421 réponses à ce sujet

[chengthao]

Prom001 wrote...

well why then do any research at all? Why write all the codex and lore stuff if you then jump around all over the place?
I mean who needs logic, story, Consistency and all then when you can have Action?

b/c they want to go main-stream and make more money from the CoD crowd (the casual gamers)

Modifié par chengthao, 13 février 2012 - 01:47 .

[iPhantomous]

Officers

2nd Lieutenant
1st Lieutenant
Staff Lieutenant
Lieutenant Commander
Staff Commander
Captain/Major
Rear Admiral/General
Admiral
Fleet Admiral

So that's the list. No full "Commander" rank as opposed to what we see in the demo.
What really confused me, is why Captain (naval) is the equivalent to Major (army/marine)
Since that's the case, will Commander be a higher or lower rank than Captain?

[chengthao]

iPhantomous wrote...

Officers

2nd Lieutenant
1st Lieutenant
Staff Lieutenant
Lieutenant Commander
Staff Commander
Captain/Major
Rear Admiral/General
Admiral
Fleet Admiral

So that's the list. No full "Commander" rank as opposed to what we see in the demo.
What really confused me, is why Captain (naval) is the equivalent to Major (army/marine)
Since that's the case, will Commander be a higher or lower rank than Captain?

the ranks in general make no sense, whats the difference between a captain and a major, why have Marines but they're not actually Marines . . . i gave up trying to understand it

[Nizzemancer]

midgebaby42 wrote...

Forget about the ranks, think about a Marine bring called a soldier!!! Commander is a Naval/Coast Guard rank not a Marine rank. WTH!!!!! Even on my best days I would never call a Devil-Dog a soldier or a Soldier a marine that my friends is playing with fire. Just me barking at the moon.

Here's a hint: This isn't the US military and it's not present day, they can call a private a Major for all the good it's gonna do them.

[didymos1120]

chengthao wrote...


the ranks in general make no sense, whats the difference between a captain and a major, why have Marines but they're not actually Marines . . . i gave up trying to understand it

It's really not that hard:

Do you command ground troops?  Then you're styled "Major".
Do you command a ship? Then you're called "Captain".

As far as the Alliance marines go, it's simply not a separate service branch.  The Alliance has a unified command structure. That's why they're lowercase 'm' marines, not "Marines".

[chengthao]

didymos1120 wrote...

chengthao wrote...


the ranks in general make no sense, whats the difference between a captain and a major, why have Marines but they're not actually Marines . . . i gave up trying to understand it

It's really not that hard:

Do you command ground troops?  Then you're styled "Major".
Do you command a ship? Then you're called "Captain".

As far as the Alliance marines go, it's simply not a separate service branch.  The Alliance has a unified command structure. That's why they're lowercase 'm' marines, not "Marines".

why have separate rank structure tho? seems kinda pointless, why can't a "captain" command ground troops and a "major" command a ship

[Yezdigerd]

There is no separate rank structure, a major and captain are the same thing, major being closest to a honorific, nothing stops a marine major from commanding a ship or captain from commanding on the ground, marines is just a designation for navy personal primarly tasked with groundside work.

[Prom001]

I think they had a look at the Canadian Armed Forces no?

[Rudy Lis]

I said this before and I will say this again - Bioware failed their homework. I was not able to find any unit hierarchy, some people listed it here - starting from section, platoon and all the was up to armies (or fleets, say Mihailovich's flotilla - how big or small is it?). Also, I find their military ranks ladder "strange" at best.

Military rank (as well as insignia) is practically your resume - who are you and what you are capable of. You see sergeant - you can bet he is section commander, platoon SIC or perform some other role on that level. Lieutenant - platoon commander, captain - company, major - batallion, colonel - regiment. Some duties, however, require certain degree of skill, but they are hard to be reflected with ranks, thus we have warrant officers - usually highly skilled personnel, specializing into certain area. AFAIK, many of US Army pilots are CWOs. In Germany there is Stabshauptmann rank, practically "Staff (as HQ) Captain". He is not promoted to Major, only have same pay grade, but serves as Staff officer. And AFAIK similar ranks exists or existed in past in other armies. So having broad "rank ladder" is not necessary that bad, because some ranks may cover either duties (US Navy MCPO of the Fleet, for example (I hope incinerator950 will correct me if I'm wrong here), or their "area of specialization".
From what I see in ME universe, there is total lack of WO, in any form, total lack of colonels, and for some reasons there are three lieutenants. Without given explanations it's hard to pinpoint their "location" in alliance's hierarchy. Not only lieutenants (geez, German leutnant is far easier to type!), but most ranks. For example, all NCOs - are they just ranks, or duty-specific ranks, say Gunnery chief responsible for weapons, Operations chief - more "paperwork" and only Service chief just, well, serves.
Alenko's promotion is not that bad. In ME1 he was 32 y.o. Staff leutnant (hell with it!), and was Normandy's marines detail commander. I'd say he was a bit old (my coy commander was 33 y.o. captain) for his rank (I still don't get meaning of this rank - is he "oberleutnant" or really "Staff" one), but by my estimation there were no more than platoon of marines on board.

Since we know little about his earlier years, it's hard to tell what career path he had prior ME1. AFAIR he joined service when he was 22. Not that late for enlistment, but maybe, giving his biotics talents and possible education, he could be commissioned as officer or applied as NCO. So, for 10 years he got at least 3 ranks, 4 (5, if he was Lt-Cdr) in 12 and 5 (or 6) in, what, one year later? I'm not sure that he actually was Lt-Cdr, given his "vague" terms of service, he could skip that rank entirely and work really as "Staff" officer.

One thing I don't understand in ME3 - if he is commander of uber-biotics company, what the hell he doing on Normandy, away from his unit? Or now we have a whole pack of biotics on board, running around in strange clothes and screaming in high-pitched voices: "YESSS, MASSSTER?! WHO DO YOU WANT US TO WARP?! OR-OR M-MAYBE SLAM"?

Shepard. Even if he's enlisted, subsequent officer commission looks fine. I know, IRL examples do not apply to Bioware games (lol), but here, those who served as enlisted (conscripted, actually), have some "privileges" during application to officers' academy - just because they served. That's not much, but better than nothing - generally they'll select you, if you and some "fresh" applicant shows same scores. More than that - you can apply even while you serving. Also, there are "field" schools, applicable to certain specialties (for WO and officers as well). From WO school you'll graduate as WO and from officer's school you'll graduate as "junior" leutnant - there is no way to receive "graduation promotion", like in "normal" school. Pros - you spent less time there.

So, if imagine that Shepard followed that route, he could be around 22 when graduated. If there is graduation promotion, then he'll be 1st Lt. For 7 years of service prior ME1 2 ranks up is fine. Give his "special" status - more than fine.

However, I'm not sure his "special forces" status adds something - most SF personnel I know here are NCO or WO and they are more than decent folk. None of them running around and yelling "AHH, I"m fooking CWO for 16 years and there is no way to promotion!".


Williams. Strangest of all. Of course, you may object and say that there is Gottlob Bidermann who was 18 y.o. private at 1941 and ended up as 22 y.o. hauptmann in 1945, but there was constant war and he didn't jumped from senior NCO rank to 4th officer's rank in 6 months. So my position is same - if her rank is not temporarily, then Bioware definitely failed, it's not barrel roll it's flat spin. 

And it's not about my "feelings" toward Williams, it's what incinerator950 said - authority, position and capability of command. Even if she was good at her platoon/section, doesn't mean she will be able to perform duties of Lt-Cdr, on higher levels of subordination. And if she works solo as spectre, who gives ford what rank she is, just leave her as 2nd Lt if you really want to give her officer's promotion.

My two cents - they added her rank to give some "tensions" to her relationships with Shepard. Some sort of mexican stand-off:
- Ashley!
- Shepard!
- Ashley!
- Shepard!
- You betrayed alliance and served with cerberus!
- I was dead!
- You betrayed me!
- ****** or GTFO!
- Miranda? WTH you doing here?
Miranda slowly sips coffee:
- Enjoying the show (kudos to Epantiras), - sips coffee again, shoot Williams. - I'm femme fatale here!
*Sounds of clothing being unfastened*
- Oh, Miri...
Screens blackout.

Prom001 wrote...

I think they had a look at the Canadian Armed Forces no?

Looking at something doesn't make you to understand it.

Modifié par Rudy Lis, 13 février 2012 - 04:39 .

[Prom001]

rudy stimmt schon nur ich meinte die idee, dass die bodentruppen eben teil der Weltraummarine sind, kommt vermutlich von dort?

[thoththeblack]

Could it be that they reviewed all Ashley's record, realized that she had, more than once, been denied promotion based on her grandfather's record and not her own, and rectified a mistake? Maybe for political reasons - it would look bad if the second human Spectre could say to the press 'My own people didn't promote me as my record deserved because of something my ancestor did.'

[Rudy Lis]

Prom001 wrote...

rudy stimmt schon nur ich meinte die idee, dass die bodentruppen eben teil der Weltraummarine sind, kommt vermutlich von dort?

Bitte entschuldigen, mein Deutsch schlechter als mein Englisch.
But if I understood you correctly (and type everything correctly - last time I spoke German was around 2005 and had no practice whatsoever, only minor technical literature), I suppose you right.

thoththeblack wrote...

Could it be that they reviewed all Ashley's record, realized that she had, more than once, been denied promotion based on her grandfather's record and not her own, and rectified a mistake? Maybe for political reasons - it would look bad if the second human Spectre could say to the press 'My own people didn't promote me as my record deserved because of something my ancestor did.'

Officer's rank is not just "one more strip" on your shoulder straps, it complete different thing. There is much more reponsibility, duties and requirements, including amount of knowledge you need to learn. Should they turn her 2nd Lt, I doubt anyone voiced objections againt that decision. Giving her Lt-Cdr rank is more than... Well, my "polite profanities vocabulary: is rather empty, but I say that such act 1) practically spit into face of other officers, who waited years for such promotion, 2) undermines whole bloody chain of command, authority and rank systems, thus leading to insubordination and ignorance, reducing respect of your own military.

[Prom001]

I thought you where from a german speaking country sorry.

[Rudy Lis]

Prom001 wrote...

I thought you where from a german speaking country sorry.

No problem with that - I have 2 dictionaries around - 30 and 50K of words and still remember something (at least I hope).
I'd like to restore my skills, though. And my memory. At least part of it.

[Prom001]

for me this tread answer all the questions I had, what do you say?

[izmirtheastarach]

Apparently Ashley's time in grade in measured in weeks.

[Rudy Lis]

Prom001 wrote...

for me this tread answer all the questions I had, what do you say?

On your very first question in this topic? I thought I gave answer - Shepard and Alenko are fine, though rather "vague" (maybe something was explained by "extended universe", like books, but I do not read them), Williams is... not.

[Aimi]

Rudy Lis wrote...

On your very first question in this topic? I thought I gave answer - Shepard and Alenko are fine, though rather "vague" (maybe something was explained by "extended universe", like books, but I do not read them), Williams is... not.

Don't forget the fact that the actual hierarchy makes little to no sense.

[incinerator950]

daqs wrote...

Rudy Lis wrote...

On your very first question in this topic? I thought I gave answer - Shepard and Alenko are fine, though rather "vague" (maybe something was explained by "extended universe", like books, but I do not read them), Williams is... not.

Don't forget the fact that the actual hierarchy makes little to no sense.

It makes sense to me.  

[RVallant]

It's obvious (to me anyway). The VS, is basically the only alliance marine heavily associated with Shepard with experience of Reapers. Afaik by the 2nd game Anderson is using them to get evidence in favour of Shepard's info from the 1st game and it doesn't work.

Makes sense to fast track the VS in terms of rank and training given the missions they're doing 'off the grid'. Hence by the time 3 comes along, they're prime canidiates for Spectre promotion presumably to replace Shepard in that capacity for the Reaper mission (regardless of if Shepard is reinstated his orders are pretty much to stay out and his word is null and void in the Council's eyes at that point.)

[Rudy Lis]

daqs wrote...


Don't forget the fact that the actual hierarchy makes little to no sense.

"Actual" where? In-game or IRL? If IRL, then I agree with incinerator950

incinerator950 wrote...

It makes sense to me.  

I'm with you.

[incinerator950]

Rudy Lis wrote...

daqs wrote...


Don't forget the fact that the actual hierarchy makes little to no sense.

"Actual" where? In-game or IRL? If IRL, then I agree with incinerator950

incinerator950 wrote...

It makes sense to me.  

I'm with you.

I'm ex-Navy, four years out and I can still vaguely remeber E-1 through E-9 and E-10, and list off Ensign through Admirals and Staff or Supply.

Can't remember other branches though, but I'm living with my army buddy, I actually started to get him into ME 2.  

As for the Alliance Rank structure, I understand where it falls, what it means, and I can clearly see it in the ME 2 miscellaneous codex.  

Modifié par incinerator950, 13 février 2012 - 07:52 .

[thoththeblack]

The rank could also have to do with ship command. The VS is a Spectre and, like Shepard, could be given a ship with Alliance crew. Maybe even the Normandy while Shepard is grounded. They felt that she needed to be of a certain rank so they could order them about?

[Air36723]

As someone who has served in the military, the promotions and/or lack there of for some characters is just asinine. Anyone jumped in rank like ash was would NEVER have the respect of the lower enlisted because they would be seen as political appointments and not "earned". It would be a case of saying yes ma'am in the sarcastic manner. I'll admit ash deserves some promotions, but from gunnery chief to LtCDR in under 2 years? Not freakin likely unless someone called in a favor the size of our sun. Kaidan's promotion still slightly a stretch but more realistic then ash's. Lt to staff commander is believable, and another promotion when gaining command of his own unit is again correct. However, regardless of their ranks, if shepard is the COMMANDER of the normandy, appointed by an admiral, their ranks do NOT matter, shepard out ranks them due to the fact that he's in charge of the ship and the mission due to orders from an admiral.

If we take spectre status into account, then we have to open a whole can of worms that isnt relavent to the rank discussion so i'm not gonna go there.

[Aimi]

incinerator950 wrote...

It makes sense to me.  

Let me rephrase: the actual hierarchy makes sense, but the grade names don't.