post said "at least there's that."

[DJBare]

Unfortunately Holmes has just reaffirmed console limitations, that's not an attack that's a reality, I'm not against consoles and I hope the next iteration brings them more up to date in hardware and performance, I could not imagine being a game for current console developer, the constraints would drive me insane.

[Finis Valorum]

DJBare wrote...

Unfortunately Holmes has just reaffirmed console limitations, that's not an attack that's a reality, I'm not against consoles and I hope the next iteration brings them more up to date in hardware and performance, I could not imagine being a game for current console developer, the constraints would drive me insane.

Any ideas when that next iteration will be? Because the current amount of RAM on consoles is indeed at smart phone levels, as others have pointed out already.

And it still remains annoying as hell that a large number of publishers and developers always try to claim that their PC versions aren't ports when they really are, I wish they'd be honest about that too for a change.

Modifié par Finis Valorum, 13 février 2012 - 01:23 .

[agn25]

This is the first piece of disappointing news I have heard about ME3. It has the potential (for me)to be as annoying as not having a helmet toggle in ME2 or not being able to pull out a weapon in hub worlds. Maybe it wont be an issue for us PC players?I guess the PC demo in a couple days will reveal all.

[Terror_K]

Y'know... maybe they'd have had a tad more memory if they hadn't wasted it on combat rolls and all these stupid melee animations, etc.

Just sayin'...

[Someone With Mass]

Yeah, let's remove the melee and combat rolls one can use to avoid enemy attacks and deal a lot of damage with to add something that has no practical use whatsoever.

That will surely make everything better.

[DJBare]

Finis Valorum wrote...

Any ideas when that next iteration will be? Because the current amount of RAM on consoles is indeed at smart phone levels, as others have pointed out already.

That depends on hardware cost, the biggest selling point of consoles is the price tag, if the hardware cost too much then the console will cost too much, they have to find a balance in price/performance, a gaming pc is relatively cheap these days, but not many want to fuss around setting up a pc, they want their gaming experience out of the box.

[Finis Valorum]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Yeah, let's remove the melee and combat rolls one can use to avoid enemy attacks and deal a lot of damage with to add something that has no practical use whatsoever.

That will surely make everything better.

while the melee attacks do seem rather nice, I for one could have done without the combat rolls.

DJBare wrote...

That depends on hardware cost, the
biggest selling point of consoles is the price tag, if the hardware
cost too much then the console will cost too much, they have to find a
balance in price/performance, a gaming pc is relatively cheap these
days, but not many want to fuss around setting up a pc, they want their
gaming experience out of the box.

Which is a darned shame if you ask me because a gaming PC can offer so much more then a console.
Well if they could make a next gen console for the price tag of a decent smartphone it seems to me like it'd be sellable.
I just hope the next gen consoles come soon since while I have no need to upgrade my computer anymore at this rate, I just don't fancy say four more years of this sort of thing in all the major releases.

Modifié par Finis Valorum, 13 février 2012 - 01:37 .

[RyuGuitarFreak]

Terror_K wrote...

Y'know... maybe they'd have had a tad more memory if they hadn't wasted it on combat rolls and all these stupid melee animations, etc.

Just sayin'...

Oh I'm disappointed with this issue, but I'll take gameplay features over the ability of taking pretty screenshots ANY DAY.

[Someone With Mass]

Finis Valorum wrote...

Any ideas when that next iteration will be? Because the current amount of RAM on consoles is indeed at smart phone levels, as others have pointed out already.

Well, Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo have promised to show their new consoles at E3.

[Icinix]

DJBare wrote...

Finis Valorum wrote...

Any ideas when that next iteration will be? Because the current amount of RAM on consoles is indeed at smart phone levels, as others have pointed out already.

That depends on hardware cost, the biggest selling point of consoles is the price tag, if the hardware cost too much then the console will cost too much, they have to find a balance in price/performance, a gaming pc is relatively cheap these days, but not many want to fuss around setting up a pc, they want their gaming experience out of the box.

I would also say that it looks like the next gen consoles are all trying to one up each other on the control department rather than the hardware.

It seems most money is being spent on touch screens, audio in the controller, further motion control etc.

[Terror_K]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Yeah, let's remove the melee and combat rolls one can use to avoid enemy attacks and deal a lot of damage with to add something that has no practical use whatsoever.

That will surely make everything better.

Here's the thing... we didn't need combat rolls to succeed in ME1 and ME2.  And, let's be honest, it's really more of a style thing than a practical thing. It's clearly more about looking badass and mobile than functionality.

Secondly, this is a ranged combat game based around projectyle weapons. Now, I have nothing against beefing up the melee, since it was damn near useless in the other two titles when you really needed it. But to put so much focus and effort into it, and to give every class their own unique super whoop-de-doo heavy melee attacks like CQC is a major part of the game is going a bit far, IMO.

Modifié par Terror_K, 13 février 2012 - 01:39 .

[Finis Valorum]

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Oh I'm disappointed with this issue, but I'll take gameplay features over the ability of taking pretty screenshots ANY DAY.

Except that on the PC there's no good reason why you couldn't have both, especially if the PC version *isn't* in fact a port as they're so fond of saying.

Modifié par Finis Valorum, 13 février 2012 - 02:13 .

[EatChildren]

Terror_K, I don't really think you understand the overhaul BioWare has made to the combat system. You're right, in ME1 and ME2 these moves were unnecessary, but only because the combat itself was barebones. Functionally, ME1/ME2 is easily exploitable by playing whack-a-mole from a single piece of cover, maximising damage as waves of dumb AI enemies spawn in. I enjoy shooting stuff in both games, but the combat is nothing to write home about.

Given the 360 demo, BioWare has tried pretty hard to bring the encounter and combat design up to the standard more third person shooters are at. Enemies are smarter, more dynamic, and make more effort to push you out of cover. Enemies are equipped with extra abilities and skills, like Shepard, to expand their arsenal and attack abilities. In all, the combat is faster, and you can't really camp behind a single piece of cover anymore.

Thus, keeping Shepard's movements and skills exactly the same as the last two games would have proved to be a hindrance. They wanted to give players more mobility and to avoid close range attacks, so they added the combat roll. They wanted to steer the game away from shooting gallery whack-a-mole and allow players to get up close with melee and biotic attacks, so they added new melee functions. It's a richer, deeper and more involved combat system no longer held back by the basics of the last two games.

This has likely been a significant factor in RAM limitations, yes. More functions, more to remember, more animation sets to call, and greater AI dynamics require more memory. But it all serves a very important purpose in the fabric of ME3's overhauled combat system. It's not just flashy rolls and stabs, it's there to expand the combat and avoid the fairly bland encounter design of the predecessors.

Not that I don't feel disappointment about not being able to holster weapons, because I do, just that I don't feel these two elements are right for criticism, even if they did contribute to the current state.

[CerberusSoldier]

Terror_K wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Yeah, let's remove the melee and combat rolls one can use to avoid enemy attacks and deal a lot of damage with to add something that has no practical use whatsoever.

That will surely make everything better.

Here's the thing... we didn't need combat rolls to succeed in ME1 and ME2.  And, let's be honest, it's really more of a style thing than a practical thing. It's clearly more about looking badass and mobile than functionality.

Secondly, this is a ranged combat game based around projectyle weapons. Now, I have nothing against beefing up the melee, since it was damn near useless in the other two titles when you really needed it. But to put so much focus and effort into it, and to give every class their own unique super whoop-de-doo heavy melee attacks like CQC is a major part of the game is going a bit far, IMO.

  



Bioware is trying to evolve the game play in 3 because 1 and 2 ME Games have had ****** poor combat compared to Gears of War games ,

[Someone With Mass]

Finis Valorum wrote...
while the melee attacks do seem rather nice, I for one could have done without the combat rolls.

The enemies seems to make good use of them, though.

[finc.loki]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Brenon, could you bring more details into that? It's a RAM memory issue or disc-space file size issue? It's a problem exclusive to the demo or the full game too?

It's a runtime memory cost, not a disk space issue. You need those anims for the non-combat areas... so they're going to be on disk regardless.

In order to support exploration in the combat areas, you'd need to have all the anims loaded in memory... so that would be things like the 8-way walks, runs, incline anims, idles, idle twitches, male/female variant overrides, eye noise... etc.

All in all (iirc) it came out to around 2-4MB, which is relatively significant. Also, as you've guessed, yes - I'm referring to the main game (as well as the demo).

For the love of ANYTHING, please tell me this doesn't affect PC users.
Cause if it does, then Bioware literally takes a dump on us PC users. We sit on GIGS of RAM, 2-4 MB is NOTHING.

Also where is the HD texture pack, any PC can run them today, even 5 year old PC's.

Step up your game Bioware.

[Wulfram]

finc.loki wrote...

Cause if it does, then Bioware literally takes a dump on us PC users.

Um, no. It doesn't.  Hopefully.

They figuratively take a dump on us PC users.  Though I think that's a bit harsh.

[RyuGuitarFreak]

Finis Valorum wrote...

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Oh I'm disappointed with this issue, but I'll take gameplay features over the ability of taking pretty screenshots ANY DAY.

Except that on the PC there's no good reason why you couldn't have both, especially if the PC version *isn't* in fact a port as they're so fond of saying.

I know it, but ME team doesn't priviledge us in any way. 3 versions are the same. For the better, or for the worse. In my most honest opinion, they should follow Bethesda's route. Their work on the 3 versions is mostly virtually the same, but give the PC community mod tolls so they can do whatever they want with the game. Not that this is going to happen, but whatever...

Modifié par RyuGuitarFreak, 13 février 2012 - 02:30 .

[finc.loki]

Wulfram wrote...

finc.loki wrote...

Cause if it does, then Bioware literally takes a dump on us PC users.

Um, no. It doesn't.  Hopefully.

They figuratively take a dump on us PC users.  Though I think that's a bit harsh.

Well if they don't let us PC players holster our weapons cause they have 2-4 MB limitations on consoles whereas PC players sit at anything from 2-16 GIG of ram.

Then yes I could actually feel the warm smelly dump on my head. Not just figuratively. That is how silly and bad it would be.
Especially with the more than likely lies about PC version not being a port.

I mean if they can make a quick/hot bar for 1-8 or 9 abilities in the UI, they sure as hell can just enable the holster mechanic at any time and the cost of LOLLOOCOPTERSLMAO 2-4 MB size.

Now more than ever we see how disgustingly ridiculously pathetic the consoles are in HW limitations.

Bioware ( the devs making the DA 2) let us have an optional HD texture pack, will the Edmonton team of ME developers do the right thing here, or are they too good for it?

[RyuGuitarFreak]

Terror_K wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Yeah, let's remove the melee and combat rolls one can use to avoid enemy attacks and deal a lot of damage with to add something that has no practical use whatsoever.

That will surely make everything better.

Here's the thing... we didn't need combat rolls to succeed in ME1 and ME2.  And, let's be honest, it's really more of a style thing than a practical thing. It's clearly more about looking badass and mobile than functionality.

Secondly, this is a ranged combat game based around projectyle weapons. Now, I have nothing against beefing up the melee, since it was damn near useless in the other two titles when you really needed it. But to put so much focus and effort into it, and to give every class their own unique super whoop-de-doo heavy melee attacks like CQC is a major part of the game is going a bit far, IMO.

I don't think so. Are you a PC gamer? If so, it's pre-judgement like what I'm gonna do now, but here I go...

The combat roll does add a LOT in the combat, there's a lot of praticality, specially when they improved the enemy AI, the variety in types of enemies, and their tactics. Not to mention that the enemies and squadmates do it themselves, like mentioned, to evade biotics for example, which is really considering that only special enemies have barriers now.

Trailers showed how the combat roll can be used to avoid a lot of different attacks, specially in cqc when you're facing huge and agressive enemies like the brute or the banshee that can charge at you. Not mentioning that Cerberus uses grenades at their advantage and you can avoid them much faster with the help of a roll, or even when you have a laser from a sniper scoped aimed at you. How is the combat roll more of a style than a practical thing?

And how is CQC not a major part of the game when you have a class exclusively focussed into it and how wouldn't they put more effort into as seen how the Vanguard was so praised and loved for the charge ability in ME2? I assume you're not a big fan of the Vanguard if you said that . Not even gonna mention the Sentinel capabilities and the CQC Infiltrator. Hell, I for one as many others desired with passion something more of a good finishing move (a falcon biotic punch, which is what we got!) for our strategy of charging/shotgun/melee than after the shotgun blast the melee would be more effective, it's not nearly useless like you said, not if you use the gauntlets that give you 25% more damage. The strategy already was effective, but we wanted something more practical and stylish (why the hell not) than spamming melee until they drop dead. A longer, more effective melee attack could be just exactly that.

And your argument that "this is a ranged combat game based around projectyle weapons" is strange. Bioware is trying to make it more than that, giving CQC options for different builds and strategies, not only for one class that majorly NEEDS IT, for all clasess, and somehow they're going too far? Can't agree with that.

Modifié par RyuGuitarFreak, 13 février 2012 - 02:51 .

[Finis Valorum]

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

I know it, but ME team doesn't priviledge us in any way. 3 versions are the same. For the better, or for the worse. In my most honest opinion, they should follow Bethesda's route. Their work on the 3 versions is mostly virtually the same, but give the PC community mod tolls so they can do whatever they want with the game. Not that this is going to happen, but whatever...

I'd be ectstatic if we actually got some real mod tools, since it's not like the unreal engine doesn't allow for modding or anything.
Still even real mod tools wouldn't do us any good if they did, for example, hard code a 512mb limit for loading animations (except that we could possibly make a mod where we could make an alternative cover system and thus swap out the combat rolls for holstering for example).

[Fredvdp]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

All in all (iirc) it came out to around 2-4MB, which is relatively significant. Also, as you've guessed, yes - I'm referring to the main game (as well as the demo).

What about the PC version? 2-4 MB is not much on a current-gen system.

[Heavy01]

jreezy wrote...

No it's petty. As is your attitude towards consoles in the rest of the post I didn't bother to quote.

Typical console player.