2915 réponses à ce sujet

[TheRevanchist]

hah...most ironic post I've ever read...

[TheRevanchist]

Farbautisonn wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

Oh hell...I think I just learned a spoiler...not sure...if its true then....Bioware is forever lost to us...

I don't wish to know at this stage then. I already have enough concerns that have me worried about possible enjoyment can gain from this title. I think I have crossed the line into ignorance is bliss stage regarding new issues and concerns. Resolution to current ones is what I wish to focus on now.

-This.

Oh don't worry...I wouldn't dare do such a thing...I can simply hope beyonf hope at -least- that part isn't true.

[TheRevanchist]

darkness reborn wrote...

Now that think about it... the trial maybe DLC for only £30!

Don't give them anymore ideas...this From Ashes crap is bad enough as it is. But honestly at the end of the day I would just like SOMETHING to help make this opening make sense.

[TheRevanchist]

darkness reborn wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

darkness reborn wrote...

Now that think about it... the trial maybe DLC for only £30!

Don't give them anymore ideas...this From Ashes crap is bad enough as it is. But honestly at the end of the day I would just like SOMETHING to help make this opening make sense.

Would you be shocked if they did this?

Of course not, not in the slightest.

[Dragoonlordz]

darkness reborn wrote...

Now that think about it... the trial maybe DLC for only £30!

I would buy it if starts on your ship is which is where I left my Shepard and covers both his return to home (whether went quietly or forced), contents of the six months on Earth including aspects of exposition, exploration, interaction and action/combat element comprised of Cerberus assassination team trying to take you out which is due to working with Cerberus for ME2 and all you know of them you are a threat now your back in Alliance hands. The DLC would end with just prior to the start of ME3 introduction and would contain the trial element prior to this point.

Now this (may be) unpopular but for me this would be bliss and I would buy it without second thoughts. It is both quality DLC in that regard and resolves my current issue about the introduction minus one element which is the biggest one that cannot be resolved through DLC (auto dialogue being 85% of all dialogue within the demonstration shown and the concern/fear this is prominent too much in the full game of which I hope I am wrong).

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 22 février 2012 - 08:45 .

[Masked Slasher]

Still want to know how/why my renegade, Cerberus-loyal Shep gets back to earth and submits to a trial at the start of ME3.

[Rudy Lis]

Masked Slasher wrote...

Still want to know how/why my renegade, Cerberus-loyal Shep gets back to earth and submits to a trial at the start of ME3.

Likewise. But I think we all knew real reason: "Agh! Cerberus! Cerberus! Kill it! It's evil!"
Sort of.

Funny how much I missed just for couple of days absense.

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I would buy it if starts on your ship is which is where I left my Shepard and covers both his return to home (whether went quietly or forced), contents of the six months on Earth including aspects of exposition, exploration, interaction and action/combat element comprised of Cerberus assassination team trying to take you out which is due to working with Cerberus for ME2 and all you know of them you are a threat now your back in Alliance hands. The DLC would end with just prior to the start of ME3 introduction and would contain the trial element prior to this point.

Now this (may be) unpopular but for me this would be bliss and I would buy it without second thoughts. It is both quality DLC in that regard and resolves my current issue about the introduction minus one element which is the biggest one that cannot be resolved through DLC (auto dialogue being 85% of all dialogue within the demonstration shown and the concern/fear this is prominent too much in the full game of which I hope I am wrong).

I'm afraid we will never get that, friend. It really pains to see how games like Alan Wake are ported and, according to statements from developers, sales already covered all porting expenses, that's only for two days and only in Steam (more now, but I like porting; yes, checkpoint saves, but so far nothing else to blame really). Given AW developers statement regarding good singleplayer versus mediocre single and multiplayer, I think you can easily guess where my loyalties are.

Modifié par Rudy Lis, 22 février 2012 - 09:04 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Rudy Lis wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I would buy it if starts on your ship is which is where I left my Shepard and covers both his return to home (whether went quietly or forced), contents of the six months on Earth including aspects of exposition, exploration, interaction and action/combat element comprised of Cerberus assassination team trying to take you out which is due to working with Cerberus for ME2 and all you know of them you are a threat now your back in Alliance hands. The DLC would end with just prior to the start of ME3 introduction and would contain the trial element prior to this point.

Now this (may be) unpopular but for me this would be bliss and I would buy it without second thoughts. It is both quality DLC in that regard and resolves my current issue about the introduction minus one element which is the biggest one that cannot be resolved through DLC (auto dialogue being 85% of all dialogue within the demonstration shown and the concern/fear this is prominent too much in the full game of which I hope I am wrong).

I'm afraid we will never get that, friend. It really pains to see how games like Alan Wake are ported and, according to statements from developers, sales already covered all porting expenses, that's only for two days and only in Steam (more now, but I like porting; yes, checkpoint saves, but so far nothing else to blame really). Given AW developers statement regarding good singleplayer versus mediocre single and multiplayer, I think you can easily guess where my loyalties are.

I secretly acknowledge this but I am in denial. My bubble of illusion remains intact, please don't pop it. 

[Rudy Lis]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I secretly acknowledge this but I am in denial. My bubble of illusion remains intact, please don't pop it. 

My pink eyewear shuttered at concrete buttock of reality long ago. But I have no intentions to pop your bubble. I'd really like to see good story and story first in ME3 myself. Only I have no hope on that. Because hope - is first step on the road to disappointment.

[internisus]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

My point was, the trial could be a very good opportunity to familiarize the new player with these very terms and the general situation, as part of easing them in the game setting. And so i had to ask if that's something that simply didn't occur to you, or if you omitted that possibility on purpose.

It did indeed occur to me.  Ultimately, though, let me ask you this: what purpose would it actually serve to give a new player this kind of in-depth history lesson?  Is it really important at that stage in the script that they understand what a batarian is?  Or is that kind of exposition better served up later in the story, right before Shepard has to interact with some actual batarians?

I'd suggest that it could start by throwing Shepard into a less-than-heroic light.

For new players, that makes Shepard more ambiguous: an accussed genocidal war criminal who claims (and seems to be vindicated) that mass-murder was 'necessary.' For older players, it could offer a rare chance at giving them a different perspective on their own character.


As much as many people would resent having their Shepard's benevolence impugned, a you-can't-win trial would make a great and rare chance to cast doubt on any of Shepard's Big Choices. Though casting suspicion on idealism is hardly a Bioware strength, both Renegade and Paragon choices could be challenged on reasonable grounds, challenging convictions and prior rationals.


Take the Collector Base decision, for example, and tie it into the events of Arrival.

For Renegades: 'Commander Shepard not only worked with Cerberus, but gave these pro-Human terrorists advanced Collector technology. Who can be surprised at what happened next, when a Batarian solar system was destroyed? Like calls to like.'


For Paragons: 'Commander Shepard claimed to work with Cerberus against these 'Reapers', just as she claimed the threat of the Reapers necessitated genocide. But when it came down to it, she chose to destroy advanced Collector technology that could have been used against this threat she claims to be so dire. The inconsistency is obvious.'

Exactly!  Very nicely demonstrated.  This is what distressed me about the lack of a trial in the demo, which seemed to be presenting the beginning of the game.

Back when Arrival was released, the idea of putting Shepard on trial as the introduction to ME3 seemed a brilliant idea to me because it:

1) serves to set the scene, as it were, and use the reflective narrative of the trial to naturally reintroduce some of the characters and stakes within this universe to both new and old players;

2) refreshes players' memories with regard to some of the choices they have made over the last two games;

3) catches us up on the political situation both within the Alliance and in the greater context of Citadel government;

4) rebukes players for their decisions, which may surprise them with logical perspectives they never considered;

5) sets up a morally doubtful Shepard who questions his/her own judgment and character in ways ME has not done before, providing a unique emotional backdrop for the final act; and

6) creates the baseline for validation as the consequences of those retrospectively suspect decisions gradually come together throughout the game to generate a real hope for saving the galaxy.



If Arrival was just an excuse to force Shepard back to Earth so that s/he is there to experience the reaper attack, I'll be quite sad that this storytelling opportunity has been missed.

Modifié par internisus, 22 février 2012 - 09:48 .

[TheRevanchist]

Well seems like they were going to give some semblence of a hearing....which was better then what we have now...-why- this was cut I have no freakin idea...but it's disheartning.

[TheRevanchist]

Oh wait....I bet it has to do with the fact their blowing money out the ass to launch the game into freaking space! <.< No wonder they had to cut it...theres no damn money left...

[Dragoonlordz]

kylecouch wrote...

Oh wait....I bet it has to do with the fact their blowing money out the ass to launch the game into freaking space! <.< No wonder they had to cut it...theres no damn money left...

I bet you secretly till want copy to drop in your garden though don't you?  Plus pretty sure the only method they are using is normal balloons buy in corner shops to sent up however I wonder more about the tracking device supposedly using to keep track of locations.  I want one of those more than the game, tape it to a mouse and watch the blips of where it goes.

[Dragoonlordz]

DJBare pointed out something I should clear up incase any misconceptions or misunderstand what I have posted in this myself plus the amount of ranting going on about DLC on forums right now... I thought I was clearer than appear to have been on my stance with regard to this issue.

The trial for me and the longer introduction spanning more content and interaction plus exposition is just something I 'would like', would 'increase my enjoyment of the game' and a way to lower my disappointment in the lack of it's presence. As mentioned before the trial is but smaller aspect of a larger picture for me. It would be my 'preference' to have had it prior to going gold and failing that my preference for a solution meaning additional content prior to the start of the game added later stage, however in no way shape or form do I believe I am 'entitled' to it, that they "owe" me it.

I just have a personal preference that would increase my enjoyment (if) was present or available even if have to purchase via DLC at a later stage. That DLC I would hope contain vastly more than just a trial which is why in my suggestion just now to make it worth the investment so I extended it to cover from the point of when left Shepard on my ship in ME2 to arriving on Earth and content spanning six months present on Earth prior to the attack including a trial.

Now I can only speak for myself but this is the stance I have tried to take through past 80+ pages I have been present, I apologize if someone misunderstand my own position. That is why I have been specifically using words and terms like "personal preference" and more so much.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 22 février 2012 - 11:00 .

[Fasty1]

christ how long will you guys keep arguing jesus... do something else get over it the trial is not gonna be in the game gahh lee.

[Dragoonlordz]

Fasty1 wrote...

christ how long will you guys keep arguing jesus... do something else get over it the trial is not gonna be in the game gahh lee.

No one here is arguing with only few exceptions of new people coming in and stirring up trouble or baiting. 

We are in essence even if different variations of same principle, in agreement. We keep to ourselves in our little corner of the forums in a single thread so I don't understand why people feel the need to come in guns blazing at us.

[Rudy Lis]

kylecouch wrote...

Well seems like they were going to give some semblence of a hearing....which was better then what we have now...-why- this was cut I have no freakin idea...but it's disheartning.

My bets on "action". Based on impressions and assumptions that public wants untstoppable flow of action, not interfered by "meaningless" and "useless" talking and trial. Some small pause between fights is Ok, something better without aekshn is baaaad. Worse than swooping. 

IMHO that's BS. NWN2 trial was one of best scenes in entire game. Yes, long, yes, you know you can't lose anyway, yes, "investigation" system is hilarious and full of holes (CSI: Neverwinter), but that was one of best moments in entire game.

Pace is very important too - NWN (both of them) had none, NWN2 style respawn tight on top of your head (yeah, that was before DA2, about 5 years prior, especially that Ork camp was disastrous), when interesting fights turns into excessive grind - all that was annoying then, is annoying now, in DA (all three of them, to lesser extent in Awakening since it's short). It began in Baldur's Gate 2, IMHO, at latest stages of game, when most enemies got themselves Firkraag's lifebar and only turned worse in ToB. Then we blame ADnD 2.5 Edition for poorly developed levels past 16, who we put to blame now? Funny enough, IWD, especially first one, even in HoW, even with Trials of Luremaster, werent that gringing and annoying, being "action RPG" not pure RPG. And I do not base those statements on just memories, I replayed several saves from those games. Except ToB - I didn't like it then, why bother now?
If refer to some person shooter/action, I don't know, for start Alan Wake seems to be Ok, HL2E2 was probably best pased game I ever remember. LA Noire seems fine, GTAIV pace was spoiled only by "friends" and they fixed it in DLCs (btw - THAT kind of DLC I want, not some pink linens, visor and high-heels with laced lingerie for LI with erotic pin-ups for captain's chambers quarters), other than that I think ot was perfect. Witchers are good, both of them, although for my tasting I'd slightly sped up fourth chapter in W1 and slowed down two last chapters in W2, but it wasn't that irritating, Riddick, at least EfBB was good, AFAIR, maybe I should replay it to refresh memories, but cant' pinpoint something really that annoying.

OF course it's all just insomniac midnight speculating based on couple of magazines'/newspapers' articles and demo itself, maybe after first two planets game will slows down a bit, maybe to BF3 style storytelling, full of flashbacks (hey, newbies needs explanation "Who are those people are" and veterans needs explanation "WTF is going on"), don't know. But I think it's that big dark unknows is what frightens us. Because BF3 single was good for FPS, but I don't want to replay it again, that's for sure.

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Now I can only speak for myself but this is the stance I have tried to take through past 80+ pages I have been present, I apologize if someone misunderstand my own position. That is why I have been specifically using words and terms like "personal preference" and more so much.

I dunno, I thought any word any person says is his personal preference, until that very person is some "public representative" who, well, "represents" interests of larger group of people who agreed on something. But that stinks of politics too much and obviously I'm not big fan of that. But as long as you not ask to return hacking to ME3 I thing we are in agreement.
Bah, who am I cheating with - we are in agreement even if you ask to return hacking.

Dragoonlordz wrote...

No one here is arguing with only few exceptions of new people coming in and stirring up trouble or baiting.

We are in essence even if different variations of same principle, in agreement. We keep to ourselves in our little corner of the forums in a single thread so I don't understand why people feel the need to come in guns blazing at us.

Yeah, we are essentially a circle, no bad word, "anonimous trialmancers club". Subdivision of storymancers club, which in turn is subdivision of "throw your ****ing action to garbage bin" club.

Modifié par Rudy Lis, 22 février 2012 - 11:13 .

[ArkkAngel007]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Fasty1 wrote...

christ how long will you guys keep arguing jesus... do something else get over it the trial is not gonna be in the game gahh lee.

No one here is arguing with only few exceptions of new people coming in and stirring up trouble or baiting. 

We are in essence even if different variations of same principle, in agreement. We keep to ourselves in our little corner of the forums in a single thread so I don't understand why people feel the need to come in guns blazing at us.

This.  I know I've debated a few elements, but that was to keep things moving along and actually discuss why/why not the trial (if there even was one) rather than just the continuous "Hurr durr, no trial = epic fail" comments (an over-generalized example).

I myself feel that an opportunity was missed to establish some common ground for both new and veteran players.  Will it really matter to me when I play the final game?  Probably not, as long as BioWare delivers on the rest of the game and at least talks about the time between Arrival and the intro a bit more than two lines.

[Dragoonlordz]

@Rudy

I personally never have enjoyed item pack style DLC, never bought any myself. Has to be story or companion DLC's which by proxy ends up being story DLC too.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 22 février 2012 - 11:08 .

[Dragoonlordz]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Fasty1 wrote...

christ how long will you guys keep arguing jesus... do something else get over it the trial is not gonna be in the game gahh lee.

No one here is arguing with only few exceptions of new people coming in and stirring up trouble or baiting. 

We are in essence even if different variations of same principle, in agreement. We keep to ourselves in our little corner of the forums in a single thread so I don't understand why people feel the need to come in guns blazing at us.

This.  I know I've debated a few elements, but that was to keep things moving along and actually discuss why/why not the trial (if there even was one) rather than just the continuous "Hurr durr, no trial = epic fail" comments (an over-generalized example).

I myself feel that an opportunity was missed to establish some common ground for both new and veteran players.  Will it really matter to me when I play the final game?  Probably not, as long as BioWare delivers on the rest of the game and at least talks about the time between Arrival and the intro a bit more than two lines.

I too am hoping it is a bit more than the one or two lines previously mentioned. Again I think is maybe my living in a bubble of ignorance by choice but I want to imagine that when import has larger effect then it might well do regarding start of the game. I won't know this 100% for sure until have the game myself come release day but until then my bubble will remain for as long as possible. 

[Rudy Lis]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

@Rudy

I personally never have enjoyed item pack style DLC, never bought any myself. Has to be story or companion DLC's which by proxy ends up being story DLC too.

I don't know, I bought firearms pack and enjoy it fully, regardless of Bioware decision to bring all guns to ME3 or only those you purchase. I tried or seen those "silk lingerie" DLCs  at my friends, found no purpose to purchase them. Saved some money, bought old Starwars, happy since.

But if lay jokes asides (why?!), I think there are two types of DLCs - great, huge, gargantuan size, like GTA IV DLCs, adding a bloody lot story to game, not just 40 minutes-on-insanity-with-5-replays-because-of-thermal-clips-respawn-location-and-badly-working-triggers, FNV DLCs which are basically the same as GTA IV ones - if not giving you new PoV on existing story, but rather expanding it in new way or... Well, you know what kind of DLCs.

[hellsjarhead]

The trial will be released as DLC most likely

[chengthao]

hellsjarhead wrote...

The trial will be released as DLC most likely

^this