2915 réponses à ce sujet

[Rudy Lis]

kylecouch wrote...

The only time they have actually "ripped" something out is From Ashes...which is a whole different can of worms that this thread will not go into.

What with that? Some spoilers? Yes, I've seen thread, but after all those spoilers is a bit frightened to go there.

kylecouch wrote...

For the record...I played F:NV once...no DLCs...Played F3 maybe 8 times with some DLCs, loved Broken Steel for example. Fallout just isn't my thing I've noticed...don't like nuclear wasteland settings. I LUV TES though...their new DLC plan is actually bad ass...

Well, jedem das seine I suppose. At least you reasonable about your preferences.
Again I tip off my hat to you.

kylecouch wrote...

Anyway to get this back on topic before it gets locked for Off-Topicness. Besides the obvious trolls that attempt and fail to get us aggravated, I feel we have made a very presentable case, to Bioware about our disapointment. Weather they actually give a s*** or not is another issue. Given their recent attitude towards even level headed fans I would doubt they do but who knows. I don't feel we should have to pay for something thats been promised from the beginning. Especially for something that would not take up a great deal of time to create since most of the base is already constructed. Also considering Bethesda has already promised they will be giving players -free- DLC that will consist of small things from time to time in between their epic "exspansion" DLCs.

Can't say anything for bethesda due my obvious allergy or idiosyncrasy towards them.

As for rest, you could thought that for 80 bucks you at least get full game. I know, litogra "painting" is nice, patch is funny, but how does that fits digital version?  And what's most important - what it has to do with story? I wouldn't mind to pay for "Cerberus assassin" DLC, telling you possible attempt on Shepard's life, because it will allow you to a) expand story, add new point of view on it.

Wulfram wrote...

Relevant, perhaps, from Mac Walter's twitter

Q: Is Shepard under arrest at the start of the game?
A: Relieved of Duty.

https://twitter.com/...775789127929856

Valuable addition. Why not state that directly in game, clearly?
Just one string of text added to "wall" - Shepard relieved of duty.

Modifié par Rudy Lis, 23 février 2012 - 08:26 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Wulfram wrote...

Relevant, perhaps, from Mac Walter's twitter

Q: Is Shepard under arrest at the start of the game?
A: Relieved of Duty.

https://twitter.com/...775789127929856

Might be relevant to some.

Upon hearing it myself it does not make my disappointment any less of the opportunity I believe was missed or increase my enjoyment of the initial part of the game. My Shepard was left on my ship, he would not of willingly headed back to Earth to begin with and would take a fire fight against a fleet to bring him back, failing that an infiltration team to capture. Their Shepard in their book is not my Shepard by a long way and causes a large discrepancy between the two formats. In a game or a DLC they can push our Shepard in a direction but give choices and allow us to experience it through the eyes of our own via interaction instead of their canon version who is neither of same appearance, personality or character as ours which they allowed us to bond with and develop.

I covered such here. I am resorting to linking what previously mentioned right now for a fair amount of replies due to the nature of how much debate has gone on most elements I have covered personally. Though I will continue to add input to things not yet covered when they arise. I point this out because I do not wish to give wrong impression that I am not willing to expand on discussion, just not resorting to repeating what I have already said unless required/needed.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 23 février 2012 - 08:44 .

[Vosch]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

The only time they have actually "ripped" something out is From Ashes...which is a whole different can of worms that this thread will not go into.

For the record...I played F:NV once...no DLCs...Played F3 maybe 8 times with some DLCs, loved Broken Steel for example. Fallout just isn't my thing I've noticed...don't like nuclear wasteland settings. I LUV TES though...their new DLC plan is actually bad ass...

Anyway to get this back on topic before it gets locked for Off-Topicness. Besides the obvious trolls that attempt and fail to get us aggravated, I feel we have made a very presentable case, to Bioware about our disapointment. Weather they actually give a s*** or not is another issue. Given their recent attitude towards even level headed fans I would doubt they do but who knows. I don't feel we should have to pay for something thats been promised from the beginning. Especially for something that would not take up a great deal of time to create since most of the base is already constructed. Also considering Bethesda has already promised they will be giving players -free- DLC that will consist of small things from time to time in between their epic "exspansion" DLCs.

There is no proof they even ripped it out even in that case. People are just assuming they did and wrongly doing so of which I talked about here. You need to keep a level head and not give in to knee jerk reactions in order to keep a debate reasonable and not locked. As you know and have had me on your side about the lack of trial on this subject, I refuse to join the assumptions and any hyperbole aspect of some elements in the thread, My opinion and my responses in here are about what I would like and the impact on my enjoyment, they do not owe us and we are not entitled to it but it would be nice if they could improve it for us.

The only evidence we have seen towards this element was how they set up the DLC in ME2 and how much emphasis was given to the aspect but this is completely different to saying they made a complete trial and then cut it. We do not have evidence of this, we just think it was a wasted opportunity to further have developed it and included it within the game, failing such would be nice if could apply some form of resolution in my case mentioned through DLC. They have not said will create and sell us such DLc but it is my hope they will, my preference and a way to increase my enjoyment of the "beginning" of the game in multiple play throughs now that game has gone gold and which all DLC is based upon (keeping the player and customer playing and funds coming in to use towards developing more content).

Well if they did not create the trial then they should have, since they made a DLC that we had to pay for in ME2 that BioWare told us would be crucial to the story and beginning of Mass Effect 3. They might not have actually created the trial yet(though it should have been one of the first things they created), but it's highly likely that they will make it in the future and charge us for something that should have been included in the main game on day one.

I'm not against expansive content, Rockstar's Undead Nightmare for Red Dead Redemption was a great example of how to properly implement DLC. It took nothing away from the main game, but added lots of extra content to enjoy. Arrival told us that the beggining of Mass Effect 3 was to be about Shepard being on trial for his actions. But now that Shepard's trial has been scrapped, I'm left with the feeling that my money spent on Arrival was a waste since Arrival doesn't really affect anything in ME3 anymore. And that was the whole POINT of Arrival, or so I thought.

Modifié par Vosch, 23 février 2012 - 08:53 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Vosch wrote...

Well if they did not create the trial then they should have, since they made a DLC that we had to pay for in ME2 that BioWare told us would be crucial to the story and beginning of Mass Effect 3. They might not have actually created the trial yet(though it should have been one of the first things they created), but it's highly likely that they will make it in the future and charge us for something that should have been included in the main game on day one.

I'm not against expansive content, Rockstar's Undead Nightmare for Red Dead Redemption was a great example of how to properly implement DLC. It took nothing away from the main game, but added lots of extra content to enjoy. Arrival told us that the beggining of Mass Effect 3 was to be about Shepard being on trial for his actions. But now that Shepard's trial has been scrapped, I'm left with the feeling that my money spent on Arrival was a waste since Arrival doesn't really affect anything in ME3 anymore. And that was the whole POINT of Arrival, or so I thought.

I agree it would be very nice and I very much hope they do release the content of the six months between standing on my ship to being back on Earth then being attacked. I think the game should (personal preference) of had such but I acknowledge that they do not owe me it. I would have preferred it, for many such would improve the quality of the introduction if had done so and enjoyment of that part of the game.

PR has never been something I liked about products (more so with EA's PR), because in general and especially in DA2's case as example, what they highlight and express is not always what you receive 100% and it's most basic purpose is to sell more games. They implied a trial, on multiple sources, they did not say we would be able to make choices and interact to a large degree in it even if 'other press sources' may have gave that impression. But it would have been far better if they had given us it for those of us who care about the subject of this 'part' of the game even if they do not owe us it. I consider this thread just feedback and expressing what would improve enjoyment of the game for us.

I have not ever bought any of Rockstar's DLC even though truly love RDR as a game, the story the character and the game play. I may do some day but not the zombie DLC as had enough of zombie games and addons to last a lifetime.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 23 février 2012 - 09:08 .

[Rudy Lis]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I agree it would be very nice and I very much hope they do release the content of the six months between standing on my ship to being back on Earth then being attacked.

I think for a start it should be good if they just put several strings into their "wall of text" (pfeh, "wall", I know one huy who can do better), establishing link between post-Arrival events and beginning of game, place us into proper events scale and helps with immersion.
And no, I'm not forcing my idea, but from my PoV it's much easier, faster and cheaper to do than create DLC. Pause between ME1 and ME2 was easy enough to describe and fill - Shepard was dead and travel time wasn't issue. Here it is. At least for me, but I already said that earlier. I'm not familiar with ME files structure, but I doubt that "day 0 patch" with such description will be a way too heavy to handle, maybe few Kb of text, plus some .exe to run upgrade, not sure.

[KadratisVelevere]

This is a bit of a disappointment. With the game options Action, Story, and RPG the trial could have fit well within both Story and RPG. I was looking to tell everybody, especially that bastard Udina, off with my renegade femShep (Hale's voice is awesome when she speaks in a loud angry manner).

[Liber320]

As long as you still have a chance to tell off the council (provided they're still alive), it's not a huge loss.

Still would've made the intro much more effective, imo.
Start off with by presenting the game's story-telling and branching dialogue, then move to the balls-not-quite-to-the-wall action

[frylock23]

Cripes, if nothing else, weren't we promised two weeks of news updates prior to ME3's release? I was thinking something along the lines of the daily updates we used to get on the Cerberus network. If they weren't going to give us the trial in game, they could at least have used those to give us an overview of trial preceedings.

[Dragoonlordz]

Liber320 wrote...

As long as you still have a chance to tell off the council (provided they're still alive), it's not a huge loss.

Still would've made the intro much more effective, imo.
Start off with by presenting the game's story-telling and branching dialogue, then move to the balls-not-quite-to-the-wall action

From what I understand you will (again) get to rant and confront the council in ME3. 

However I have heard nothing about confronting the Alliance remaining in ME3 retail, the trial would of covered this aspect and in no previous title or this one from what I have seen so far have we had or will be given that opportunity, unlike the council. The only thing have heard about confrontation with Alliance is to use our imaginations to make up for lack of content or rely on Vega to fill in blanks (which has not been confirmed how will do this but just mentioned by other fans) even if does at all, he is nothing but a soldier and his opinion means nothing to me, he does not fulfill the missed opportunity.  I should point out obviously I do not yet have copy of ME3 in my hands and do not know what they have planned for rest of the game but going only by what I know so far it (this aspect of what will probably be a very good game) is disappointing.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 24 février 2012 - 02:23 .

[TheRevanchist]

Dragoonlordz wrote...
There is no proof they even ripped it out even in that case. People are just assuming they did and wrongly doing so of which I talked about here. You need to keep a level head and not give in to knee jerk reactions in order to keep a debate reasonable and not locked. As you know and have had me on your side about the lack of trial on this subject, I refuse to join the assumptions and any hyperbole aspect of some elements in the thread, My opinion and my responses in here are about what I would like and the impact on my enjoyment, they do not owe us and we are not entitled to it but it would be nice if they could improve it for us.

The only evidence we have seen towards this element was how they set up the DLC in ME2 and how much emphasis was given to the aspect plus work began (was not finished/completed) on possibly adding such but this is completely different to saying they made a complete trial and then cut it. We do not have evidence of this, we just think it was a wasted opportunity which could further have developed it and included it within the game, failing such would be nice if could apply some form of resolution in my case mentioned through DLC. They have not said will create and sell us such as DLC, but it is my hope they will, my preference and a way to increase my enjoyment of the "beginning" of the game in multiple play throughs now that game has gone gold and which all DLC is based upon (keeping the player and customer playing and funds coming in to use towards developing more content and products).

I tend to agree with this guy regarding the From Ashes thing...I'll leave it at that. But I am not hyberboleing don't misunderstand lol. I -am- willing to pay for this trial, I just don't think I should since that was the whole reason for Arrival in the first place. I mostly agree, I don't think we are entitled...I just think for the most part it was something that was promised. It should have already been there for us to experience.

[Dragoonlordz]

There is two scales of reply on this issue it would seem for most here.

Those who would love the expansion of content on larger scale only viable if go through DLC. This is larger in the context of 6 months worth of ingame (timeline) content. Starting from where you left Shepard would seem most appropriate for myself (personal opinion and all). It would include many opportunities for interaction, dialogue, exposition, exploration and even combat. The amount of content is on bigger scale than alternative method will describe in second. As such the value added to the game would make it worth while to purchase in the format of DLC.

The second scale of response seems to be more smaller in nature. A patch of sort which just updates the introduction and adds context and some exposition, (if lucky) the trial content as well but only that at most because it then begins to stretch too far in scale to be a mere patch and becomes DLC by nature of size and content. this would be the desired 'free' option for those.

I fall into the former category while some others fit into the latter.


@Kyle

As for the 'other thing', he is responding in a knee jerk manner at the mention of the species involved. It has been implied from official sources that that character is and his mission are DLC but the actual lore and context might very well be in the SE regardless given by other means. The only difference is you will not be speaking to him directly and having him with you unless pick up the DLC. But the 'sort of' aspects he covers will be present even if he is not part of your team and you do not have the DLC. Biscuit reacted like a child throwing a hissy in how he responded rather than waiting for more information or even enquiring about it.


Possible Spoiler Content 

>Random Guy (of little importance) There's a theory going around that whatever you could've learned from this Prothean is already part of the core game, you don't need the DLC to get that content. What you do need this DLC for is to bring him along for the ride.
I'm inclined to believe this, to be honest. But we won't know for certain until the game comes out.

>Jessica (Bioware) No spoilers from me, but you may be on the right train of thought with that

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 24 février 2012 - 04:12 .

[TheRevanchist]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

There is two scales of reply on this issue it would seem for most here.

Those who would love the expansion of content on larger scale only viable if go through DLC. This is larger in the context of 6 months worth of ingame (timeline) content. Starting from where you left Shepard would seem most appropriate for myself (personal opinion and all). It would include many opportunities for interaction, dialogue, exposition, exploration and even combat. The amount of content is on bigger scale than alternative method will describe in second. As such the value added to the game would make it worth while to purchase in the format of DLC.

The second scale of response seems to be more smaller in nature. A patch of sort which just updates the introduction and adds context and some exposition, (if lucky) the trial content as well but only that at most because it then begins to stretch too far in scale to be a mere patch and becomes DLC by nature of size and content. this would be the desired 'free' option for those.

I fall into the former category while some others fit into the latter.

I would love to have the former...don't get me wrong...I just think the latter is far more likely if we ever get anything.

That may be... however we don't know for certin if that same information IS avalivble regardless of the DLC. For all we know thats just PR talk to get ppl to shut up about it. I'm not saying thats what it is...just one of many possibilities. I tend to believe it IS already in the game, but again we cannot know for sure until we have the final product.

Modifié par kylecouch, 24 février 2012 - 04:17 .

[Dragoonlordz]

kylecouch wrote...

That may be... however we don't know for certin if that same information IS avalivble regardless of the DLC. For all we know thats just PR talk to get ppl to shut up about it. I'm not saying thats what it is...just one of many possibilities. I tend to believe it IS already in the game, but again we cannot know for sure until we have the final product.

Trust is a personal issue regardless of fault, if you do not trust them they cannot force you to feel differently.

Think positive. It is both better for mental and physical health to do so. 

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 24 février 2012 - 04:25 .

[TheRevanchist]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

That may be... however we don't know for certin if that same information IS avalivble regardless of the DLC. For all we know thats just PR talk to get ppl to shut up about it. I'm not saying thats what it is...just one of many possibilities. I tend to believe it IS already in the game, but again we cannot know for sure until we have the final product.

Trust is a personal issue regardless of fault, if you do not trust them they cannot force you to feel differently.

Think positive. It is both better for mental and physical health to do so. 

it may be...however when it comes to things like this...I tend to think that if you think as badly as possible about something...you cannot possibly be disapointed...only pleasently surprised. unless it's the live action The Last Airbender movie....-shivers-...but I digress  It don't personally matter to me as I HAVE a CE pre-ordered. Just a possability of fishyness from a moral standpoint.

[Dragoonlordz]

kylecouch wrote...

It don't personally matter to me as I HAVE a CE pre-ordered.  

This I now hate you for. 

Retailer had pre-orders with, cancelled ones I had. Maybe with all the people spouting huff and puff cancellations I might get lucky but doubtful given most are huff and puff with no intention of following through.

Anyways I'll leave it there, slightly off topic last few replies so I would rather get back on topic.

Here is link to last on topic reply just above for those unwilling to scroll up. (just kidding) 

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 24 février 2012 - 04:42 .

[Rudy Lis]

kylecouch wrote...

I tend to agree with this guy regarding the From Ashes thing...I'll leave it at that. But I am not hyberboleing don't misunderstand lol. I -am- willing to pay for this trial, I just don't think I should since that was the whole reason for Arrival in the first place. I mostly agree, I don't think we are entitled...I just think for the most part it was something that was promised. It should have already been there for us to experience.

Yay, plot thickens! It's so thick you cut it with fillet knife.
How interesting. So that smoked jerkey companion is really that spoiler companion. Funny, where they kept him, in freezer? Why all of sudden I have certain in-game ads from GTA IV running through my mind? You know, those ads about Dragonbrain - furry sidekick, spewing one-liners while we chop shoot enemies' heads off.
But I digress. I agree with that guy, not because my 80 USD CE - 10 USD for smoked jerkey meatball companion will have pricetag of 70 USD, not to mention digital version (I really want to see cost estimation on that - amount of digital editions is so insignificant, so instead of compensating certain amount of expendatures, ommited from digital edition (no patch, litography, artbook - no material component (oh no, I played DnD too much)), they decided to follow path of hobgoblins from Ironfists camp from NWN2 - "we split the gold evenly"?
P.S. And I thought I have problems with brevity.

Dragoonlordz wrote...

...then begins to stretch too far in scale to be a mere patch and becomes DLC by nature of size and content...

Ice fishing! Err, I mean "Witcher". Huge patch with huge amount of content. Free. GTA IV DLC, with huge amount of content. Under what price? Mattock+Phalanx+Geth Plasma Shotgun versus TBoGT or TLAD? Eh...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I fall into the former category while some others fit into the latter.

I don't know into what category you put me, so I say it openly - I want both. Correcting existing state of events with minor adjustment of existing text info first, and proper trial AND "previously in ME" content second, because I find it extremely hilarious if EDI, Joker, Chakwas or any of "previously in ME2" personnel will tell Shepard how they departed from Normandy, Fist or Blake style.
Paragon (and even Renegade, for me it's more that scarred sociopath hating, killing and extorting everything) could send his crew off ship before or after turning himself in, to prevent possible repercussions for them. Put all blame on himself, so to speak.

[TheRevanchist]

But my original point was...once trust is broken...it's hard to regain it. They -have- indeed openly lied to us before about things. Remember "There is no multiplayer in ME3"? Cuz I sure do...just one example. Not saying I hate multiplayer...never did...its actually kinda fun despite its genericness. But as much as I really hate Witcher...I do gotta agree they had great stuff DLC wise.

[frylock23]

kylecouch wrote...

But my original point was...once trust is broken...it's hard to regain it. They -have- indeed openly lied to us before about things. Remember "There is no multiplayer in ME3"? Cuz I sure do...just one example. Not saying I hate multiplayer...never did...its actually kinda fun despite its genericness. But as much as I really hate Witcher...I do gotta agree they had great stuff DLC wise.

This one I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on. They may not have intended to have mp in ME3 at the time, but they may have been overruled by EA and it's new corporate direction which is to have every game in it's corporate stable feature some elements of cooperative style play and/or social networking. If you'll notice, ME3 has both of these. And, the mp was not developed by the studios that did the main ME3 game, but by another BioWare studio. They've even started shoehorning these things into EA games where it makes no sense to have them.

EA/BioWare is going to have to release something damn tempting after this for me to buy into it. I'm not even sure that DA:3 is going to pull me in.

[TheRevanchist]

frylock23 wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

But my original point was...once trust is broken...it's hard to regain it. They -have- indeed openly lied to us before about things. Remember "There is no multiplayer in ME3"? Cuz I sure do...just one example. Not saying I hate multiplayer...never did...its actually kinda fun despite its genericness. But as much as I really hate Witcher...I do gotta agree they had great stuff DLC wise.

This one I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on. They may not have intended to have mp in ME3 at the time, but they may have been overruled by EA and it's new corporate direction which is to have every game in it's corporate stable feature some elements of cooperative style play and/or social networking. If you'll notice, ME3 has both of these. And, the mp was not developed by the studios that did the main ME3 game, but by another BioWare studio. They've even started shoehorning these things into EA games where it makes no sense to have them.

EA/BioWare is going to have to release something damn tempting after this for me to buy into it. I'm not even sure that DA:3 is going to pull me in.

Pfft...DA2 destroid all my interest in that IP...DA3 will have to be the most magnificent fantasy game ever made to get me to pick it up.

[Farbautisonn]

kylecouch wrote...

Pfft...DA2 destroid all my interest in that IP...DA3 will have to be the most magnificent fantasy game ever made to get me to pick it up.

-Pretty much this. From all the crap I heard both IRL and other places, I decided it was not for me. And when Bioware has concluded Shephards adventures in "you need to metagame to undestand the game you purchase" land, ME will (as it looks from the demo and what Ive picked up on) be ruined for me as an IP as well.

2 potentially great storydriven IPs from the benchmark leader in storydriven games got their reputations ruined in what...3 years? For what? Catering to the pew pew crowd? Going for fast fiscal turnover in the MP market? Didnt bio care about its original fanbase enough to at least maintain the level of storytelling they have built a decade of reputation on? Did  Riccitiellos word mean that little? 

The problem with the pew pew crowd is that it is fickle. It goes for bigger, stronger, faster and glitzier. Like a junke looking for the next fix. Sure that means that the fiscal turnover for shooters is great. You need not involve yourself in the game. You need not involve yourself in the story. You just need to point and click as fast as your attention defecit disorder fingers will let you. And once the game youre playing now becomes slightly uninteresting or is surpassed by the next "our game has 3 sprites more and 8 more megs of ai", you find the next game. No loyalty, no interest. Just the next fix. The RP/Adventure crowd tends to be more loyal. Sure we might **** more, but we usually **** because we care. If we didnt care, we'd just ignore it and move on to the next company. Thats what was the fate of Westwood, origin and Bullfrog. Incidentially also gaming studios gobbled up by EA. So now, we the old timer fans who remember those studios and those games, are concerned. Worrid. Even panicking for some of us. And seemingly nothing is done to reassure us that things will be ok? Thats not good. Even a first year student of economics will tell you that ignoring or diverting from the core cooperation competances and clientbase is an extremely bad move in a time of fiscal crisis.

Modifié par Farbautisonn, 24 février 2012 - 01:26 .

[VonFaart]

From my POV the only acceptable ending (to the game) is that after Shepard & Crew deal with the Reapers, they hunt down & eliminate everyone who had anything to do with prosecuting Shepard. Politicians, military brass, the trail judge... the jury & even the court stenographer! Then Shepard takes off in the newly christened pirate ship Normandy, laying waste to any planet that didn't support her/his crusade against the Reapers.

[Rudy Lis]

kylecouch wrote...

But my original point was...once trust is broken...it's hard to regain it. They -have- indeed openly lied to us before about things. Remember "There is no multiplayer in ME3"? Cuz I sure do...just one example.

Remember George Carlin: By and large, language is a tool for concealing the truth.
Add there existing blackout on ME3 storyline...
No arguments on "restoring trust". It'll be interesting to study how this situation will develop itself in future.

kylecouch wrote...

Not saying I hate multiplayer...never did...its actually kinda fun despite its genericness.

Well, I do not. Never been fan of any form of multiplayer. Maybe only if it's something like Splinter Cell Co-Op, ArmA Co-Op campaigns, Portal Co-Op or RE5 Co-Op.
I don't understand crowds or even small groups of random people running around. Even if they are your friends. It could be funny enough to play once in a while, like those Rayman Raving rabbids" on Wii, but generally it is "try and drop" element for me.

kylecouch wrote...

But as much as I really hate Witcher...I do gotta agree they had great stuff DLC wise.

Hate Witcher? How's that possible? Purest RPG in it's true form.

frylock23 wrote...

This one I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on. They may not have intended to have mp in ME3 at the time, but they may have been overruled by EA and it's new corporate direction which is to have every game in it's corporate stable feature some elements of cooperative style play and/or social networking. If you'll notice, ME3 has both of these. And, the mp was not developed by the studios that did the main ME3 game, but by another BioWare studio. They've even started shoehorning these things into EA games where it makes no sense to have them.

Why waste resources on doubtful gaming mode, while it should be more logical to spent them on main story mode?
I can't help but I respect Remedy for their approach to Alan Wake - I definitely prefer to put my hands on good single, other than mediocre single and needless (for me, of course) multiplayer.
Personally I colour "multiplayer" as epidemy now, like "quick-time events" several years ago. Yes, randomly and WISELY put they could be interesting addition to gameplay. But when there is too much of them, you start to ask yourself (Ok, I ask myself) "WTF is that, what experience it's add, what point in that gameplay element?"
From time to time I can't get out of my head one feeling - feeling, that many gameplay elements were added under mantra "why the **** not, OTHERS have them too!". and add them, without any logical link between game and elements.
And here is a problem (in my understanding, as good Dragoonlordz prefer to point) - when there is too much of something, you stop noticing it and it starts to irritate, but provide pleasure and joy. From "selling" or "interesting" point it turns to "just one of many elements". Was it worth it?

frylock23 wrote...

EA/BioWare is going to have to release something damn tempting after this for me to buy into it. I'm not even sure that DA:3 is going to pull me in.

kylecouch wrote...

Pfft...DA2 destroid all my interest in that IP...DA3 will have to be the most magnificent fantasy game ever made to get me to pick it up.

There are shorter ways to say "I don't buy DA3 no matter what".

Farbautisonn wrote...

2 potentially great storydriven IPs from the benchmark leader in storydriven games got their reputations ruined in what...3 years? For what? Catering to the pew pew crowd? Going for fast fiscal turnover in the MP market? Didnt bio care about its original fanbase enough to at least maintain the level of storytelling they have built a decade of reputation on? Did Riccitiellos word mean that little?

IMHO modern realities - instead of long-term investments on rather cost and somewhat risky approach they prefer "fast cash". As long as people "bite" they will continue to feed us with "more the same".
Add there "cutting corners" policy (not sure it touched Bioware, but if it is in other industries, why not in game-dev?), and you got "very average product". Yes, within "mean" margins within industry.

Farbautisonn wrote...

Sure we might **** more, but we usually **** because we care.

I couldn't describe it better.

Modifié par Rudy Lis, 24 février 2012 - 02:02 .

[TheRevanchist]

Exactly...in fact for me personally this is the exact same thing that happend pre DA2.

Game is announced, ultra excited.

gets news, still excited.

begins to notice the childish "button = awsome" marketing campaign, "uh....what?"

Gets more news, worry sets in, remains optimistic.

More and more worry as more news is released, remains hopeful despite odds.

Gives Bioware benefit of doubt, picks up game.

Finishes game, snaps off on a TL;DR rant on BSN and drops off the earth for like 6 months trying to sooth rage. came back around bout a month after ME3 announcment. now noticeing same pattern.

[TheRevanchist]

I hate Witcher because it's nothing but tedious crap...the story is the worst I've seen in ages and the protagonist is horrible and hollow. Sorry but you will never convince me The Witcher is a good game...never.

I might get DA3 one day...after it drops like $50 in price....

[Rudy Lis]

kylecouch wrote...

I hate Witcher because it's nothing but tedious crap...the story is the worst I've seen in ages and the protagonist is horrible and hollow. Sorry but you will never convince me The Witcher is a good game...never.

Have no intentions to convince anyone in anything. Jedem das seine.
Just find it funny how westerners generally blame Witcher, while praising their, western titles and "RPG values". Smell hypocrite to me. 
At least your response is not "he looks gay" argument.

kylecouch wrote...

I might get DA3 one day...after it drops like $50 in price....

You mean they have to pay you $10?