atheelogos wrote...
yep ur right. just checked. @OP I don't see how this matters though? If anyone should get a fast promotion its Ash and Kaiden.
Prom001 wrote...
How long does a academy where an NCO gets a commission as an officer take?
Modifié par Han Shot First, 12 février 2012 - 09:40 .
izmirtheastarach wrote...
Call it nitpicking all you want, but the rank structure has always been dumb. Why they could not have just stuck with the US model, I have no idea.
Han Shot First wrote...
Ashley most likely got a field promotion to LT.
incinerator950 wrote...
Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...
Ash/Kaiden proved they can survive in impossible situations... like a Spectre candidate. The least they could do is promote them to a level indicative of that.
Which Shepard didn't even get a promotion to Staff Commander?
izmirtheastarach wrote...
atheelogos wrote...
yep ur right. just checked. @OP I don't see how this matters though? If anyone should get a fast promotion its Ash and Kaiden.
When we last see Ash in ME2, she is an Operations Chief. ME3 is not much later, and yet she has become an officer and risen four ranks.
ElitePinecone wrote...
izmirtheastarach wrote...
Call it nitpicking all you want, but the rank structure has always been dumb. Why they could not have just stuck with the US model, I have no idea.
Because the Alliance military isn't the US military.
A space navy isn't the same as the US division of forces.
It's not that hard to understand.
Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 12 février 2012 - 09:43 .
paul165 wrote...
I tend to agree with this Alenko can be kind of hand waved going from Staff Lt to Major in ~3 years is incredible but possible - albeit incredibly unlikely.
For contrast Shepard enlisted at 18 so it took them ~ a decade to go 4 ranks (2nd Lt - Lt Commander) depending of course on how long officer training is. Even assuming a 4 year course though still means Alenko is promoted twice as fast as Shepard.
Note that Shepard's speed of promotion tallies quite well with Anderson's who was a XO at 28.
Williams on the other hand is immersion breaking she went from a mid rank NCO to a mid rank officer in the same period. We also know that she was still an NCO on Horizon so somehow she went from operations chief to Lt. Commander in what a year? Year and a half?
Given she had to attend OCS that means she has had maybe a year as an officer which means I could maybe see her as a, so new it squeaks, 1st Lt but not a commander.
Han Shot First wrote...
Prom001 wrote...
How long does a academy where an NCO gets a commission as an officer take?
NCOs don't usually get officer's commissions. In the military you have enlisted personnel and officers, and they each have their own rank structure. Without getting an officers commision the highest rank an enlisted person can achieve is Sergeant Major (Marines or Army) or Master Chief. (Navy)
Technically Sergeants Major and Master Chiefs are outranked by Lieutenants and Ensigns, the lowest ranking officers. But in practice a green Lt or Ensign doesn't have anywhere near the level of authority or respect of a Sgt Major or Master Chief, so it is a little complicated. By virtue of their experience no one fvcks with a Sgt Major or a Master Chief, and they have the same command presence as Colonels, Generals and Admirals.
There are two ways that an NCO can go about getting an officer's commission. The first is through applying to an enlisted commissioning program, where the applicant would have to be college educated and have an exemplary record while enlisted, and convince his command to sign off on it. If he gets approved he'd then go to the same officer candidate school as recent college graduates with no military experience. There wouldn't be a seperate school for NCOs. The second would be a battlefield promotion, which is much less common. Basically an enlisted person displays heroics & leadership ability in a combat situation, gets noticed by higher ups that think he would make good officer materiel, and is meritoriously promoted to LT without going to officer candidate school.
We don't know how exactly the whole system of promotion works in the Alliance, but is probably not too far off from that.
Ashley most likely got a field promotion to LT.
izmirtheastarach wrote...
Han Shot First wrote...
Ashley most likely got a field promotion to LT.
And all this would make a lot more sense if she had gotten it after the Battle of the Citadel. Because there is, at most a year between ME2 and ME3. A meteoric rise does not do it justice.
Prom001 wrote...
Han Shot First wrote...
Prom001 wrote...
How long does a academy where an NCO gets a commission as an officer take?
NCOs don't usually get officer's commissions. In the military you have enlisted personnel and officers, and they each have their own rank structure. Without getting an officers commision the highest rank an enlisted person can achieve is Sergeant Major (Marines or Army) or Master Chief. (Navy)
Technically Sergeants Major and Master Chiefs are outranked by Lieutenants and Ensigns, the lowest ranking officers. But in practice a green Lt or Ensign doesn't have anywhere near the level of authority or respect of a Sgt Major or Master Chief, so it is a little complicated. By virtue of their experience no one fvcks with a Sgt Major or a Master Chief, and they have the same command presence as Colonels, Generals and Admirals.
There are two ways that an NCO can go about getting an officer's commission. The first is through applying to an enlisted commissioning program, where the applicant would have to be college educated and have an exemplary record while enlisted, and convince his command to sign off on it. If he gets approved he'd then go to the same officer candidate school as recent college graduates with no military experience. There wouldn't be a seperate school for NCOs. The second would be a battlefield promotion, which is much less common. Basically an enlisted person displays heroics & leadership ability in a combat situation, gets noticed by higher ups that think he would make good officer materiel, and is meritoriously promoted to LT without going to officer candidate school.
We don't know how exactly the whole system of promotion works in the Alliance, but is probably not too far off from that.
Ashley most likely got a field promotion to LT.
Yes but here is the things she was still an NCO in ME2 and six months later she is an Lt Cdr.
Somebody said that because of her being special ops it could go faster.
paul165 wrote...
I tend to agree with this Alenko can be kind of hand waved going from Staff Lt to Major in ~3 years is incredible but possible - albeit incredibly unlikely.
For contrast Shepard enlisted at 18 so it took them ~ a decade to go 4 ranks (2nd Lt - Lt Commander) depending of course on how long officer training is. Even assuming a 4 year course though still means Alenko is promoted twice as fast as Shepard.
Note that Shepard's speed of promotion tallies quite well with Anderson's who was a XO at 28.
Williams on the other hand is immersion breaking she went from a mid rank NCO to a mid rank officer in the same period. We also know that she was still an NCO on Horizon so somehow she went from operations chief to Lt. Commander in what a year? Year and a half?
Given she had to attend OCS that means she has had maybe a year as an officer which means I could maybe see her as a, so new it squeaks, 1st Lt but not a commander.
izmirtheastarach wrote...
ElitePinecone wrote...
izmirtheastarach wrote...
Call it nitpicking all you want, but the rank structure has always been dumb. Why they could not have just stuck with the US model, I have no idea.
Because the Alliance military isn't the US military.
A space navy isn't the same as the US division of forces.
It's not that hard to understand.
So instead of using a framework that already exists, they randomly cobble together one that doesn't make sense? It's a little hard to understand.
ElitePinecone wrote...
It makes perfect sense if you look at the codex.
The Alliance navy has one command structure for all forces, because Marines would never fight without the ships, and vice versa. Marines are just a specialised part of the navy, and their NCO ranks merge into the ship-based ones.
I understand the promotions are screwy, but nobody should be looking at the US military for any inspiration.
(More to the point: why on earth would a multinational organisation like the Alliance use US ranks? They already have a 'Parliament', so we know the American influence isn't strong.)
Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 12 février 2012 - 09:53 .
GIJooTheWarHero wrote...
paul165 wrote...
I tend to agree with this Alenko can be kind of hand waved going from Staff Lt to Major in ~3 years is incredible but possible - albeit incredibly unlikely.
For contrast Shepard enlisted at 18 so it took them ~ a decade to go 4 ranks (2nd Lt - Lt Commander) depending of course on how long officer training is. Even assuming a 4 year course though still means Alenko is promoted twice as fast as Shepard.
Note that Shepard's speed of promotion tallies quite well with Anderson's who was a XO at 28.
Williams on the other hand is immersion breaking she went from a mid rank NCO to a mid rank officer in the same period. We also know that she was still an NCO on Horizon so somehow she went from operations chief to Lt. Commander in what a year? Year and a half?
Given she had to attend OCS that means she has had maybe a year as an officer which means I could maybe see her as a, so new it squeaks, 1st Lt but not a commander.
Shepard was an enlisted Marine when he first joined. So...that kind of puts a damper on your inital theory.
Prom001 wrote...
Yes but here is the things she was still an NCO in ME2 and six months later she is an Lt Cdr.
Somebody said that because of her being special ops it could go faster.
Prom001 wrote...
that too doesnt make sense...
izmirtheastarach wrote...
ElitePinecone wrote...
It makes perfect sense if you look at the codex.
The Alliance navy has one command structure for all forces, because Marines would never fight without the ships, and vice versa. Marines are just a specialised part of the navy, and their NCO ranks merge into the ship-based ones.
I understand the promotions are screwy, but nobody should be looking at the US military for any inspiration.
(More to the point: why on earth would a multinational organisation like the Alliance use US ranks? They already have a 'Parliament', so we know the American influence isn't strong.)
How about British ranks? Whatever. You have a different opinion. That's fine. I don't agree. And that's not what the thread is really about anyways.
ElitePinecone wrote...
From the leaked beta's codex:
"After earning numerous commendations early in her career, Williams became a platoon guide on Eden Prime, where she was the only member of her unit to survive the geth attack.
Williams then served as gunnery chief under Commander Shepard on the SSV Normandy and was promoted to lieutenant commander after the Battle of the Citadel. More recently, an Alliance tribunal called on Williams to testify about her experience with the Reapers."
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