370 réponses à ce sujet

[King Minos]

BiO_MaN wrote...

King Minos wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

King Minos wrote...

How is it odd? It's more odd that people cry over watching a child who no-one knows or cares about getting destroyed. It's just a child fictional child.

The child is on the screen for what? 5 minutes, maybe less and you already created a connection to the child?

Me, personally? No. I thought it was well-handled for what it was, but didn't have me bawling.

I still find your astonishment that anyone can cry over a game to be stranger. Is crying at that particular scene a bit extreme? Maybe. But your claim casts a much wider net, by implying that no game, no matter the length, can create a connection between player and character. To the point where I'm curious about whether you apply the same principle to films and novels.

I watch films, read novels and play games for the story, not to create a connection, i could not care less if anyone dies in a fictional universe. If i can stop my favourite character from dying then yeah i would, if i can't then at the most, i would be highly annoyed.

If Garrus or Tali died in the final mission in ME2, i would be annoyed, but i won't cry. I will just restart, hoping i can save them.

The fact that you want them to survive means you've created a connection which goes against your statement.

The fact that you do NOT want to admit it, however, is wrong.

I don't feel sad if they died. Just annoyed.

So, i would not call that a connection.

Modifié par King Minos, 12 février 2012 - 04:07 .

[LilyasAvalon]

AlexXIV wrote...

This kinds of reminds me.

250.000 people died in the civil war in Somalia. - no reaction
*show a scene where a mom carries her dead child* - Oh my god, how horrible!

I find it kind of weird that people need pictures to start thinking. It's almost the same with 9/11. It was really bad and I don't want to downplay it. But it was the most dramatic thing ever after the media put it in the right light. Millions of people died violently in the years before and after and nobody even as much as notices.

A few months ago, there was a young puppy that had been thrown from a 3 story building by his drunk owner. The dog survived and was put into police care while his owner was charged for the crime. Hundreds of people rang them up and offered to adopt him. When I heard about that, I just thought about all the other animals in the shelter that have come from just as bad if not worse situations as that puppy.

Humans are quite hypocritical creatures, I'm not going to lie about that. For me, seeing that child get zapped hit home. It's one thing to see soliders or criminals die, which is what we've seen mostly so far. It's another to see an innocent civilian get killed.

If it makes you feel any better, it just gave me more of a reason to want to skin a reaper alive.

[Biotic Sage]

King Minos wrote...

How is it odd? It's more odd that people cry over watching a child who no-one knows or cares about getting destroyed. It's just a child fictional child.

The child is on the screen for what? 5 minutes, maybe less and you already created a connection to the child?

The child dying is an emotional scene not because of the child's death in and of itself.  Notice how the camera immediately goes to a closeup of Shepard's face.  We see Shepard's reaction, a pained expression and a helpless gesture.  He looks away because his initial reaction is he doesn't want it to be true; despite all of his efforts, all of his sacrifices, the Reapers still came and they still took innocents' lives.  But he slowly looks back because it's Shepard; he is a soldier and he accepts it and pushes forward. 

Shepard has seen so much sh*t, how can you not be moved by that scene, especially with the extra-diegetic music perfectly complimenting the emotive response?  Could it possibly be because of your bias against the game, because ME3 has a sour connotation for you since you are against decisions the devs have made?  Or could it possibly be from your personal life or you not being in a state of mind where you can experience catharsis?  These are the only things I can think of.

Modifié par Biotic Sage, 12 février 2012 - 04:09 .

[ashwind]

Kronner wrote...

I thought it was stupid.

Evidentally the game is made for humans not Krogan Vanguards 

[Chuvvy]

It felt very forced to me. Anyway, I don't really expect much in the way of emotion from bioware, nothing they've done has made me particularly emotional.

[CerberusSoldier]

If they have to use death as way to get emotion then video game story telling does suck ass when there is other ways to do that

[Il Divo]

King Minos wrote...

I don't feel sad if they died. Just annoyed.

So, i would not call that a connection.

I'm inclined to disagree. It may not be as strong of a connection, but a connection it remains. Otherwise, you would not have felt annoyance period.

Modifié par Il Divo, 12 février 2012 - 04:11 .

[LilyasAvalon]

Biotic Sage wrote...

King Minos wrote...

How is it odd? It's more odd that people cry over watching a child who no-one knows or cares about getting destroyed. It's just a child fictional child.

The child is on the screen for what? 5 minutes, maybe less and you already created a connection to the child?

The child dying is an emotional scene not because of the child's death in and of itself.  Notice how the camera immediately goes to a closeup of Shepard's face.  We see Shepard's reaction, a pained expression and a helpless gesture.  He looks away because his initial reaction is he doesn't want it to be true; despite all of his efforts, all of his sacrifices, the Reapers still came and they still took innocents' lives.  But he slowly looks back because it's Shepard; he is a soldier and he accepts it and pushes forward. 

Shepard has seen so much sh*t, how can you not be moved by that scene, especially with the extra-diegetic music perfectly complimenting the emotive response?  Could it possibly be because of your bias against the game, because ME3 has a sour connotation for you since you are against decisions the devs have made?  Or could it possibly be from your personal life or you not being in a state of mind where you can experience catharsis?  These are the only things I can think of.

+10

As nearly every male in my family can tell you. You never get used to seeing the sight of a dead civilian.

[King Minos]

Biotic Sage wrote...

King Minos wrote...

How is it odd? It's more odd that people cry over watching a child who no-one knows or cares about getting destroyed. It's just a child fictional child.

The child is on the screen for what? 5 minutes, maybe less and you already created a connection to the child?

The child dying is an emotional scene not because of the child's death in and of itself.  Notice how the camera immediately goes to a closeup of Shepard's face.  We see Shepard's reaction, a pained expression and a helpless gesture.  He looks away because his initial reaction is he doesn't want it to be true; despite all of his efforts, all of his sacrifices, the Reapers still came and they still took innocents' lives.  But he slowly looks back because it's Shepard; he is a soldier and he accepts it and pushes forward. 

Shepard has seen so much sh*t, how can you not be moved by that scene, especially with the extra-diegetic music perfectly complimenting the emotive response?  Could it possibly be because of your bias against the game, because ME3 has a sour connotation for you since you are against decisions the devs have made?  Or could it possibly be from your personal life or you not being in a state of mind where you can experience catharsis?  These are the only things I can think of.

It's far from my sour connotation.

I just really could not give a damn watching a fictional child being blown up.

I pick catharsis.

[King Minos]

Il Divo wrote...

King Minos wrote...

I don't feel sad if they died. Just annoyed.

So, i would not call that a connection.

I'm inclined to disagree. It may not be as strong of a connection, but a connection it remains. Otherwise, you would not have felt annoyance period.

It's just a fictional character, trust me, I don't care about Garrus or Tali, I like Garrus and yeah I would be annoyed if he died but I would be over it in a matter of seconds and continue with my game like nothing happened.

Why is everyone asking me questions?

Modifié par King Minos, 12 février 2012 - 04:17 .

[AlexXIV]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

This kinds of reminds me.

250.000 people died in the civil war in Somalia. - no reaction
*show a scene where a mom carries her dead child* - Oh my god, how horrible!

I find it kind of weird that people need pictures to start thinking. It's almost the same with 9/11. It was really bad and I don't want to downplay it. But it was the most dramatic thing ever after the media put it in the right light. Millions of people died violently in the years before and after and nobody even as much as notices.

A few months ago, there was a young puppy that had been thrown from a 3 story building by his drunk owner. The dog survived and was put into police care while his owner was charged for the crime. Hundreds of people rang them up and offered to adopt him. When I heard about that, I just thought about all the other animals in the shelter that have come from just as bad if not worse situations as that puppy.

Humans are quite hypocritical creatures, I'm not going to lie about that. For me, seeing that child get zapped hit home. It's one thing to see soliders or criminals die, which is what we've seen mostly so far. It's another to see an innocent civilian get killed.

If it makes you feel any better, it just gave me more of a reason to want to skin a reaper alive.

Well yeah I am not above this kind of hypocrisy either. Happy skinning!

[string3r]

It's nice to see Shepard show some ACTUAL emotion for once.

Why couldn't we get that on the Suicide mission? It's like he didn't even care when Garrus died.

[BiO]

King Minos wrote...

You almost cried?

King Minos wrote...

Yeah.

I don't understand how people get upset over games.

King Minos wrote...

Mass Effect just sucks at emotion. I still don't see how people cry over games. Then again, i have not cried in a long time, nearly did when Ash Ketchum got turned to stone in the first movie but i was 8 then.

[LilyasAvalon]

...Would that do any good though? I mean, reapers feel anything? ._.

[Kronner]

Biotic Sage wrote...

The child dying is an emotional scene not because of the child's death in and of itself.  Notice how the camera immediately goes to a closeup of Shepard's face.  We see Shepard's reaction, a pained expression and a helpless gesture.  He looks away because his initial reaction is he doesn't want it to be true; despite all of his efforts, all of his sacrifices, the Reapers still came and they still took innocents' lives.  But he slowly looks back because it's Shepard; he is a soldier and he accepts it and pushes forward. 

That is also what's wrong with that scene. Some of my Renegade Shepards would not give a damn about some kid.

[realguile]

I hope in the final release the kid charges the reaper in rage and is INCINERATED by the reaper beam. That would bring some emotion to that scene.

[King Minos]

BiO_MaN wrote...

King Minos wrote...

You almost cried?

King Minos wrote...

Yeah.

I don't understand how people get upset over games.

King Minos wrote...

Mass Effect just sucks at emotion. I still don't see how people cry over games. Then again, i have not cried in a long time, nearly did when Ash Ketchum got turned to stone in the first movie but i was 8 then.

Damn straight, i could rewind Simba's dad dying over and over without crying.

[AlexXIV]

string3r wrote...

It's nice to see Shepard show some ACTUAL emotion for once.

Why couldn't we get that on the Suicide mission? It's like he didn't even care when Garrus died.

Because Garrus didn't die.

[MACharlie1]

Am I the only one who isn't that fond of the piano music used? Don't get me wrong - it's a nice piece. It just doesn't seem to fit in. It goes from the Normandy's theme into this piano piece. It doesn't...flow I guess would be the word for it? Come si dice?

[DragonRageGT]

Come on, you can't expect everyone to have the same emotional response. We are not programmed robots. But the same people who don't feel anything on sad scenes might also pee their pants when someone puts a gun to their face... or worse, like that soldier in Henselt's camp who s**** himself. (TW2)

[Total Biscuit]

Honestly I found the child as annoying as he was ugly. I really wish I'd had the option to just ignore him or point out what an idiot he was and that frankly he got what deserved.

Adding in children, especially stupid ones that get themselves and others killed into sequels just for the cheap emotional trigger it sets of in the equally, incredibly, annoying 'children are the most important thing in anyone's life EVAH!!!' parents in the audience is one of the clichés I hate most in fiction

Really, the entire series of interaction with the little git should have been optional.

Modifié par Total Biscuit, 12 février 2012 - 04:23 .

[WizenSlinky0]

King Minos wrote...

Damn straight, i could rewind Simba's dad dying over and over without crying.

To be honest I'm not sure why that makes you proud, but to each their own.

[Biotic Sage]

King Minos wrote...

Damn straight, i could rewind Simba's dad dying over and over without crying.

What are you?  If anything I cry more and more every time I watch the Lion King.  Maybe I'm just getting softer as I get older.

Haha but honestly, emotional movement is not an objective thing.  There are universal techniques for achieving it (i.e. certain types of music, narrative paradigms, the blueprints of eliciting an emotional response if you will), but ultimately it's just as much about what the viewer brings with him to the work as what the work brings to the viewer.

So feel free to be stoic if that's what you feel.  You can focus on the boom sticks, which are also cool in ME3.

Modifié par Biotic Sage, 12 février 2012 - 04:27 .

[King Minos]

WizenSlinky0 wrote...

King Minos wrote...

Damn straight, i could rewind Simba's dad dying over and over without crying.

To be honest I'm not sure why that makes you proud, but to each their own.

I'm not, it was a joke.

I just don't cry at cheap emotional triggers such as this child getting smoked. If they can bring the emotion from Jennys death to each character and to the overall universe then that would be great.

Modifié par King Minos, 12 février 2012 - 04:26 .