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[Neverwinter_Knight77]

Copied and pasted from an E3 2011 video... This is why we're so confused:

Mass Effect 3 will begin with Commander Shepard on Earth for trial as a result of events from the Mass Effect 2 DLC pack Arrival. During the trial, Earth is attacked by Reapers.

Modifié par Neverwinter_Knight77, 13 février 2012 - 09:28 .

[insomniac13]

With ME2 Bioware listened to the fans, heard what they wanted and made a great game.

With ME3 it seems they just did whatever EA told them to. Yay?

[AK47 Total WAR]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

ME3's beginning was not confusing. It establishes Shepard's connection to the Reapers (hence everyone's interest in him), it establishes that he was grounded (hence his reinstatement and the fact that he's been confined in a room for what seems to be a while) and it establishes what the Reapers are capable of (namely cutting through the entirety of Earth's defences). Of course new players won't know Shepard's relationship with Anderson or Vega. Its implied they know each other and seem to get along, but there's no need to go into each characters back story in the first ten minutes of a 30 hour game. 

Consider ME1. They introduce Shepard, a paragraph or two on back story, then cut to a conversation about drift between three people we don't know, followed by Shepard talking to even more people the player doesn't know. The game doesn't tell us anything about Shepard's relationship with Joker, Kaidan, Anderson, Chakwas, Presley, Jenkins or Nihlus, it just tells us most of their jobs. Anyone genuinely confused by ME3's beginning would've hated ME1's opening.

Filling the player in on what they've missed will presumably come later. We're going to spend a lot of time on the Normandy, so its hardly a stretch to imagine that talking to the crew and squaddies will fill in most of the story. We don't need to be given it in the first few minutes. A trial would've been nice, but I don't get the people complaining that the game doesn't open with masses of exposition. There's plenty of time for that. 

This.

----------

And I don't really understand how people are complaining that Vega and Shep are "acting like they're old buddies".  How?  All I'm seeing is Vega being respectful to Shep.  I'm not seeing them drinking beers and reminiscing about the "good ol' days".

Modifié par AK47 Total WAR, 13 février 2012 - 09:42 .

[inversevideo]

kylecouch wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

in fact...according to Anderson...there never WAS a trial of any kind to begin with.

Yeah, I've pointed that out a couple of times. "If you were any other soldier, you could have been tried, court-martialed, and discharged". So...I wasn't tried? This is why I'm having trouble believing what I'm being told. Because I was told the end of the trial is in the demo, but then the demo is telling me there was no trial.

Yea...guess Hackett had no idea what he was talking about...

I can understand why some folks are disappointed that there is no trial.

But the way I interpret this is that the Alliance actually believes exactly what Shepard has been saying; possibly as a result of Dr. Kenson's work, in Arrival, and the fact that TIM practically beggarred Cerberus' coffers, and not just for giggles, to bring Shepard back because they needed an edge over the Reapers or 'game over'.

The demo makes it clear, in the beginning, just how serious the Alliance takes the threat (have to be careful not to spoil), but see the opening sequence re the 'listening post'.

I think folks are a bit perturbed because after 2 games of Shepard not being taken seriously they want that 'I told you so' moment.  I think that is still coming for Shepard, just not on Earth, but on the Citidel.

I suspect (hope) that there will be a nice moment, when the council (particularly a certain Turian councilor) will have to eat a bit of 'humble pie'.  

Modifié par inversevideo, 13 février 2012 - 09:40 .

[Feanor_II]

Neverwinter_Knight77 wrote...

Copied and pasted from an E3 2011 video... This is why we're so confused:

Mass Effect 3 will begin with Commander Shepard on Earth for trial as a result of events from the Mass Effect 2 DLC pack Arrival. During the trial, Earth is attacked by Reapers.

Yeah, that's it, I never expected "Phoenix Wright Effect" from that, ÇI always understood that the trial was going to be a short dialogue at best, why?:
1) The trial per se does not add anything to the plot development
2) For me a trial ala "Phoenix Wright" or an interrogationlike in "L.A. Noire"..... I didn't see that fitting on ME3...... Discover things about the Reapers, organize the war....... that's what I expected.

As I said a conversation like in "A Few Good Men" could be cool, but I never imagined that on a game like ME, I had no expectations about it.

[izmirtheastarach]

AK47 Total WAR wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

ME3's beginning was not confusing. It establishes Shepard's connection to the Reapers (hence everyone's interest in him), it establishes that he was grounded (hence his reinstatement and the fact that he's been confined in a room for what seems to be a while) and it establishes what the Reapers are capable of (namely cutting through the entirety of Earth's defences). Of course new players won't know Shepard's relationship with Anderson or Vega. Its implied they know each other and seem to get along, but there's no need to go into each characters back story in the first ten minutes of a 30 hour game. 

Consider ME1. They introduce Shepard, a paragraph or two on back story, then cut to a conversation about drift between three people we don't know, followed by Shepard talking to even more people the player doesn't know. The game doesn't tell us anything about Shepard's relationship with Joker, Kaidan, Anderson, Chakwas, Presley, Jenkins or Nihlus, it just tells us most of their jobs. Anyone genuinely confused by ME3's beginning would've hated ME1's opening.

Filling the player in on what they've missed will presumably come later. We're going to spend a lot of time on the Normandy, so its hardly a stretch to imagine that talking to the crew and squaddies will fill in most of the story. We don't need to be given it in the first few minutes. A trial would've been nice, but I don't get the people complaining that the game doesn't open with masses of exposition. There's plenty of time for that. 

This.

I don't really disagre with with the fact the the intro works out fine, however the comparison to ME1 doesn't really work. In ME1 you can ask multiple characters about what is going on. You can ask both Chakwas and Pressly about Anderson. There is a lot more background info provided.

That being said, I am not a new player. I don't really care what the experience is like for new players.

This whole argument is only tangentially related to the initial topic of this thead. My only real issue with the intro is the fact that the trial isn't there.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 13 février 2012 - 09:46 .

[TheRevanchist]

inversevideo wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

in fact...according to Anderson...there never WAS a trial of any kind to begin with.

Yeah, I've pointed that out a couple of times. "If you were any other soldier, you could have been tried, court-martialed, and discharged". So...I wasn't tried? This is why I'm having trouble believing what I'm being told. Because I was told the end of the trial is in the demo, but then the demo is telling me there was no trial.

Yea...guess Hackett had no idea what he was talking about...

I can understand why some folks are disappointed that there is no trial.

But the way I interpret this is that the Alliance actually believes exactly what Shepard has been saying; possibly as a result of Dr. Kenson's work, in Arrival, and the fact that TIM practically beggarred Cerberus' coffers, and not just for giggles, to bring Shepard back because they needed an edge over the Reapers or 'game over'.

The demo makes it clear, in the beginning, just how serious the Alliance takes the threat (have to be careful not to spoil), but see the opening sequence re the 'listening post'.

I think folks are a bit perturbed because after 2 games of Shepard not being taken seriously they want that 'I told you so' moment.  I think that is still coming for Shepard, just not on Earth, but on the Citidel.

I suspect (hope) that there will be a nice moment, when the council (particularly a certain Turian councilor) will have to eat a bit of 'humble pie'.  

But see...heres the main point...we are not shown or told this...they just expect us to assume a great many things leading up to this scene. Making the player use their "imagination" to "fill in the blanks" is NOT proper story telling. There was a link in this thread in the early pages that linked to the infamous Prequal reviews of Star Wars. The Bioware strategy is the same Lucas used for those movies...which is to Tell us...rather than show us. But ironiclly they don't tell a whole lot eaither, so they fail on both accounts. Instead we are reduced to having to invent our own interpritations of things which may or may not be correct. Never...at any point in a proper story...should a reader/ player have to assume or invent their own conclusions. It is the job of the author to create the story for us to experience, instead of having to do their job for them in order to enjoy their product. I personally feel if you at any point...have to invent or assume a part of someone else's story for it to make sense...then the author has failed in his task.

[CannotCompute]

Without the trial, it feels like there's a gap in the storyline.

Doesn't even have to last long. Just 2 minutes of trial footage would be enough.

[izmirtheastarach]

CannotCompute wrote...

Without the trial, it feels like there's a gap in the storyline.

Doesn't even have to last long. Just 2 minutes of trial footage would be enough.

Even if they were brining Shep back into the hearing room to pass judgement on him, that would be more then what we get.

[CannotCompute]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

CannotCompute wrote...

Without the trial, it feels like there's a gap in the storyline.

Doesn't even have to last long. Just 2 minutes of trial footage would be enough.

Even if they were brining Shep back into the hearing room to pass judgement on him, that would be more then what we get.

Yeah, just the conclusion. It would make a lot of people happy.

[TheRevanchist]

Instead we go from "Your gonna take heat for this Shepard, this problem isn't going away. People will not be happy about this." To "Oh hey there Shep...uh btw...how bout some advice for these Reapers we believe in all of a sudden? You know...since we totaly didn't put you on trial and gave you lots of good food and a soft bed to sleep in with a kick ass view?"

[DashRunner92]

The trial definitely would not be in the demo. I hope it's still in the full game, but I don't know why anyone would think they would put a dialogue heavy scene into a demo. The point of a demo is to get a feel of the game play and attract new players.

[GreenSoda]

CannotCompute wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

CannotCompute wrote...

Without the trial, it feels like there's a gap in the storyline.

Doesn't even have to last long. Just 2 minutes of trial footage would be enough.

Even if they were brining Shep back into the hearing room to pass judgement on him, that would be more then what we get.

Yeah, just the conclusion. It would make a lot of people happy.

Well either way, it's too late now. If the demo beginning is identical to the main version (as stated by Chris) than that's how it is.

[izmirtheastarach]

DashRunner92 wrote...

The trial definitely would not be in the demo. I hope it's still in the full game, but I don't know why anyone would think they would put a dialogue heavy scene into a demo. The point of a demo is to get a feel of the game play and attract new players.

It's not. This has been confirmed in very clear language. The intro is the same in the demo as it is in the game.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 13 février 2012 - 10:08 .

[Agamo45]

It was probably too much dialogue and not enough shooting to satisfy BW's new audience.

[Iakus]

kylecouch wrote...

Instead we go from "Your gonna take heat for this Shepard, this problem isn't going away. People will not be happy about this." To "Oh hey there Shep...uh btw...how bout some advice for these Reapers we believe in all of a sudden? You know...since we totaly didn't put you on trial and gave you lots of good food and a soft bed to sleep in with a kick ass view?"

Look at it this way it beats :

"I'm gonna find a way to stop the Reapers!"

KABOOM!

"What happened?"
"You've been dead for two years"
"Cool"

Modifié par iakus, 13 février 2012 - 10:28 .

[izmirtheastarach]

iakus wrote...

Look at it this way it beats :

"I'm gonna find a way to stop the Reapers!"

KABOOM!

"What happened?"
"You've been dead for two years"
"Cool"

Does it? Apparently my Shepard has been out of my sight for 6 months, and doing all kinds of things. How can that be? I control Shepard. At least when he was dead I didn't miss anything.

[TheRevanchist]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

iakus wrote...

Look at it this way it beats :

"I'm gonna find a way to stop the Reapers!"

KABOOM!

"What happened?"
"You've been dead for two years"
"Cool"

Does it? Apparently my Shepard has been out of my sight for 6 months, and doing all kinds of things. How can that be? I control Shepard. At least when he was dead I didn't miss anything.

This...I actually dont mind the ME2 opening...

[Iakus]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Does it? Apparently my Shepard has been out of my sight for 6 months, and doing all kinds of things. How can that be? I control Shepard. At least when he was dead I didn't miss anything.

It is because at least we know something came out of Arrival, even if we didn't get to see it.  Shepard's been beached and appears to be in some kind of protective custody, even if no formal court martial took place.  No, it's not ideal that we don't get to see what happened, I for one would have enjoyed at least observing a hearing take place.  But it sure beats dropping a plot-hammer, bolt-from-the-blue reset button 

[Squallypo]

kylecouch wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

iakus wrote...

Look at it this way it beats :

"I'm gonna find a way to stop the Reapers!"

KABOOM!

"What happened?"
"You've been dead for two years"
"Cool"

Does it? Apparently my Shepard has been out of my sight for 6 months, and doing all kinds of things. How can that be? I control Shepard. At least when he was dead I didn't miss anything.

This...I actually dont mind the ME2 opening...

same ME2 opening was nice , i did preffer by far ME1 but still ME 2 was really nice so i dont see anything bad with it

[whiskey vein]

I am starting to get really tired of Bioware. They are(used to be) a really great name to see on the case of a game, but lately their word seems to have hardly any value. Several things were went back on the SWTOR game that they said would be in or wouldn't happen, such as the grace period for people with games being shipped to them. And with ME3 they stated in their FAQ for the demo (I believe it was there) that the demo would be out in January and now it is coming out mid February. Not too big of a deal, but dissappointments none the less.

Now one of the most important (IMO) things to start out with in ME3 that they said would be so, appears to have been taken out. Now we don't know this for sure but things sure seem to appear that way. Hopefully not, I think a lot if not most ME fans would want to see/take part in that trial.

Bioware, if the trial is indeed out, please fill in all the holes and do so well, not just a quick throw-in such as scrolling text saying: "Shepard was on trial for (events of Arrival) and in this trial this and this happened which led to him/her being grounded. Then he met this guy, his name is James."

Edit: Forgot to add a couple things, for one, those that never played/payed for Arrival? Second, I myself just got and played Arrival, now knowing what happened makes me extremely eager to see said trial.

Modifié par whiskey vein, 13 février 2012 - 10:46 .

[Iakus]

Squallypo wrote...

same ME2 opening was nice , i did preffer by far ME1 but still ME 2 was really nice so i dont see anything bad with it

Eh to my mind (assuming the intro in the demo is complete)

ME1>ME3>>>>>>ME2

[TheRevanchist]

iakus wrote...

Squallypo wrote...

same ME2 opening was nice , i did preffer by far ME1 but still ME 2 was really nice so i dont see anything bad with it

Eh to my mind (assuming the intro in the demo is complete)

ME1>ME3>>>>>>ME2

See to me...the difference is I understand what exactly bioware was trying to with that opening. I think aside from the obvious "reboot Shepard" mechanic they were trying to show that the threat is real...the enemy is indeed powerful and not to be underestimated. That even the almighty Commander Shepard can lose. in this is regard I feel they succeeded...at least at first. I think the event and implications itself was good and impressed me. But they lost me when they 1...failed to think of a GOOD reason for Shepard's return. 2...totally failed at following up on The Collector's ominousness that they established in the first 10 minutes.

[Iakus]

kylecouch wrote...

See to me...the difference is I understand what exactly bioware was trying to with that opening. I think aside from the obvious "reboot Shepard" mechanic they were trying to show that the threat is real...the enemy is indeed powerful and not to be underestimated. That even the almighty Commander Shepard can lose. in this is regard I feel they succeeded...at least at first. I think the event and implications itself was good and impressed me. But they lost me when they 1...failed to think of a GOOD reason for Shepard's return. 2...totally failed at following up on The Collector's ominousness that they established in the first 10 minutes.

Meh the death thing was way over the top for me and turned a tense scene into a joke.

But with ME3, we see that Shepard did indeed do what Hackett said and "took the hit"  We don't see the hit being taken, true, but at least it wasn't taken up to 11.  

No cyberzombie=better than ME2 opening:lol:

[JSwisha]

iakus wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

Instead we go from "Your gonna take heat for this Shepard, this problem isn't going away. People will not be happy about this." To "Oh hey there Shep...uh btw...how bout some advice for these Reapers we believe in all of a sudden? You know...since we totaly didn't put you on trial and gave you lots of good food and a soft bed to sleep in with a kick ass view?"

Look at it this way it beats :

"I'm gonna find a way to stop the Reapers!"

KABOOM!

"What happened?"
"You've been dead for two years"
"Cool"

You get to actually see how Shepard dies though. In ME3, you don't get to see Shepard being relieved of duty or the Normandy being taken away. Instead, you are left to come up with your own conclusions as to why these events occurred. Even in ME2 before you get spaced, the paragraph text brings everyone up to speed on what you are doing after ME1. At the very least (since there is no trial), I'd like for the paragraph text to acknowledge what has transpired in the longer gap between ME2 and ME3.