421 réponses à ce sujet

[Gumbeaux Jr]

LOL @ "nip-picking"

[ddv.rsa]

Ashley/Kaidan was promoted for politcal reasons, it isn't such a stretch. In South Africa the last National Police Commissioner we had, instantly went from a civillian to being commissioned as a general of police. Reaching that rank would normally require decades of service, but it was a political appointment and he had to be given a rank appropriate to his office. Same with the VS.

Modifié par ddv.rsa, 13 février 2012 - 09:23 .

[izmirtheastarach]

ddv.rsa wrote...

Ashley/Kaidan was promoted for politcal reasons, it isn't such a stretch. In South Africa the last National Commissioner (police) we had, Bheki Cele, instantly went from a civillian to being appointed as a general of police. Reaching that rank would normally require decades of service, but it was a political appointment and he had to be given a rank appropriate to his office. Same with the VS.

Let's stick with Ashley, because Kaidan was promoted for logical reasons. There's no political apoinment. They are already military officers. I'm still not seeing a logical reason why Ash, as a senior NCO, needed to jump four ranks.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 13 février 2012 - 09:26 .

[ddv.rsa]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Let's stick with Ashley, because Kaidan was promoted for logical reasons. There's no political apoinment. They are military officers. I'm still not seeing a logical reason why Ash, as a senior NCO, needed to jump four ranks.

Of course there are lots of politics around who gets to become a spectre, especially with humans. Ashley had to get a rank suitable to her new role.

Modifié par ddv.rsa, 13 février 2012 - 09:29 .

[izmirtheastarach]

ddv.rsa wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Let's stick with Ashley, because Kaidan was promoted for logical reasons. There's no political apoinment. They are military officers. I'm still not seeing a logical reason why Ash, as a senior NCO, needed to jump four ranks.

Of course there are lots of politics around who gets to become a spectre, especially with humans. Ashley had to get a rank suitable to her new role.

That's not what happened though. Bioware has introduced a retcon when Ash became a Lieutenant Commander after the battle of the Citadel. That's in the codex in the leaked Beta. Even if don't want to credit that right now, there is no reason why a Spectre needs to hold any kind of military rank. A Spectre has unquestioned authority just by being a Spectre. My Shep refuses orders from Rear Admirals, bosses cops and soldiers around. Vasir and Saren issue order to entire police departments. Ash being a Lt. Commander gives her no more authority then if she had no rank at all. A Spectre is a Spectre.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 13 février 2012 - 09:34 .

[ddv.rsa]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Ash being a Lt. Commander gives her no more authority then if she had no rank at all. A Spectre is a Spectre.

No, it doesn't. But promoting her does make her look like a more credible spectre candidate to the Alliance public. If she was just an NCO people may criticise her apparent lack of qualifications. Or if she was just an Lt she wouldn't seem on par with Shepard, who she is evidently replacing. I think that specific rank was chosen to make her look just as qualified as Shepard.

[izmirtheastarach]

ddv.rsa wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Ash being a Lt. Commander gives her no more authority then if she had no rank at all. A Spectre is a Spectre.

No, it doesn't. But promoting her does make her look like a more credible spectre candidate to the Alliance public. If she was just an NCO people may criticise her apparent lack of qualifications. Or if she was just an Lt she wouldn't seem on par with Shepard, who she is evidently replacing. I think that specific rank was chosen to make her look just as qualified as Shepard.

That's all well and good, but not what happens in the game. It's a retcon by Bioware. All they had to do was have Anderson refer to her a some kind of Lieutenant in ME2. But he doesn't, he calls her an Operations Chief. Bumping a a 2nd LT up to LT Commander seems doable, but just magically making her an officer overnight and bumping her up four grades is a little much.

Anways, nothing to do about it now. We'll have to wait and see how they retcon it in the final release of ME3.

[Wulfram]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

I know some people have argued that promotion is needed in order to make someone a Spectre. But that makes no sense to me because being a Spectre carries it's own authority. I was able to say no to a Rear Admiral in ME1, based solely on my Shep's authority as a Spectre.

Theoretically that's true.  But in practical terms, your orders are going to have more weight if you have decent Alliance rank to back it up - and you might not have time to argue about the extent of Council jurisdiction and authority

The aliens wouldn't care.  They're used to Spectres.  But we've not been out there all that long.

edit: I agree that in retrospect it would probably have been better If Ashley was a lieutenant in ME2

Modifié par Wulfram, 13 février 2012 - 10:03 .

[izmirtheastarach]

This is the quote from the codex in the beta

"After earning numerous commendations early in her career, Williams became a platoon guide on Eden Prime, where she was the only member of her unit to survive the geth attack.

Williams then served as gunnery chief under Commander Shepard on the SSV Normandy and was promoted to lieutenant commander after the Battle of the Citadel. More recently, an Alliance tribunal called on Williams to testify about her experience with the Reapers."

Retcon. And one that makes even less sense then the suggestion of promoting her to make her a Spectre.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 13 février 2012 - 10:07 .

[NICKjnp]

Play the demo...he is no longer referred to as Lt. Commander in the character creator. Just Commander....wich probably means Shep was promoted. Don't be surprised of he is promoted to Captain/Major.

[izmirtheastarach]

NICKjnp wrote...

Play the demo...he is no longer referred to as Lt. Commander in the character creator. Just Commander....wich probably means Shep was promoted. Don't be surprised of he is promoted to Captain/Major.

How does that relate to this discussion? Also, literally the way he is promoted is when Anderson throws him his tags and calls him Commander. So...Staff Commander? Maybe? Not really all that official.

The part in the CC makes less sense. When was he promoted? Before or after the Reapers invaded? Did he recieve his promotion for working with a terrorist group, or was it for mudering 300,000 Batarians.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 13 février 2012 - 10:15 .

[NICKjnp]

It says Alliance reactivation protocol and refers to Shepard as Cdr. That sound fairly obvious that he is a commander now and not a lt. Commander. Take it up with a dev if you don't like it...but there it is at the beginning of the demo.

[ddv.rsa]

NICKjnp wrote...

It says Alliance reactivation protocol and refers to Shepard as Cdr. That sound fairly obvious that he is a commander now and not a lt. Commander. Take it up with a dev if you don't like it...but there it is at the beginning of the demo.

Except "commander" isn't actually an Alliance rank. At least not according to the codex from ME1/ME2.

[izmirtheastarach]

NICKjnp wrote...

It says Alliance reactivation protocol and refers to Shepard as Cdr. That sound fairly obvious that he is a commander now and not a lt. Commander. Take it up with a dev if you don't like it...but there it is at the beginning of the demo.

LOL. I'm not arguing with you. I have played the demo. Just wondering what the explanation is. Did you read what this thread is about?

And there is nothing to take up with anyone. The game is gold already.

ddv.rsa wrote...

Except "commander" isn't actually an Alliance rank. At least not according to the codex from ME1/ME2.

There's also that.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 13 février 2012 - 10:34 .

[Rudy Lis]

ddv.rsa wrote...


No, it doesn't. But promoting her does make her look like a more credible spectre candidate to the Alliance public. If she was just an NCO people may criticise her apparent lack of qualifications. Or if she was just an Lt she wouldn't seem on par with Shepard, who she is evidently replacing. I think that specific rank was chosen to make her look just as qualified as Shepard.

What public? Service personnel probably just ignore her and didn't give a damn to her promotion if she tried to "boss around". Maybe they will obey, maybe. But I doubt there will be any respect or she has to work really hard to earn that respect, probably even from those who knew her before. IMHO she could have more respect from fellow service personnel should she decline promotion and stays as NCO or, at least, 2nd Lt. And I don't understand why she didn't do that with all her "attitude".

Not sure about civies, but most people who didn't served and not gamers (at least haven't heard about ME) I asked about such kind of promotion and their reaction to it and person promoted, at least had those  looks and questions like "how the funk is that happened"?

So I stay with my old saying - talented and respected NCO promoted to Spectre should have greater amount of respect and support than NCO rocket-jumped to 4th officers' rank (practically IRL captain - company commander), promoted to Spectre.
 
But irony is this - all my Shepards have Ashley killed. So "Why do I do that? Why do I do that? Why do I do that? YEEAH!"

[izmirtheastarach]

Rudy Lis wrote...

What public? Service personnel probably just ignore her and didn't give a damn to her promotion if she tried to "boss around". Maybe they will obey, maybe. But I doubt there will be any respect or she has to work really hard to earn that respect, probably even from those who knew her before. IMHO she could have more respect from fellow service personnel should she decline promotion and stays as NCO or, at least, 2nd Lt. And I don't understand why she didn't do that with all her "attitude".

This is another fun point. Would Ash accept a "political" promotion after all her hard work?

Seems like the canon makes more sense with Kaidan on the squad. His promotions are at least vaguely deserved.

[Jestina]

The old Ash was all about...i'm an Alliance soldier to the core. Not the type I would picture wanting to be a lackey of the council.

And rank doesn't apply to Spectres since they are above all that and answer only to the council. Rank has nothing to do with who gets chosen to become a Spectre either.

Modifié par Jestina, 13 février 2012 - 11:10 .

[ddv.rsa]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

This is another fun point. Would Ash accept a "political" promotion after all her hard work?

Seems like the canon makes more sense with Kaidan on the squad. His promotions are at least vaguely deserved.

Ash was anti-politics while she and her family where pariahs. As soon as she was redeemed (through her association with Shepard, I might add) and started receiving attention she sold out. Horizon makes that painfully obvious. Now she's only too glad to lap up all the favours she can get.

[izmirtheastarach]

ddv.rsa wrote...

Ash was anti-politics while she and her family where pariahs. As soon as she was redeemed (through her association with Shepard, I might add) and started receiving attention she sold out. Horizon makes that painfully obvious. Now she's only too glad to lap up all the favours she can get.

Seems like you are reading a lot into things there. That wasn't my impression at all. She states explictly all throughout ME1 that she hates politics and politicians. In ME2, all she is doing is following orders. She was always a loyal Alliance soldier.

[Heimdall]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Rudy Lis wrote...

What public? Service personnel probably just ignore her and didn't give a damn to her promotion if she tried to "boss around". Maybe they will obey, maybe. But I doubt there will be any respect or she has to work really hard to earn that respect, probably even from those who knew her before. IMHO she could have more respect from fellow service personnel should she decline promotion and stays as NCO or, at least, 2nd Lt. And I don't understand why she didn't do that with all her "attitude".

This is another fun point. Would Ash accept a "political" promotion after all her hard work?

Seems like the canon makes more sense with Kaidan on the squad. His promotions are at least vaguely deserved.

ME1 makes it clear Ash is quite overqualified for her rank and posting.  Her rank is low despite all her hard work, I have no idea why she would decline the promotions she has been passed over for previously due to her family history.  Did she deserve quite the jump she did?  Perhaps not, but helping save the galaxy with humanity's first spectre does tend to impress a lot of people.

[Prom001]

ddv.rsa wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

This is another fun point. Would Ash accept a "political" promotion after all her hard work?

Seems like the canon makes more sense with Kaidan on the squad. His promotions are at least vaguely deserved.

Ash was anti-politics while she and her family where pariahs. As soon as she was redeemed (through her association with Shepard, I might add) and started receiving attention she sold out. Horizon makes that painfully obvious. Now she's only too glad to lap up all the favours she can get.

dont telll that to the ash lovers.

[izmirtheastarach]

Lord Aesir wrote...

ME1 makes it clear Ash is quite overqualified for her rank and posting.  Her rank is low despite all her hard work, I have no idea why she would decline the promotions she has been passed over for previously due to her family history.  Did she deserve quite the jump she did?  Perhaps not, but helping save the galaxy with humanity's first spectre does tend to impress a lot of people.

It's just the extreme nature of the promotion that makes it odd.

[ddv.rsa]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

ddv.rsa wrote...

Ash was anti-politics while she and her family where pariahs. As soon as she was redeemed (through her association with Shepard, I might add) and started receiving attention she sold out. Horizon makes that painfully obvious. Now she's only too glad to lap up all the favours she can get.

Seems like you are reading a lot into things there. That wasn't my impression at all. She states explictly all throughout ME1 that she hates politics and politicians. In ME2, all she is doing is following orders. She was always a loyal Alliance soldier.

While they shunned her she was happy to talk trash about the Alliance leadership and even participate in a mutiny (Ilos). Curiously, the minute she gained some status suddenly she was very concerned with loyalty and following orders- Shepard and the Reaper threat be damned. The man to whom she owed her success was suddenly just a turncoat and a traitor. Really, Ash on Horizon is no better than Udina confiscating the Normandy. She already had what she wanted from Shepard. Opportunistic <insert word for female dog> imo.

Modifié par ddv.rsa, 13 février 2012 - 11:40 .

[Heimdall]

ddv.rsa wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

ddv.rsa wrote...

Ash was anti-politics while she and her family where pariahs. As soon as she was redeemed (through her association with Shepard, I might add) and started receiving attention she sold out. Horizon makes that painfully obvious. Now she's only too glad to lap up all the favours she can get.

Seems like you are reading a lot into things there. That wasn't my impression at all. She states explictly all throughout ME1 that she hates politics and politicians. In ME2, all she is doing is following orders. She was always a loyal Alliance soldier.

While they shunned her she was happy to talk trash about the Alliance leadership and even participate in a mutiny (Ilos). Curiously, the minute she gained some status suddenly she was very concerned with loyalty and following orders- Shepard and the Reaper threat be damned. The man to whom she owed her success was suddenly just a turncoat and a traitor. Really, Ash on Horizon is no better than Udina confiscating the Normandy. She already had what she wanted from Shepard. Opportunistic <insert word for female dog> imo.

Ash was always a loyal alliance soldier, even if she grumbled about how some of the higher ups treated her.  Shepard had apparently not told her he was alive for two years and instead spent his time working with an enemy of the organization she has served near her entire life.  Of course she was angry.

[Heimdall]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

ME1 makes it clear Ash is quite overqualified for her rank and posting.  Her rank is low despite all her hard work, I have no idea why she would decline the promotions she has been passed over for previously due to her family history.  Did she deserve quite the jump she did?  Perhaps not, but helping save the galaxy with humanity's first spectre does tend to impress a lot of people.

It's just the extreme nature of the promotion that makes it odd.

Part of it was deserved, the last rank or two were probably political moves since the brass were trying to make her into Shepard's replacement.