2915 réponses à ce sujet

[hex23]

Whether or not you "get" what he's saying is irrelevant. The fact is, Bioware has done this exact same thing in the past, in one of their most cherished games, and nobody complained. Whether or not you played the games or "get" what he's saying has nothing to do with anything.

The fact that I have to explain this honestly makes it seem like people are itching for reasons to complain.

[Nashiktal]

Immortanius wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

I don't buy this whole "New players won't get it or makes it too long for them" argument.

The game is suppose to be "different" based off your choices.

They could simply have the intro as is for new players, while importers who played Arrival get a trial scene. Or more references to Shepard going on trial.

This is exactly my school of thought. It makes perfect sense going at it via this route. The demo could be specifically oriented at the new/non-imported Shepard, while those who import a completed save file from ME1&ME2 get some sort of trial scene that recaps ME1 & ME2.

Besides, they've said there will be a recap done differently than a comic. How else could a recap be done? It just makes sense that it would be done in some sort of trial form. We'll see.

I don't know, this intro is confusing as hell to me as a veteran, and my girlfriend was lost as hell watching me play the demo. (she doesn't know anything about mass effect.)

I just don't think bioware did great with the opening.

[v_Zalem]

I've always found the whole trial thing ridiculous, especially if you got your Spectre status back in ME2. "Oh we're gonna arrest you and all cause you killed 300,000 Batarians." If Shep's a Spectre doesn't he answer to the Council? What authority does the Alliance have over him? He could just tell them to "Fu(|< off", take the Normandy, and do his thing. For someone who disobeys the Council to get to Ilos to stop Saren, it just seems silly that Shepard would submit to the Alliance after all this time if he's a Spectre.

[izmirtheastarach]

v_Zalem wrote...

I've always found the whole trial thing ridiculous, especially if you got your Spectre status back in ME2. "Oh we're gonna arrest you and all cause you killed 300,000 Batarians." If Shep's a Spectre doesn't he answer to the Council? What authority does the Alliance have over him? He could just tell them to "Fu(|< off", take the Normandy, and do his thing. For someone who disobeys the Council to get to Ilos to stop Saren, it just seems silly that Shepard would submit to the Alliance after all this time if he's a Spectre.

I kind of agree with this as well. My Shep is a pure Paragon, but I still don't get why he can be "grounded" by the Alliance when he's a Spectre. Didn't get it when Udina did it, either.

[Il Divo]

hex23 wrote...

Whether or not you "get" what he's saying is irrelevant. The fact is, Bioware has done this exact same thing in the past, in one of their most cherished games, and nobody complained. Whether or not you played the games or "get" what he's saying has nothing to do with anything.

The fact that I have to explain this honestly makes it seem like people are itching for reasons to complain.

 I really don't care what other people did or did not complain about when Baldur's Gate came out. This isn't about their complaints; this is about mine.

Modifié par Il Divo, 14 février 2012 - 04:14 .

[TheRevanchist]

hex23 wrote...

Whether or not you "get" what he's saying is irrelevant. The fact is, Bioware has done this exact same thing in the past, in one of their most cherished games, and nobody complained. Whether or not you played the games or "get" what he's saying has nothing to do with anything.

The fact that I have to explain this honestly makes it seem like people are itching for reasons to complain.

Some random person telling us that no person in the entire world ever complained about that is hardly complelling proof...

[Dragoonlordz]

txgoldrush wrote...

No, it would not have worked...another pacing killer.

We do not need You do not want a long intro scene, just get to the game quickly and thats what ME3's intro is designed to do.

A trial would be redudant especially with an intro comic or system for new players.

Fixed. There is no "we" and there is no "not need". It is "You" and "not want".

[Mr. Gogeta34]

I think Bioware got overwhelmed and made something ultimately bigger than they could handle story-wise.

So some things I feel they'll either retcon or sweep under the rug of a 'general statement.'

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 14 février 2012 - 04:16 .

[TheRevanchist]

Il Divo wrote...

hex23 wrote...

Whether or not you "get" what he's saying is irrelevant. The fact is, Bioware has done this exact same thing in the past, in one of their most cherished games, and nobody complained. Whether or not you played the games or "get" what he's saying has nothing to do with anything.

The fact that I have to explain this honestly makes it seem like people are itching for reasons to complain.

 I really don't care what other people did or did not complain about when Baldur's Gate came out. This isn't about their complaints; this is about mine.

and this...ME3 is not BG...what ppl said about that game way back then has -nothing- to do with this game...at all.

[tishyw]

txgoldrush wrote...

tishyw wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Wow, fan whining and stupidity has just gone into overdrive....

The intro was fine, and fans are not listening when Bioware says there will be more dialogue choices in the actual game.

When has there been a rule where A) The character has to be properly introduced the first time you see him or her or if the character knows, the player should know.

Wait there isn't........do Witcher 2 players complain about not really knowing Vernon or Ves in the first 5 minutes of the game? No. They are introduced now and fleshed out later. And it beats the amnesia stupidity of the first game. Same thing with Vega, the player may not know him but Shep does, which is fine, as long as they develop and establish him later. Hell, its BETTER they do it later, as you know, a sparring scene establishment can do more for the story than a forced establishment during a more urgent situation, like Shep going to the admirality board at the beginning.

The trial simply does not work, its a pacing killer, and thats probably why it was cut We already had a trial in the series, two actually, there doesn't need to be another one...

As for Bioware playing to the CoD crowd by getting to the "splosions", oh wait, unlike it most games, the games "splosions" have substance to them, like people dying, like the child in the beginning. Nevermind the fact that each "spolsion" in the opening means more lives lost. This is another idiot fanboy rant.

And really, you fans should learn to play by ITS RULES and not YOUR RULES. No wonder why people hate DAII's story, because they treat it like a traditional RPG story when its not. It CAN have the opening it did. Why? Because its a frame story..it wasn't Hawke's story, its Varric's version of Hawke's story. While there are problems with DAII's story, mostly in mage class and mage sided games, the story has far more substance and originality than the hiughly overrated and cliched DAO.

And really those pining for old Bioware, to hell with that old tired recycled formula of the same old plots and character cliches, and to hell with all those one dimensional personalities. Lets try new ways of storytelling and characterization and have more subtle three dimensional characters.

Actually the trial could have been done really well if it was intercut with scenes of the Reapers approaching Earth.
A cut scene of the Reapers attacking Mars followed by peoples com-units starting going off and people in the court starting to mutter and get agitated.  Then a cut scene of the Reapers attacking the Moon bases, and more agitation in the court.  All this overlaid by Anderson and/or the VS defending Shepard's actions and the 'judge' or whoever trying to maintain order.
Finally we could get scenes of various Iconic buildings on Earth being destroyed by the Reapers followed by everyone in the court (except the main players obviously) getting messages and panicking, THEN the Reapers can attack the trial.

No, it would not have worked...another pacing killer.

We do no  need a long intro scene, just get to the game quickly and thats what ME3's intro is designed to do.

A trial would be redudant especially with an intro comic or system for new players.

Ahhh, okay, you're opinion is the only one that's valid I see.  I'll just leave you alone to play by yourself.

[TheRevanchist]

Another thing that bothers me...ppl seem to think the dialogue, characterization, choosing your responses. That all of these things and more are not "the game." that all of that is "pointless crap" that keeps us from "the game" aka the pews pews....so I think we can safely ignore this crowd...as it's obvious what they think "the game" is.

[txgoldrush]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

1. Oh wait, no they didn't. There was no real complaint about how the new characters were introduced and in fact Vernon Roche, Ves, and Iorveth, as well as Letho were universially praised..

2. However a trial breaks pacing and will seem forced through lack of evidence. Also the trial would have been meaningless if the Reapers attacked while they were having it. Also, why rehash the smae stuff over again when an intro comic may do the same, beating a dead horse. Also the first two games had trials, no need to recycle this.

3. If people hated it so much, than why is ME2 more ciritically acclaimed and far more awarded than the first game? Not every RPG has to be traditional. Its common sense, its the vocal minority that whines about ME2, not the majority who actually enjoyed the game. I would take a corridor shooter (which ME1 kind of was as well, in a clunky way) over derp derp dice roll combat that tries to be both a traditional RPG and a shooter while failing at both while having hundereds of vendor trash and lack of balance.

4. Except for the first Act and the mage endgame, the story in DAII was fine. It was the fans that were the problem. It was far more complex than Standrard Role Playing Scenario One which the first game was and DAO was far from told well. The gameplay and world building, it was bad, but the writing mostly was great. And the frame story was far from tacky.

5. Nevermind this experimentalism made ME2 their most critically acclaimed game of all time and their most awarded. Nevermind they were criticized harshly when DAO came out of following the same formula over and over again. See Hellforge Bioware Cliche Chart. Oh, nevermind that in 1985, originality and experiementalism sparked the entire genre with Ultima IV, which helped influence Bioware to make games. Hell I take the character quests and three dimenisonal characters of "New Bioware" over the one dimensional talking codex entries of "Old Bioware".

1. Yes they did, as said your selective memory does you a disservice. There was many who moaned about how they did not know anything about Triss unless played first or what Witchers were or why was with Hensalt and much, much more. It happened and they did, your pretending did not does not change this. I know for fact they did because I got into arguments with a lot of those moaning at time about lack of information and lore being explained at start of the game. Sorry to burst your bubble princess.

2. Subjective, personal preference. It would have add to the quality of the game and immersion to have, it adds to the character building and responding to actions of your past with new input coming from people have not met being the Alliance generals who are overseeing the trial. You would have gained new perspective and expanded on content from your past actions. A deep and rich story delves deeper into your actions and persona created, whether through past or current actions and your hissy fit and attacking those people who wished to take that route makes you look bad.

3. As was BF3 and CoD embedded with acclaim after acclaim but that does not mean I wish to see Bioware make a Battlefart 4 or Modern Wankfest 4. People have developers catering to that crowd. Shooters are dime a dozen and marketplace is flooded with linear corridor shooters, that is not what attracted most people to Bioware.

4. Your delusion is worrying, young padawan.

5. You proclaim the superiority of ME2 over ME1 because of critical acclaim and praise but then bash DAO which had a million times more of that than DA2 while at same time saying DA2 was superior... Your logic defies belief. There little experiments to the detriment of fans approval was the downfall of DA2 and your praising it like as you call them "fanboys" doesn't change this.

1. And they should have played the first game, I am talking about new characters...like the ones I listed for TW2 and for Vega in ME3. I have seen criticisms of Triss, but only her. Henselt was fine. And then once again, gamers do not want to play by the story's rules, just there own. And in fact Shani's intorduction in TW1 was forced in how she had to basically flesh herself out all in one moment.

2. And it can also break the pacing of the game. If the game does not needs it, or slows the game down when it should have a faster pace, it should not be in. You sometimes have to balance depth and story pacing and structure and cuts have to be made. And a 10-15 minute big cutscene is a terrible way to start a game....hell, heavily story driven FFVI and FFVII start with the action well before they explained everything.

3. So what were the major praise of ME2...lets see the charactert cast, traditional Bioware staple, and its much better combat system. You can cry BF or COD all you want, but in the end, a well executed shooter is far better than a poorly executed RPG. Its the whiny minority that thinks that RPGs always have to have traditional RPG elements.

4. So I am delusional for liking the story of DAII...lol. And really, there was many reviewers and fans that liked the story of DAII, like Gamespy who gave the game an 80.

5. Hell, when did I even say DAII was an overall better game than DAO? I said just its narrative. Way to make things up. Notice I criticized DAII's gameplay and world design?

Modifié par txgoldrush, 14 février 2012 - 04:23 .

[tishyw]

hex23 wrote...

Whether or not you "get" what he's saying is irrelevant. The fact is, Bioware has done this exact same thing in the past, in one of their most cherished games, and nobody complained. Whether or not you played the games or "get" what he's saying has nothing to do with anything.

The fact that I have to explain this honestly makes it seem like people are itching for reasons to complain.

Okay, we need to remember that the internet wasn't what it is now when BG and BG2 where released.  We're talking 1998 and 2000.

There were really no forums for people to be complaining on then.  For all we know folks were muttering curses about Bioware over their keyboards when BG2 was released, so to say no-one complained then is absolute fabrication.

[izmirtheastarach]

txgoldrush wrote...
A bunch of stuff

Can we please stop engaging this troll. Come on, people.

[Terror_K]

This is the only way the opening could be more rushed:

Modifié par Terror_K, 14 février 2012 - 04:25 .

[txgoldrush]

tishyw wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

tishyw wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Wow, fan whining and stupidity has just gone into overdrive....

The intro was fine, and fans are not listening when Bioware says there will be more dialogue choices in the actual game.

When has there been a rule where A) The character has to be properly introduced the first time you see him or her or if the character knows, the player should know.

Wait there isn't........do Witcher 2 players complain about not really knowing Vernon or Ves in the first 5 minutes of the game? No. They are introduced now and fleshed out later. And it beats the amnesia stupidity of the first game. Same thing with Vega, the player may not know him but Shep does, which is fine, as long as they develop and establish him later. Hell, its BETTER they do it later, as you know, a sparring scene establishment can do more for the story than a forced establishment during a more urgent situation, like Shep going to the admirality board at the beginning.

The trial simply does not work, its a pacing killer, and thats probably why it was cut We already had a trial in the series, two actually, there doesn't need to be another one...

As for Bioware playing to the CoD crowd by getting to the "splosions", oh wait, unlike it most games, the games "splosions" have substance to them, like people dying, like the child in the beginning. Nevermind the fact that each "spolsion" in the opening means more lives lost. This is another idiot fanboy rant.

And really, you fans should learn to play by ITS RULES and not YOUR RULES. No wonder why people hate DAII's story, because they treat it like a traditional RPG story when its not. It CAN have the opening it did. Why? Because its a frame story..it wasn't Hawke's story, its Varric's version of Hawke's story. While there are problems with DAII's story, mostly in mage class and mage sided games, the story has far more substance and originality than the hiughly overrated and cliched DAO.

And really those pining for old Bioware, to hell with that old tired recycled formula of the same old plots and character cliches, and to hell with all those one dimensional personalities. Lets try new ways of storytelling and characterization and have more subtle three dimensional characters.

Actually the trial could have been done really well if it was intercut with scenes of the Reapers approaching Earth.
A cut scene of the Reapers attacking Mars followed by peoples com-units starting going off and people in the court starting to mutter and get agitated.  Then a cut scene of the Reapers attacking the Moon bases, and more agitation in the court.  All this overlaid by Anderson and/or the VS defending Shepard's actions and the 'judge' or whoever trying to maintain order.
Finally we could get scenes of various Iconic buildings on Earth being destroyed by the Reapers followed by everyone in the court (except the main players obviously) getting messages and panicking, THEN the Reapers can attack the trial.

No, it would not have worked...another pacing killer.

We do no  need a long intro scene, just get to the game quickly and thats what ME3's intro is designed to do.

A trial would be redudant especially with an intro comic or system for new players.

Ahhh, okay, you're opinion is the only one that's valid I see.  I'll just leave you alone to play by yourself.

and if my opinion was shared by Bioware...tough

[izmirtheastarach]

txgoldrush wrote...

and if my opinion was shared by Bioware...tough

I will paypal you 5 dollars if you be quiet and go away,

[txgoldrush]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...
A bunch of stuff

Can we please stop engaging this troll. Come on, people.

Can you fanboys quit whining about every little thing, threatening to cancle their pre order or not buying Bioware games again for the smallist things.

Maybe I wouldn't "troll" if people didn't "whine".

[Il Divo]

txgoldrush wrote...

Can you fanboys quit whining about every little thing, threatening to cancle their pre order or not buying Bioware games again for the smallist things.

Maybe I wouldn't "troll" if people didn't "whine".

You're in the minority, mate. We don't like you.

[izmirtheastarach]

txgoldrush wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...
A bunch of stuff

Can we please stop engaging this troll. Come on, people.

Can you fanboys quit whining about every little thing, threatening to cancle their pre order or not buying Bioware games again for the smallist things.

Maybe I wouldn't "troll" if people didn't "whine".

Yep. So one is allowed to discuss anything. I understand now. You contribute nothing. You are convincing no one. All you are doing is being an argumentative jerk. Go join a discussion about something you care about, and leave the people who care about this alone.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 14 février 2012 - 04:29 .

[TheRevanchist]

Terror_K wrote...

This is the only way the opening could be more rushed:

lmao thats hilarious....and sadly true.

[izmirtheastarach]

Heh. Bad Dudes.

[TheRevanchist]

srsly guys...just ignore them...stop responding...I certinly haven't wasted my breath on them.

[txgoldrush]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...
A bunch of stuff

Can we please stop engaging this troll. Come on, people.

Can you fanboys quit whining about every little thing, threatening to cancle their pre order or not buying Bioware games again for the smallist things.

Maybe I wouldn't "troll" if people didn't "whine".

Yep. So one is allowed to discuss anything. I understand now. You contribute nothing. You are convincing no one. All you are doing is being an argumentative jerk. Go join a discussion about something you care about, and leave the people who care about this alone.

and you come off as whiney, who complains about every little thing, rushing to judgement based on a very small portion of the game.

The opening is not what I want...I ma gonna whine about it for 40 pages saying Bioware has lost its touch. This whole thread has been nothing but whining about something we have not seen the full context of.

[v_Zalem]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

v_Zalem wrote...

I've always found the whole trial thing ridiculous, especially if you got your Spectre status back in ME2. "Oh we're gonna arrest you and all cause you killed 300,000 Batarians." If Shep's a Spectre doesn't he answer to the Council? What authority does the Alliance have over him? He could just tell them to "Fu(|< off", take the Normandy, and do his thing. For someone who disobeys the Council to get to Ilos to stop Saren, it just seems silly that Shepard would submit to the Alliance after all this time if he's a Spectre.

I kind of agree with this as well. My Shep is a pure Paragon, but I still don't get why he can be "grounded" by the Alliance when he's a Spectre. Didn't get it when Udina did it, either.

Because Shepard's a brick. Yeah, I went there smudboy-style. Whatcha gonna do BSN? Flame me?

I just hope my question there gets answered in some form or fashion in ME3. I mean, Anderson's like "The **** you did would've got any other soldier court-martialed and discharged." , but I'm like Fu(|< that! If you didn't do what was necessary everyone would be dead and there would be NO Mass Effect 3 period. Like I said, the whole trial is a sham and shouldn't have happened period if your character is a Spectre...and even if he/she wasn't why would Shepard need to submit when he/she has a stealth ship piloted by one of the best pilots in the Alliance fleet that can jump to different star systems?

From what we see in the beta demo it never happens anyway thanks to the nerfed Reapers invading (also, why is Earth not defended by Alliance fleets? In the trailers we see the Reapers just fly towards the planet as if it were child's play - we see no fleets or any blockade of any form defending Earth...and even if there were and the Reapers annihilated them, the people planetside would had to have known cause of satellite imagery, falling debris from destroyed warships, and all that jazz. No one seemed to learn from the Citadel battle back in ME1...and this is why I will constantly say the Reapers are super nerfed).