2915 réponses à ce sujet

[Terror_K]

kylecouch wrote...

Another thing that bothers me...ppl seem to think the dialogue, characterization, choosing your responses. That all of these things and more are not "the game." that all of that is "pointless crap" that keeps us from "the game" aka the pews pews....so I think we can safely ignore this crowd...as it's obvious what they think "the game" is.

I wish BioWare would ignore these people too. Sadly, they not only don't, but make a big effort to design the game more towards them than ever with ME3. <_<

[ZehnWaters]

txgoldrush wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Wow, fan whining and stupidity has just gone into overdrive....

The intro was fine, and fans are not listening when Bioware says there will be more dialogue choices in the actual game.

When has there been a rule where A) The character has to be properly introduced the first time you see him or her or if the character knows, the player should know.

Wait there isn't........do Witcher 2 players complain about not really knowing Vernon or Ves in the first 5 minutes of the game? No. They are introduced now and fleshed out later. And it beats the amnesia stupidity of the first game. Same thing with Vega, the player may not know him but Shep does, which is fine, as long as they develop and establish him later. Hell, its BETTER they do it later, as you know, a sparring scene establishment can do more for the story than a forced establishment during a more urgent situation, like Shep going to the admirality board at the beginning.

The trial simply does not work, its a pacing killer, and thats probably why it was cut We already had a trial in the series, two actually, there doesn't need to be another one...

As for Bioware playing to the CoD crowd by getting to the "splosions", oh wait, unlike it most games, the games "splosions" have substance to them, like people dying, like the child in the beginning. Nevermind the fact that each "spolsion" in the opening means more lives lost. This is another idiot fanboy rant.

And really, you fans should learn to play by ITS RULES and not YOUR RULES. No wonder why people hate DAII's story, because they treat it like a traditional RPG story when its not. It CAN have the opening it did. Why? Because its a frame story..it wasn't Hawke's story, its Varric's version of Hawke's story. While there are problems with DAII's story, mostly in mage class and mage sided games, the story has far more substance and originality than the hiughly overrated and cliched DAO.

And really those pining for old Bioware, to hell with that old tired recycled formula of the same old plots and character cliches, and to hell with all those one dimensional personalities. Lets try new ways of storytelling and characterization and have more subtle three dimensional characters.

No, it would not have worked...another pacing killer.

We do no  need a long intro scene, just get to the game quickly and thats what ME3's intro is designed to do.

A trial would be redudant especially with an intro comic or system for new players.

I agree with almost every single point you've made.  I didn't think DA:O was clichéd or overrated.  It was epic, even if the story was unoriginal.

[Iakus]

txgoldrush wrote...


No because..

A) Bioware did Baldur's Gate
its a continous series just like Mass Effect
C) and no one complains about the gap in those games

welcome to double standards...if Bioware can do it with BG, that should be able to do it with ME.

Small detail:

While BG2 was a sequel, it wasn't really a continuation of the series.  It was a seperate adventure that took place in a different location ("Baldur's Gate 2" is something of a misnomer as it doesn't take place anywhere near Baldur's Gate)  Nothing but character stats could be imported, so you ahd a "canon" party.  You can even have some amusing conversations with people in BG2 who died in BG1.

If the Baldur's Gate series were made nowadays, you can bet people would howl about their choices not mattering when they start out with Jaheira in their party or Imoen as a mage rather than a rogue.

Of course Jaheira would also be sporting a blue jacket and tights in BG2 to make her "more stylish" and "give her sex appeal" but that's neither here nor there:innocent:

[izmirtheastarach]

txgoldrush wrote...

and you come off as whiney, who complains about every little thing, rushing to judgement based on a very small portion of the game.

The opening is not what I want...I ma gonna whine about it for 40 pages saying Bioware has lost its touch. This whole thread has been nothing but whining about something we have not seen the full context of.

You clearly didn't read the thread. I am not saying what you think I am. I think the game is going to be superb. I'm really looking forward to it. That's not the point. All I have been doing is discussing a feature that I was looking forward to, which has been cut from the final game.

It's not whining. It's called discussion. That's the purpose of these forums. If there is a specific person who is saying that the game will be terrible, go argue it out with them. My problem is not with Bioware, it's with rude people like you. All you do is derail the discussion. You're arrogant and argumentative and rude. You are everything that is wrong with these forums.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 14 février 2012 - 04:36 .

[RSX Titan]

kylecouch wrote...

Another thing that bothers me...ppl seem to think the dialogue, characterization, choosing your responses. That all of these things and more are not "the game." that all of that is "pointless crap" that keeps us from "the game" aka the pews pews....so I think we can safely ignore this crowd...as it's obvious what they think "the game" is.

This is what Bioware wants. Even though the fans wanted an RPG with Shooter elements, we got a wannabe shooter with RPG elements instead. What they fail to realize is that no one, at least that I've ever met, plays ME for the combat. If I want action, I play Halo or COD.

[izmirtheastarach]

RSX Titan wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

Another thing that bothers me...ppl seem to think the dialogue, characterization, choosing your responses. That all of these things and more are not "the game." that all of that is "pointless crap" that keeps us from "the game" aka the pews pews....so I think we can safely ignore this crowd...as it's obvious what they think "the game" is.

This is what Bioware wants. Even though the fans wanted an RPG with Shooter elements, we got a wannabe shooter with RPG elements instead. What they fail to realize is that no one, at least that I've ever met, plays ME for the combat. If I want action, I play Halo or COD.

Yeah, I don't think I plan any game for the combat. If there are not good story and characters, a game really doesn't interest me. That's how I've been feeling for a few years now.

[BackstageManiac]

Didn't anybody think that cause it's a demo they took it out leave out some of the more interesting parts. i mean it is only a demo and not the game it self. Bioware may just want you to get use to the controls and the idea of multilayer. So isn't that possible or is this conversation to far gone for that idea to come in?

[bluewolv1970]

RSX Titan wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

Another thing that bothers me...ppl seem to think the dialogue, characterization, choosing your responses. That all of these things and more are not "the game." that all of that is "pointless crap" that keeps us from "the game" aka the pews pews....so I think we can safely ignore this crowd...as it's obvious what they think "the game" is.

This is what Bioware wants. Even though the fans wanted an RPG with Shooter elements, we got a wannabe shooter with RPG elements instead. What they fail to realize is that no one, at least that I've ever met, plays ME for the combat. If I want action, I play Halo or COD.

Agreed!!

[izmirtheastarach]

BackstageManiac wrote...

Didn't anybody think that cause it's a demo they took it out leave out some of the more interesting parts. i mean it is only a demo and not the game it self. Bioware may just want you to get use to the controls and the idea of multilayer. So isn't that possible or is this conversation to far gone for that idea to come in?

We thought that right up until Chris came in here last night and told us that the intro in the demo is the same as it is in the final game.

[Dragoonlordz]

txgoldrush wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...
A bunch of stuff

Can we please stop engaging this troll. Come on, people.

Can you fanboys quit whining about every little thing, threatening to cancle their pre order or not buying Bioware games again for the smallist things.

Maybe I wouldn't "troll" if people didn't "whine".

Yep. So one is allowed to discuss anything. I understand now. You contribute nothing. You are convincing no one. All you are doing is being an argumentative jerk. Go join a discussion about something you care about, and leave the people who care about this alone.

and you come off as whiney, who complains about every little thing, rushing to judgement based on a very small portion of the game.

The opening is not what I want...I ma gonna whine about it for 40 pages saying Bioware has lost its touch. This whole thread has been nothing but whining about something we have not seen the full context of.

Keep it up, your well on your way to that number just whining about everyone else in here.

[v_Zalem]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

BackstageManiac wrote...

Didn't anybody think that cause it's a demo they took it out leave out some of the more interesting parts. i mean it is only a demo and not the game it self. Bioware may just want you to get use to the controls and the idea of multilayer. So isn't that possible or is this conversation to far gone for that idea to come in?

We thought that right up until Chris came in here last night and told us that the intro in the demo is the same as it is in the final game.

Really now? I wonder how much of the game remains the same then. Thankfully I didn't read the leaked script.

[BackstageManiac]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

BackstageManiac wrote...

Didn't anybody think that cause it's a demo they took it out leave out some of the more interesting parts. i mean it is only a demo and not the game it self. Bioware may just want you to get use to the controls and the idea of multilayer. So isn't that possible or is this conversation to far gone for that idea to come in?

We thought that right up until Chris came in here last night and told us that the intro in the demo is the same as it is in the final game.

Well no taht is quite a problem now isn't it. and would explain all the hub bub. Sorry for restating soemthing i just came back from keeping my self away from this place because of all the spoilers and such.

[TheRevanchist]

RSX Titan wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

Another thing that bothers me...ppl seem to think the dialogue, characterization, choosing your responses. That all of these things and more are not "the game." that all of that is "pointless crap" that keeps us from "the game" aka the pews pews....so I think we can safely ignore this crowd...as it's obvious what they think "the game" is.

This is what Bioware wants. Even though the fans wanted an RPG with Shooter elements, we got a wannabe shooter with RPG elements instead. What they fail to realize is that no one, at least that I've ever met, plays ME for the combat. If I want action, I play Halo or COD.

I actually know quite a few ppl who loves ME but absolutely hates the combat. They feel it's shoved down their throats way too often. These comments come from ppl who dont really play RPGs at all. who typically play multiplayer games of all things, or games like Arkham City. I know ppl like THAT...who feel the combat in the ME series is very forced and always gets in the way of the story ME tells. I think thats pretty compelling in itself.

[Dragoonlordz]

bluewolv1970 wrote...

RSX Titan wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

Another thing that bothers me...ppl seem to think the dialogue, characterization, choosing your responses. That all of these things and more are not "the game." that all of that is "pointless crap" that keeps us from "the game" aka the pews pews....so I think we can safely ignore this crowd...as it's obvious what they think "the game" is.

This is what Bioware wants. Even though the fans wanted an RPG with Shooter elements, we got a wannabe shooter with RPG elements instead. What they fail to realize is that no one, at least that I've ever met, plays ME for the combat. If I want action, I play Halo or COD.

Agreed!!

Spot on, I also can be added to your group as I never bought a single ME title for the combat.

[txgoldrush]

RSX Titan wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

Another thing that bothers me...ppl seem to think the dialogue, characterization, choosing your responses. That all of these things and more are not "the game." that all of that is "pointless crap" that keeps us from "the game" aka the pews pews....so I think we can safely ignore this crowd...as it's obvious what they think "the game" is.

This is what Bioware wants. Even though the fans wanted an RPG with Shooter elements, we got a wannabe shooter with RPG elements instead. What they fail to realize is that no one, at least that I've ever met, plays ME for the combat. If I want action, I play Halo or COD.

And why should the ME series have clunky combat? Why not have a great story with great action. And really, the time of RPG combat sucking in the West is over. Not only ME is proving action combat works in RPGs, games like Kingdoms of Amalur, The Witcher 2, Deus Ex Human Revolution, and Dark Souls prove this as well.

It was hilarious watching Alpha Protocol flop because they made the exact same mistakes ME1 did with its combat (but much worse).

Modifié par txgoldrush, 14 février 2012 - 04:48 .

[Terror_K]

The other thing is... the idea that BioWare would think that this is acceptable and passable as an intro makes me worry for the rest of the game. How much more of the story is rushed through? How much more is auto-dialogued and how many more things are sidelined just so we can get to the action? I would have thought they'd want to have this the best game in the series from start to finish... not be half-assed, lacking flow and feeling rushed. If anything, the beginning should be the most polished and refined part of the game.

[orpheuslupus]

RSX Titan wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

Another thing that bothers me...ppl seem to think the dialogue, characterization, choosing your responses. That all of these things and more are not "the game." that all of that is "pointless crap" that keeps us from "the game" aka the pews pews....so I think we can safely ignore this crowd...as it's obvious what they think "the game" is.

This is what Bioware wants. Even though the fans wanted an RPG with Shooter elements, we got a wannabe shooter with RPG elements instead. What they fail to realize is that no one, at least that I've ever met, plays ME for the combat. If I want action, I play Halo or COD.

Who has even said any of those things?

That's the thing that amazes me about these arguments.  I have never seen anyone say "YOU KNOW WHAT?  MASS EFFECT SHOULDN'T DIALOGUE AND CHARACTERIZATION".  No one wants or is trying to make Mass Effect  a "mindless shooter" other than people who wouldn't play Mass Effect anyway.  This of course doesn't mean that the action elements should suck; I liked ME1's story to some extent but found it a absolute slog to play through most of the time to be honest, and had no plans to buy ME2 at the time because of it.  And I'm a huge RPG fanboy (to clarify, I would have also been happy if ME2 had just been a point and click game.  Either more shooter or more RPG would have been an improvement to me; that...weird hybrid thing they had going on wasn't really all that fun.)

I still maintain, however, that the trial and going in depth on Vega's history with Shephard would have been terrible for story pacing.  I don't mean "because we wouldn't get to the action" so much as it simply doesn't seem to me to be the time to do that.  Long discussion on the ship later, sure.  As bits of conversation here and there through the opening levels, sure.  Long expostion trial right at the beginning where you have to hook people, some of which will inevitably be new and will have to think of justifications for actions right then that they have no context about whether you like it or not ?  Terrible for the type of story they're trying to tell.


EDIT:  Fixed typos.

Modifié par orpheuslupus, 14 février 2012 - 04:53 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Terror_K wrote...

The other thing is... the idea that BioWare would think that this is acceptable and passable as an intro makes me worry for the rest of the game. How much more of the story is rushed through? How much more is auto-dialogued and how many more things are sidelined just so we can get to the action? I would have thought they'd want to have this the best game in the series from start to finish... not be half-assed, lacking flow and feeling rushed. If anything, the beginning should be the most polished and refined part of the game.

I felt same way, it made me concerned for the rest of the title as described here not long ago.

[izmirtheastarach]

Terror_K wrote...

The other thing is... the idea that BioWare would think that this is acceptable and passable as an intro makes me worry for the rest of the game. How much more of the story is rushed through? How much more is auto-dialogued and how many more things are sidelined just so we can get to the action? I would have thought they'd want to have this the best game in the series from start to finish... not be half-assed, lacking flow and feeling rushed. If anything, the beginning should be the most polished and refined part of the game.

It really sort of ignores the modern convention in gaming where the intro gives you an idea of the gameplay and tone in the rest of the game.

[Dragoonlordz]

orpheuslupus wrote...

RSX Titan wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

Another thing that bothers me...ppl seem to think the dialogue, characterization, choosing your responses. That all of these things and more are not "the game." that all of that is "pointless crap" that keeps us from "the game" aka the pews pews....so I think we can safely ignore this crowd...as it's obvious what they think "the game" is.

This is what Bioware wants. Even though the fans wanted an RPG with Shooter elements, we got a wannabe shooter with RPG elements instead. What they fail to realize is that no one, at least that I've ever met, plays ME for the combat. If I want action, I play Halo or COD.

Who has even said any of those things?

That's the thing that amazes me about these arguments.  I have never seen anyone say "YOU KNOW WHAT?  MASS EFFECT SHOULDN'T DIALOGUE AND CHARACTERIZATION".  No one wants or is trying to make Mass Effect  a "mindless shooter" other than people who wouldn't play Mass Effect anyway.  This of course doesn't mean that the action elements should suck; I liked ME1's story to some extent but found it a absolute slog to play through most of the time to be honest, and had no plans to buy ME2 at the time because of it.  And I'm a huge RPG fanboy (to clarify, I would have also been happy if ME2 had just been a point and click game.  Either more shooter or more RPG would have been an improvement to me; that...weird hybrid thing they had going on wasn't really all that fun.)

I still maintain, however, that the trial and going in depth on Vega's history with Shephard would have been terrible for story pacing.  I don't mean "because we wouldn't get to the action" so much as it simply doesn't seem to me to be the time to do that.  Long discussion on the ship later, sure.  As bits of conversation here and there through the opening levels, sure.  Long expostion trial right at the beginning where you have to hook people, some of which will inevitably be new and will have to think of justifications for actions right then that they have no context about whether you like it or not ?  Terrible for the type of story they're trying to tell.


EDIT:  Fixed typos.

Time has nothing to do with it and falls on same principle as Tx's stance does. Shepard was around for 6 months, another 10 minutes would not have killed them to have present before the reapers showed up. When they show up is when action starts, that element could of started later. Urgency plays no part in it given that fact.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 14 février 2012 - 04:55 .

[v_Zalem]

Terror_K wrote...

The other thing is... the idea that BioWare would think that this is acceptable and passable as an intro makes me worry for the rest of the game. How much more of the story is rushed through? How much more is auto-dialogued and how many more things are sidelined just so we can get to the action? I would have thought they'd want to have this the best game in the series from start to finish... not be half-assed, lacking flow and feeling rushed. If anything, the beginning should be the most polished and refined part of the game.

Mass Effect 3 was announced not even a full year after ME2's release...and you saw ME2's lackluster plot. That should be an indicator for you. I'm not trying to dissuade you from playing ME3, just saying don't get your hopes up now that we know the intro is the same.

[izmirtheastarach]

orpheuslupus wrote...

I still maintain, however, that the trial and going in depth on Vega's history with Shephard would have been terrible for story pacing.

Why is it that people seem to think there is no way to include some part of the trial, and keep the pace up? It's not like we're talking about a courtroom procederal. Just some quick yelling back and forth.

As I said before, if Shep has been called into that room so they Alliance brass could pass sentence on him, and then the Repears invade, that would be fine. Simple change.

I also fully understand Dragoonlordz' point about this. Why do we need a crazy breakneck pace right from the first moment? Could we not have built up to that?

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 14 février 2012 - 04:57 .

[izmirtheastarach]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Let's hope that the demo isn't actually the whole beginning.

Having been told that it is repeatedly, we can only assume that it is. Unless we all want to live in denial.

[TheRevanchist]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Let's hope that the demo isn't actually the whole beginning.

Chris told it was last night I'm afraid...