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So, what happened to the trial?


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#726
izmirtheastarach

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Nashiktal wrote...
If the demo really is the opening for ME3, then B doesn't make any sense to me. I barely understood what was going on, even as a veteran of the Mass Effect series. I know who vega is... Barely. I know anderson stepped down from the council... from the wiki. (I don't know how he kept his job after what he did though). I know who the VS is, but thats a bare bones intro.

That'sjust covering what I do know. I don't know anything about this defence council, I don't know why shep's been in that room for so long, I don't know... Well a lot. Its jarring, it feels rushed, and so far this is the worse opening for the Mass Effect series so far.


Chris has confirmed it as explicitly as he can. The intro is the same in the game as it is in the demo. He seems to think the Reapers invade at the end of Shepard's trial. But of course that part is patently untrue, as there is no trial in the demo.

Apparently the way you know there was a trial is because you were told that on the BSN. Without this source of info, you would have no idea.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 13 février 2012 - 07:38 .


#727
Gibb_Shepard

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Too bad all this rage won't change anything. Someone make a new thread so that BW can clarify something i'm sure everyone is itching to know:

Where the **** are my dialogue choices?

#728
incinerator950

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Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

To be fair... Arrival didn't really have any choices to have consequences for...


Neither did LotSB

Edit: Screw blending text so you can't clearly read it.

Modifié par incinerator950, 13 février 2012 - 07:39 .


#729
izmirtheastarach

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Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Too bad all this rage won't change anything. Someone make a new thread so that BW can clarify something i'm sure everyone is itching to know:

Where the **** are my dialogue choices?


In the actual game.

#730
orpheuslupus

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That actually was confirmed somewhere, though sadly I don't have the actual quote or screen grab at the moment. There was SOMETHING mentioned somewhere about three being the "minimum" for choices throughout most of the game, "but sometimes two are all you need."

Whether or not there's more choices in the final version of the opening I have no idea, but it certainly sounds like the rest of the game will have more than two generally..

#731
Terror_K

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Nashiktal wrote...

If the demo really is the opening for ME3, then B doesn't make any sense to me. I barely understood what was going on, even as a veteran of the Mass Effect series. I know who vega is... Barely. I know anderson stepped down from the council... from the wiki. (I don't know how he kept his job after what he did though). I know who the VS is, but thats a bare bones intro.

That'sjust covering what I do know. I don't know anything about this defence council, I don't know why shep's been in that room for so long, I don't know... Well a lot. Its jarring, it feels rushed, and so far this is the worse opening for the Mass Effect series so far.


Well, that's the thing isn't it... it's not really a good intro for either new or veteran players, because it rushes through things too much... so much so it even feels like Anderson is rushing Shepard along and indirectly saying, "Quickly! We have to get to the other Admirals in time for the Reaper invasion for dramatic effect! No time to talk with Vega or Williams! Move! MOVE!"

There's too little meat there and too little time taken, but at the same time too many things still brought up to merely be glossed over. Vega, Anderson's position (if you made him Councilor), the VS's quick cameo, etc. just aren't given enough time to settle and enough context and focus to really be satisfying, and it would almost be better if they weren't there at all than given the quick once-over on the way to the attack. The tension is neutered and impact lessened because the attack doesn't come suddenly at all; the Admirals are all wetting themselves from the get-go.

So we've got something that for new players throws up too much stuff, only to gloss over it too quickly and rush to the climax, thus making them go, "WTF?!!" and for veterans it just doesn't reflect on the past events enough because it glosses over or ignores them just to cut to the chase. It fails for both sides of the ME3  player coin.

I personally have no real problem with the basic premise of the opening events (beyond thinking the Alliance brass still being in denial until the last moment would have provided more impact), but it's the breakneck speed and execution of it that's extremely poor and questionable. Again, it's like ME3 is more for the Michael Bay fan than the Ridley Scott ones: screw tension, screw building up an opening with good pacing, screw dialogue and character-defining moments... just get to the 'sploshuns!!! Had the same basic events taken place over 2-3 times as much time and there been some semblance of part of the trial actually taking place, then it would have been fine. As it stands... clumsy and rushed.

Modifié par Terror_K, 13 février 2012 - 07:49 .


#732
Nashiktal

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incinerator950 wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

The difference between this and ME2 is that in ME2, missing out on two years worth of galactic events is okay, because the player-character is not present.

But here in ME3, my Shepard has been doing things for months that I have had no control over. It really breaks immersion. And now I get introduced to him again, and I have to try and piece together what happened in the interim. Seems like a very odd choice by Bioware, to create this disconnect right at the beginning of the game.


It's another classic side-effect of them both A) caring more about snagging potential new players from the CoD set than pleasing existing ones, and B) concentrating too much on making each part stand on its own instead of actually developing a properly trilogy that coherently fits together and truly depends on the prior titles.

Simply put: BioWare's pandering to the potential new fan has pretty much ruined this trilogy and IP as a whole.


If the demo really is the opening for ME3, then B doesn't make any sense to me. I barely understood what was going on, even as a veteran of the Mass Effect series. I know who vega is... Barely. I know anderson stepped down from the council... from the wiki. (I don't know how he kept his job after what he did though). I know who the VS is, but thats a bare bones intro.

That'sjust covering what I do know. I don't know anything about this defence council, I don't know why shep's been in that room for so long, I don't know... Well a lot. Its jarring, it feels rushed, and so far this is the worse opening for the Mass Effect series so far.


I find the other two intros to be good in their own ways, ME 1 for getting the Relay music stuck in my head, and ME 2 for hearing Titanic miniature piano sequence when Shepard dies and somehow didn't disintigrate into Planetfall. 

Personally, I understand everything that has happened, I also accept a few reasons why they did it, and I like it.  This may be because I have a different immersion into RPGs then most players, or maybe because I'm more open about accepting things and not demanding the slightest amount of nit-picking.  I have my moments though.



I liked the ME1 intro, and I thought the ME2 intro was ok.

And for you to understand everything that is going on in ME3 means you have read all the expanded materials. Comics, novels, or at the very least the wiki.

That doesn't sound like a good job making it stand alone, or introducing new players to me. Again though, I also have to emphasize it feels rushed. 

#733
Gibb_Shepard

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izmirtheastarach wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Too bad all this rage won't change anything. Someone make a new thread so that BW can clarify something i'm sure everyone is itching to know:

Where the **** are my dialogue choices?


In the actual game.

Hahaha. That's exactly what everyone was saying about the trial before Priestly confirmed otherwise. Can't wait to see the look on players' faces when they see their Sheps saying absolutely idiotic stuff without their input throughout the game.

"It's not about planning or tactics! It's about survival!"

Modifié par Gibb_Shepard, 13 février 2012 - 07:43 .


#734
Nashiktal

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Terror_K wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

If the demo really is the opening for ME3, then B doesn't make any sense to me. I barely understood what was going on, even as a veteran of the Mass Effect series. I know who vega is... Barely. I know anderson stepped down from the council... from the wiki. (I don't know how he kept his job after what he did though). I know who the VS is, but thats a bare bones intro.

That'sjust covering what I do know. I don't know anything about this defence council, I don't know why shep's been in that room for so long, I don't know... Well a lot. Its jarring, it feels rushed, and so far this is the worse opening for the Mass Effect series so far.


Well, that's the thing isn't it... it's not really a good intro for either new or veteran players, because it rushes through things too much... so much so it even feels like Anderson is rushing Shepard along and indirectly saying, "Quickly! We have to get to the other Admirals in time for the Reaper invasion for dramatic effect! No time to talk with Vega or Williams! Move! MOVE!"

There's too little meat there and too little time taken, but at the same time too many things still brought up to merely be glossed over. Vega, Anderson's position (if you made him Councilor), the VS's quick cameo, etc. just aren't given enough time to settle and enough context and focus to really be satisfying, and it would almost be better if they weren't there at all than given the quick once-over on the way to the attack. The tension is neutered and impact lessened because the attack doesn't come suddenly at all; the Admirals are all wetting themselves from the get-go.

So we've got something that for new players throws up too much stuff, only to gloss over it too quickly and rush to the climax, thus making them go, "WTF?!!" and for veterans it just doesn't reflect on the past events enough because it glosses over or ignores them just to cut to the chase. It fails for both sides of the ME3  player coin.


Agreed entirely. Very good points made.

#735
MasterSamson88

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Not really a deal breaker for me, but it does make the intro sort of random feeling. Especially since it seems we're all just supposed to know Vega already without any kind of real intro.

Anyway though, it's just the intro.

Also to people panicking over choices I'll direct you to this tweet by Mac Walters

"It's rare to only have 2 choices. We aim for "minimum" of 3 in most cases. Of course sometimes 2 is all you need."

I take this as some of the dire or important situations will have 2 choices. While a lot of casual conversations and everything else may have like 3.

#736
Maj.Pain007

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Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

To be fair... Arrival didn't really have any choices to have consequences for...


You blow up a whole system. Most of the galaxy does not believe in the reaper threat so yeah they want to know why you did that.

#737
CDRSkyShepard

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Xarathox wrote...

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

It's explained Anderson and Hackett take bullets for you.

So again not bad writing. It's been set up why Shepard isn't executed at this point.


No no no no...never is it EVER explicitly stated either of them have taken bullets for you. Anderson says it's because of your past actions saving the galaxy and his good word. I don't even think there's a blurb in there abou Hackett's support for you at all. And even then, it's just a good word being put in for you, not anyone taking falls.

Also, Anderson said, "tried, court-martialled, and discharged." I have no idea where you got executions from.




I'm a bit slow tonight...so forgive me if I'm missing something. It just sunk in what Anderson said to Shepard. "Any other soldier would've been tried, court-martialed and discharged". Discharged? for nuking 300k batarians? Whoo the Alliance is lenient on mass murder.


I'd assume dishonorable discharge, which is pretty serious. I imagine the Alliance would show some leniency to Shepard since the evidence against him/her is "shoddy at best" (no matter if everyone knew that's what you did, if there isn't enough evidence to convict...there isn't enough) and based on the fact Shepard saved the galaxy twice. I don't think they'd give someone like that a life sentence in the brig. I'd also imagine the Alliance doesn't practice executions...most human future societies don't, especially not for big iconic heroes like Shepard.

#738
CroGamer002

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Chris Priestly wrote...

Mass Effect 3 starts (roughly) 6 months after the end of Mass Effect 2. It starts with the end of the trial of Commander Shepard during which the Reapers first arrive on earth. This is the bit that starts the game and the demo.



:devil:


*ahem*

ME3 starts 2 months after Arrival and Shepard was arrested few days later, little before events of ME Conviction comic started.

So, there is no trial since no normal trial about war crimes would even start in that short time.
We only had a hearing before actual trial, but Reapers crash the party before that.

#739
Computer_God91

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Here is me pissed off that the demo intro is the actual game intro. I'd go onto ranting why it's the dumbest intro (perhaps even on the same level as ME2). Then after all that effort and emotion is put forth I realize that there is nothing I can do to change it no matter how much I try. That's when I continue to do exactly what I planned on doing in the first place.

#740
Prom001

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Terror_K wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

The difference between this and ME2 is that in ME2, missing out on two years worth of galactic events is okay, because the player-character is not present.

But here in ME3, my Shepard has been doing things for months that I have had no control over. It really breaks immersion. And now I get introduced to him again, and I have to try and piece together what happened in the interim. Seems like a very odd choice by Bioware, to create this disconnect right at the beginning of the game.


It's another classic side-effect of them both A) caring more about snagging potential new players from the CoD set than pleasing existing ones, and B) concentrating too much on making each part stand on its own instead of actually developing a properly trilogy that coherently fits together and truly depends on the prior titles.

Simply put: BioWare's pandering to the potential new fan has pretty much ruined this trilogy and IP as a whole.

Now the game isn't even out yet and I can already see where wasting time and resources on crap like multiplayer, Kinect support, babying the new players, etc. instead of developing a proper introduction. Instead we get an unsatisfying rush-job with almost no dialogue choices, no moments that really help define your Shepard beyond whichever Virmire Survivor shows up, no real connections to the prior games and clumsy pacing just so the action isn't too far off in case ADD-riddled shooter fanboys get antsy and throw the controller away in dusgust.


this!

#741
Terror_K

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CDRSkyShepard wrote...

...and based on the fact Shepard saved the galaxy twice.


To be fair, how many beyond TIM and those aboard the Normandy actually even know what went on after Shepard went through the Omega Relay?

#742
AlphaJarmel

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Oh boy launch day is going to be fun.

#743
Terror_K

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AlphaJarmel wrote...

Oh boy launch day is going to be fun.


Probably more realistically, about 4-7 days after launch day is going to be fun. I'm sure most will at least complete the game once before jumping on to critique it, if only to avoid possible spoilers.

#744
incinerator950

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Nashiktal wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

The difference between this and ME2 is that in ME2, missing out on two years worth of galactic events is okay, because the player-character is not present.

But here in ME3, my Shepard has been doing things for months that I have had no control over. It really breaks immersion. And now I get introduced to him again, and I have to try and piece together what happened in the interim. Seems like a very odd choice by Bioware, to create this disconnect right at the beginning of the game.


It's another classic side-effect of them both A) caring more about snagging potential new players from the CoD set than pleasing existing ones, and B) concentrating too much on making each part stand on its own instead of actually developing a properly trilogy that coherently fits together and truly depends on the prior titles.

Simply put: BioWare's pandering to the potential new fan has pretty much ruined this trilogy and IP as a whole.


If the demo really is the opening for ME3, then B doesn't make any sense to me. I barely understood what was going on, even as a veteran of the Mass Effect series. I know who vega is... Barely. I know anderson stepped down from the council... from the wiki. (I don't know how he kept his job after what he did though). I know who the VS is, but thats a bare bones intro.

That'sjust covering what I do know. I don't know anything about this defence council, I don't know why shep's been in that room for so long, I don't know... Well a lot. Its jarring, it feels rushed, and so far this is the worse opening for the Mass Effect series so far.


I find the other two intros to be good in their own ways, ME 1 for getting the Relay music stuck in my head, and ME 2 for hearing Titanic miniature piano sequence when Shepard dies and somehow didn't disintigrate into Planetfall. 

Personally, I understand everything that has happened, I also accept a few reasons why they did it, and I like it.  This may be because I have a different immersion into RPGs then most players, or maybe because I'm more open about accepting things and not demanding the slightest amount of nit-picking.  I have my moments though.



I liked the ME1 intro, and I thought the ME2 intro was ok.

And for you to understand everything that is going on in ME3 means you have read all the expanded materials. Comics, novels, or at the very least the wiki.

That doesn't sound like a good job making it stand alone, or introducing new players to me. Again though, I also have to emphasize it feels rushed. 


I can't comment on that because I didn't actually feel the demo with my hands through my controller.  Hence, I cannot tell how completely rushed it is until tomorrow or the following day.  As to the standalone, I was going to comment directly to Chris, but the way I was linked to the topic voided twenty pages, and then I accidentally stumbled into this wonderful debate now.  

Actually, I just read the wiki on the EU and have been luerking the forums for different amounts of times.  Not going to bother reading the comics or novels, I felt they were a waste of the ME IP, and were better off being written after the games were solidified.  

Modifié par incinerator950, 13 février 2012 - 08:08 .


#745
Drone223

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CDRSkyShepard wrote...

Xarathox wrote...

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

It's explained Anderson and Hackett take bullets for you.

So again not bad writing. It's been set up why Shepard isn't executed at this point.


No no no no...never is it EVER explicitly stated either of them have taken bullets for you. Anderson says it's because of your past actions saving the galaxy and his good word. I don't even think there's a blurb in there abou Hackett's support for you at all. And even then, it's just a good word being put in for you, not anyone taking falls.

Also, Anderson said, "tried, court-martialled, and discharged." I have no idea where you got executions from.




I'm a bit slow tonight...so forgive me if I'm missing something. It just sunk in what Anderson said to Shepard. "Any other soldier would've been tried, court-martialed and discharged". Discharged? for nuking 300k batarians? Whoo the Alliance is lenient on mass murder.


I'd assume dishonorable discharge, which is pretty serious. I imagine the Alliance would show some leniency to Shepard since the evidence against him/her is "shoddy at best" (no matter if everyone knew that's what you did, if there isn't enough evidence to convict...there isn't enough) and based on the fact Shepard saved the galaxy twice. I don't think they'd give someone like that a life sentence in the brig. I'd also imagine the Alliance doesn't practice executions...most human future societies don't, especially not for big iconic heroes like Shepard.


Actually the Alliance does have the death penelty, Jacob says so "we'll be seen as hero's or treid and executted (sp)"

Modifié par Drone223, 13 février 2012 - 08:15 .


#746
MasterSamson88

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vader da slayer wrote...

Comsky159 wrote...

Since the beginning of the series we've never had questions about Shepard which he wouldn't have himself. It's been a symbiosis of player and main character. Never before have we needed to ask where he is, what he's doing there or who and why this "buddy" of his is present. It's always been proximate and consistent role-playing until now suddenly, there's this significant gap in time in which many obscure and unclarified events have occurred around him/her without player knowledge. Player and character are suddenly divided and (excuse the dramatic term) betrayed. The player, if only for a moment, is rendered helpless for the first time. For me that's why the opening feels so very disjointed. I was doubtful that this character bearing Shepard's name is the same one I had honed intensely for over 100 hours of prior play.

Not a game-breaking hitch but a slap in the face for the serious, immersed role-player. For those who play more abstractedly (or are new to the series) I empathise this wouldn't seem such an issue, but for the rest of us the line "That **** you done Shepard" isn't really satisfactory.


how are there questions? he turns himself in, Vega is assigned to gaurd him, he is convictd of w/e you get charged with when taking out an entire system and discharged and now the committee wants to speak to you.

I didn't find a single point in the intro where I had a question as to what happened between the end of arrival and begining of ME3.


A lot of people wanted to have their law and order special at the begining of the game.

I understand their dissapointment, but at the same time I don't really think it's worth getting so worked up over. This is all getting very dramatic. 

#747
Arppis

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I'm sure you guys get to know Vega better in the Normandy, don't worry about THAT atleast. I know it sucks that the trial isn't around anymore.

And remember how little they explained about Shepard in the first game, even second game was pretty action packed and then it calmed down.

Modifié par Arppis, 13 février 2012 - 08:18 .


#748
Yuoaman

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Arppis wrote...

I'm sure you guys get to know Vega better in the Normandy, don't worry about THAT atleast. I know it sucks that the trial isn't around anymore.


But Vega and Shepard act like they're old buddies in the intro, even though the player has never spoken with him before.

#749
DayusMakhina

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Gibb_Shepard wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Too bad all this rage won't change anything. Someone make a new thread so that BW can clarify something i'm sure everyone is itching to know:

Where the **** are my dialogue choices?


In the actual game.

Hahaha. That's exactly what everyone was saying about the trial before Priestly confirmed otherwise. Can't wait to see the look on players' faces when they see their Sheps saying absolutely idiotic stuff without their input throughout the game.

"It's not about planning or tactics! It's about survival!"

Difference is Chris Priestley, Jessica Merizan and Mac Walters have all confirmed that there are more dialogue choices available in game than there is in the demo.

https://twitter.com/...805426618994688

^ There's Mac Walters tweet about it only 3 days ago. 

#750
Arppis

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Yuoaman wrote...

Arppis wrote...

I'm sure you guys get to know Vega better in the Normandy, don't worry about THAT atleast. I know it sucks that the trial isn't around anymore.


But Vega and Shepard act like they're old buddies in the intro, even though the player has never spoken with him before.


I'm sure they will explain on that once you get to Normandy.

Shepard propably had a life before ME1 too and he propably knew Anderson too. They didn't tell much of him either.