2915 réponses à ce sujet

[Dragoonlordz]

Klijpope wrote...

On a minor tangent, if we could have a full-blooded trial mission, what and who would we want to see in it?

If had trial I desire it to be a controntation between Shepard vs the Alliance (I am okay with or without his crew there to back him up). I am not interested in the councils opinion they made it clear through out the first two games multiple confrontations. What we did not have made clear and no trials unlike with council in ME1 and ME2 is such a controntation with the Alliance which is his/her people, spent most of his or her life serving and had the most impact on what made him/her the man or woman he or she was and respond to his actions and dialogue of past events.

A trial on Earth for me is the only way to get this confrontation via what I just mentioned and they removed that as a possiblity by nuking the planet to ruin and killing the top brass within moments of the game starting upon by which time none of what I stated above has happened for me to see or take part in.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 16 février 2012 - 05:25 .

[AK47 Total WAR]

EvilBeaver426 wrote...

I understand it's a demo, but it bothered me that there was no mention of Shep working with Cerberus, you know those guys who did some terrible things in ME1 & ME2. Oh, and one minor thing, no big deal you know just Shep blowing up a Mass Relay and killing hundreds of thousands of Batarians. Yeah...

Keep in mind that you didn't import a character in the demo.  Your playing as a Shep that a player new to the series would play as.  It would be awkward for a new player to be told "You worked with a terrorist group, stopped human abductions, killed a Reaper, and blew up a relay", don't ya think?

[Mclouvins]

Halo Quea wrote...


I certainly don't need to mention HOW the Arrival renders everything in ME2 pointless and unnecessary, but I will never understand the logic in obliterating everything just to begin the next chapter in a story.

I'm sorry I realize this is off-topic by I don't get this. Arrival sets up the transition but it doesn't change the fact that Shepard stopped a serious threat in the collectors and met the ME2 team who will play a role in the final installment. It would be like saying that ME1 was pointless because of ME2. Each part is a chapter in the narrative experience of ME. Since Arrival is basically set after ME2 (I know you can play it before the suicide mission, but we can probably all agree it fits better after) you can look at it as sort of its own chapter, say ME2.5 but that doesn't trivialize the previous entries.

[EvilBeaver426]

AK47 Total WAR wrote...

EvilBeaver426 wrote...

I understand it's a demo, but it bothered me that there was no mention of Shep working with Cerberus, you know those guys who did some terrible things in ME1 & ME2. Oh, and one minor thing, no big deal you know just Shep blowing up a Mass Relay and killing hundreds of thousands of Batarians. Yeah...

Keep in mind that you didn't import a character in the demo.  Your playing as a Shep that a player new to the series would play as.  It would be awkward for a new player to be told "You worked with a terrorist group, stopped human abductions, killed a Reaper, and blew up a relay", don't ya think?

Hmm...good point.  +5 gold stars to you sir. 

[Klijpope]

Hey, there's always the Cerberus News updates we were promised back last January. Wasn't it a week's worth before ME3 launches. Or has it been quietly forgotten?

Could be mention of some kind of hearing there?

[Il Divo]

Klijpope wrote...

On a minor tangent, if we could have a full-blooded trial mission, what and who would we want to see in it?

Establish what happened in the interim between Arrival and ME3. When/how did Shepard surrender the Normandy? What happened to the crew? Did the Illusive Man shut off contact with us altogether? Allow a quick recap of the important events of the past two games in a manner that builds conflict and tension between Shepard and the Humans in charge of overseeing the trial.
 
Up until now, we've only dealt with Humanity on Earth through very indirect means, namely Admiral Hackett and Anderson/Udina. This is the first time that the Audience has been able to directly observe the Human Government and the general view of Commander Shepard back on Earth. That should be taken advantage of.

Modifié par Il Divo, 16 février 2012 - 04:58 .

[izmirtheastarach]

Mclouvins wrote...
For all the "we fight or we die" hate, my point is that having Shepard before an Alliance tribunal saying "I destroyed the alpha relay to slow down the reapers" as a reaper blows open the ceiling would be so much worse. I told you so moments are alright but doing it that way would seem, at least in my opinion (take it for what is is) incredibly tacky and cliched.

Sounds pretty funny though.

[TMA LIVE]

Klijpope wrote...

Hey, there's always the Cerberus News updates we were promised back last January. Wasn't it a week's worth before ME3 launches. Or has it been quietly forgotten?

Could be mention of some kind of hearing there?

I doubt it. So far, the Alliance News simply mention that "Shepard could not be reached for comment, having been relieved of duty by the committee."

[RazorrX]

I could do without a live trial if there is some form of Transition cinematic prior to the demo starting. ME2 had the Miranda and TIM convo, then the Normandy and THEN into the game. ME3 needs something like that.

As it stands it seems almost a stand alone game and not the final part of a trilogy. I really hope the full game has *something* prior to how the demo starts.

[zorb69]

RazorrX wrote...

I could do without a live trial if there is some form of Transition cinematic prior to the demo starting. ME2 had the Miranda and TIM convo, then the Normandy and THEN into the game. ME3 needs something like that.

As it stands it seems almost a stand alone game and not the final part of a trilogy. I really hope the full game has *something* prior to how the demo starts.

There was mention of a 'previously on ME' movie (like for ME2) to start the game. This was way back last year and I haven't seen it mentioned since then so I don't know if it went beyond anything more than a proposal. If it does happen that way, and Martin Sheen narrates it again, it might be all I need to set up ME3. I have seen most of the extra ME material, comics and books (excluding Deception, which I will probably ignore) so that might be a factor.

[AxisEvolve]

RazorrX wrote...

I could do without a live trial if there is some form of Transition cinematic prior to the demo starting. ME2 had the Miranda and TIM convo, then the Normandy and THEN into the game. ME3 needs something like that.

As it stands it seems almost a stand alone game and not the final part of a trilogy. I really hope the full game has *something* prior to how the demo starts.

Agreed... It absolutely needs some sort of opening transition.

[Knight of Bronze]

AxisEvolve wrote...

RazorrX wrote...

I could do without a live trial if there is some form of Transition cinematic prior to the demo starting. ME2 had the Miranda and TIM convo, then the Normandy and THEN into the game. ME3 needs something like that.

As it stands it seems almost a stand alone game and not the final part of a trilogy. I really hope the full game has *something* prior to how the demo starts.

Agreed... It absolutely needs some sort of opening transition.

+1 agin.

Its allmost like they expect you to get swept up in the fast paced intro and not sit back and take in whats happening.

We at least need a sceen like the SR1 Normandy in ME2. Where either Hacket/Anderson come out to wherever the SR2 is and ask us to come to earth with them.

[YankeeBravo]

Halo Quea wrote...

You know all of this could have been avoided IF Bioware had simply not forced "The Arrival" into the canon. My Shepard did everything right (told TIM to go f himself and saved the Terminus), then he get's a call from Hackett that changes EVERYTHING.

"Arrival" turns my Shepard genocidal, ends his Spectre status and knocks his military career right off the track. And now..............Bioware doesn't even want to acknowledge that any of it even happened.

If Mac really wanted to do this without the trial he should have had Shepard simply reporting to Earth for a meeting with Anderson or Hackett, or he could have been overseeing the refit of the Normandy for the last 5-6 months when all hell breaks loose.

Simple, no trial, no lose ends to tie up.

I certainly don't need to mention HOW the Arrival renders everything in ME2 pointless and unnecessary, but I will never understand the logic in obliterating everything just to begin the next chapter in a story.

Or Mac could have avoided a lot of this by just, I don't know, MAKING SURE THE SCRIPT DIDN'T CONTRADICT ITSELF IN THE SAME CONVERSATION.

Like I and others said earlier, the problem isn't even that there isn't a court room scene in the game. I can understand if Bioware wanted to get into the action faster even after playing it up in interviews all year.

What's driving me nuts is that Mac Walters couldn't be bothered to make sure Shepherd and Anderson at least agreed on what the hell happened after the court scene was excised from the script. Anderson's take on it is that Shepherd's lucky that his reputation allowed him to avoid a court-martial. Shepherd, on the other hand, is convinced he's not only been court-martialed, but dismissed from the Alliance military and is living life on civvy street again.

Is it really so much to expect that Mass Effect 3's lead writer would at least have ensured they'd gotten that scene or two right after making a major change so the first look the world got at the game didn't make it seem schizophrenic about the setup?

Modifié par YankeeBravo, 16 février 2012 - 05:55 .

[Halo Quea]

Mclouvins wrote...

Halo Quea wrote...


I certainly don't need to mention HOW the Arrival renders everything in ME2 pointless and unnecessary, but I will never understand the logic in obliterating everything just to begin the next chapter in a story.

I'm sorry I realize this is off-topic by I don't get this. Arrival sets up the transition but it doesn't change the fact that Shepard stopped a serious threat in the collectors and met the ME2 team who will play a role in the final installment. It would be like saying that ME1 was pointless because of ME2. Each part is a chapter in the narrative experience of ME. Since Arrival is basically set after ME2 (I know you can play it before the suicide mission, but we can probably all agree it fits better after) you can look at it as sort of its own chapter, say ME2.5 but that doesn't trivialize the previous entries.

Sure it does.  Arrival takes everything that Shepard did in ME2 and renders it moot.  It makes his time on the Normandy traveling the Terminus worthless, even wasteful.   During that entire excercise Shepard learns nothing that could help against the Reapers.  This is NOW regardless of whether you gave TIM the Collector Base or not.

And the Collectors obviously were not a serious threat after all if one tiny frigate could destroy both ship and base.  It should have taken an effort very much like what we saw at the end of ME1 to deal with them, but all Shepard needed was two squad mates and charges to blow it up.  Considering that TIM had his own army.......he could have done all of that and claimed the base for himself.

You see my friend.  Arrival reveals how flawed the ME2 story is by making itself more important than the events of ME2.  What did ME2 actually prove?  That Shepard was brought back to life to be a part-time group therapist for his shipmates?  What did blowing up the Pragia facility prove?  Did it save even a single colonist? Did Shepard's time in the service of TIM and Cerberus alter how that organization operates?  Did he try to dismantle it?  Was he even  offered the opportunity to join?  Lol, at least Cerberus has a plan.

Arrival is just a plot mechanism, but what makes it bad is that it's now revealed as a mechanism that Bioware doesn't even want to acknowledge.   

[AlanC9]

Halo Quea wrote...
And the Collectors obviously were not a serious threat after all if one tiny frigate could destroy both ship and base.  It should have taken an effort very much like what we saw at the end of ME1 to deal with them, but all Shepard needed was two squad mates and charges to blow it up.  Considering that TIM had his own army.......he could have done all of that and claimed the base for himself.

Well, TIM still would only have the one IFF, so he only could get one ship through the relay.

And the reason the Collectors aren't a serious threat is that they haven't finished their Reaper yet. So ME2 isn't important because Shepard's too good at his job.

[InvincibleHero]

@Alan C9

Witht he speed of mass-production in the ME universe in six months every Cerberus ship could be outfitted with the IFF device.

The Collectors were only ever a catspaw of the reapers. They could make more if they wished though proxy control probably proved their limitations and it is likely they will be mothballed until the reapers agaibn see a need or use human drones in their place.

[Halo Quea]

YankeeBravo wrote...

Halo Quea wrote...

You know all of this could have been avoided IF Bioware had simply not forced "The Arrival" into the canon. My Shepard did everything right (told TIM to go f himself and saved the Terminus), then he get's a call from Hackett that changes EVERYTHING.

"Arrival" turns my Shepard genocidal, ends his Spectre status and knocks his military career right off the track. And now..............Bioware doesn't even want to acknowledge that any of it even happened.

If Mac really wanted to do this without the trial he should have had Shepard simply reporting to Earth for a meeting with Anderson or Hackett, or he could have been overseeing the refit of the Normandy for the last 5-6 months when all hell breaks loose.

Simple, no trial, no lose ends to tie up.

I certainly don't need to mention HOW the Arrival renders everything in ME2 pointless and unnecessary, but I will never understand the logic in obliterating everything just to begin the next chapter in a story.

Or Mac could have avoided a lot of this by just, I don't know, MAKING SURE THE SCRIPT DIDN'T CONTRADICT ITSELF IN THE SAME CONVERSATION.

Like I and others said earlier, the problem isn't even that there isn't a court room scene in the game. I can understand if Bioware wanted to get into the action faster even after playing it up in interviews all year.

What's driving me nuts is that Mac Walters couldn't be bothered to make sure Shepherd and Anderson at least agreed on what the hell happened after the court scene was excised from the script. Anderson's take on it is that Shepherd's lucky that his reputation allowed him to avoid a court-martial. Shepherd, on the other hand, is convinced he's not only been court-martialed, but dismissed from the Alliance military and is living life on civvy street again.

Is it really so much to expect that Mass Effect 3's lead writer would at least have ensured they'd gotten that scene or two right after making a major change so the first look the world got at the game didn't make it seem schizophrenic about the setup?

It does make you wonder what Walters and his writing team are thinking when they're in the planning stage. Don't they know that the sequel has to gel with what's already taken place? 

The way things are shaping up so far story wise, I wonder if we could end up with far LESS answers out of ME3 than we are expecting?

[YankeeBravo]

Halo Quea wrote...

It does make you wonder what Walters and his writing team are thinking when they're in the planning stage. Don't they know that the sequel has to gel with what's already taken place? 

The way things are shaping up so far story wise, I wonder if we could end up with far LESS answers out of ME3 than we are expecting?

I can see how it could happen if the scene being excised was a decision late in production as it seems to be.

I'd just like to think that the writers and Mac, as the responsible party, would have been aware of the implications a radical change that late could wreak on the dialogues/character development arcs/plotlines, etc involved and that they'd have gone over it to make sure the replacement worked and didn't outright conflict with pre-existing material/assets.

What worries me is that that kind of oversight is nothing less than sloppiness. Can it happen under deadline pressures? Yes, absolutely, but it doesn't excuse it. Particularly not in something within the first 10 minutes of starting the game and in something they know is going to be many people's first experience with the game.

It doesn't exactly leave you saying 'Wow! Look at these outstanding production values, bring on the rest of it'.

And yes, you're right...it does raise the question of what other writing/plot/script problems are going to pop up next?

Modifié par YankeeBravo, 16 février 2012 - 07:08 .

[Rudy Lis]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Excuse my ignorance but what does CVT mean? My car history has gone from Mr Bean style Austin Mini > Ford Mondeo > Proton Persona > MR2 MKII. I don't recall them having CVT simply because I do not remember what CVT means. 

Continuously variable transmission. Actually I should wrote "automatic transmission", but had to go and saved some time.

Dragoonlordz wrote...

You could drop down in gears to slow down the cars I have owned however but your in the passenger seat in my example so have no access to the clutch. Not to mention first thing you would do is slam on the brakes (implying a desire to slow down in first place is to me like implying you did not wish to be put in that position to begin with), in ME3s case it is not possible because of the situation/position your in and in my example refered to as being in the passenger seat with no access to brakes or clutch in order to slow down.

It was possible to drop gears in case of emergency without operating clutch, at least on those cars I used. At least on some of them. My vocabulary probably is not enough to describe it correctly, but you need to know every gear speed range, for example 0-30 kph for first, 20-50 kph for second, to prevent vehicle jerking while shifting down. And access to brake and clutch is less important than access to throttle - you can use it to equalize rotational speed in gearbox, while downshifting. Of course, like I said, it probably will kill your gearbox and maybe other car's elements, but hey - better them than you, I guess.
Plus, slamming brakes, even if you sitting at driver's place, could be dangerous. Not that I do not trust ABS (well, I don't, had some negative experience with it, maybe it were earlier models, but it's hard to beat first impression), so slamming brakes could only worsen situation you are in.

But yes, I have no idea what to do in case of ME3 demo, it's too cropped - like instead of good meal you found just frozen cup of earl grey and half-eaten can of heinz beans and in your wife's place you just got tampax/ and it's not her tampax, but one you used to clean your shotgun's barrel.
So, to rephrase EVA from earlier CnC : "their mission is a failure". Demo left very strange impression - instead of pushing you towards pre-order or at least ordinary purchase, its repels you from it. And no, I do not cancel my pre-order and not just because CC I ordered it with is expired several months ago.

[Gexora]

You know, Bioware could have done it the easy way. After the first "go meet them" order from Anderson we could have regained control of our Shepard and then, like with Tali trial, we could have had two options:
Option 1, for action-oriented players - just run to meet the defense comittee.
Option 2, for those who want to catch their breath - talk to some NPC, like learn WHO THE HELL is Vega, what happened to the trial, what happened to the crew, what do people think of Shepard now etc.

[TheLostGenius]

 Actually as far as we know that was not the OPENING scene, just an early game scene. 

[Rudy Lis]

Gexora wrote...

Option 2, for those who want to catch their breath - talk to some NPC, like learn WHO THE HELL is Vega, what happened to the trial, what happened to the crew, what do people think of Shepard now etc.

"It will be too difficult to new players".
WTF, why is so much care for new players? If they care, they will play first two games, if they don't, they won't! Why those who followed series from the beginning must suffer for all that?
*Pathetically-emotional mode off*

TheLostGenius wrote...
Actually as far as we know that was not the OPENING scene, just an early game scene.

Really? I thought they say game will starts same way.

Modifié par Rudy Lis, 16 février 2012 - 11:36 .

[Dave of Canada]

AlanC9 wrote...

And the reason the Collectors aren't a serious threat is that they haven't finished their Reaper yet. So ME2 isn't important because Shepard's too good at his job.

Considering more than two years of harvesting barely finished the upper-half of the new Reaper, I doubt they'd have finished by the time the Reapers arrived and by then it doesn't matter.

[Gexora]

Rudy Lis wrote...

Gexora wrote...

Option 2, for those who want to catch their breath - talk to some NPC, like learn WHO THE HELL is Vega, what happened to the trial, what happened to the crew, what do people think of Shepard now etc.

"It will be too difficult to new players".
WTF, why is so much care for new players? If they care, they will play first two games, if they don't, they won't! Why those who followed series from the beginning must suffer for all that?
*Pathetically-emotional mode off*

TheLostGenius wrote...
Actually as far as we know that was not the OPENING scene, just an early game scene.

Really? I thought they say game will starts same way.

Actually that won't, because new players could just avoid doing that and learn things on the go

Modifié par Gexora, 16 février 2012 - 11:48 .

[Prom001]

I wonder before shep comes to meet the committee.

In the room with Kaidan/Ash. on the walll is something like courtroom access and courtroom waiting room or something.