54 réponses à ce sujet

[kingthrall]

there should of just been a alternitive outcome, where the dwarf was taken into the cell of the imprisoned templar and another character from your party did the fade with a "weaker version" of the sloth demon. Then you just free your main character with your party afterwards

[Trelow-LMG]

Haasth wrote...


As for the Fade. It is stated that every living being, with exception to the Dwarves, go into the fade when they dream. It is also stated that only Mages can activily control themselves while in the Fade with the exception of people being forced into the fade against their will. (Like the Sloth demon does, thus explaining non-Mages such as say a Human Warrior to walk around in the Fade)

How this affects Dwarves is still a little odd. It is stated multiple times that they have no connection to the Fade (Unless possibly newer generations of Surface Dwarves) thus Oghren nor the dwarf PC should be influenced by the Fade. However as the Sloth Demon forces them through Magic, I suppose that is the only reasonable explanation. Dwarves are not immune to magic, just inheritly resistant.

So in essence the best we can think of is "a wizard did it?"

[Trelow-LMG]

To me, with the information we are given in the game, we are talking XTREME awesomeness for anyone to be able to do the things that they are doing in the fade during that sequence.

[Forumtroll]

Dwarves do not dream when they sleep. Darkspawn do. Drinking darkspawn blood allows dwarves a connection to the Fade. Doesn't explain why Oghren can go into the Fade.

[Drake Sigar]

There are numerous excuses for Dwarves enterering The Fade, all of which the Codex laughs at.



Codex: "Dwarves cannot enter The Fade."



Me: "Yeah but what if I-"



Codex: "THEY CAN'T ENTER THE FADE!"



Me: "Never?"



Codex: "Never, ever."



I think they just wrote themselves into a corner on that one.

[Forumtroll]

A wizard did it.

[Taleroth]

Drake Sigar wrote...

There are numerous excuses for Dwarves enterering The Fade, all of which the Codex laughs at.

Codex: "Dwarves cannot enter The Fade."

Me: "Yeah but what if I-"

Codex: "THEY CAN'T ENTER THE FADE!"

Me: "Never?"

Codex: "Never, ever."

I think they just wrote themselves into a corner on that one.

Most Codex entries are written by characters and, thus, are not objective truths.

A Dwarf who fails to find a way to enter the Fade, may indeed claim it is impossible.  I doubt they have too many dealings with Sloth Abominations to experiment with.

Similarly, a human may claim it's impossible for Dwarves simply by virtue of a belief that Dwarves are soulless.

Modifié par Taleroth, 24 novembre 2009 - 04:44 .

[Mummolus]

Dwarves do not dream when they sleep. Darkspawn do. Drinking darkspawn blood allows dwarves a connection to the Fade. Doesn't explain why Oghren can go into the Fade.

Oghren drinks a lot of things, maybe some of it had darkspawn blood as a secret ingredient.



Or maybe not so secret. It's Oghren after all.

[tiagopestana]

The thread reminded me of this:



http://www.penny-arc...omic/2009/11/2/

[Valfreyja]

Deadly wrote...

bjornis wrote...

Deadly wrote...

I think the dwarves, when they go to the surface, are no more linked to the Stone and the Paragons are meaningless for you, once you become a Grey Warden. You lose your caste betweeen the ranks of your people, so there is no need to be buried in the Stone anymore.

This is why you become susceptible to the Fade, imo.

Wrong on that one. If you join the Grey Wardens you keep your status and caste even if you go to the surface. That's explained in one of the codex entries and was a motion passed by a dwarven king long long before the Ferelden present day.

yeah, but i was talking about dwarven Grey Wardens that go to the surface to face the darkspawn (the character you play, for example), they get exiled don't they?
Also, when you enter Lothering, Alistair tells you that you are now a Warden, and because of that the nobles that exiled you cannot arm you in any way, when you go to Orzammar (i have not yet reached it, so i don't know what happens).

Yeah, but you were already exiled before becoming a Grey Warden(sentenced to death as a commoner, exile as a noble), but since you're a GW I'm not surprised that the exile and death sentence doesn't stand anymore considering the dwarves seem to honor the GW's a lot more than anyone else. Though since you were exiled before becoming a GW, I'd be surprised if they'd let you take over the throne. Logical even though it sucks a bit.

[Fulgrim88]

Tennmuerti wrote...

When the sloth demon saw that you were a dwarf he sprayed some hallucinogens in your face and you had a mind trip. Upon waking up you realised that hallucinogen increased your attributes because it had hormones in it and you also had a better understanding of the world so that your cunning and willpower increased etc...

The reason you saw others in the fade is because sloth was trying out a mind link to make it more trippy.

We can't stay in the Fade! It is bat country!

Still, this is the most plausible explanation so far. I'd love to have an honest Dev-post on that topic

[soteria]

I hated going to the fade as a dwarf. Not because of the lore, but because I couldn't use the lyrium, and I had to choose between waiting forever to heal up the slow way or burning potions between fights.

[ComTrav]

It was also frustrating not being able to use lyrium during the Anvil section.



I clearly misunderstood the lore, here, as I thought as a dwarf I would logically be able to handle it safely and thus be able to use it.

[Taerda]

soteria wrote...

I hated going to the fade as a dwarf. Not because of the lore, but because I couldn't use the lyrium, and I had to choose between waiting forever to heal up the slow way or burning potions between fights.

Why did you not just switch to Spirit form, cast Regen(or was it Rejuvinate?) and then switch back to normal form? That Spirit healing is really powerful - even used it in fights.

[Taerda]

ComTrav wrote...

It was also frustrating not being able to use lyrium during the Anvil section.

I clearly misunderstood the lore, here, as I thought as a dwarf I would logically be able to handle it safely and thus be able to use it.

If dwarfs can't use lyrium, why can Branka? Is it because she was a smith?

[Rugaru]

Yes you can handle it safely...because it has no effect on you...

[Lughsan35]

Occam's razor demands that its the demonic influences in the taint that makes you a grey warden that allows you to enter the fade...



And if you played like me and helped the curious dwarf girl go to the Mage's tower the end note for her..calls her by her name preceded by a Mage Title as in Mage:her .. now if you played the Mage origin story ..



You know that it isn't possible to be called Mage unless you complete the Tower Circle's Harrowing. Being tested IN THE FADE. You aren't allowed to do that until the master's think you have what it takes to complete it, which leads to the Tranquil (to protect from becoming apostate or abomination).



So She (the Npsc Dwarf) went to the Tower and not only studied magic, she became adept enough at it to negotiate the Fade. And pass the Harrowing, ergo, while not ALL dwarves are impervious to/absent from the Fade, some clearly are...



And Perhaps, just perhaps, The dwarves only Believe they don't enter the Fade when they dream, but they really do... too much booze and stone....



How else does one explain the Dwarven ghosts you fight (fade entities) the Golems, having a neblous soul like essence that can be trapped, which is an astral body and Faderific?

[Rugaru]

Lughsan, the epilogue I got with the dwarf girl said she got an honorary title of Mage, because of her research, not because she could use magic.

Dwarves have souls souls don't HAVE to go to the fade dwarf souls return to the stone. Be it from "shielding" from the outside world and the fade from the lyrium mines for generations or whatever but they still have souls and so can be fused to golems or linger as ghosts.

[Edit] Also there are reports of lyrium addled dwarves, however it took about 30 years of constant exposier to dust in the mines. So I suppose if you wanted to "reconnect" a dwarf to magic and the fade or what not, then you could just give him tons of paper cuts and force him to breath nothing but lyrium dust and eventually you may get a working dwarf mage...

Modifié par Couldar, 25 novembre 2009 - 09:11 .

[Trelow-LMG]

Actually, IMHO Occam's Razor demands that a wizard did it, in other words, gameplay decision.



I'd also like those dang dwarven ghosts explained. A little part of me died when I saw that lovely little staple appear.





Totally agree with Fulgrim88, I'd really like to see a definitive answer on this. We can speculate all we want, however all the lore we have is viewpoints, theories, and mythologies of the peoples of Ferelden. The mechanics restrict us from having dwarven wizards, and offer the explanation that it's because we have no connection to the fade, not that we don't believe that we have a connection to the fade. I'd like to think that the mechanics were factual, even if it is metaknowlege.

[Valmy]

Alocormin wrote...

What does the Joining have to do with this?

The Darkspawn have a connection with the Fade, that is where they supposedly come from.  After all once you do the Joining you start to dream...and dreams can only happen in the Fade.  Dwarves do not normally dream IIRC.

Of course that doesn't explain Oghren...

Modifié par Valmy, 25 novembre 2009 - 04:23 .

[Trelow-LMG]

Valmy wrote...

Alocormin wrote...

What does the Joining have to do with this?

The Darkspawn have a connection with the Fade, that is where they supposedly come from.  After all once you do the Joining you start to dream...and dreams can only happen in the Fade.  Dwarves do not normally dream IIRC.

Of course that doesn't explain Oghren...

I can see that, but it seems like a huge stretch that you would have that much freedom and control in the Fade, for anybody except an extremly powerful wizard, let alone a dwarf. We get the power to change our "physical" forms. That's a pretty extreme force of will as I understand.

[Taleroth]

Couldar wrote...

Yes you can handle it safely...because it has no effect on you...

Except when it does, as evidenced by one of the two shopkeepers in the main area.

[RunCDFirst]

Valmy wrote...
The Darkspawn have a connection with the Fade, that is where they supposedly come from.  After all once you do the Joining you start to dream...and dreams can only happen in the Fade.  Dwarves do not normally dream IIRC.

Of course that doesn't explain Oghren...

Where does this come from? From my understanding, the darkspawn 'dreams' are more akin to the Grey Warden's receiving the darkspawn hive mind while they are asleep and mentally weakened. Aside from Emissaries who use magic, there's little suggestion that I've found that say the darkspawn are intricately tied to the Fade. 

[Mummolus]

As a matter of fact Avernus states quite clearly that the darkspawn are not tied to the fade.

[Trelow-LMG]

Mummolus wrote...

As a matter of fact Avernus states quite clearly that the darkspawn are not tied to the fade.

The plot thickens...