421 réponses à ce sujet

[chengthao]

ppl . . . its just a game, this isn't a military sim, its a sci-fi RPG, i know its just nit-picking but come on, just let it go

BW is no good when it comes to real-world military applications (most games aren't, even military sims get it wrong), lets just agree on that, forget about it and just play the game as it is

Modifié par chengthao, 19 février 2012 - 03:21 .

[SnapJackalPop]

makenzieshepard wrote...

The difference between the rank of Captain and the billet of Captain.  As there is  a Star Trek quote for eveything lets have O'Brien explain.

"It's an old naval tradition. Whoever's in command of a ship, regardless of rank, is referred to as 'captain.' "
"You mean if I had to take command, I would be called 'captain,' too?"
"Cadet, by the time you took command, there'd be nobody left to call you anything."

– O'Brien and Nog

This. class of ship determines actual rank of commanding officer.

This is the first topic that's prompted me to post (hello all) after keeping an eye on the forums for a while. Being in the navy myself it's always amused me.

Shepard's more a marine than a sailor yet holds a naval rank. I just imagine he went sideays to become Spec-Ops which can happen (although he is referred to as the Executive Officer a position with pretty defined responsibilties on any ship).  What's harder to swallow though is Shepard being called 'skipper' or 'commander' to his  or her face by those lower in rank. It's 'sir' or 'ma'am' Anything else would get you a pretty swift rebuke, I know I'd get one.

Modifié par SnapJackalPop, 18 février 2012 - 02:28 .

[ODST 3]

Nip-picking is my favorite weekend hobby.

[chengthao]

SnapJackalPop wrote...

makenzieshepard wrote...

The difference between the rank of Captain and the billet of Captain.  As there is  a Star Trek quote for eveything lets have O'Brien explain.

"It's an old naval tradition. Whoever's in command of a ship, regardless of rank, is referred to as 'captain.' "
"You mean if I had to take command, I would be called 'captain,' too?"
"Cadet, by the time you took command, there'd be nobody left to call you anything."

– O'Brien and Nog

This. class of ship determines actual rank of commanding officer.

This is the first topic that's prompted me to post (hello all) after keeping an eye on the forums for a while. Being in the navy myself it's always amused me.

Shepard's more a marine than a sailor yet holds a naval rank. I just imagine he went sideays to become Spec-Ops which can happen (although he is referred to as the Executive Officer a position with pretty defined responsibilties on any ship).  What's harder to swallow though is Shepard being called 'skipper' or 'commander' to his  or her face by those lower in rank. It's 'sir' or 'ma'am' Anything else would get you a pretty swift rebuke, I know I'd get one.

Hoyahh Shipmate (fellow Sailor myself)

i don't think Shepards a Marine though, s/he doesn't care that ppl call him/her soldier so i doubt s/he is an actual Marine (maybe just associates with them?)

and s/he is a CDR so i can understand calling him/her CDR, that is his/her rank even if s/he is a ship's CO, Skipper . . . . i don't think Ashley is "that low of a rank", so maybe she gets a pass, plus the Normandy seems like a very small ship (even tho it is a frigate), small boys tend to "run differently" than say aircraft carriers

[Kingthlayer]

Comparing US military rankings to a game made by Canadians in the first place, doesn't make a lot of sense. Not including the fact that Mass Effect is fantasy not real life.

[Sweet Dirge]

I'm just annoyed at video games in general that seem to think NCOs are lesser leaders than officers.

[Fleenots]

At that rhythm, the one that survived virmire will get to be admiral before they reach 30. LOL
it is picky but he has a point, it is weird that someone gets from lieutenant commander to major in a couple of years. Unless you are in war and the structure of command above of bought it some where in the process. Or perhaps the Alliance is heavily investing in militarization and forming new units/ships and need young people to command those. I think the worst of all was the dreadnought hovering above the city, that was ridiculous, and also the heat sinks that are still heat sinks but are now called ammo, ME3 writer were pretty sloppy there

[Yakko77]

Sweet Dirge wrote...

I'm just annoyed at video games in general that seem to think NCOs are lesser leaders than officers.

As any NCO worth his salt will often say when called "sir".

"Don't call me sir, I WORK for a living."

LOL!

[Han Shot First]

i don't think Shepards a Marine though, s/he doesn't care that ppl call him/her soldier so i doubt s/he is an actual Marine (maybe just associates with them?)

Shepard is both Navy & a Marine at the same time. The Alliance military is a bit odd in that it doesn't have seperate branches of service. The roles of a Navy, Army, and Marine Corps have all been rolled together into a single service with 'Marine' being more of the groundside occupational field within that service, rather than seperate branch. In the Alliance it seems that everyone in the Alliance Navy who has a ground combat related military occupational speciality (infantry, armor, artillery, combat engineer, ect) is probably called a Marine.

Comparing US military rankings to a game made by Canadians in the first place, doesn't make a lot of sense. Not including the fact that Mass Effect is fantasy not real life.

Dietz served in the US Navy as a Corpsman (medic), and during his time in the Navy he also served in the FMF. (Fleet Marine Force) Since the US Marine Corps doesn't have it's own medical personnel its medics are Navy Corpsmen who have gone through Field Medical Service School.

That being said, even if there were no devs on the team that had served in the US military the rank structures of all modern armies are fairly similar. Certain ranks may hav different titles in different armies, but their functions are usually similar. Despite being fictional one could look at the ranks of the Alliance and guess their responsibilities based on the rank structure of the US military. (or Canadian, if you prefer)

I'm just annoyed at video games in general that seem to think NCOs are lesser leaders than officers.

I think that is mostly because civilians without military experience have no concept of what an NCO actually is or what their responsibilities are. Not getting NCOs right isn't just limited to games. A lot of times in war movies except for the stripes the Corporals and Sergeants are indistinguishable from the Privates, when in reality they'd be leading fire teams or squads. There are some exceptions though. Band of Brothers had an excellent episode that focused soley on the company's First Sergeant for example, when you clearly see him in a leadership role.

Captain Speirs summing up the leadership of First Sgt Lipton

[incinerator950]

Imperium Alpha wrote...

Kaidan and Ashley/Shepard have the same rank in the Canadian army/navy. Major is the army equivalent of the navy Lt. Commander. BioWare as used canadian army/navy rank in both first mass effect. I don't think it has change since that.

I'm going to restrain myself.

If you read the ME 2 codex, second tier on Alliance Military and look up rank structure, the Alliance military designation goes for Lt. Commander, Staff Commander, Captain/Major.  Major is the equivilant of Captain in ME 3.  

[incinerator950]

chengthao wrote...

SnapJackalPop wrote...

makenzieshepard wrote...

The difference between the rank of Captain and the billet of Captain.  As there is  a Star Trek quote for eveything lets have O'Brien explain.

"It's an old naval tradition. Whoever's in command of a ship, regardless of rank, is referred to as 'captain.' "
"You mean if I had to take command, I would be called 'captain,' too?"
"Cadet, by the time you took command, there'd be nobody left to call you anything."

– O'Brien and Nog

This. class of ship determines actual rank of commanding officer.

This is the first topic that's prompted me to post (hello all) after keeping an eye on the forums for a while. Being in the navy myself it's always amused me.

Shepard's more a marine than a sailor yet holds a naval rank. I just imagine he went sideays to become Spec-Ops which can happen (although he is referred to as the Executive Officer a position with pretty defined responsibilties on any ship).  What's harder to swallow though is Shepard being called 'skipper' or 'commander' to his  or her face by those lower in rank. It's 'sir' or 'ma'am' Anything else would get you a pretty swift rebuke, I know I'd get one.

Hoyahh Shipmate (fellow Sailor myself)

i don't think Shepards a Marine though, s/he doesn't care that ppl call him/her soldier so i doubt s/he is an actual Marine (maybe just associates with them?)

and s/he is a CDR so i can understand calling him/her CDR, that is his/her rank even if s/he is a ship's CO, Skipper . . . . i don't think Ashley is "that low of a rank", so maybe she gets a pass, plus the Normandy seems like a very small ship (even tho it is a frigate), small boys tend to "run differently" than say aircraft carriers

You ever run into Submariners, they practically run differently then the surface.  Most of them don't have a stick up their ass about that.

[chengthao]

incinerator950 wrote...

chengthao wrote...

SnapJackalPop wrote...

makenzieshepard wrote...

The difference between the rank of Captain and the billet of Captain.  As there is  a Star Trek quote for eveything lets have O'Brien explain.

"It's an old naval tradition. Whoever's in command of a ship, regardless of rank, is referred to as 'captain.' "
"You mean if I had to take command, I would be called 'captain,' too?"
"Cadet, by the time you took command, there'd be nobody left to call you anything."

– O'Brien and Nog

This. class of ship determines actual rank of commanding officer.

This is the first topic that's prompted me to post (hello all) after keeping an eye on the forums for a while. Being in the navy myself it's always amused me.

Shepard's more a marine than a sailor yet holds a naval rank. I just imagine he went sideays to become Spec-Ops which can happen (although he is referred to as the Executive Officer a position with pretty defined responsibilties on any ship).  What's harder to swallow though is Shepard being called 'skipper' or 'commander' to his  or her face by those lower in rank. It's 'sir' or 'ma'am' Anything else would get you a pretty swift rebuke, I know I'd get one.

Hoyahh Shipmate (fellow Sailor myself)

i don't think Shepards a Marine though, s/he doesn't care that ppl call him/her soldier so i doubt s/he is an actual Marine (maybe just associates with them?)

and s/he is a CDR so i can understand calling him/her CDR, that is his/her rank even if s/he is a ship's CO, Skipper . . . . i don't think Ashley is "that low of a rank", so maybe she gets a pass, plus the Normandy seems like a very small ship (even tho it is a frigate), small boys tend to "run differently" than say aircraft carriers

You ever run into Submariners, they practically run differently then the surface.  Most of them don't have a stick up their ass about that.

yeah, most submariners i've met are real laid back, but i'm wired real different than them tho, i'm an FMF Corpsman, so "i have that stick up my ass"

[TheMachdude]

Wait wait wait... I thought Ash went from Operations Chief to 2nd LT (one promotion, via OCS or equivalent)... and Kaidan went from Staff LT to Staff Cmdr (2 promotions). That would make a Helluva lot more sense, Ash going to OCS and getting commissioned as a LT (remember she was a SNCO only a few months before ME3) and Kaidan going up two grades (not unheard of). But going from the equivalent to a sergeant major to a Lieutenant Commander in six months?

I really hope that A) the designers wouldn't make a frivolously stupid decision like that and that if they DID, that it would be the only problem the game had.

[Prom001]

Rudy Lis wrote...

Prom001 wrote...

Hope we Get more info when The Game comes Out.

Like what? Ashley tell Shepard "ow, they finally decided to stop oppressing my family and now I'm Korvettenkapitän just like you"?

[izmirtheastarach]

As we discussed in this thread earlier, it's retconned. The codex indicates that Ashley was promoted to LT Commander after the Battle of the Citadel. So...she went from Gunnery Chief to LT Commander overnight, not in 6 months.

[Prom001]

chengthao wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

chengthao wrote...

SnapJackalPop wrote...

makenzieshepard wrote...

The difference between the rank of Captain and the billet of Captain.  As there is  a Star Trek quote for eveything lets have O'Brien explain.

"It's an old naval tradition. Whoever's in command of a ship, regardless of rank, is referred to as 'captain.' "
"You mean if I had to take command, I would be called 'captain,' too?"
"Cadet, by the time you took command, there'd be nobody left to call you anything."

– O'Brien and Nog

This. class of ship determines actual rank of commanding officer.

This is the first topic that's prompted me to post (hello all) after keeping an eye on the forums for a while. Being in the navy myself it's always amused me.

Shepard's more a marine than a sailor yet holds a naval rank. I just imagine he went sideays to become Spec-Ops which can happen (although he is referred to as the Executive Officer a position with pretty defined responsibilties on any ship).  What's harder to swallow though is Shepard being called 'skipper' or 'commander' to his  or her face by those lower in rank. It's 'sir' or 'ma'am' Anything else would get you a pretty swift rebuke, I know I'd get one.

Hoyahh Shipmate (fellow Sailor myself)

i don't think Shepards a Marine though, s/he doesn't care that ppl call him/her soldier so i doubt s/he is an actual Marine (maybe just associates with them?)

and s/he is a CDR so i can understand calling him/her CDR, that is his/her rank even if s/he is a ship's CO, Skipper . . . . i don't think Ashley is "that low of a rank", so maybe she gets a pass, plus the Normandy seems like a very small ship (even tho it is a frigate), small boys tend to "run differently" than say aircraft carriers

You ever run into Submariners, they practically run differently then the surface.  Most of them don't have a stick up their ass about that.

yeah, most submariners i've met are real laid back, but i'm wired real different than them tho, i'm an FMF Corpsman, so "i have that stick up my ass"

As a guy from an landlocked country in central europe.

is it true that the people from Naval Reactors are like gods?

[GIJooTheWarHero]

[quote]Prom001 wrote...

[quote]chengthao wrote...

[quote]incinerator950 wrote...

[quote]chengthao wrote...

[quote]SnapJackalPop wrote...

[quote]makenzieshepard wrote...

The difference between the rank of Captain and the billet of Captain.  As there is  a Star Trek quote for eveything lets have O'Brien explain.

"It's an old naval tradition. Whoever's in command of a ship, regardless of rank, is referred to as 'captain.' "
"You mean if I had to take command, I would be called 'captain,' too?"
"Cadet, by the time you took command, there'd be nobody left to call you anything."

– O'Brien and Nog
[/quote]

This. class of ship determines actual rank of commanding officer.

This is the first topic that's prompted me to post (hello all) after keeping an eye on the forums for a while. Being in the navy myself it's always amused me.

Shepard's more a marine than a sailor yet holds a naval rank. I just imagine he went sideays to become Spec-Ops which can happen (although he is referred to as the Executive Officer a position with pretty defined responsibilties on any ship).  What's harder to swallow though is Shepard being called 'skipper' or 'commander' to his  or her face by those lower in rank. It's 'sir' or 'ma'am' Anything else would get you a pretty swift rebuke, I know I'd get one.

[/quote]

Hoyahh Shipmate (fellow Sailor myself)

i don't think Shepards a Marine though, s/he doesn't care that ppl call him/her soldier so i doubt s/he is an actual Marine (maybe just associates with them?)

and s/he is a CDR so i can understand calling him/her CDR, that is his/her rank even if s/he is a ship's CO, Skipper . . . . i don't think Ashley is "that low of a rank", so maybe she gets a pass, plus the Normandy seems like a very small ship (even tho it is a frigate), small boys tend to "run differently" than say aircraft carriers[/quote]
 [/quote]

Shepard does call himself a marine once in ME1. At least once, I think. Either way, the marines in Mass Effect are different than the Marines in the real world. Marine and soldier are interchangable terms in the game since there is no longer an army. Technically it's just a navy and thats it. The Alliance Navy has an "air force" of fighter squadrons and an "army" of ground forces that refer to themselves as marines out of tradition of seafaring warriors of the original Continental Marines in the late 1700s.

[Reever]

About Ashley: You have to remember (at least I think I do) that she didn´t have the rank she was supposed to have, due to her being a "Williams". Maybe that´s why she got that big promotion over the years - she only got where she would have been without all the bias + the promotion she would normally get...

That would be at least one attempt to justify this....

[chengthao]

Prom001 wrote...

chengthao wrote...

yeah, most submariners i've met are real laid back, but i'm wired real different than them tho, i'm an FMF Corpsman, so "i have that stick up my ass"

As a guy from an landlocked country in central europe.

is it true that the people from Naval Reactors are like gods?

ummm . . . not really . . . we make fun of them b/c they're usually really, really smart . . . . when ppl overthink things, we always say "don't nuke it", refering to "nukes" (sailors who work on Nuclear reactors) . . . . but we also have high respect for them b/c of their intelligence and b/c they do work with nuclear reactors

[Prom001]

chengthao wrote...

Prom001 wrote...

chengthao wrote...

yeah, most submariners i've met are real laid back, but i'm wired real different than them tho, i'm an FMF Corpsman, so "i have that stick up my ass"

As a guy from an landlocked country in central europe.

is it true that the people from Naval Reactors are like gods?

ummm . . . not really . . . we make fun of them b/c they're usually really, really smart . . . . when ppl overthink things, we always say "don't nuke it", refering to "nukes" (sailors who work on Nuclear reactors) . . . . but we also have high respect for them b/c of their intelligence and b/c they do work with nuclear reactors

What i mean was is it true that they are kind of outside the rank structure.

like say a LT from nukes can say to a CSG ADM: no sir your ship is not sailing.

[Lightweight Nate]

I'm pretty sure their exemplary records are what netted them those promotions. Saving the entire galaxy tends to grab attention.