2915 réponses à ce sujet

[txgoldrush]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Esquin wrote...

So the script gets leaked. And they choose to cut the parts that people actually liked? What the hell?

It's on the cutting room floor after someone said "Wait, won't people have to be patient and think?"

Patience has nothing to do with it and in a response to txgold at same time. Those people the admirals, the ones at the trial and the ones who went back to face and spent 6 months with are dead by time leave Earth. You do not get that back by waiting patiently they are gone and so is that opportunity. That it the difference between having the 15 minute talk after they are dead or the 5-15 minute talk "with them" while they are alive.

Now we won't get it because the game has gone to gold status and no more changes will be made to the core game so won't be in the retail version. However there is a chance may be added as DLC in future if people ask for it and we very much have the right to say the lack of it disappointed us. That would be nice if at later date since already gone gold, a viable option would be through DLC, an extension to alleviate the "rushed" feel of the introduction for those who desire it and enhancement of those missing 6 months from start of the retail game including maybe the actual trial.

and yet, the admirals seem to be smarter about the threat than the "trial" opening and summoned Shep for assistance. It goes to show they are working on theory instea dof being in complete denial.

Notice also in the opening a huge part of the alliance fleet is near Earth, anticipating the threat, annihilated in minutes.

In fact if it went with the "trial" the very first scene does not work.

[Dragoonlordz]

Esquin wrote...

deucemojo wrote...

DJBare wrote...

deucemojo wrote...
Well that is dissappointing. I know the game has gone gold but is it too late to add the trial scene? Or make it exclusive to those who completed the Arrival DLC? One can only hope.

I assume they still have the assets, but I doubt very much they will consider it worth the time and expense to distribute it.

I hope this thread has caught Bioware's attention as it stretches the 64 page mark. Even a DAY 1 "DLC patch" would work!

So you would be ok with buying a game without a begining?

I already got one incomplete game this year when I purchased Final Fantasy 13-2 and didn't get an ending. I'm not keen for a Mass Effect game taht jumps right into the second act.

It has a beginning, it just lacks additional context and content we would of liked added onto the introduction.

I can only speak for myself for this next part but I would be willing to buy a DLC which expanded and removed the very rushed feeling of the introduction, extend the context and dig deeper into the previous 6 months missing from the start of the game that would like to "play" and experience through my imported Shepard. Including a trial which iakus adequately described with this quote. Now I may be alone in desiring it enough to pay for the content and I would feel as though Bioware nickle and dimed me slightly but it is still content I would like to have.

iakus wrote...

Not just a recap, but a way to establish what your Shepard thought about the events. Is your Shepard proud of working for Cerberus? Ashamed? Ambivalent? Does he/she regret what happened at the Alpha Relay, or resgined to getting the job done? How do you defend your actions? How does the Alliance react to that? It could have been an amazing role playing opportunity for a series which even the developers admit had gotten a little lite on the roleplaying. 

This thread from my point of view and the feedback one Chris created is just means to let them know that the content is desired by many people and that the introduction for many did leave them feeling like it was far too rushed through. This long term I hope will inspire them to release such content in the future so I can buy, download and start the game maybe further down the line (after multiple play throughs) the way I had wished it had started to begin with.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 15 février 2012 - 04:37 .

[Good Chaos7]

Don't know the whole issue, if it's been cut from the game or if it's just for the demo..

But for the sake of Bioware's attention!  The trial should be in the game.. for new comers, for people like myself who LOVE the ME series & want to proudly go, "Yes! Your honer, I did fraternize with..." (whatever Alenko was⌐.⌐) or "Yes, I committed genocide! The Rachni's had to be destroyed!", or for those who have played ME 1&2, but haven't touched it in forever(my brother) & needs a recap of what they did in the past!

I do hope this thread get's their attention!

[Meshakhad2]

Yeah. I guess it just didn't flow well. Too bad; I was planning on bringing in Wrex as my attorney. If that alone doesn't amuse you, imagine Wrex in a suit.

[Dragoonlordz]

txgoldrush wrote...

-snip-

No offense (ok maybe some), but I have no intention of communicating with you anymore txgoldrush. Your blatant trolling for the past 50+ pages has run it's course and patience has run out for a great many of people here with regards to yourself. This thread was for the most part civil, pleasant, informative and friendly prior to your coming in guns blazing over 50 pages ago attacking people left, right and centre. Bickering with almost every single person who took part in this topic. You since stuck around and continued to do so adding almost nothing to the conversation other than arguments and bickering.

From this point on I will not be feeding you. 

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 15 février 2012 - 04:43 .

[DJBare]

This is my last game from Bioware, it's not all Biowares fault though, they are just the straw that broke the camels back, I'm seeing too much of this in the gaming industry as a whole, say one thing, deliver another, it's become too difficult to accept "but things change during development", the industry needs to learn to keep quiet until they have something solid.

[LordJeyl]

txgoldrush wrote...
Ummm...Kasumi?

Kasumi is an optional character who may or may not be in ME3.

[kalle90]

DJBare wrote...

This is my last game from Bioware, it's not all Biowares fault though, they are just the straw that broke the camels back, I'm seeing too much of this in the gaming industry as a whole, say one thing, deliver another, it's become too difficult to accept "but things change during development", the industry needs to learn to keep quiet until they have something solid.

Got to QFT. At this time of stock investors taking over the game world and internet allowing and requiring constant flow of information (whether true or false, important part is that there is noise) there is just no trusting anyone. Valve is constantly harrassed about Half Life 3 "why it's not out yet", "we need info". I for one am happy they still stick to "we have nothing to say" agenda.

ME3 finishes the story arc and is the last New Hope (pun intended). At this rate DA3 and new IPs can stay away from my shelf.

[Dragoonlordz]

kalle90 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

This is my last game from Bioware, it's not all Biowares fault though, they are just the straw that broke the camels back, I'm seeing too much of this in the gaming industry as a whole, say one thing, deliver another, it's become too difficult to accept "but things change during development", the industry needs to learn to keep quiet until they have something solid.

Got to QFT. At this time of stock investors taking over the game world and internet allowing and requiring constant flow of information (whether true or false, important part is that there is noise) there is just no trusting anyone. Valve is constantly harrassed about Half Life 3 "why it's not out yet", "we need info". I for one am happy they still stick to "we have nothing to say" agenda.

ME3 finishes the story arc and is the last New Hope (pun intended). At this rate DA3 and new IPs can stay away from my shelf.

I will never give up pestering Squeenix for remake of FFVII though Half life 3 is not on my agenda.. 

[PhantomSpectre]

DJBare wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Mass Effect 3 starts (roughly) 6 months after the end of Mass Effect 2. It starts with the end of the trial of Commander Shepard during which the Reapers first arrive on earth. This is the bit that starts the game and the demo.



{smilie}

So, there won't be any kind of Trial scene in final game (not counting DLC possibilities, which are not that likely either).

Can't say I'm not disappointed about this as there were a lot of potential with this trial scene.

I just wonder, why exactly devs/writers decided to cut the Trial part from the game.

[daftPirate]

I supported the Trial, too, but I don't feel like too much is lost by its absence.

[RSX Titan]

billy the squid wrote...

deucemojo wrote...

Like some people already mentioned, there should have been a trial for those who completed the Arrival DLC and imported their character onto ME 3. A unique experience for the dedicated fan base.

I wish a dev/Chris would officially confirm that there is NO trial scene in the retail version....or perhaps the silence means there is one??

It didn't even have to be for the previous purchasers. Simply some explaination on the  current events and context would have gone a long way to easing new players into what is going on other than, the summation of. Shep on Earth, blows something up, talk to people, Reapers land. Chris has essentially confirmed ths is it, for a trial scene.

Context is important if you haven't played the first couple of games and I despair at the idea that marketing treats it's consumers as if they are troglodites who can't focus on something which isn't bright and flashy. Give you're base some credit for Christ sake. Even those who play CoD and Bf3 don't come to another enre and then complain it's not an FPS. It could very well have been the reason why they chose to play it, because it wasn't a CoD game. Rather we get a homogonisation of games.

Spot on. Despite what some think, COD/BF3/Halo junkies are not going to pay ME because of the combat. They play the series because of the other elements. That is of course just my opinion.

[Errationatus]

billy the squid wrote...

Promising or not is irrelevant to the point at issue, so don't bring it up, it's an attempt to distract from the point at hand.

 

Bullsh!t.  If there never was a trial to begin with in the game, never one intended, there was never one to be removed, never a line of code written or VA recorded, then the trial never was, and whining about it is an act of futility and b!tching that people "should have had one" is stupid.  Unnecessary trial is unnecessary.

 
If they did a poor job in laying the groundwork then people will say so. Hardly a ridiculous assertion is it?

What is so hard about this?  Did people not play 'Arrival'?  Did they pay any attention to anything said in Arrival by Hackett? Have you never heard of something called "inference"?

The trial is irrelevant.  Anyone with a functioning frontal lobe should be able to fill that in for themselves, or do you really want the game to hold your hand all the way through?  Sheeeit.  What's next?  Operating instructions on bags of chips?  Let me fill it in for you:

When we first see Shepard, he is in detention.  He lost his commission.  He lost his job.  Let's make it clear:  He lost the gawddamned trial!  He was court-martialed.  We do not need the trial to know this. That people cannot read backwards from the clues given is their fault, not Bioware's.

Jee-zis.

Modifié par JakeMacDon, 15 février 2012 - 01:45 .

[Errationatus]

Thefireandthepassion wrote...

Because if he's being held in detention Vega wouldn't be armed and in street clothes right? If he were in detention he'd have a room over-looking a park right? Clearly, he isn't really in detention because if you looked closer you'd see he was just relieved of his duties. Fantastic comprehension skills there, buddy.

What part of the sign that clearly says "DETENTION CENTRE" on the wall outside his door in big blue letters did you miss, "pal"??

[DJBare]

JakeMacDon wrote...

When we first see Shepard, he is in detention.  He lost his commission.  He lost his job.  Let's make it clear:  He lost the gawddamned trial!  He was court-martialed.  We do not need the trial to know this. That people cannot read backwards from the clues given is their fault, not Bioware's.

Jee-zis.

Which just brings up bad writing again with Andersons inferrence that Shepard was NOT court martialed
I'll try to remember the relevant quote

Anderson: if it had been anyone else they would have been court martialed and drummed out of the service.

[Thoth_Amon]

Haha, I guess Bioware has lost all sense of building suspense and decided to go the "ohhh explosions!" route. Such a shame.

[RSX Titan]

I think most fans would probably be okay with there not being a trial/hearing at the beginning if the opening was more polished. As it stands now, its lackluster and that has people worried it will carry over to the rest of the game.

[billy the squid]

JakeMacDon wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Promising or not is irrelevant to the point at issue, so don't bring it up, it's an attempt to distract from the point at hand.

 

Bullsh!t.  If there never was a trial to begin with in the game, never one intended, there was never one to be removed, never a line of code written or VA recorded, then the trial never was, and whining about it is an act of futility and b!tching that people "should have had one" is stupid.  Unnecessary trial is unnecessary.

 
If they did a poor job in laying the groundwork then people will say so. Hardly a ridiculous assertion is it?

What is so hard about this?  Did people not play 'Arrival'?  Did they pay any attention to anything said in Arrival by Hackett? Have you never heard of something called "inference"?

The trial is irrelevant.  Anyone with a functioning frontal lobe should be able to fill that in for themselves, or do you really want the game to hold your had all the way through?  Sheeeit.  What's next?  Operating instructions on bags of chips?  Let me fill it in for you:

When we first see Shepard, he is in detention.  He lost his commission.  He lost his job.  Let's make it clear:  He lost the gawddamned trial!  He was court-martialed.  We do not need the trial to know this. That people cannot read backwards from the clues given is their fault, not Bioware's.

Jee-zis.

Yes, because if one has a problem you roll over and take it. Instead of saying you did a bad job in providing context and explaination. But, it's okay, because it was never intended, it makes it all better? No, don't be stupid.

The trial was irrelevant because it has been made so, it is a throw away scene to stear the player into an action sequence, frankly you could have removed the entire part and it would have made no difference. If you are going to create a scene which has the potential to ease new players into the game, as Silverman has said ME3 was attempting to do by making it a starting point, then they did a poor job of it.

I've played the previous instalments and it is not an issue of understanding the sequence it is an issue of it being poorly executed and rushed. Is that sufficiently clear, or must I illustrate it for you, as you clearly missed the point and went wandering of on your own irrelevant tangent, congratualtions.

Yes he is on Earth and we see the end of the Trial, great so what's been going on for the last 6 months? What were the effects of the destruction of the relay on Batartians and Alliance space, The Council. What does Anderson or Vega think, what does the Alliance think of the act and the current context. What of the Colonies going quiet, how has this not been noticed or has the Alliance been sitting around for over 6 months with that information and only now brought it up. Alternatively, if they only just realised, then the issue is the Reapers have exterminated the outer colonies moved to the moon base and landed on Earth and killed everything inbetween in a matter of hours.

I expect these things to have refrences made to them, in a more adult game, to give explaination and context to the situation. Not simply glossed over in favour of an action sequence and hammy dialogue. If you are happy with sub par and simplistic exposition on introductory sequences then there is little I can do to further explain the issues arising as it will be clearly lost on you.

Modifié par billy the squid, 15 février 2012 - 02:03 .

[Halo Quea]

I think it would have been cool if Bioware hadn't forced "The Arrival" on us. They've take a DLC mission (something not everyone has played) and made it MORE IMPORTANT than the all of Mass Effect 2's entire story. THEN, they completely side step it and all of it's consequences.

I understand that perhaps the trial would have left new gamers (yup, those people who Bioware thinks are going to jump in for the final act) in the dark and confused about what their decisions should be. But isn't that what the 3 modes of gameplay were created for? Couldn't new gamers just let the game make all the choices for them and those us who have been invested in ME from the beginning get a more complete experience?

Bah! I don't know what to think anymore. I've got my pre-order and I'm still a #1 day CE purchaser, BUT I doubt very seriously if I will ever invest as much of myself into a Bioware series again.

[IST]

sir PING1 wrote...

i was looking forward to defending myself, it woulda make for a great moment for some paragon or renegade speeches

Exactly what I was thinking.. I have that sinking DA2 feeling coming into my stomach, that is genuinly making me ill (please, please, please, PLEASE don't **** ME3 up BW).

The demo was shoddy as best.

Then again, rpg demos usually are (that is why they are generally deemed a bad idea... as the story/depth can't be resonated properly for 45 mins).

[Errationatus]

DJBare wrote...

Which just brings up bad writing again with Andersons inferrence that Shepard was NOT court martialed
I'll try to remember the relevant quote

Anderson: if it had been anyone else they would have been court martialed and drummed out of the service.

Yup - if he had been anyone else.  There were mitigating circumstances - like, Spectre-hood, and top admirals vouching for him, and the fact that the Alliance knows about Reapers (Kasumi's greybox boyfriend anyone?) already and the trial would have just been political posturing at best and filler at the worst.

Regardless, the trial - if it were ever actually made for inclusion in the game -  would have been immediately rendered irrelevant by the arrival of the Reapers.  

Everyone that could have passed final judgment on Shepard is fecking dead.  

You cannot get more irrelevant than that.

Modifié par JakeMacDon, 15 février 2012 - 02:41 .

[Gabey5]

Thoth_Amon wrote...

Haha, I guess Bioware has lost all sense of building suspense and decided to go the "ohhh explosions!" route. Such a shame.

i know. Blowing the crap out of earth before we even get to hang out there for a bit and feel the vibe out is crazy.

Like the attack on the citadel in me1 would have had little impact on us if we were only there for 5 minutes

JakeMacDon wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Which just brings up bad writing again with Andersons inferrence that Shepard was NOT court martialed
I'll try to remember the relevant quote

Anderson: if it had been anyone else they would have been court martialed and drummed out of the service.

Yup - if he had been anyone else.  There were mitigating circumstances - like, Spectre-hood, and top admirals vouching for him, and the fact that the Alliance knows about Reapers
(Kasumi's greybox boyfriend anyone?) already and the trial would have
just been political posturing at best and filler at the worst.

Regardless,
the trial - if it were ever actually made for inclusion in the game -
 would have been immediately rendered irrelevant by the arrival fo the
Reapers.  

Everyone that could have passed final judgment on Shepard is fecking dead.  

You cannot get more irrelevant than that.

Not really. The brass does not know the specifics of the situation leading up to arrival. The trial would have given us a recap on events, eased us in. Secondly the admirals dying has little impact if we barely get to see them. If we got to know a few personally like in Tali's trial judges, even a few bits about their personailty before getting smacked in the face with "the reapers are here".  If we don't feel any connection with anyone,  there is no real sense of loss. The normandy getting blown up was more emotional than the attack on earth.

If we got like a few scenes to walk around, shepard going to a shooting range before the trial begins, a nice tutorial out of the way, then the attack

Modifié par Gabey5, 15 février 2012 - 02:28 .

[DJBare]

JakeMacDon wrote...
Everyone that could have passed final judgment on Shepard is fecking dead.  

You cannot get more irrelevant than that.

And you know this how?, I'm sorry, I did not see the body count or the listed dead, Anderson and Shepard got out, others got out, oh and lets not forget the records stored on datapads.

But you are right about one thing, all that is irrelevant to this discussion, this is about a scene that the press were informed was going to be the opening for the game, the "press" the folk that pass the news on to us, this is why I said earlier, the industry needs to learn to keep quiet until they have something solid.

[JoePilot]

PhantomSpectre wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Mass Effect 3 starts (roughly) 6 months after the end of Mass Effect 2. It starts with the end of the trial of Commander Shepard during which the Reapers first arrive on earth. This is the bit that starts the game and the demo.



{smilie}

So, there won't be any kind of Trial scene in final game (not counting DLC possibilities, which are not that likely either).

Can't say I'm not disappointed about this as there were a lot of potential with this trial scene.

I just wonder, why exactly devs/writers decided to cut the Trial part from the game.

Because their metrics told them that they only had 15 minutes from the start of the game to the ACTION PEW PEW, or else gamers would get bored and quit.  I **** you not.  They had to cram as much 'story' as possible into those precious few moments, and the trial didn't make the cut.   Welcome to the state of the games industry.

Design by committee, turn out sh*tty.

[Errationatus]

billy the squid wrote...
Yes, because if one has a problem you roll over and take it.

 

I'm not rolling over on anything.  This thread is predicated on one thing:  how many people can completely miss a simple point:  there was no trial intended to be in the game.  Period.  All the proceeding whiny b!tchiness stemming from that one simple point is utterly irrelevant because the trial was never there.  This is not rocket science.  That folks wanted one is completely understandable.  Wanting and getting are two different things and it is entirely Bioware's fault for assuming the bulk of their fandom have functioning intelligences.

 
Instead of saying you did a bad job in providing context and explaination. But, it's okay, because it was never intended, it makes it all better? No, don't be stupid.

 

I didn't say it made it better.  I said it was irrelevant from the get-go because it would have simply told us what we already knew. New players have access to vast amounts of exposition in wikis and the like, and will likely get explanations as they require them in the game.  It's called "backstory" and it's not hard to do.  Old players don't need it.

 
The trial was irrelevant because it has been made so, it is a throw away scene to stear the player into an action sequence, frankly you could have removed the entire part and it would have made no difference. If you are going to create a scene which has the potential to ease new players into the game, as Silverman has said ME3 was attempting to do by making it a starting point, then they did a poor job of it.

 

Nor did I disagree that the opening was poor.  But let's keep one thing at the forefront of any discussion about what we've seen so far:  

THIS IS THE DEMO.  Not the final game.  Not even remotely, and I don't care what "they" said about the openings being identical.  Taking a dump on an unrelased game based on a short edited demo is unadulteratedly stupid. Squealing about as if it were actually the finished product is also stupid.  The howl of outrage of "destroyed muh game!" over this tiny-ass demo is unbelievable.  I cannot imagine from whence it came, because from what I can see, it is for the most part groundless.

 
I've played the previous instalments and it is not an issue of understanding the sequence it is an issue of it being poorly executed and rushed. Is that sufficiently clear, or must I illustrate it for you, as you clearly missed the point and went wandering of on your own irrelevant tangent, congratualtions.

 

As if I have never played either game.  Yeah, okay.  

One more time:  DEMO.  By it's very nature, rushed and quickly done.  You are b!tching about a game you have not played based on a short, spoiler-edited DEMO.  I am not having the problem here, but a great many of us surely are.

 
Yes he is on Earth and we see the end of the Trial, great so what's been going on for the last 6 months? What were the effects of the destruction of the relay on Batartians and Alliance space, The Council. What does Anderson or Vega think, what does the Alliance think of the act and the current context. What of the Colonies going quiet, how has this not been noticed or has the Alliance been sitting around for over 6 months with that information and only now brought it up. Alternatively, if they only just realised, then the issue is the Reapers have exterminated the outer colonies moved to the moon base and landed on Earth and killed everything inbetween in a matter of hours.

 

Did you not pay attention to the opening?  It took the Reapers six months to arrive.  They arrived just at the end of Shep's trial.  Did you not pay attention to Hackett at the end of Arrival?  "When you're done out here I expect you to turn yourself in."  How long did it take Shep - in-game - to finish all he had to do?  Just because you might have played Arrival last didn't mean everyone did and timelines in ME2 are funny things.  Just because 6 months passed bettween ME2 and 3 does not mean Shepard was anywhere near Earth for those six months.  

Boy.  That was hard.  

 
I expect these things to have refrences made to them, in a more adult game, to give explaination and context to the situation. Not simply glossed over in favour of an action sequence and hammy dialogue. If you are happy with sub par and simplistic exposition on introductory sequences then there is little I can do to further explain the issues arising as it will be clearly lost on you.

Once more:  DEMO.  DEMO.  DEM-OH. Compressed and heavily edited DEMO.