2915 réponses à ce sujet

[billy the squid]

Uezurii wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

does everything have to be spoon fed to you right away....lol

Why don't you play te game and BE PATIENT. Storytellers like to...umm...delay character development and not force character establishment when its not appropriate.

We've been here before haven't we. You're being obtuse again. chracter development is not determined in the first 10 minutes and no one said it should be. And establismnet does not require a fixed characterisation, but a simple explaination of who he is and how he knows Shepard might help.

Are you going to continue to be disengenuos?

Dude You played 8 minutes of the beginning, trust me, after those 8 minutes, and the real intro will start on the Normandy, you'll be able to talk to Vega and hear all about how we met him and who he is.

First anyone who says trust me, doesn't put themselves on a solid footing. Secondly the entire first element when an explaination of what had occured in the previous period and how I know this Vega charater would have helped. It didn't have to be deep, nor expansive. That can come later, but I stand talking to this character and I haven't the slightest idea who he is despite shepard seemingly knowing him.

[AlanC9]

How much more do you need to know in that moment, though? Vega's a soldier that Shepard knows, and is on good terms with. Presumably there are a lot of those in the Alliance armed forces, since Shepard had a long career prior to ME1.

Modifié par AlanC9, 15 février 2012 - 02:28 .

[Dragoonlordz]

billy the squid wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

does everything have to be spoon fed to you right away....lol

Why don't you play te game and BE PATIENT. Storytellers like to...umm...delay character development and not force character establishment when its not appropriate.

We've been here before haven't we. You're being obtuse again. chracter development is not determined in the first 10 minutes and no one said it should be. And establismnet does not require a fixed characterisation, but a simple explaination of who he is and how he knows Shepard might help.

Are you going to continue to be disengenuos?

And where is the rule that characters require a simple explanation when they are introduced? There isn't.

Once again, play by the story's rules, not by yours. It is so bad that you aren't properely introduced now but are 10 minutes later after you leave Earth??? This is so ridicoulous.

So we've gone from You claiming, that people demanding character development and establishment to a simple explaination being the rule, would you care to distort your stance any more?

Considering having the reader understand what and who are the characters in question, in the context of events is something which lends itself to a cohesive narrative. Depth and development can come later.

And rules? What rules? The story has no rules, there a hallmarks of good writting in literary pieces, and general rules that are abided by in literature because they work. That's it.  Claiming a single story has rules is a bizzare non sequiter.

Ofcouse he wont, more precise being won't do very well if tried.

Earlier in this thread already used the fallacy of "we dont need a trial" when in reality it is "he does not want a trial". Followed up with responses which showed him for what truly is, not just a troll but one of the most selfish and self absorbed ones I think anyone has ever met on BSN.

when got asked the question of allowing 5 minutes extra for character development at the start of the game and deeper role playing through interactions with people who will die later (meaning one and only chance to get a reaction or bridge of gap between two titles with those who spent last 6 months with), followed by having his way of shooting things to hearts content for the next 40-120 hours afterwards. He was so selfish that those 5 minutes or even less that others wanted for aforementioned aspects, he deems himself so high and mighty that they should do without because he does not want to spend a few minutes doing it and wants to spend those extra few minutes clearly shooting stuff.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 15 février 2012 - 02:33 .

[txgoldrush]

billy the squid wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

does everything have to be spoon fed to you right away....lol

Why don't you play te game and BE PATIENT. Storytellers like to...umm...delay character development and not force character establishment when its not appropriate.

We've been here before haven't we. You're being obtuse again. chracter development is not determined in the first 10 minutes and no one said it should be. And establismnet does not require a fixed characterisation, but a simple explaination of who he is and how he knows Shepard might help.

Are you going to continue to be disengenuos?

And where is the rule that characters require a simple explanation when they are introduced? There isn't.

Once again, play by the story's rules, not by yours. It is so bad that you aren't properely introduced now but are 10 minutes later after you leave Earth??? This is so ridicoulous.

So we've gone from You claiming, that people demanding character development and establishment to a simple explaination being the rule, would you care to distort your stance any more?

Considering having the reader understand what and who are the characters in question, in the context of events is something which lends itself to a cohesive narrative. Depth and development can come later.

And rules? What rules? The story has no rules, there a hallmarks of good writting in literary pieces, and general rules that are abided by in literature because they work. That's it.  Claiming a single story has rules is a bizzare non sequiter.

So if I try to view Planescape Torment as a traditonal fantasy tale, and then pan it (when it clearly isn't trying to be), is that fair?

Sometimes to get enjoyment, you have to go along with how the storytellers tell the story. That means even going along with characters not introduced fully until later. That can also mean following along a not so traditionally told frame narrative.

Hell, proving my point, in FFVI, Celes was actually the second party character shown (at the very beginning), but they don't even introduce or even name her until you rescue her later a good ways into the game. And no one criticizes this.

As for rules, the writers set them, not the fans.

[Rudy Lis]

txgoldrush wrote...

There is also a children patch for the EU people.

The two games selling now on steam may not have kids either....gotta love political correctness.

Funny. Not that I need children in F1, I doubt they could told you something useful, like some of them in F2.
Ran my F1, no children. Called back home to friend, poor lad had to stop playing ME3 demo, find his F1 and ran it too. Strangely, he didn't find any children too. And he bought his game in States, back in 90's. I'm not sure he was thorough, though.
But anyway, thanks for helping and clarification, you, Cuddlezarro, and you, txgoldrush.

AlanC9 wrote...

How much more do you need to know in that moment, though? Vega's a soldier that Shepard knows, and is on good terms with. Presumably there are a lot of those in the Alliance armed forces, since Shepard had a long career prior to ME1.

Yes, you are correct. But shouldn't it be right to tell us how they were met? It's not ME1 beginning, we already have some "story" and adding character who knows our character, but we have no idea about him isn't looking that right.
Shepard is Geralt with amnesia, it's not working that way.
IMHO, of course. Don't get all the fuss against Vega, though, for those 2 seconds I've seen him, he didn't annoyed me. No small feat, let me tell you.

Modifié par Rudy Lis, 15 février 2012 - 02:36 .

[Mendelevosa]

Modifié par Mendelevosa, 15 février 2012 - 02:35 .

[RSX Titan]

I would have preferred the game start with a trial/hearing but I fully admit that is because I love that story mechanic when applied properly. I hope that Priestley is wrong and that the opening is more polished than the demo but if not, oh well.

[Mendelevosa]

 OK, this thread has gone to hell. So I officially declare that this thread is now about llamas.

[UltraBoy360]

billy the squid wrote...

Uezurii wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

does everything have to be spoon fed to you right away....lol

Why don't you play te game and BE PATIENT. Storytellers like to...umm...delay character development and not force character establishment when its not appropriate.

We've been here before haven't we. You're being obtuse again. chracter development is not determined in the first 10 minutes and no one said it should be. And establismnet does not require a fixed characterisation, but a simple explaination of who he is and how he knows Shepard might help.

Are you going to continue to be disengenuos?

Dude You played 8 minutes of the beginning, trust me, after those 8 minutes, and the real intro will start on the Normandy, you'll be able to talk to Vega and hear all about how we met him and who he is.

First anyone who says trust me, doesn't put themselves on a solid footing. Secondly the entire first element when an explaination of what had occured in the previous period and how I know this Vega charater would have helped. It didn't have to be deep, nor expansive. That can come later, but I stand talking to this character and I haven't the slightest idea who he is despite shepard seemingly knowing him.

He's an Alliance soldier sent to escort Shepard to the committee - at this stage why would you need to know more. How is ME1 any different? When you concerned/angry when Shepard says to Joker: "you always expect the worst". Did that break immersion because clearly Shepard already knew Joker (and Anderson and Kaidan) but you didn't? Would you have prefered Joker to explain he was a disabled Alliance pilot in his first dialogue?

I seriously do not understand this frustraition.

[Dragoonlordz]

txgoldrush wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

does everything have to be spoon fed to you right away....lol

Why don't you play te game and BE PATIENT. Storytellers like to...umm...delay character development and not force character establishment when its not appropriate.

We've been here before haven't we. You're being obtuse again. chracter development is not determined in the first 10 minutes and no one said it should be. And establismnet does not require a fixed characterisation, but a simple explaination of who he is and how he knows Shepard might help.

Are you going to continue to be disengenuos?

And where is the rule that characters require a simple explanation when they are introduced? There isn't.

Once again, play by the story's rules, not by yours. It is so bad that you aren't properely introduced now but are 10 minutes later after you leave Earth??? This is so ridicoulous.

So we've gone from You claiming, that people demanding character development and establishment to a simple explaination being the rule, would you care to distort your stance any more?

Considering having the reader understand what and who are the characters in question, in the context of events is something which lends itself to a cohesive narrative. Depth and development can come later.

And rules? What rules? The story has no rules, there a hallmarks of good writting in literary pieces, and general rules that are abided by in literature because they work. That's it.  Claiming a single story has rules is a bizzare non sequiter.

So if I try to view Planescape Torment as a traditonal fantasy tale, and then pan it (when it clearly isn't trying to be), is that fair?

Sometimes to get enjoyment, you have to go along with how the storytellers tell the story. That means even going along with characters not introduced fully until later. That can also mean following along a not so traditionally told frame narrative.

Hell, proving my point, in FFVI, Celes was actually the second party character shown (at the very beginning), but they don't even introduce or even name her until you rescue her later a good ways into the game. And no one criticizes this.

As for rules, the writers set them, not the fans.

Do you realise how ignorant you even sound, what you enjoy is not what others might enjoy. It has already been established this aspect would have made the game more enjoyable for others except you. You have already shown that you are too arrogant to understand other peoples feelings on this matter hence why you have been trolling this thread for past 50 pages arguing with every single person in it. Honestly I am quite surprised how you have not been suspended yet.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 15 février 2012 - 02:36 .

[billy the squid]

AlanC9 wrote...

How much more do you need to know in that moment, though? Vega's a soldier that Shepard knows, and is on good terms with. Presumably there are a lot of those in the Alliance armed forces, since Shepard had a long career prior to ME1.

Again, it is an assumption. Which leads to the question of. What have I been doing for the time after Arrival, once the ship got grounded. The Alliance had no idea the Reapers were coming, and called shep to trial then, even though they knew they lost contact with other colonies. They then lose contact with the moon and literally seconds later the Reapers land. Or if they did lose contanct with colonies and knew about it for months then have they spent the time sitting around doing what?

Something which could have done with more explaination. The introduction currently feels rushed and disjointed, it wouldn't have killed the game to give people some background information after the time gap between Arrival and Me3.

[txgoldrush]

Rudy Lis wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

There is also a children patch for the EU people.

The two games selling now on steam may not have kids either....gotta love political correctness.

Funny. Not that I need children in F1, I doubt they could told you something useful, like some of them in F2.
Ran my F1, no children. Called back home to friend, poor lad had to stop playing ME3 demo, find his F1 and ran it too. Strangely, he didn't find any children too. And he bought his game in States, back in 90's. I'm not sure he was thorough, though.
But anyway, thanks for helping and clarification, you, Cuddlezarro, and you, txgoldrush.

Its quite funny...killing kids wasn't that big of an issue back in the 90's and early 2000's....you could kill kids in Fallout, you could in the first two Deus Ex games (I love the reaction I get from Donna Morgan in Invisbile War), and you can kill kids in the Ultima series (and your child party member can die in bloody ways in Ultima VII). Hell there is even a kid that attacks you in the atrocious Ultima IX (DAII is NOWHERE near the fail and disappointment of U9).

Now, everything is all PC.

[txgoldrush]

UltraBoy360 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Uezurii wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

does everything have to be spoon fed to you right away....lol

Why don't you play te game and BE PATIENT. Storytellers like to...umm...delay character development and not force character establishment when its not appropriate.

We've been here before haven't we. You're being obtuse again. chracter development is not determined in the first 10 minutes and no one said it should be. And establismnet does not require a fixed characterisation, but a simple explaination of who he is and how he knows Shepard might help.

Are you going to continue to be disengenuos?

Dude You played 8 minutes of the beginning, trust me, after those 8 minutes, and the real intro will start on the Normandy, you'll be able to talk to Vega and hear all about how we met him and who he is.

First anyone who says trust me, doesn't put themselves on a solid footing. Secondly the entire first element when an explaination of what had occured in the previous period and how I know this Vega charater would have helped. It didn't have to be deep, nor expansive. That can come later, but I stand talking to this character and I haven't the slightest idea who he is despite shepard seemingly knowing him.

He's an Alliance soldier sent to escort Shepard to the committee - at this stage why would you need to know more. How is ME1 any different? When you concerned/angry when Shepard says to Joker: "you always expect the worst". Did that break immersion because clearly Shepard already knew Joker (and Anderson and Kaidan) but you didn't? Would you have prefered Joker to explain he was a disabled Alliance pilot in his first dialogue?

I seriously do not understand this frustraition.

wow...good point. The entire ME1 opening was like this and this was all OK, now one little space marine in ME3 and EVERYBODY GOES NUTS!!!!!!

[Dragoonlordz]

UltraBoy360 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Uezurii wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

does everything have to be spoon fed to you right away....lol

Why don't you play te game and BE PATIENT. Storytellers like to...umm...delay character development and not force character establishment when its not appropriate.

We've been here before haven't we. You're being obtuse again. chracter development is not determined in the first 10 minutes and no one said it should be. And establismnet does not require a fixed characterisation, but a simple explaination of who he is and how he knows Shepard might help.

Are you going to continue to be disengenuos?

Dude You played 8 minutes of the beginning, trust me, after those 8 minutes, and the real intro will start on the Normandy, you'll be able to talk to Vega and hear all about how we met him and who he is.

First anyone who says trust me, doesn't put themselves on a solid footing. Secondly the entire first element when an explaination of what had occured in the previous period and how I know this Vega charater would have helped. It didn't have to be deep, nor expansive. That can come later, but I stand talking to this character and I haven't the slightest idea who he is despite shepard seemingly knowing him.

He's an Alliance soldier sent to escort Shepard to the committee - at this stage why would you need to know more. How is ME1 any different? When you concerned/angry when Shepard says to Joker: "you always expect the worst". Did that break immersion because clearly Shepard already knew Joker (and Anderson and Kaidan) but you didn't? Would you have prefered Joker to explain he was a disabled Alliance pilot in his first dialogue?

I seriously do not understand this frustraition.

It's really not that complex though the troll tx would have you belive otherwise.

Almost every single person in here bar a couple has stated they would of got more enjoyment if had been a trial, that it is a disappointment because they will not get that extra enjoyment due to it being missing. It has bugger all to do with need, it is subjective and a preference, just so happens to be one that a vast amount of people have.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 15 février 2012 - 02:53 .

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

Okay, everybody. Has the title question been answered yet? If they removed the trial, then I'm disappointed, but I suspect the in-character reasoning could have gone like this:

"Shepard, we in the Alliance would like to put you on trial for..." (a more formal wording though)

"Wait. I've gotta stop you right there. Spectre immunity."

"Oh."

[txgoldrush]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

does everything have to be spoon fed to you right away....lol

Why don't you play te game and BE PATIENT. Storytellers like to...umm...delay character development and not force character establishment when its not appropriate.

We've been here before haven't we. You're being obtuse again. chracter development is not determined in the first 10 minutes and no one said it should be. And establismnet does not require a fixed characterisation, but a simple explaination of who he is and how he knows Shepard might help.

Are you going to continue to be disengenuos?

And where is the rule that characters require a simple explanation when they are introduced? There isn't.

Once again, play by the story's rules, not by yours. It is so bad that you aren't properely introduced now but are 10 minutes later after you leave Earth??? This is so ridicoulous.

So we've gone from You claiming, that people demanding character development and establishment to a simple explaination being the rule, would you care to distort your stance any more?

Considering having the reader understand what and who are the characters in question, in the context of events is something which lends itself to a cohesive narrative. Depth and development can come later.

And rules? What rules? The story has no rules, there a hallmarks of good writting in literary pieces, and general rules that are abided by in literature because they work. That's it.  Claiming a single story has rules is a bizzare non sequiter.

So if I try to view Planescape Torment as a traditonal fantasy tale, and then pan it (when it clearly isn't trying to be), is that fair?

Sometimes to get enjoyment, you have to go along with how the storytellers tell the story. That means even going along with characters not introduced fully until later. That can also mean following along a not so traditionally told frame narrative.

Hell, proving my point, in FFVI, Celes was actually the second party character shown (at the very beginning), but they don't even introduce or even name her until you rescue her later a good ways into the game. And no one criticizes this.

As for rules, the writers set them, not the fans.

Do you realise how ignorant you even sound, what you enjoy is not what others might enjoy. It has already been established this aspect would have made the game more enjoyable for others except you. You have already shown that you are too arrogant to understand other peoples feelings on this matter hence why you have been trolling this thread for past 50 pages arguing with every single person in it. Honestly I am quite surprised how you have not been suspended yet.

And how is it "established"?

What if the trial was done poorly? Or disrupts the pacing of the game? You are just not taking these things into account.

Why don't you take the logical and sane thing, and judge AFTER the game is released?

Its that simple.

if the beginning and Sheps situation isn't fleshed out later, then that is a problem....but we do not know that it won't be.

And is it a fair opinion to judge a drama as a comedy? Or judge the story by its own merits on what it tries to do, judging a drama as a drama? I say the latter.

[txgoldrush]

Neverwinter_Knight77 wrote...

Okay, everybody. Has the title question been answered yet? If they removed the trial, then I'm disappointed, but I suspect the in-character reasoning could have gone like this:

"Shepard, we in the Alliance would like to put you on trial for..." (a more formal wording though)

"Wait. I've gotta stop you right there. Spectre immunity."

"Oh."

yep..anothe reason why a trial can be stupid.

[Rudy Lis]

txgoldrush wrote...

Now, everything is all PC.

Yep. Warm, fuzzy, smiling and waving. We definitely lost something over those years - now everyone is worried about everything.
I remember several years ago, some "mom" blamed computer games for being overviolent and teaching children bad things. Ironically enough, she discussed M-rated games, her kid was around 12 y.o. and while she barked  such expletives... Well, we didn't used those in army - too harsh. Not to mention her drinking beer and smoking. Well, definitely, computer games are baaad.  

[billy the squid]

UltraBoy360 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Uezurii wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

does everything have to be spoon fed to you right away....lol

Why don't you play te game and BE PATIENT. Storytellers like to...umm...delay character development and not force character establishment when its not appropriate.

We've been here before haven't we. You're being obtuse again. chracter development is not determined in the first 10 minutes and no one said it should be. And establismnet does not require a fixed characterisation, but a simple explaination of who he is and how he knows Shepard might help.

Are you going to continue to be disengenuos?

Dude You played 8 minutes of the beginning, trust me, after those 8 minutes, and the real intro will start on the Normandy, you'll be able to talk to Vega and hear all about how we met him and who he is.

First anyone who says trust me, doesn't put themselves on a solid footing. Secondly the entire first element when an explaination of what had occured in the previous period and how I know this Vega charater would have helped. It didn't have to be deep, nor expansive. That can come later, but I stand talking to this character and I haven't the slightest idea who he is despite shepard seemingly knowing him.

He's an Alliance soldier sent to escort Shepard to the committee - at this stage why would you need to know more. How is ME1 any different? When you concerned/angry when Shepard says to Joker: "you always expect the worst". Did that break immersion because clearly Shepard already knew Joker (and Anderson and Kaidan) but you didn't? Would you have prefered Joker to explain he was a disabled Alliance pilot in his first dialogue?

I seriously do not understand this frustraition.

And I can talk to Priestly to gain info on Anderson. I can talk to Anderson, Dr. Chackwas. The marine who's killed and Joker and Kaiden briefly before, I talk to Nhilus and recieve my mission. Again there is a misapprehension that there is a demand for Vega's life story in the first 10 minutes. It would'nt kill you to know his thoughts on the committee he's escorting you to, nice way of leading shep into what has been going on for the last few months whilst you've been grounded, wouldn't it?

[Dragoonlordz]

txgoldrush wrote...

UltraBoy360 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Uezurii wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

does everything have to be spoon fed to you right away....lol

Why don't you play te game and BE PATIENT. Storytellers like to...umm...delay character development and not force character establishment when its not appropriate.

We've been here before haven't we. You're being obtuse again. chracter development is not determined in the first 10 minutes and no one said it should be. And establismnet does not require a fixed characterisation, but a simple explaination of who he is and how he knows Shepard might help.

Are you going to continue to be disengenuos?

Dude You played 8 minutes of the beginning, trust me, after those 8 minutes, and the real intro will start on the Normandy, you'll be able to talk to Vega and hear all about how we met him and who he is.

First anyone who says trust me, doesn't put themselves on a solid footing. Secondly the entire first element when an explaination of what had occured in the previous period and how I know this Vega charater would have helped. It didn't have to be deep, nor expansive. That can come later, but I stand talking to this character and I haven't the slightest idea who he is despite shepard seemingly knowing him.

He's an Alliance soldier sent to escort Shepard to the committee - at this stage why would you need to know more. How is ME1 any different? When you concerned/angry when Shepard says to Joker: "you always expect the worst". Did that break immersion because clearly Shepard already knew Joker (and Anderson and Kaidan) but you didn't? Would you have prefered Joker to explain he was a disabled Alliance pilot in his first dialogue?

I seriously do not understand this frustraition.

wow...good point. The entire ME1 opening was like this and this was all OK, now one little space marine in ME3 and EVERYBODY GOES NUTS!!!!!!

So yet again your contradicting yourself for the third time in this thread. You moaned (correction) ranted on about how it is better for games to not use the same tropes and methods each time and now you have switched around again to the otherside trying to use other games which use same methods to somehow enforce your argument that different is better and also that the same is better all because it was not disappointed then so as far as your concerned should not be now because they did same thing?

So far we have established in this thread you are ignorant, arrogant and now a hypocrite again for third time. Feel free to keep digging your hole deeper and deeper. Does it occur to you that peoples expectations increase over time or that hell they might just have a change of heart and now would have enjoyed to have taken part in something that to you would not?

Its the difference between adding a few minutes of extra content to the game to please many other people while at same time you still get your "splosions" moment only few minutes later and followed by 40-120 hours+ of shooting stuff which you seem to desire. You lose nothing in having it as everyting you want still happens only a couple minutes later while everyone else gains because as shown in this thread and the stickied one by Chris most here would/do want to have had that extra content.

Can't you even see how selfish you are coming across?

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 15 février 2012 - 02:55 .

[billy the squid]

txgoldrush wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

does everything have to be spoon fed to you right away....lol

Why don't you play te game and BE PATIENT. Storytellers like to...umm...delay character development and not force character establishment when its not appropriate.

We've been here before haven't we. You're being obtuse again. chracter development is not determined in the first 10 minutes and no one said it should be. And establismnet does not require a fixed characterisation, but a simple explaination of who he is and how he knows Shepard might help.

Are you going to continue to be disengenuos?

And where is the rule that characters require a simple explanation when they are introduced? There isn't.

Once again, play by the story's rules, not by yours. It is so bad that you aren't properely introduced now but are 10 minutes later after you leave Earth??? This is so ridicoulous.

So we've gone from You claiming, that people demanding character development and establishment to a simple explaination being the rule, would you care to distort your stance any more?

Considering having the reader understand what and who are the characters in question, in the context of events is something which lends itself to a cohesive narrative. Depth and development can come later.

And rules? What rules? The story has no rules, there a hallmarks of good writting in literary pieces, and general rules that are abided by in literature because they work. That's it.  Claiming a single story has rules is a bizzare non sequiter.

So if I try to view Planescape Torment as a traditonal fantasy tale, and then pan it (when it clearly isn't trying to be), is that fair?

Sometimes to get enjoyment, you have to go along with how the storytellers tell the story. That means even going along with characters not introduced fully until later. That can also mean following along a not so traditionally told frame narrative.

Hell, proving my point, in FFVI, Celes was actually the second party character shown (at the very beginning), but they don't even introduce or even name her until you rescue her later a good ways into the game. And no one criticizes this.

As for rules, the writers set them, not the fans.

Do you realise how ignorant you even sound, what you enjoy is not what others might enjoy. It has already been established this aspect would have made the game more enjoyable for others except you. You have already shown that you are too arrogant to understand other peoples feelings on this matter hence why you have been trolling this thread for past 50 pages arguing with every single person in it. Honestly I am quite surprised how you have not been suspended yet.

And how is it "established"?

What if the trial was done poorly? Or disrupts the pacing of the game? You are just not taking these things into account.

Why don't you take the logical and sane thing, and judge AFTER the game is released?

Its that simple.

if the beginning and Sheps situation isn't fleshed out later, then that is a problem....but we do not know that it won't be.

And is it a fair opinion to judge a drama as a comedy? Or judge the story by its own merits on what it tries to do, judging a drama as a drama? I say the latter.

That is a glarring logical fallacy. What if this mission was done poorly, oh we'll take it out. Oh Reapers are portrayed poorly we'll take them out. Your assertion is utterly asinine.

And as to judging the game, who is? Don't deviate from the topic at hand. The introduction and the issues of cohesion.

[txgoldrush]

billy the squid wrote...

UltraBoy360 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Uezurii wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

does everything have to be spoon fed to you right away....lol

Why don't you play te game and BE PATIENT. Storytellers like to...umm...delay character development and not force character establishment when its not appropriate.

We've been here before haven't we. You're being obtuse again. chracter development is not determined in the first 10 minutes and no one said it should be. And establismnet does not require a fixed characterisation, but a simple explaination of who he is and how he knows Shepard might help.

Are you going to continue to be disengenuos?

Dude You played 8 minutes of the beginning, trust me, after those 8 minutes, and the real intro will start on the Normandy, you'll be able to talk to Vega and hear all about how we met him and who he is.

First anyone who says trust me, doesn't put themselves on a solid footing. Secondly the entire first element when an explaination of what had occured in the previous period and how I know this Vega charater would have helped. It didn't have to be deep, nor expansive. That can come later, but I stand talking to this character and I haven't the slightest idea who he is despite shepard seemingly knowing him.

He's an Alliance soldier sent to escort Shepard to the committee - at this stage why would you need to know more. How is ME1 any different? When you concerned/angry when Shepard says to Joker: "you always expect the worst". Did that break immersion because clearly Shepard already knew Joker (and Anderson and Kaidan) but you didn't? Would you have prefered Joker to explain he was a disabled Alliance pilot in his first dialogue?

I seriously do not understand this frustraition.

And I can talk to Priestly to gain info on Anderson. I can talk to Anderson, Dr. Chackwas. The marine who's killed and Joker and Kaiden briefly before, I talk to Nhilus and recieve my mission. Again there is a misapprehension that there is a demand for Vega's life story in the first 10 minutes. It would'nt kill you to know his thoughts on the committee he's escorting you to, nice way of leading shep into what has been going on for the last few months whilst you've been grounded, wouldn't it?

And you can't wait 10 minutes to properly introduced normally....its making a HUGE deal out of something small.

This is such a nonissue.

[commanderjst]

Ok so is the trial in the retail version exactly like the demo???? Because I would like to debate for a good amount of length. Not 5 minutes in the trail before being pushed into battle.

So is the trial a good length or rushed??

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

commanderjst wrote...

Ok so is the trial in the retail version exactly like the demo???? Because I would like to debate for a good amount of length. Not 5 minutes in the trail before being pushed into battle.

So is the trial a good length or rushed??

I can't seem to get a straight answer on this forum, but I think it's exactly like the demo.

[commanderjst]

Neverwinter_Knight77 wrote...

commanderjst wrote...

Ok so is the trial in the retail version exactly like the demo???? Because I would like to debate for a good amount of length. Not 5 minutes in the trail before being pushed into battle.

So is the trial a good length or rushed??

I can't seem to get a straight answer on this forum, but I think it's exactly like the demo.

Oh I know.

I want a straight answer.