2915 réponses à ce sujet

[Nerevar-as]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

kylecouch wrote...


The reasons have been repeated to death like a whole MLB team beating a dead horse with their baseball bats in this thread already.

No they haven't.

There are ZERO reasons why this intro invalidates what happened in Arrival.

The fact you fail to reconize their legetimacy is not my concern.

Because NOTHING HAS BEEN SAID.

Arrival happened, Shepard has been punished for his actions.

We're gonna see the repercussions of Arrival when we get to the citidel.

I think it´s more like Arrival happened, let´s put Shepard under arrest or the batarians will start a war. Because that´s the only reasoning I can think of that justifies grounding the most capable person to deal with the Reapers when the Reapers are about to knock on the door. Although during the hearing the Admirals seem to expect Shepard will produce a Reaper off button given the conversation prior to the attack.

[izmirtheastarach]

phimseto wrote...

- Set the stage politically based on past decisions. Remember at the beginning of Star Trek IV where the Klingon ambassador moped that there could be no peace while Kirk lived? A Batarian delegate could have delivered a similar message. Likewise, other races could have chimed in based on things you did or didn't do.

- Allowed your character to make some statements whose repercussions would have echoed throughout the game.

These two things are what I thought we were told would be in the game. That it would set some sort of tone. So now the tone is set by one line of dialgue. Umm....Demo Spoilers?

Either we stand together (Paragon) or we should all be willing to die (Renegade). And then the dumb Admiral says "that's our plan?"

Apparently it was Shepards resposibility, as an officer under suspension, to design the entire defensive plan against the Reapers. This part is still a little odd to me. I kind of yelled at the screen. Why is it my job to come up with a plan? Oh right, because I'm to protaganist, and all other leaders in the universe are morons. Except for Keith David...I mean Anderson, who is a total BA.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 13 février 2012 - 07:04 .

[Nashiktal]

Saint Op wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

FlyinElk212 wrote...

Not necessarily. The trial wouldn't be about the reality of the Reapers--it would be about Shepard trying to justify his actions in essentially killing 300,000+ Batarians, as well as his past alignment with Cerberus. It would've been a captivating way for players to review their past game's actions while showing Shepard in a position of vulnerability, which is INCREDIBLE considering there are so few moments we get in Mass Effect to really flesh out Shepard's character...

A trial scene would be totally superfluous to the plot.  Firstly, there is no need to justify why Shep took such outrageous actions when the answer - The Reapers - literally smash in through the windows in the next scene.  The audience is not retarded.

Secondly, players who have carried out the activities you describe may have their own motivations for their actions that BioWare couldn't capture in three dialogue options.  Both the issues you bring up have been argued in intricate detail over literally hundreds of forum pages.  If BW went the route you're describing I guarantee the whinefest in here OMG BIOWARE MY SHEP WOULD NEVAR SAY THAT would be visible from space.

Thirdly, players who have not played the prior game would have absolutely no idea what the correct answer was to the questions.  "Commander Shepard.  You stand accused of killing ten thousand Yagshoms in the Kazam Subsector.  And you gave the Ring of Jenzara to the Telurbians!  What the hell were you thinking?"

Paragon- "I don't know."
Neutral- "I don't know."
Renegade- "I don't know."

A trial scene is a bad idea for so many reasons.  It would add unnecessary flab right to the top of the story.  It would be immediately invalidated by what came after (the Reaper invasion) anyway, so what's the point of including it?  It would limit the existing fanbase's justification for their most morally complex decisions to one of three one-liner replies, and it would puzzle the hell out of those new to the series.  Any way I game it out in my head, a trial scene is a shockingly bad idea.

This is a pretty good point, I think a little more justification that "this is war people die" would have helped, or more than a little passing reference.

Heck even a 2 minute prelude like Varric in DA2..........Shepard states his case...........committee "Very well, you are grounded until further notice.........."

All this leading up to the intro with VEGA.

I think this could have worked no doubt

I agree with Captain...
Batarians would mean nothing to a new player Cerberus would mean nothing. If they say I loved Cerberus and then start fighting them the second or so mission in the game they would be like damn I picked the wrong thing...

Plus they stated previously that the choosing in the "comic" didn't work because people had no subtext. If you played the previous games you know what happened and why you did it. If there was a trial and Shep didn't say evey line just how "you" wanted then "you" would complane that it isn't how your Shep would handle it.

As for the Vega thing it's just like how your body got with the collectors. You have to read the prequil comic. This is not unpresidented in games, or many types of media for that matter.

With that logic the new player would not be familiar with ANYTHING, and as such would need a proper introduction to introduce the player to this large and expanded universe that was crafted OVER TWO GAMES AGO.

Also having to read a comic to understand whats going on in a game series is terrible. Comics should expand the universe, not be required reading to the main series.

[Alamar2078]

I'm a little disappointed there isn't a trial. I could see that new players wouldn't get anything out of it but if you imported a save [which a new player wouldn't have] you could have gotten additional content which I'm all for ....

I think hearing input from various races on how they view Shep a nice thing and it would have been really cool. Heck maybe they could have been character witnesses during the sentencing phase ... maybe Anderson could have explained that Shep was being railroaded or something ....

Edit:  It would have been funny seeing one of your crew / friends / whatever trying to "Rally the crowd" 

Modifié par Alamar2078, 13 février 2012 - 07:13 .

[Cloaking_Thane]

Saint Op wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...
This is a pretty good point, I think a little more justification that "this is war people die" would have helped, or more than a little passing reference.

Heck even a 2 minute prelude like Varric in DA2..........Shepard states his case...........committee "Very well, you are grounded until further notice.........."

All this leading up to the intro with VEGA.

I think this could have worked no doubt

I agree with Captain...
Batarians would mean nothing to a new player Cerberus would mean nothing. If they say I loved Cerberus and then start fighting them the second or so mission in the game they would be like damn I picked the wrong thing...

Plus they stated previously that the choosing in the "comic" didn't work because people had no subtext. If you played the previous games you know what happened and why you did it. If there was a trial and Shep didn't say evey line just how "you" wanted then "you" would complane that it isn't how your Shep would handle it.

As for the Vega thing it's just like how your body got with the collectors. You have to read the prequil comic. This is not unpresidented in games, or many types of media for that matter.

I'll be honest I don't want to read a comic, not my thing.

People whine about everything, but a reasonable enough explained statement "Reapers delay vs. 300K lives" should satisfy most, I really think a scenario similar to the DA2 into with Varric could have worked out. Shepard gives testimony backed up by Anderson who sways them to "ground him" all of this in 3 minutes or so, it wouldnt even have to be very different than ME2 intro either. Idk, I don't think it would hinder "new player experience"

..I can expand later, but dont want to write a novel currently (work yuck!)

[Saint Op]

Nashiktal wrote...


With that logic the new player would not be familiar with ANYTHING, and as such would need a proper introduction to introduce the player to this large and expanded universe that was crafted OVER TWO GAMES AGO.

Also having to read a comic to understand whats going on in a game series is terrible. Comics should expand the universe, not be required reading to the main series.

It's not that you need the comic but it explains more as does Vega in game anyway and this is not a new thing and has happened in other games for info on before and after the story.

Also they hopefully would include something to catch new players up I have heard that there will be alot of in game dialog to catch up new players but its not needed right off the bat. But the story in alot of ways stands on it's own and if you NEED to know everything well then play the previous games...

I like the intro it's sudden quick and leaves you wantingto know more... it's a galaxcy at war it should feel uneasy and paniced...

[streamlock]

I can't find it, but months ago I commented about the tragedy that Bioware's new official rulebook on gaming precludes having a lengthy exposition and that the trail would be at max 15 minutes before the new design mantra required something blow the frak up.

So....how far off the mark was I with the 15 minute max prediction?

[Iakus]

Nashiktal wrote...

With that logic the new player would not be familiar with ANYTHING, and as such would need a proper introduction to introduce the player to this large and expanded universe that was crafted OVER TWO GAMES AGO.

Also having to read a comic to understand whats going on in a game series is terrible. Comics should expand the universe, not be required reading to the main series.

This on all counts.

Anyone here remember the movie Aliens, with the inquest as to the events on the Nostromo in the first movie?  Only took a few minutes but it gives you pretty much all the information you need to get caught up (Is it wrong that I'd pay extra to give Shep, especially FemShep a chance to say "Did IQs drop sharply while I was away?")

That being said, if there is no trial ro hearing or whatever (haven't played the demo yet, and even then, don't know if anything's been cut for space), that will only be a minor annoyance to me.  As I said before, at least this time Shep doesn't get turned into a cyborg zombie without explanation this time.  how bad is it when that's a silver lining?

Modifié par iakus, 13 février 2012 - 07:20 .

[Cloaking_Thane]

streamlock wrote...

I can't find it, but months ago I commented about the tragedy that Bioware's new official rulebook on gaming precludes having a lengthy exposition and that the trail would be at max 15 minutes before the new design mantra required something blow the frak up.

So....how far off the mark was I with the 15 minute max prediction?

15 minutes

[Ecmoose]

Personally I don't mind avoiding a full Trial. One it would drag the beginning of the game on endlessly, and I don't need a rehash of everything I've done in the previous two games.
Two, I've seen plenty of real life court cases, they're tedious as all hell at the best of times. To open a game up with an "exciting court trial" would push the limits, ostracize new players looking to get into the fray and just over all suck.

The situation as it stands may not be perfect, but I'll take it over a trial any day.

[izmirtheastarach]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

streamlock wrote...

I can't find it, but months ago I commented about the tragedy that Bioware's new official rulebook on gaming precludes having a lengthy exposition and that the trail would be at max 15 minutes before the new design mantra required something blow the frak up.

So....how far off the mark was I with the 15 minute max prediction?

15 minutes

This. Down to the last second. Not there. Zip. Zilch. Nada. Missing in action.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 13 février 2012 - 07:26 .

[Saint Op]

Ecmoose wrote...

Personally I don't mind avoiding a full Trial. One it would drag the beginning of the game on endlessly, and I don't need a rehash of everything I've done in the previous two games.
Two, I've seen plenty of real life court cases, they're tedious as all hell at the best of times. To open a game up with an "exciting court trial" would push the limits, ostracize new players looking to get into the fray and just over all suck.

The situation as it stands may not be perfect, but I'll take it over a trial any day.

I would not want to see the nitpicks over a accual trial.  
The objection was called improperly and section 3 paragraph D states that a renegade interupt would hold Shep in contempt of court and the witness was a moose.

[Mr. Sheepgood]

 I would've liked to have ME3 start with the trial. Call me old fashioned but I don't need to have everything explode every 10 minutes to enjoy a game. It would've been a cool opportunity to emphasize and remind us who the Shepherd we're playing is, what his/our ideals are, they could've also expanded the trial for non-imports where they go over your history and you get to pick the decisions of the previous games... maybe even through the whole intro, before the trial too. Just have it a part of the game and not some loading screen. And all the while they build atmosphere and feeling of dread and anxiety with you knowing the reapers could arrive any minute while the Alliance command still doubts you.... I just find it an interesting theme of the story that was used somewhat in the previous games and would've been cool here as well.

However... I think we also can't really comment on how Bioware handled the exposition and all that because it's probably done on the Normandy, and you get the "OMG BOOM!!!" scenes as the intro because they wanted to set the tone and convey as early as possible that the reaper threat is real, they're here, we need to do something to save the galaxy, blah blah, feeling of urgency, etc... and get it over with asap.

[JoePilot]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Gemini1179 wrote...

Then you're the kind of customer EA wants. No sense bogging players down with plot and character development when there are things to kill!

(Sorry I couldn't help it, I'm disappoineted at the opening- it's another bit of railroading and cut corners)

Ok, I know I'm a tool of the Man and all, but how so?

If you are a new player (haven't played ME1 or ME2) you learn who Shepard is, why he's on earth, what the Reaper threat is, and then the story begins.

If you are a continuing player (have played either or both of the previous games) you already know the plot and character development because you helped form it with your previous play throughs and the story picks up after ME2.

I'm sorry you're disappointed, but I'm not completely sure why?

Are you really this dense? Or are you just willfully obtuse.  Jesus Christ, it's like the more we hear about this game, the more it seems like Bioware is trolling the fanbase.

[izmirtheastarach]

Why would anyone be disappointed by the fact that something they promoted as being in the game is not in fact in the game at all? It's seems like this is pretty easy to understand.

[Hunter of Legends]

JoePilot wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Gemini1179 wrote...

Then you're the kind of customer EA wants. No sense bogging players down with plot and character development when there are things to kill!

(Sorry I couldn't help it, I'm disappoineted at the opening- it's another bit of railroading and cut corners)

Ok, I know I'm a tool of the Man and all, but how so?

If you are a new player (haven't played ME1 or ME2) you learn who Shepard is, why he's on earth, what the Reaper threat is, and then the story begins.

If you are a continuing player (have played either or both of the previous games) you already know the plot and character development because you helped form it with your previous play throughs and the story picks up after ME2.

I'm sorry you're disappointed, but I'm not completely sure why?

Are you really this dense? Or are you just willfully obtuse.  Jesus Christ, it's like the more we hear about this game, the more it seems like Bioware is trolling the fanbase.

Removing the trial is hardly a bad thing.

[izmirtheastarach]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Removing the trial is hardly a bad thing.

That's your opinion, which is fine. Many people disagree, which is also fine.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 13 février 2012 - 07:56 .

[Hunter of Legends]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Removing the trial is hardly a bad thing.

That's your opinion, which is fine. Many people disagree, which is also fine.

Seems like once again a screaming minority.

A suspiciously similar screaming minority.

[streamlock]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

streamlock wrote...

I can't find it, but months ago I commented about the tragedy that Bioware's new official rulebook on gaming precludes having a lengthy exposition and that the trail would be at max 15 minutes before the new design mantra required something blow the frak up.

So....how far off the mark was I with the 15 minute max prediction?

15 minutes

This. Down to the last second. Not there. Zip. Zilch. Nada. Missing in action.

Wait a sec.-Like I said, I already set myself up for dissapoitment as far as any kind of interactive trial or lengthy exposition is concerned, but no 10 minute pre rendered sequence or anything?  Serious?

[Xerxes52]

I don't know, I would have liked to see a brief (3-5 minute) snippet of the trial, just to give context to the following scenes on Earth. There could have been some exposition of the past two games and why Shepard is on trial (for the new players and those who didn't play Arrival). They could have introduced Vega and maybe have Anderson rail against the tribunal (give new players a reason to like him, and also to hear Keith David chew up the scenery). And it could have been capped off with the tribunal stripping Shepard of his/her rank and being grounded, with one of the tribunal members tearing Shepard's officer pins from his/her vest.

Then BLAM!, Mass Effect 3 logo!

[Iakus]

Hunter of Legends wrote...


Seems like once again a screaming minority.

A suspiciously similar screaming minority.

Hey, don't look at me, I'm just calling it an annoyance, nothing more

[Hunter of Legends]

iakus wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...


Seems like once again a screaming minority.

A suspiciously similar screaming minority.

Hey, don't look at me, I'm just calling it an annoyance, nothing more

No, but the ones acting like Bioware just shot their mother and broadcasted it on national T.V. are oddly familar.

[CaptainZaysh]

Xerxes52 wrote...

I don't know, I would have liked to see a brief (3-5 minute) snippet of the trial, just to give context to the following scenes on Earth. There could have been some exposition of the past two games and why Shepard is on trial (for the new players and those who didn't play Arrival). They could have introduced Vega and maybe have Anderson rail against the tribunal (give new players a reason to like him, and also to hear Keith David chew up the scenery). And it could have been capped off with the tribunal stripping Shepard of his/her rank and being grounded, with one of the tribunal members tearing Shepard's officer pins from his/her vest.

Then BLAM!, Mass Effect 3 logo!

Then BLAM!  The Reapers invade!  And everybody thinks, hmm, that trial scene was kinda pointless.

[izmirtheastarach]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Seems like once again a screaming minority.

A suspiciously similar screaming minority.

I don't recall screaming at any point. Also, in this thread you seem to be the minority. Regardless, what is your point? Even if it's 10 people, are those ten people not allowed to discuss their disappointed? Seems like they are.

[Hunter of Legends]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Seems like once again a screaming minority.

A suspiciously similar screaming minority.

I don't recall screaming at any point. Also, in this thread you seem to be the minority. Regardless, what is your point? Even if it's 10 people, are those ten people not allowed to discuss their disappointed? Seems like they are.

Not when they act like Bioware just shot their mother and blew up their house.