2915 réponses à ce sujet

[Dragoonlordz]

Dreadwing 67 wrote...

Terror, do you live to hate and rant?

Dread do you live to add 'nothing' to any discussions?

[Dreadwing 67]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Dreadwing 67 wrote...

Terror, do you live to hate and rant?

Dread do you live to add 'nothing' to any discussions?

47 pages of this, doubt there's anything I can add that hasn't been said. Oh wait was that an insult at me:huh:

[Dragoonlordz]

Dreadwing 67 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Dreadwing 67 wrote...

Terror, do you live to hate and rant?

Dread do you live to add 'nothing' to any discussions?

47 pages of this, doubt there's anything I can add that hasn't been said. Oh wait was that an insult at me:huh:

No more so than yours to him or her.

[Dreadwing 67]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Dreadwing 67 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Dreadwing 67 wrote...

Terror, do you live to hate and rant?

Dread do you live to add 'nothing' to any discussions?

47 pages of this, doubt there's anything I can add that hasn't been said. Oh wait was that an insult at me:huh:

No more so than yours to him or her.

:police:cheers

[izmirtheastarach]

Les_Carver wrote...

Completely agreed. To be fair, I don't think the intro in the demo isn't exactly bad, but the actual trial deal could've worked way better as the intro for ME3. That way you'd remember your actions by defending yourself and then the reapers arrive and ruin everything, but cleaning your name on the other hand, WHICH, would lead you te be reinstated and bla bla...

There could be some reasons as to why this idea got simplified to the demo sequence, but it sounds like a mistake to me.

Right. For you and me, whether we liked the intro isn't really the issue. We also liked the idea of the trial. And we're disappointed that it's not in the game.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 14 février 2012 - 03:32 .

[Terror_K]

Dreadwing 67 wrote...

Terror, do you live to hate and rant?

No. I'm just sick of seeing my once favourite game IP getting gradually ruined for the sake of pandering to an already overcatered for audience I'm sick of seeing being pandered to. I don't want Mass Effect 3 to be "Dragon Age 2 In Space" just so the new guys aren't confused or put off by too many of the factors I personally enjoy about BioWare games.

People ask me sometimes, "why do you rarely comment on the things they do well?" The basic reasoning is, that I will usually once, then let it be, because beyond that there's usually more than enough people raving about the good factors of the game, so they're likely going to be returning anyway. Positive change, learning from mistakes and innovation comes from constructive criticism, not from adulation. I'll clap and praise when BioWare does something right and leave it and that, but I'll try and drill it into them when I feel they've made a mistake. And the overall problem is, lately I feel they've been making a lot of mistakes. And this intro seems one of them.

I said a while ago that unless ME3 felt very gratifying as far as things like import decisions, varied variations, writing and exploration and sidequests go then I'll be frowning at BioWare for things like Kinect support , multiplayer, special melee attacks and pandering to new players when more time and resources could have gone to these things that I, personally, feel matter far more for the final part of the trilogy. And if this truly is the introduction of the game in pretty much its entirety, then I can already see one part of the game that's suffered and is lacking, and I'm already frowning directly at those factors I listed above before I've even got the game. Not a good start... in more ways than one.

[Dragoonlordz]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Les_Carver wrote...

Completely agreed. To be fair, I don't think the intro in the demo isn't exactly bad, but the actual trial deal could've worked way better as the intro for ME3. That way you'd remember your actions by defending yourself and then the reapers arrive and ruin everything, but cleaning your name on the other hand, WHICH, would lead you te be reinstated and bla bla...

There could be some reasons as to why this idea got simplified to the demo sequence, but it sounds like a mistake to me.

Right. For you and me, whether we liked the intro isn't really the issue. We also liked the idea of the trial. And we're disappointed that it's not in the game.

Agreed. The lack of actual trial where can defend yourself and your actions was something I was looking forward to doing and that hope has been taken and smashed. Apart from that the only other major gripe I had with the demo was serious lack of dialogue choices shown and I really dislike how much they force the automated responses shown via the demo.

My biggest fear/concern for the game is the level that is at through out the entire game being same as demo where only once in blue moon you get to express your 'persona' developed for own Shepard from past two titles and most of time it is their canon Shepard automated variety in use. This I won't be able to know for sure until actual game comes out but relying on the demo as example of what to expect does not fill me with glee over that specific issue.

The trial was my own personal desire to take part in and ended up with just disappointment was not able to do so. The other aspect is a major concern for me as we can only go on two things which is what PR says, and what we have actually played and experienced ourselves. The PR as shown with DA2 is less than to be desired and I do not expect much different with ME3 regarding what they tell us compared to what we actually get. So I do rely more on the demo as example of what to expect than something I cannot see or play coming from PR which for all intent and purpose is only saying things to try to make more sales whether true or not.

Those two aspects are the only things I felt negative about the demo, disappointment about lack of trial and large concern over their heavy use of automated responses that so far have seen and experienced.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 14 février 2012 - 03:29 .

[tangalin]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Gemini1179 wrote...

Then you're the kind of customer EA wants. No sense bogging players down with plot and character development when there are things to kill!

(Sorry I couldn't help it, I'm disappoineted at the opening- it's another bit of railroading and cut corners)

Ok, I know I'm a tool of the Man and all, but how so?

If you are a new player (haven't played ME1 or ME2) you learn who Shepard is, why he's on earth, what the Reaper threat is, and then the story begins.

If you are a continuing player (have played either or both of the previous games) you already know the plot and character development because you helped form it with your previous play throughs and the story picks up after ME2.

I'm sorry you're disappointed, but I'm not completely sure why?

Because there is no trial in the demo. There is walking in a hallway, then being informed the reapers are here. Since you are so adamant the trial is there, could you point it out to us?

[Dreadwing 67]

Terror_K wrote...

Dreadwing 67 wrote...

Terror, do you live to hate and rant?

 I don't want Mass Effect 3 to be "Dragon Age 2 In Space" just so the new guys aren't confused or put off by too many of the factors I personally enjoy about BioWare games.

I understand now. I hope for the both of us that this game is one for the ages and the best game we ever play.

But I will turn bitter if it is a major flop.

[Iakus]

Il Divo wrote...

iakus wrote...

And here's the crux of it.  We don't know.  We have no idea how much exposition Shepard will be given about events in the first two games.  I do know that Shepard being a "brick" was a big complaint about the second game, and there were statements that this will be addressed.  Maybe this will happen.  Maybe not.  

But would you agree with me if I said that if Shepard did get the degree of exposition the Exile had throughout KOTOR2, it would be worth, or at least make up for, not having a trial at the beginning?

Based on that conditional? It's difficult to say. Tentatively, I'd say yes, but that for ME3 to achieve that level of exposition would come at great expense at the series' focus.

Remember, KotOR 2's narrative was entirely character-driven. Pretty much every plot point that happens, from the beginning to the climax, including every character conversation with those on your ship,revolved around that this one event which your character had been a part of and its consequences.
 
I just don't see Bioware having the resources to accurately represent the trial in the aftermath in addition to exploring other topics, especially in comparison to witnessing the event itself, which has had build up since ME1 began culminating in Arrival.

Well, we've been assured that this is the game that "goes nuts with the consequences" so presumably Shepard's actions from both games and the DLC will resonate throughout the game for those who played teh previous installments.

Maybe Bioware will fall on its face on this, and the lack of a trial is just the tip of the iceberg.  Maybe this will be Dragon Age 2 in Space.  Or maybe this will be KOTOR 2 Done Right.  It's really too soon to tell.  The lack of a hearing at the beginning of the game is simply one disappointing detail.

This is a serious switch, I'm typically the pessimist in these debates 

[Dreadwing 67]

tangalin wrote...


Because there is no trial in the demo. There is walking in a hallway, then being informed the reapers are here. Since you are so adamant the trial is there, could you point it out to us?

A military trial is one that can last a very long time. What everyone and myself was wanting was a hearing. We see the trial as it is, but no actual defense or any such is actually taking place. I think Bioware was very unclear about what the trial was, or scrapped the Hearing.

Another possibility is we will get the hearing in the full game, I don't know.

[realguile]

Dreadwing 67 wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

Dreadwing 67 wrote...

Terror, do you live to hate and rant?

 I don't want Mass Effect 3 to be "Dragon Age 2 In Space" just so the new guys aren't confused or put off by too many of the factors I personally enjoy about BioWare games.

I understand now. I hope for the both of us that this game is one for the ages and the best game we ever play.

But I will turn bitter if it is a major flop.

Just lower your expectations. I find it works better if yuo don't ecpect too much from the developers since "fans" want things that can't be done and developers promise things that their ass can't deliver. So just enjoy it as a time wasting game and don't give it too much thought.

If they burn you then make a decision not to support them any longer and get like minded people to do the same.

[xlI ReFLeX lIx]

***POST CONTAINS ME3 OPENNING SPOILERS***

If the openning of the game is the openning of the demo (nothing else before) I will be disapointed. While I know what's going on because I've been on these forums I know that the events of Arrival direct what happends at the begginning of ME3. I know that Shepard has a trial and is no longuer an Alliance marine.

..but other players? I don't know. I mean, lets be honnest.. not EVERYONE has played Arrival... because its DLC!! Same with LotSB.. I have friends who never come on BSN, haven't played LotSB and/or Arrival but love Mass Effect! Not everyone has extra cash to spend on Microsoft Points.

Now let's see the game from their perspective... ME2 ends with the Collector's defeated, Shepard tells TIM to shove it, then looks out into the empty void of space which then transitions to a shot of the Reapers approching the galaxy. Now when players like that start ME3 they see the Normandy repainted, the entire ME2 squad split, Shepard on earth and the Reapers who just "bam!" attack! It wasn't even to clear that Shepard was no longuer part of the Alliance untill Aderson throws him his dog tags.. I player who hasn't played Arrival and read up on things can kind of suspect that Shepard is no loguer an Alliance marine but there isn't a direct confirmation in ME3. Hell for all I know, the dog tags Anderson throws him/her were Sheps old dog tags from before the Lazarus Project.

I'm sorry but I do not like the openning as is.. it's simply not enough. I would've really rathered to see Shepards trial so we actually know what's going on.

Just watch the ending of Mass Effect 2, then the Mass Effect 3 demo... makes absolutely no sense at all!!

Modifié par xlI ReFLeX lIx, 14 février 2012 - 03:34 .

[jeweledleah]

didn't Silverman say a while ago (like one of the earlier interviews months and months ago) that they removed the trial because giving all these choices to new players was confusing and for old players it would be more of a reminder of the choices, then actual trial?

it would have been great if trial stayed in. but the most I'm hoping for is the outline of major choices, when picking import save.

[Dreadwing 67]

realguile wrote...

Dreadwing 67 wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

Dreadwing 67 wrote...

Terror, do you live to hate and rant?

 I don't want Mass Effect 3 to be "Dragon Age 2 In Space" just so the new guys aren't confused or put off by too many of the factors I personally enjoy about BioWare games.

I understand now. I hope for the both of us that this game is one for the ages and the best game we ever play.

But I will turn bitter if it is a major flop.

Just lower your expectations. I find it works better if yuo don't ecpect too much from the developers since "fans" want things that can't be done and developers promise things that their ass can't deliver. So just enjoy it as a time wasting game and don't give it too much thought.

If they burn you then make a decision not to support them any longer and get like minded people to do the same.

I have no high expectations, well as long as its better than ME2. I am hoping to enjoy the game despite any doubts raised here or the doubts I have now.

As for DA2 arguments, or even worse is CoD:sick:, I do hope people will let the game determine their opinion, not this pre-release anxiety.

[Comsky159]

Dreadwing 67 wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

Dreadwing 67 wrote...

Terror, do you live to hate and rant?

 I don't want Mass Effect 3 to be "Dragon Age 2 In Space" just so the new guys aren't confused or put off by too many of the factors I personally enjoy about BioWare games.

I understand now. I hope for the both of us that this game is one for the ages and the best game we ever play.

But I will turn bitter if it is a major flop.

I just wish Bioware could shake off the poisonous, blood-sucking corporate parasite that is EA.

Modifié par Comsky159, 14 février 2012 - 03:33 .

[Il Divo]

iakus wrote...

This is a serious switch, I'm typically the pessimist in these debates 

Haha, I'm glad I'm not the only one who picked up on that. We should do this more often. Opposite day, we'll call it.

[izmirtheastarach]

Dreadwing 67 wrote...

A military trial is one that can last a very long time. What everyone and myself was wanting was a hearing. We see the trial as it is, but no actual defense or any such is actually taking place. I think Bioware was very unclear about what the trial was, or scrapped the Hearing.

Another possibility is we will get the hearing in the full game, I don't know.

Hearing, trial, inquest, whatever. I was looking forward to some bureaucrat telling Shep he did the wrong thing, and Shep defending himself. Just a couple of lines and a choice or two would be fine. Just....something. Some acknowledgement of the fact that Shepard ended the lives of 300,000 sentients. I didn't think it was weird to expect an action that serious to have equally serious consequences.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 14 février 2012 - 03:37 .

[Dragoonlordz]

xlI ReFLeX lIx wrote...

***POST CONTAINS ME3 OPENNING SPOILERS***

If the openning of the game is the openning of the demo (nothing else before) I will be disapointed. While I know what's going on because I've been on these forums I know that the events of Arrival direct what happends at the begginning of ME3. I know that Shepard has a trial and is no longuer an Alliance marine.

..but other players? I don't know. I mean, lets be honnest.. not EVERYONE has played Arrival... because its DLC!! Same with LotSB.. I have friends who never come on BSN, haven't played LotSB and/or Arrival but love Mass Effect! Not everyone has extra cash to spend on Microsoft Points.

Now let's see the game from their perspective... ME2 ends with the Collector's defeated, Shepard tells TIM to shove it, then looks out into the empty void of space which then transitions to a shot of the Reapers approching the galaxy. Now when players like that start ME3 they see the Normandy repainted, the entire ME2 squad split, Shepard on earth and the Reapers who just "bam!" attack! It wasn't even to clear that Shepard was no longuer part of the Alliance untill Aderson throws him his dog tags.. I player who hasn't played Arrival and read up on things can kind of suspect that Shepard is no loguer an Alliance marine but there isn't a direct confirmation in ME3. Hell for all I know, the dog tags Anderson throws him/her were Sheps old dog tags from before the Lazarus Project.

I'm sorry but I do not like the openning as is.. it's simply not enough. I would've really rathered to see Shepards trial so we actually know what's going on.

Just watch the ending of Mass Effect 2, then the Mass Effect 3 demo... makes absolutely no sense at all!!

I have no idea whos tags they were, my Shepard already had his tags from the end of ME2 which got back from Liara so unless someone stole them I don't see why Anderson would have them in first place.

[Immortanius]

I still think we're being fed misleading information. So what if Priestly says the trial won't be in the game? They're not going to tell us what exactly is going on for spoiler-related reasons. Remain optimistic. We'll all see the REAL intro in just three more weeks.

[Gemini1179]

I'm absolutely hoping that those who import games will get a bit of a special 'prologue' before the opening as seen in the demo. Something to explain how the connection from this game to the last feels so much less organic than the connection from ME2 to ME1.

But I'm not holding my breath.

[TMA LIVE]

I don't buy this whole "New players won't get it or makes it too long for them" argument.

The game is suppose to be "different" based off your choices.

They could simply have the intro as is for new players, while importers who played Arrival get a trial scene. Or more references to Shepard going on trial.

This isn't impossibly or too expensive. You could only convince me it is if not that many players played Arrival.

As for "The Arrival being stopped as canon", you could always say Hackett sent someone else who did the job for you for those who didn't do it.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 14 février 2012 - 03:43 .

[izmirtheastarach]

Immortanius wrote...

I still think we're being fed misleading information. So what if Priestly says the trial won't be in the game? They're not going to tell us what exactly is going on for spoiler-related reasons. Remain optimistic. We'll all see the REAL intro in just three more weeks.

I think that's a little ridiculous. Why wouldn't he just refuse to answer? This is all a trick, is it? If it is, it's one of the dumbest marketing stunts I've ever heard of. "Hey everyone, a thing you were looking forward to in our game is the in our game. But our game now plase?". Don't think anyone would do that, really.

I take Chris at his word. The intro we are seeing in the demo is the intro that is in the game.

[txgoldrush]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Wow, fan whining and stupidity has just gone into overdrive....

The intro was fine, and fans are not listening when Bioware says there will be more dialogue choices in the actual game.

When has there been a rule where A) The character has to be properly introduced the first time you see him or her or if the character knows, the player should know.

1. Wait there isn't........do Witcher 2 players complain about not really knowing Vernon or Ves in the first 5 minutes of the game? No. They are introduced now and fleshed out later. And it beats the amnesia stupidity of the first game. Same thing with Vega, the player may not know him but Shep does, which is fine, as long as they develop and establish him later. Hell, its BETTER they do it later, as you know, a sparring scene establishment can do more for the story than a forced establishment during a more urgent situation, like Shep going to the admirality board at the beginning.

2. The trial simply does not work, its a pacing killer, and thats probably why it was cut We already had a trial in the series, two actually, there doesn't need to be another one...

3. As for Bioware playing to the CoD crowd by getting to the "splosions", oh wait, unlike it most games, the games "splosions" have substance to them, like people dying, like the child in the beginning. Nevermind the fact that each "spolsion" in the opening means more lives lost. This is another idiot fanboy rant.

4. And really, you fans should learn to play by ITS RULES and not YOUR RULES. No wonder why people hate DAII's story, because they treat it like a traditional RPG story when its not. It CAN have the opening it did. Why? Because its a frame story..it wasn't Hawke's story, its Varric's version of Hawke's story. While there are problems with DAII's story, mostly in mage class and mage sided games, the story has far more substance and originality than the hiughly overrated and cliched DAO.

5. And really those pining for old Bioware, to hell with that old tired recycled formula of the same old plots and character cliches, and to hell with all those one dimensional personalities. Lets try new ways of storytelling and characterization and have more subtle three dimensional characters.

1., Yes they did or have you got selective memory.

2. Yes it does, it adds to immersion, there was no need for reapers to attack right from the offset, there was no need for that level or urgency. An axtra 5 or 10 minute trial would not destroy immersion or pacing as the pacing would pick up when attack not when turn on your console or press start. It could of kicked off the reaper attack at end of trial after 5 minutes of "actual" dialogue choices and would not destroy pacing at all because they would not have launched their attack yet.

3. Crossing the line from RP to corridor shooter was what people hated to begin with, the demo does nothing to change this impression of "increase RPG elements" promised. As for the underlined bit you clearly have no grasp at what "fanboy" means and your ranting post about others who are making less ranting posts just makes you look like the silly one here. Others did not feel the need to insult others especially to the degree you feel you are entitled to.

4. DA2 story was very badly told and done and the method they used to relay it was also tacky. The story was one of the worst Bioware have ever done regarding how they expressed it. From missing years to bondage style gameplay where you may as well be watching a film because you have ****** all effect on everything around you.

5. That 'tired old formula' is what made Bioware a huge success and a world renowned RPG developer not the hash jobs they have done of late where players become guinea pigs for their badly executed gaming experiments.

1. Oh wait, no they didn't. There was no real complaint about how the new characters were introduced and in fact Vernon Roche, Ves, and Iorveth, as well as Letho were universially praised..

2. However a trial breaks pacing and will seem forced through lack of evidence. Also the trial would have been meaningless if the Reapers attacked while they were having it. Also, why rehash the smae stuff over again when an intro comic may do the same, beating a dead horse. Also the first two games had trials, no need to recycle this.

3. If people hated it so much, than why is ME2 more ciritically acclaimed and far more awarded than the first game? Not every RPG has to be traditional. Its common sense, its the vocal minority that whines about ME2, not the majority who actually enjoyed the game. I would take a corridor shooter (which ME1 kind of was as well, in a clunky way) over derp derp dice roll combat that tries to be both a traditional RPG and a shooter while failing at both while having hundereds of vendor trash and lack of balance.

4. Except for the first Act and the mage endgame, the story in DAII was fine. It was the fans that were the problem. It was far more complex than Standrard Role Playing Scenario One which the first game was and DAO was far from told well. The gameplay and world building, it was bad, but the writing mostly was great. And the frame story was far from tacky.

5. Nevermind this experimentalism made ME2 their most critically acclaimed game of all time and their most awarded. Nevermind they were criticized harshly when DAO came out of following the same formula over and over again. See Hellforge Bioware Cliche Chart. Oh, nevermind that in 1985, originality and experiementalism sparked the entire genre with Ultima IV, which helped influence Bioware to make games. Hell I take the character quests and three dimenisonal characters of "New Bioware" over the one dimensional talking codex entries of "Old Bioware".

[Dragoonlordz]

They should of just kept trial for RPG and Story modes and dropped it for Action mode (imho).