2915 réponses à ce sujet

[Alixen]

Very sllightly off subject of the trial, though still in the general theme, but after all this back and forth and in a 67 page thread, i'm sure a few opinons on it won't hurt...

I concur with RGFrog. 'Anderson's line in the demo was flippant, glib, superficial and really threw me off. It did nothing but raise more questions that should be already be answered, imo.'

Did anyone really, really want a Renegade interupt to punch him out when he threw out that line? He was sat at the presidium, while Shepard watched friends and innocnets die, dying him/herself, to halt the Reapers advance. Even at his most Renegade, Shepard has never done anything but do what he has to to fight the Reapers, and even the events in Arrival are not really Shepard's fault. He acted, and stopped the Reapers from arriving THEN and THERE.

Anderson throwing out that remark really damaged my liking for his character, especially after I struggled to 'forgive' him over the VS and Horizon. What happened to 'in my books, you are a damn hero'? What he says in the demo sounds more like 'you are a damn loose cannon, and the only thing stopping you getting slapped down is what you know'.

Did anyone else get this vibe? From the guy who was supposed to be our most stalwart supporter all along?

I suppose it is on topic, because it likely stems from the six months we have missed. It may be stretching even his belief that the the events of Arrival were to stop the Reapers.

[TheRevanchist]

So uh...something occured to me...maybe since the trial scene is so similar...maybe it becomes a trial when you import?...idk just a thought...a last flicker of hope really...

[Alixen]

-double post, got an error the first time, though apparantly it went through.-

Modifié par Alixen, 15 février 2012 - 05:33 .

[TheRevanchist]

Alixen wrote...

Very sllightly off subject of the trial, though still in the general theme, but after all this back and forth and in a 67 page thread, i'm sure a few opinons on it won't hurt...

I concur with RGFrog. 'Anderson's line in the demo was flippant, glib, superficial and really threw me off. It did nothing but raise more questions that should be already be answered, imo.'

Did anyone really, really want a Renegade interupt to punch him out when he threw out that line? He was sat at the presidium, while Shepard watched friends and innocnets die, dying him/herself, to halt the Reapers advance. Even at his most Renegade, Shepard has never done anything but do what he has to to fight the Reapers, and even the events in Arrival are not really Shepard's fault. He acted, and stopped the Reapers from arriving THEN and THERE.

Anderson throwing out that remark really damaged my liking for his character, especially after I struggled to 'forgive' him over the VS and Horizon. What happened to 'in my books, you are a damn hero'? What he says in the demo sounds more like 'you are a damn loose cannon, and the only thing stopping you getting slapped down is what you know'.

Did anyone else get this vibe? From the guy who was supposed to be our most stalwart supporter all along?

I suppose it is on topic, because it likely stems from the six months we have missed. It may be stretching even his belief that the the events of Arrival were to stop the Reapers.

I didn't quite get that vibe...not exactly anyway...but to be fair...theres only so much even the best of friends are willing to believe and accept. But I think that just makes the lack of context even more jarring...because we have no idea wtf is happening...about anything.

[Dragoonlordz]

Alixen wrote...

Very sllightly off subject of the trial, though still in the general theme, but after all this back and forth and in a 67 page thread, i'm sure a few opinons on it won't hurt...

I concur with RGFrog. 'Anderson's line in the demo was flippant, glib, superficial and really threw me off. It did nothing but raise more questions that should be already be answered, imo.'

Did anyone really, really want a Renegade interupt to punch him out when he threw out that line? He was sat at the presidium, while Shepard watched friends and innocnets die, dying him/herself, to halt the Reapers advance. Even at his most Renegade, Shepard has never done anything but do what he has to to fight the Reapers, and even the events in Arrival are not really Shepard's fault. He acted, and stopped the Reapers from arriving THEN and THERE.

Anderson throwing out that remark really damaged my liking for his character, especially after I struggled to 'forgive' him over the VS and Horizon. What happened to 'in my books, you are a damn hero'? What he says in the demo sounds more like 'you are a damn loose cannon, and the only thing stopping you getting slapped down is what you know'.

Did anyone else get this vibe? From the guy who was supposed to be our most stalwart supporter all along?

I suppose it is on topic, because it likely stems from the six months we have missed. It may be stretching even his belief that the the events of Arrival were to stop the Reapers.

I would have rather punched Shepard for some the auto responses came out with during the demo. With regard to Andersons specific response you highlighted I felt it more far more inline with what Udina would say not Anderson. I wonder if they have given a generic response to both Udina and Anderson where they both say the same thing, which lacks their own previous persona's created from previous titles. This would not be a good thing as far as I am concerned, and thats if Udina even appears which going by script someone linked earlier will be Anderson at that point in the game always regardless.

I did not wish to punch Anderson for saying it but it did seem for me (personally) to be out of character for him to say.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 15 février 2012 - 06:49 .

[YankeeBravo]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

YankeeBravo wrote...

Actually, it kind of is a content issue.

Not in that the trial is missing when it should be playable in game, but rather the problems the apparent script change have created in terms of story structure early on (at least in the demo version).

As things stand right now we have Bioware who have said that Arrival would be integral in Mass Effect 3, that Shepherd would be called on to answer for his actions, etc. And what we have in game is a Shepherd being consulted on defense matters with no explanation of what happened, whether he faced court-martial (though it's suggested not, by Anderson's comment) and if he wasn't court-martialed, why he was apparently being held in a detention area, why he was relieved of his command and why he is apparently no longer a part of the Alliance military (although that changes too when dogtags are tossed to him).

So...It's extremely shoddy when you have a situation where noone really knows what's going on with Shepherd at the start of the game or what's happened over the past 6 months that Chris alluded to between Arrival and ME 3.

I suspect Bioware loves it, though. They're able to say 'See? Very accessible to new players since even returning players have no idea what the hell's going on either.  Great jumping in point'.

So....

Since none of us have seen the import of a playthrough where Arrival was completed,we don't really know exactly how the game will feel for an us. What we've seen is literally the experience for a new player. That's what the geared the demo for. So it remains to be seen how different it will be. If the leaked beta is any indication, there are a few small dialogue tweaks and not much else, but still.

That's still a problem, though. For a new player coming into the game, they see Shepherd led out of a room and passing by "Detention" signs on the walls.

They get Anderson saying "The **** you pulled, if it had been anyone else, they'd have been court-martialed and discharged", as well as Shepherd's lines on being grounded and not taking orders anymore.

So, it's still an issue where you have no clue what's going on with the character and the conflict between Anderson implying he avoided a court-martial/discharge and the character implying that s/he was convicted/discharged and locked up in a holding cell.

So, like I said, it's not a matter of "we don't get to play through the trial" so much as it's a matter of that missing trial's screwed up the script to the point that you have two mutually exclusive scenarios being played out by Anderson and Shepherd.

[Arcadian Legend]

From what I gleaned from the hearing the trial already happened. The hearing was about the Alliance confirming what they already knew, and their unreadiness of the reapers. Hece why the word Batarian was never even brought up.

[Dragoonlordz]

YankeeBravo wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

YankeeBravo wrote...

Actually, it kind of is a content issue.

Not in that the trial is missing when it should be playable in game, but rather the problems the apparent script change have created in terms of story structure early on (at least in the demo version).

As things stand right now we have Bioware who have said that Arrival would be integral in Mass Effect 3, that Shepherd would be called on to answer for his actions, etc. And what we have in game is a Shepherd being consulted on defense matters with no explanation of what happened, whether he faced court-martial (though it's suggested not, by Anderson's comment) and if he wasn't court-martialed, why he was apparently being held in a detention area, why he was relieved of his command and why he is apparently no longer a part of the Alliance military (although that changes too when dogtags are tossed to him).

So...It's extremely shoddy when you have a situation where noone really knows what's going on with Shepherd at the start of the game or what's happened over the past 6 months that Chris alluded to between Arrival and ME 3.

I suspect Bioware loves it, though. They're able to say 'See? Very accessible to new players since even returning players have no idea what the hell's going on either.  Great jumping in point'.

So....

Since none of us have seen the import of a playthrough where Arrival was completed,we don't really know exactly how the game will feel for an us. What we've seen is literally the experience for a new player. That's what the geared the demo for. So it remains to be seen how different it will be. If the leaked beta is any indication, there are a few small dialogue tweaks and not much else, but still.

That's still a problem, though. For a new player coming into the game, they see Shepherd led out of a room and passing by "Detention" signs on the walls.

They get Anderson saying "The **** you pulled, if it had been anyone else, they'd have been court-martialed and discharged", as well as Shepherd's lines on being grounded and not taking orders anymore.

So, it's still an issue where you have no clue what's going on with the character and the conflict between Anderson implying he avoided a court-martial/discharge and the character implying that s/he was convicted/discharged and locked up in a holding cell.

So, like I said, it's not a matter of "we don't get to play through the trial" so much as it's a matter of that missing trial's screwed up the script to the point that you have two mutually exclusive scenarios being played out by Anderson and Shepherd.

Agreed, it creates a disconnect with story and plot. Overall big grand scheme of things slightly separate issue from "rushed" aspect of the introduction but part played in it being so even if minor, similar to trial which could of resolved that disconnect for new players.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 15 février 2012 - 05:44 .

[Matt VT Schlo]

Bioware has killed my optimism for the game. Period. My signature really sums it up. They are so worried about the new players, that the existing ones are taking a bullet. Bioware is so immersed in its own self denial that I honestly believe they don't realize they've turned into a crap company

[PsiKoAktive]

I just wish I knew who this James guy is :|

[izmirtheastarach]

While I hate to lump myself in with the ostrich-like denial monkeys, I'll wait till I've played the game before forming any kind of lasting opinion. Maybe the scenes after the intro will provide enough context to satisfy me. Only time will tell.

Going to go play some MP now.

[Iakus]

kylecouch wrote...

So uh...something occured to me...maybe since the trial scene is so similar...maybe it becomes a trial when you import?...idk just a thought...a last flicker of hope really...

It's something to hope for.  It's a small chance, but it could explain the "expanded dialogue options" mentioned in that tweet.

[Anthadlas]

Well Bioware has made the third game a good place to begin playing the series because new players have no ****ing idea what is going on and neither do players from the previous 2 games

Modifié par Wraith 02, 15 février 2012 - 05:57 .

[Duncaaaaaan]

IT'S JUST A DEMO GUYS EVERYTHING WILL BE FIXED AND PATCHED IN DON'T YOU WORRY OLD BUILD OLD BUILD.

[TheRevanchist]

Wraith 02 wrote...

Well Bioware has made the third game a good place to begin playing the series because new players have no ****ing idea what is going on and neither do players from the previous 2 games

Yep...because new players too dumb to ignore the first two parts of a THREE PART STORY can't be left out...afterall...all you need to watch is Episode VI to get the full story right? 

[RSX Titan]

I'm seriously starting to wonder whether Priestley is right or just misinformed about how the game starts. The opening makes no sense if you've played the previous games or if you are a new to the series. I can't imagine confusion on the part of both groups is what Bioware is shooting for.

[Anthadlas]

Duncaaaaaan wrote...

IT'S JUST A DEMO GUYS EVERYTHING WILL BE FIXED AND PATCHED IN DON'T YOU WORRY OLD BUILD OLD BUILD.

Well some guy just created a thread saying it was an old build from last year, shortly b4 chris said the qoute isn't valid and closed it

http://social.biowar...89078/1#9289692

Modifié par Wraith 02, 15 février 2012 - 06:18 .

[DJBare]

Wraith 02 wrote...

Duncaaaaaan wrote...

IT'S JUST A DEMO GUYS EVERYTHING WILL BE FIXED AND PATCHED IN DON'T YOU WORRY OLD BUILD OLD BUILD.

Well some guy just created a thread saying it was an old build from last year, shortly b4 chris said the qoute isn't valid and closed it

http://social.biowar...89078/1#9289692

Hope nobody is starting to think the trial is going to be in because of that, Chris has already stated the game starts at the end of the trial.

Modifié par DJBare, 15 février 2012 - 06:25 .

[Gexora]

okay, so this is how it went. I sat down to play the demo with my girlfriend. I am an old ME fan, but I didn't read the comics, she is new to this whole thing but wanted to play since I was talking about it non-stop.
Here is my line of thoughts: HEY ANDERSON what trial already no no trial why? When did they ground me? Wasn't I supposed to get acquaintensed with this Vega guy instead of us acting as if we know each other already? What? No one is seemengly bothered by my previous actions? Who the hell are these... O CRAP REAPERS.
Hers: What the heck is going on? Weren't you supposed to be tried? Who the heck are all those dudes? What? O CRAP GIANT FLYING SPACE PREDATORS.

So, whether BW tried to appease old players or new players, they have clearly failed.

[Anthadlas]

DJBare wrote...

Wraith 02 wrote...

Duncaaaaaan wrote...

IT'S JUST A DEMO GUYS EVERYTHING WILL BE FIXED AND PATCHED IN DON'T YOU WORRY OLD BUILD OLD BUILD.

Well some guy just created a thread saying it was an old build from last year, shortly b4 chris said the qoute isn't valid and closed it

http://social.biowar...89078/1#9289692

Hope nobody is starting to think the trial is going because of that, Chris has already stated the game starts at the end of the trial.

Most devs seem to be saying the trial happened prior to the start of ME3

Edit: Mac Walters ( Lead Writer) twitter
twitter.com/#!/macwalterslives/status/119125334833631232

I wish someone in the know would actually answer questions on these forums so we aren't all stumbling around in the dark all the time

Modifié par Wraith 02, 15 février 2012 - 06:29 .

[YankeeBravo]

DJBare wrote...

Wraith 02 wrote...

Duncaaaaaan wrote...

IT'S JUST A DEMO GUYS EVERYTHING WILL BE FIXED AND PATCHED IN DON'T YOU WORRY OLD BUILD OLD BUILD.

Well some guy just created a thread saying it was an old build from last year, shortly b4 chris said the qoute isn't valid and closed it

http://social.biowar...89078/1#9289692

Hope nobody is starting to think the trial is going to be in because of that, Chris has already stated the game starts at the end of the trial.

That and the fact that apparently Bioware had commented that the demo is from a late January/early Feb build pretty much blows the "maybe this is just an old build and the structural problems from removing the trial will be fixed by release" out of the water.

Instead it's looking more and more like they stripped that out of the script at some point and Mac Walters and/or the other Bioware writers never got around to going back through and making sure things were re-written in order to avoid exactly the "what the hell's going on" situation we have now with Anderson and Shepard apparently coming from parallel universes where the trial had two different outcomes.

So, great. Massive story/writing issues and dialogue conflicts in the first 5 minutes of the game. That bodes well.

[TheRevanchist]

Gexora wrote...

okay, so this is how it went. I sat down to play the demo with my girlfriend. I am an old ME fan, but I didn't read the comics, she is new to this whole thing but wanted to play since I was talking about it non-stop.
Here is my line of thoughts: HEY ANDERSON what trial already no no trial why? When did they ground me? Wasn't I supposed to get acquaintensed with this Vega guy instead of us acting as if we know each other already? What? No one is seemengly bothered by my previous actions? Who the hell are these... O CRAP REAPERS.
Hers: What the heck is going on? Weren't you supposed to be tried? Who the heck are all those dudes? What? O CRAP GIANT FLYING SPACE PREDATORS.

So, whether BW tried to appease old players or new players, they have clearly failed.

indeed...they have utterly failed in every way

[Errationatus]

Slayer299 wrote...
You don't work in retail or anything to do with public perception/publicity with your business, do you? Because bad publicity/public perception is a nightmare you don't want on your business' doorstep. Why would anyone want to buy something from you if they think what you are selling is crap or your service sucks eggs? So, no, any publicity is *not* good publicity and negative publicity reduces your cash income quickly. 

 

In the entertainment industry, it doesn't - unless you out-and-out murder someone.  Then you have to wait a few years to cash in on book sales.  Do you honestly think the average buyer (who has not played ME before) gives two sh!ts about the opinons of a bunch of yahoos in these rather notorious forums? 

 
Case in point, just look at DA2, lots of outrage (whether you think warranted or not), sales did decline there and it did not meet the double digit numbers they were looking for, much less other BW titles in same time span.

 

Outrage by fans of the first game.  See, I played DA2 first, and I didn't hate it.  Kinda liked it.  Bought all the DLC, too. Romanced Merrill and Isabella twice each.  Fenris once, hated the sh!t outta Anders.  Wished I could have seriously romanced Averline (weakness for wilful redheads).  Then I played DA:O.  Found it kinda slow and a bit plodding. Liked Morganna and Alistair and Shale, and bought all the DLC for it too.  But it was still bleed'n slow going.  I doubt I'm alone in this, and I'll warrant that could be said for ME 1 and 2 as well.  Wouldn't surprise me.

 
Thusly, BW made money, but not the 'tons of cash' either.

Yeah, well, outrage over DA2 didn't bankrupt them either.  I seem to recall similar rage over ME2 not so very long ago.  How much diddly did that mean in the long run?

[Dragoonlordz]

 Created a poll that may apply to this debate too so will link it here for those who wish to take part.

[RenownedRyan]

I feel like new players have been given precedent and those of us who have played the entire series have been shafted.