421 réponses à ce sujet

[Rudy Lis]

Lord Aesir wrote...

 ME1 makes it clear Ash is quite overqualified for her rank and posting. 

Overqualified? How exemplary scores makes someone overqualified?

Lord Aesir wrote...

Her rank is low despite all her hard work,

Low? Excuse me, but at ME1 events she is 25 y.o. and she is Gunnery Chief. Since we have no idea about WO-replacement in ME universe, let's deal with sergeants. Matt Eversmann, during Gothic Serpent was 26 and he was Staff Sergeant. I see no problems here. I doubt his work was less hard than hers.

Lord Aesir wrote...

I have no idea why she would decline the promotions she has been passed over for previously due to her family history.

Why decline? Hard to explain. People with her "attitude" should have more common sense (oh my, common sense should be moved in red list of threatened species), plus such ethereal substances like, i don't know, honour and self-respect? Yes, her family had "history", maybe (emphasis on "maybe") some ranks were hold on her (don't see that, really), but accepting that pile of ranks dropped to her between ME2 and ME3? Didn't that put her on same deck with those who "oppressed" her family? At the end she accepted their offer, for me that's doesn't give her any credits.

Lord Aesir wrote...

Did she deserve quite the jump she did? Perhaps not, but helping save the galaxy with humanity's first spectre does tend to impress a lot of people.

And how her "overpromotion" helps that? Why Joker hasn't been promoted (yeah, I know, he joined Cerberus), but if not for him there were no Ilos drop (no Therum escape, no Citadel escape, no...). And he still flight lieutenant (WTF is that, there were no such rank in Codex?).

Lord Aesir wrote...

Ash was always a loyal alliance soldier, even if she grumbled about how some of the higher ups treated her. Shepard had apparently not told her he was alive for two years and instead spent his time working with an enemy of the organization she has served near her entire life. Of course she was angry.

Nevermind he was dead, btw. And when he tried to find her, Anderson made pokerface and said "secret mission". What, he couldn't notify her about Shepard's return? After their "reunion" on Horizon she found his e-mail quite fast.
And I'm still not sure about "nemesis" halo of Cerberus and "going rogue" statement.

Modifié par Rudy Lis, 14 février 2012 - 12:25 .

[TheShogunOfHarlem]

Han Shot First wrote...

SykoWolf wrote...

Shepard isn't promoted as he left alliance in ME2 to work for cerberus and as such, when he is re instated into alliance, they aint gunna promote him, even if he did stop collectors. As for ME1 promotion for stopping saren and doing all those N7 missions, they didn't get around to promoting him as he was out fighting geth, they never had the chance to promote him.

What doesn't make sense 'in universe,' is that Shepard wasn't posthumously promototed to Captain. Posthumous promotions are not unheard of it for war heroes who are killed in action, and Shepard certainly earned it during the Battle of the Citadel. Hell, he earned it when the Normandy was destroyed as well. He (or she) was absolutely heroic in getting every suriving member of the crew of the Normandy first, and went down with his own ship because of it. 

The 'out of universe' explanation of course is that 'Commander Shepard' has become too iconic, that they developers didn't want to promote him. He didn't get promoted for the same reason that Master Chief doesn't get an officer's commission.

Agreed. Posthumous promotions are very common even today for extreme acts of valor and selflessness. I'm kind of surprised that at least between ME1 and ME2 Shepard has never been considered for promotion or any high honor (the ME equivalent to a MOH or VC etc.) since High military awards often come with promotions. Look at Medal of Honor or Cross recipients they almost always get promoted. Living or posthumous.

I have a feeling that a lack of promotion for Shepard may have to do with politics much like the case IRL when some soldiers/Marines/etc. aren't recognized for valor. That's my two cents... 

[Gabey5]

Alright guys an easy solution is to make Shepard a Grand Admiral,, everyone is happy

Ashley and Kaiden can be made Fleet Admirals under Shepard

Joker can be a Captain

Tali and Thane will also be allowed to be Ensigns

jack and Krogan can be Gunnery sergeants

All under fifth fleet

[Gabey5]

TheShogunOfHarlem wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

SykoWolf wrote...

Shepard isn't promoted as he left alliance in ME2 to work for cerberus and as such, when he is re instated into alliance, they aint gunna promote him, even if he did stop collectors. As for ME1 promotion for stopping saren and doing all those N7 missions, they didn't get around to promoting him as he was out fighting geth, they never had the chance to promote him.

What doesn't make sense 'in universe,' is that Shepard wasn't posthumously promototed to Captain. Posthumous promotions are not unheard of it for war heroes who are killed in action, and Shepard certainly earned it during the Battle of the Citadel. Hell, he earned it when the Normandy was destroyed as well. He (or she) was absolutely heroic in getting every suriving member of the crew of the Normandy first, and went down with his own ship because of it. 

The 'out of universe' explanation of course is that 'Commander Shepard' has become too iconic, that they developers didn't want to promote him. He didn't get promoted for the same reason that Master Chief doesn't get an officer's commission.

Agreed. Posthumous promotions are very common even today for extreme acts of valor and selflessness. I'm kind of surprised that at least between ME1 and ME2 Shepard has never been considered for promotion or any high honor (the ME equivalent to a MOH or VC etc.) since High military awards often come with promotions. Look at Medal of Honor or Cross recipients they almost always get promoted. Living or posthumous.

I have a feeling that a lack of promotion for Shepard may have to do with politics much like the case IRL when some soldiers/Marines/etc. aren't recognized for valor. That's my two cents... 

His Spacer mother was offered an Admiralty in recognition of her son, but she turned it down

that is atleast something

[Yakko77]

George Armstrong Custer was admitted to West Point in 1858 where he finished bottom in his class. During the Civil War he distinguished himself in battle so well that he was granted the temporary (brevet) rank of Major General.

I'm assuming that the VS did something of significant military importance in between running into Shepard on Horizon and meeting Shepard on Earth prior to the events of the ME3 demo.

Modifié par Yakko77, 14 février 2012 - 01:30 .

[Patchwork]

Can't help but think the Alliance just found a different way to screw over the Williams family. Receiving officer training then jumping four ranks into a command position is a joke, how many soliders would take her or her orders seriously?

[izmirtheastarach]

There's a sci-fi series of books I enjoy where a Commander fights his ship to the last, ejects in an escape pod, and is stuck in suspended animation for 100 years. When he wakes up, he's on the Flagship of a fleet of warships who lose all their flag officers to treachery, and having been promoted posthumously to Captain, finds himself the senior officer in the fleet.

Seems like Shepard would have netted at least a grade or two posthumously.

[Alikain]

I had to check before posting anything. you all should go back and play ME1. during the character creation its states that Shepard is CDR just like in ME3 so my guess is he/she have always been staff commander since their are no shot form for staff commander. so Shepard did not get promoted as people think and Kaiden still out rank him/her but Shepard out rank Ashley who is LCDR.

[incinerator950]

Ser Bard wrote...

Can't help but think the Alliance just found a different way to screw over the Williams family. Receiving officer training then jumping four ranks into a command position is a joke, how many soliders would take her or her orders seriously?

With her uniform being a custom Spectre uniform, or her Armor being outsid regs, that would get a lot of mixed results.  You could still get enlisted and junior Officers who resent her incredible gap of promotions.  There would also be the old guard who remembers her for her Grandfather.  However I'm sure a lot of people will be apathetic, or mainly because the Alliance's CoC is about to ge gutted after the attack.  I don't expect her to take that much of a direct command.

[izmirtheastarach]

Alikain wrote...

I had to check before posting anything. you all should go back and play ME1. during the character creation its states that Shepard is CDR just like in ME3 so my guess is he/she have always been staff commander since their are no shot form for staff commander. so Shepard did not get promoted as people think and Kaiden still out rank him/her but Shepard out rank Ashley who is LCDR.

Both in the codex, the game itself, promo materials, the wiki, and the ME wikipedia article, Shepard is referred to as a Lieutenant Commander. You are technically correct that if you choose the default Sheploo character, he is identified as CDR. John Shepard. Makes me wonder if the listing in ME3 is intended to be the same rank. Perhaps that's how the Alliance abreviates LT Commander. Since the next rank up is Staff Commander.

Does anyone see a reason why Shepard could not have been promoted to Staff Commander after the Battle of the Citadel? The mentions of his rank in the codex are the same ones as on ME1, and refer to past events.

Shep is not really serving in the military duing ME2. Is there any mention of him being a LT Commander?

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 14 février 2012 - 03:38 .

[Rudy Lis]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Both in the codex, the game itself, promo materials, the wiki, and the ME wikipedia article, Shepard is referred to as a Lieutenant Commander. You are technically correct that if you choose the default Sheploo character, he is identified as CDR. John Shepard. Makes me wonder if the listing in ME3 is intended to be the same rank. Perhaps that's how the Alliance abreviates LT Commander. Since the next rank up is Staff Commander.

It's been said, multiple times, if I recall correctly, that in modern armies it is allowed to refer to all lieutenants as "lieutenant", without specifying his rank, to all sergeants as sergeant, lieutenant-colonel and colonel as colonel, all generals as general. "Precise" rank can be used mostly as "punitive" measure, if ordered by superior, you referring to, or as "showing some respect" (or "respect" usually), if this is subordinate initiative. So I suppose that Ash would be called only as "l-i-e-u-t-e-n-a-n-t-c-o-m-m-a-n-d-e-r", with perfectly separated and pronounced letters.

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Does anyone see a reason why Shepard could not have been promoted to Staff Commander after the Battle of the Citadel? The mentions of his rank in the codex are the same ones as on ME1, and refer to past events.

Technically he died in two weeks after battle, IIRC.
We have no idea when he was promoted to Lt-Cdr in first place (maybe it was right before transferring to Normandy) or whether he declined his promotion or relay it to someone (indirectly, of course) who died during ME1 events.

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Shep is not really serving in the military duing ME2. Is there any mention of him being a LT Commander?

Since I never dealt with those who died and than suddenly appears as living person I can only recall situations when dealing with retirees. Usually, if person is respected, yet no longer serving, his rank can be used as sign of respect. In ME2 many people refer to him as "Commander", probably because they think, that calling him by his name is rather personal (though here we use names (first names, for you Yankees), not surnames (second names); using surname is considered "less friendly", in most cases) and since they have no idea how to call him otherwise, they use his rank. Plus, technically, he IS commander, since he commands that ship and those people on board. Here "commander" is not rank, nor duty, rather indication that someone commands something. Not sure about situation in English speaking countries, but here is a lot of people who can correct me on that.

One specific reference I remember, is arrival to quarian flotilla, when "welcoming party" call Shepard as "Captain" and Shepard says that he never reached rank of Captain and technically he is no longer Alliance. So if "commander" has same uses in English as it does here, I suppose that "reference" can and will be used in future, regardless of his rank, even if he get his promotion. But something tells me that he send that promotion high and far, even if it comes from Hackett.

[Prom001]

Hope we Get more info when The Game comes Out.

[Rudy Lis]

Prom001 wrote...

Hope we Get more info when The Game comes Out.

Like what? Ashley tell Shepard "ow, they finally decided to stop oppressing my family and now I'm Korvettenkapitän just like you"?

[Oblivious]

TheShogunOfHarlem wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

SykoWolf wrote...

Shepard isn't promoted as he left alliance in ME2 to work for cerberus and as such, when he is re instated into alliance, they aint gunna promote him, even if he did stop collectors. As for ME1 promotion for stopping saren and doing all those N7 missions, they didn't get around to promoting him as he was out fighting geth, they never had the chance to promote him.

What doesn't make sense 'in universe,' is that Shepard wasn't posthumously promototed to Captain. Posthumous promotions are not unheard of it for war heroes who are killed in action, and Shepard certainly earned it during the Battle of the Citadel. Hell, he earned it when the Normandy was destroyed as well. He (or she) was absolutely heroic in getting every suriving member of the crew of the Normandy first, and went down with his own ship because of it. 

The 'out of universe' explanation of course is that 'Commander Shepard' has become too iconic, that they developers didn't want to promote him. He didn't get promoted for the same reason that Master Chief doesn't get an officer's commission.

Agreed. Posthumous promotions are very common even today for extreme acts of valor and selflessness. I'm kind of surprised that at least between ME1 and ME2 Shepard has never been considered for promotion or any high honor (the ME equivalent to a MOH or VC etc.) since High military awards often come with promotions. Look at Medal of Honor or Cross recipients they almost always get promoted. Living or posthumous.

I have a feeling that a lack of promotion for Shepard may have to do with politics much like the case IRL when some soldiers/Marines/etc. aren't recognized for valor. That's my two cents... 

He did get the Medal of Honor. It's in the Captain's Quarters of the SR-2 :innocent:

In the USMC OCS is 10-weeks of basic selection, 6 months of education, and a few more weeks of job training with the infantry being reserved for the best and brightest officers. Ashley completes all that in under 6 months and has time to get promoted 4 ranks and be instated as a Spectre? Over-achiever much.

[izmirtheastarach]

Having just heard Ashley's codex entry, I can confirm that her rank is retconned. She was apparently promoted to LT Commander after the Battle of the Citadel (as if that makes any sense).

[incinerator950]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Having just heard Ashley's codex entry, I can confirm that her rank is retconned. She was apparently promoted to LT Commander after the Battle of the Citadel (as if that makes any sense).

That...doesn't make sense if the game says Gunnery Chief, and then says Operations chief two years later.

Also @Rudy, the captain thing goes for being the skipper of a vessel.  In nava terms he would be the ships Captain (we all know this), but he's below the rank of Captain.

The demo just says CDR. so I don't know if they retconned him to a Staff Commander, or if they're ignoring everything and just keep saying Commander.

[didymos1120]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Having just heard Ashley's codex entry, I can confirm that her rank is retconned. She was apparently promoted to LT Commander after the Battle of the Citadel (as if that makes any sense).

I still don't understand why they didn't just make her a lieutenant.  

[Joel2211]

Shepard has been out of the game for two years when he died and then was working for Cerberus, went to captains mast and then was stripped of pretty much everything, so I understand why he was not promoted yet. the alliance had no reason to promote him. I didn't read any of the other pages so if someone said any of this already my fault.

[Oblivious]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Having just heard Ashley's codex entry, I can confirm that her rank is retconned. She was apparently promoted to LT Commander after the Battle of the Citadel (as if that makes any sense).

Nope, no sense. The most she can hope for is a battlefield commission and a boost to O-2 or at most O-3 due to her long service, recent exploits, and friends in high places (Admiral Anderson and Councilor Udina/Ambassador Udina and Councilor Anderson).

On another note, how'd you access her Codex entry?

[didymos1120]

incinerator950 wrote...

The demo just says CDR.

ME1 says the same thing, only it's easier to miss because the text is kinda small on higher resolutions.

[Han Shot First]

Joel2211 wrote...

Shepard has been out of the game for two years when he died and then was working for Cerberus, went to captains mast and then was stripped of pretty much everything, so I understand why he was not promoted yet. the alliance had no reason to promote him. I didn't read any of the other pages so if someone said any of this already my fault.

While this is *mostly* true, it is odd that Shepard wasn't posthumously promoted to Captain. He was the hero of the Battle of the Citadel and was killed in action shortly afterwards. A posthumous promotion would have been both routine and a 'no brainer.'

The only reason why Shepard wasn't posthumously promoted was that  the title/name combo of Commander Shepard had become too iconic. He doesn't get promoted for the same reason that Master Chief never gets a battlefield commission.

[Joel2211]

Han Shot First wrote...

Joel2211 wrote...

Shepard has been out of the game for two years when he died and then was working for Cerberus, went to captains mast and then was stripped of pretty much everything, so I understand why he was not promoted yet. the alliance had no reason to promote him. I didn't read any of the other pages so if someone said any of this already my fault.

While this is *mostly* true, it is odd that Shepard wasn't posthumously promoted to Captain. He was the hero of the Battle of the Citadel and was killed in action shortly afterwards. A posthumous promotion would have been both routine and a 'no brainer.'

The only reason why Shepard wasn't posthumously promoted was that  the title/name combo of Commander Shepard had become too iconic. He doesn't get promoted for the same reason that Master Chief never gets a battlefield commission.

I am sure the higher ups were not to happy with him working with Cerberus and then doing what he did in the arrival DLC so I don't think they would of promoted him since they probably didn't know if they could trust him still, what do you think? Others knew why and what he was doing was for the good of the universe but many didn't.

[Joel2211]

I like the fact they kept him this rank because in the end the alliance held him back from advancing and in the end he was not only right about the reapers but they are asking for his help again, maybe after all that he will be promoted to admiral of the fleet lol. It just goes to show you how the alliance was wrong all along by not trusting his actions.

[Joel2211]

Han Shot First wrote...

Joel2211 wrote...

Shepard has been out of the game for two years when he died and then was working for Cerberus, went to captains mast and then was stripped of pretty much everything, so I understand why he was not promoted yet. the alliance had no reason to promote him. I didn't read any of the other pages so if someone said any of this already my fault.

While this is *mostly* true, it is odd that Shepard wasn't posthumously promoted to Captain. He was the hero of the Battle of the Citadel and was killed in action shortly afterwards. A posthumous promotion would have been both routine and a 'no brainer.'

The only reason why Shepard wasn't posthumously promoted was that  the title/name combo of Commander Shepard had become too iconic. He doesn't get promoted for the same reason that Master Chief never gets a battlefield commission.

I re read your post and yeah you are right they should of a least promoted him but maybe it was an overlook from Bioware.