2915 réponses à ce sujet

[Rudy Lis]

seirhart wrote...

I still wish there was a trial, I have my shepard stand in front of all of these admirals and actually role play/defend myself in front of the admirals and who ever.

I think most of us here wish that. Just multiply NWN2 trial on Bioware talent... It could even be cutscene (skippable!) for those who don't want to waste their time on some "talking".
And tutorial could look better, should Anderson (or, better, Vega) escorted wounded and concussed Shepard back to Normandy through some rubble. Shepard injury, IMHO, could be that "justification" for tutorial (refreshing, for old guard) part. Just imagine, for beginning you walk slowly, your vision is blurred, Vega supports you and you control mostly him, not Shepard. Then some husks attack - Vega gives you gun and goes hand-to-hand with husks: you can help him, by shooting them. One husk drifts away from pack and rushes to you - melee-part tutorial. Should you help Vega he will (possibly jokingly) reprimand you for being reckless, risking yourself after injury. Final fight could be modified into Vega drawing enemy fire up front, while you shoot then from afar - you still injured and cannot move well. Could be even done via removing Shepard's shield generator and making him "invisible" for enemies (they still fire at our direction, but that just ambient).
Bioware talks so much about "giving us chance to feel human side of Shepard", but why not give us chance to feel it via his vulnarability? They killed him once, why not let him be wounded? IMHO good way to remind you of your mortality. Better than those "mission failure" screens because of "new"®™© "innovative"®™© "cover"®™© "system"®™©.

[DJBare]

Adanu wrote...

Ah, the 'noble' types. Always looking to be martyrs.

I hope to hell that ending isn't in. If this game *yet again* totally panders to Paragons, I'm going to be pissed.

Despite the reputation bar, I'm getting the impression this is going to be Biowares canon Shepard, and somehow I don't think Bioware envisoned Shepard being a nasty POS, he/she is the shining beacon through all the destruction and chaos, cliche I know, but I think you had better prepare yourself.

[Tom Jolly]

Trial or no trial, the intro IS abrupt.. Maybe 30 seconds of additional setting and dialogue shots would make us happier? Oh well. I'm optimistic that rest of the game will make me feel more at home.

[Dragoonlordz]

Rudy Lis wrote...

Bioware talks so much about "giving us chance to feel human side of Shepard", but why not give us chance to feel it via his vulnarability? They killed him once, why not let him be wounded? IMHO good way to remind you of your mortality. Better than those "mission failure" screens because of "new"®™© "innovative"®™© "cover"®™© "system"®™©.

I keep imagining when reading that the image of Shepard's spirit leaving the body after killed in game then slammed in face or bashed over head by box with "Resume" written on. Mortality pfft... In ME4 I expect a start from stratch approach when die in game. (Just kidding! DO NOT do that).  

I blame Bioware for not exporting that the the real world... DAM U BIOWARE! Wheres my "Resume" function added to real life. 

[1Nosphorus1]

Adanu wrote...

Ah, the 'noble' types. Always looking to be martyrs.

I hope to hell that ending isn't in. If this game *yet again* totally panders to Paragons, I'm going to be pissed.

In a game that's supposedly about choices, this would be my choice for my Shepard. I have many others and I'd go for different endings for each one, I doubt that there would only be one outcome for a Paragon Shep anyway.

[Dragoonlordz]

We do know that Reapers can win according to another thread which linked some interviews. This is at least good (imho). Will have to wait to see if they keep that promise though.

[MutoidMan]

Personally, I would've liked to have seen the tail end of the trial and had the opportunity to choose what kind of closing statement I'd make on my own behalf, which - along with my actions and the decisions I've made in ME1 & 2 - would've influenced the severity of my punishment and set the tone for how Shepard is initially regarded by Alliance personnel and the other races in the game; is he regarded as a hero who was unfairly railroaded in a show trial, an unpopular heartless bastard who deserved to get knocked down a few pegs even though he does get the job done, or are most people unsure of what to think? Some testimony from his teammates - welcome and unwelcome - would'be been pretty awesome, too.

[Dragoonlordz]

Tom Jolly wrote...

Trial or no trial, the intro IS abrupt.. Maybe 30 seconds of additional setting and dialogue shots would make us happier? Oh well. I'm optimistic that rest of the game will make me feel more at home.

You don't get much dialogue and setting in just 30 seconds. I think 10 minutes would have been better where get to see the world around you, interact with the people who will soon all be dead and debate and confront the alliance top brass admirals on your actions leading you to that point. Heaven forbid that they would ever let the player set the pace, where those who wish to get to the action as quickly as possible can head straight to the trial while those who wish to start at more relaxed pace to gain some immersion and exposition prior to the proverbial **** hitting the fan could do so and take some time to do as I just mentioned (if they so wished).

1. As it stands right now I have major concerns and disappointment over the introduction and goes beyond just the trial element explained here. Vega explaining things later does not actually resolve this at all as I explained in the linked reply as also explained in that link why reading two comics does also not resolve this for me. There is also a link in that reply I just linked which goes into even more detail about why it simply does not work for me if need further clarification.

2. Another concern is the heavy use of auto dialogue forcing a persona of their Shepard onto my own which is out of character, a feature that is shown very heavy in the demo and I expect will be same throughout the entire game where they replace my Shepard whch built over past two games into a generic canon robot responses more inline with their own canon Shepard persona.

3. Another concern but not major one right now is the mini games associated with hacking and such as talked about in Bypass thread, I liked those mini games (unlike the planet scanning mini game which I literally detest) all other mini games in ME2 I thought was very good and enjoyed. At this stage if go by demo we have none which is disappointment yet again for me personally. But we do not have an answer to such simple question is there or is there not hacking mini games in the retail version.

4. One more issue is a major one in how much effect importing really has on the game, Chris thread about try without import first brought questions and concern about how little will be effected by imports upon the major amount will merely be reliance on imagination and nostalgia to notice difference instead of seeing a clear difference. Example is no import you see Wrex and do same things with Wrex but import you see Wrex and do same things with Wrex, if lucky maybe few lines of different dialogue. Thats a concern for me.

Those are really my main concerns. The lack of trial was a big one but is an aspect that covers more than just a confrontation with admirals, wider issues with introduction plays a part too. At this stage I can only hope at some point their will be a prelude DLC for time on Earth spanning those 6 months and trial released at later date because I would buy that and would solve one of my issues. The rest mostly (probably) can't be solved by DLC though.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 17 février 2012 - 06:12 .

[AxisEvolve]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

We do know that Reapers can win according to another thread which linked some interviews. This is at least good (imho). Will have to wait to see if they keep that promise though.

I don't want to spoil anything, but they have confirmed a lot of things in interviews that they later changed. Read the  topic in the spoiler group called "did bioware lie?" if you want more info.

[phimseto]

Where is the "Did Bioware Lie" thread? I can't seem to track it down.

[AxisEvolve]

phimseto wrote...

Where is the "Did Bioware Lie" thread? I can't seem to track it down.

http://social.biowar...scussion/19187/ 

Lots of spoilers.

[YankeeBravo]

1Nosphorus1 wrote...

Adanu wrote...

Ah, the 'noble' types. Always looking to be martyrs.

I hope to hell that ending isn't in. If this game *yet again* totally panders to Paragons, I'm going to be pissed.

In a game that's supposedly about choices, this would be my choice for my Shepard. I have many others and I'd go for different endings for each one, I doubt that there would only be one outcome for a Paragon Shep anyway.

Unfortunately, "supposedly" seems to be the key word in all of this.

Remember Bioware saying ME 2 had gone too far in streamlining/minimizing the RPG aspect and they wanted to bring ME 3 back the other way?

I'd been skimming through EA's recent investor's reports and transcripts of earnings calls when I ran across a comment from EA's CEO that seems to go a long way toward explaining some of the issues that are brought up again and again in the thread and in other topics:

“One of the things that Ray Muzyuka and the team up in Edmonton have done is essentially step-by-step adjust the gameplay mechanics and some of the features that you’ll see at E3 to put this in a genre equivalent to shooter-meets-RPG… and essentially address a much larger market opportunity than Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2 began to approach.
“We’re huge believers in the IP and are purposefully shifting it to address a larger market opportunity.”

So...

I'm not going to say that Bioware's set out to mislead everyone about what ME 3 will be, but I do think they're in a situation to where they ARE trying to be everything to everyone, and we know how that works out.

In this instance, I doubt Bioware's ever going to come out and say 'Yes, we had to cut the intro down because our metrics showed we needed to get into the action faster', but....I kinda suspect they had EA executives saying just that.

Guess all we can do is wait and see what the end product is like and hope EA's shift to "address a larger market opportunity" isn't as bad as it sounds like.

[Taleroth]

YankeeBravo wrote...

 'Yes, we had to cut the intro down because our metrics showed we needed to get into the action faster', but....I kinda suspect they had EA executives saying just that.

It's still one of the slowest intros around. So if someone said that, they were ignored.

I'll have to get out a stopwatch to be certain. But it still runs you through a fairly lengthy and talky cutscene before it drops you into "action." But even that action is just an ultra safe tutorial mode. Nobody bothers shooting at Shepard until the Cannibals appear.

Modifié par Taleroth, 17 février 2012 - 09:14 .

[Dragoonlordz]

YankeeBravo wrote...

1Nosphorus1 wrote...

Adanu wrote...

Ah, the 'noble' types. Always looking to be martyrs.

I hope to hell that ending isn't in. If this game *yet again* totally panders to Paragons, I'm going to be pissed.

In a game that's supposedly about choices, this would be my choice for my Shepard. I have many others and I'd go for different endings for each one, I doubt that there would only be one outcome for a Paragon Shep anyway.

I'd been skimming through EA's recent investor's reports and transcripts of earnings calls when I ran across a comment from EA's CEO that seems to go a long way toward explaining some of the issues that are brought up again and again in the thread and in other topics:

“One of the things that Ray Muzyuka and the team up in Edmonton have done is essentially step-by-step adjust the gameplay mechanics and some of the features that you’ll see at E3 to put this in a genre equivalent to shooter-meets-RPG… and essentially address a much larger market opportunity than Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2 began to approach.
“We’re huge believers in the IP and are purposefully shifting it to address a larger market opportunity.”

Wow thats depressing to me, means either they are giving shareholders lip servce or giving us it. Out of the two I think we the players will be the ones getting it.  

Now I do not know how far they have taken it in that direction but it goes against what they promised from the start of bringing back more RPG elements they cut from ME2. I can't say what impact will have on my concerns listed above but it does tilt the balance away from resolution to my concerns listed higher up on this page. 

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 17 février 2012 - 09:16 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Taleroth wrote...

YankeeBravo wrote...

 'Yes, we had to cut the intro down because our metrics showed we needed to get into the action faster', but....I kinda suspect they had EA executives saying just that.

It's still one of the slowest intros around. So if someone said that, they were ignored.

I'll have to get out a stopwatch to be certain. But it still runs you through a fairly lengthy and talky cutscene before it drops you into "action." But even that action is just an ultra safe tutorial mode. Nobody bothers shooting at Shepard until the Cannibals appear.

Time is irrelevant generally speaking, it is content within that timeframe that matters. They could give us an introduction that lasts 2 hours but if all that occurs during those 2 hours is a black screen with rotating Shepard head which every now and again says "Meow" it's not going to make it any better then spending those 2 hours interacting and exploring, setting the exposition and creating immersion.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 17 février 2012 - 09:29 .

[YankeeBravo]

Taleroth wrote...

YankeeBravo wrote...

 'Yes, we had to cut the intro down because our metrics showed we needed to get into the action faster', but....I kinda suspect they had EA executives saying just that.

It's still one of the slowest intros around. So if someone said that, they were ignored.

I'll have to get out a stopwatch to be certain. But it still runs you through a fairly lengthy and talky cutscene before it drops you into "action." But even that action is just an ultra safe tutorial mode. Nobody bothers shooting at Shepard until the Cannibals appear.

From a shooter perspective? I could see it being on the longer side, sure. From an RPG or Mass Effect perspective? It's ridiculously short.

And either way, it fails to serve its purpose of establishing the scene. 

Having EA explicitly tell them "make it shorter and faster" would certainly explain why early builds shown to gaming media showed a trial intro and why the existing intro still shows signs of that intro (detention/courtroom access labels on walls) but has Anderson telling Shepard he was lucky to avoid going through that.

Otherwise, the late and dramatic change in how the game opens is absolutely baffling.

[InHumanTurtle]

Such a shame, was really looking forward to this part of the game. I hope the rest of the game doesn't lose such quality just to benefit the new players...

[Taleroth]

YankeeBravo wrote...

From a shooter perspective? I could see it being on the longer side, sure. From an RPG or Mass Effect perspective? It's ridiculously short.

Mass Effect dropped you into action right after landing on Eden Prime. KOTOR put you into a fight in less than 10 minutes. ME3 doesn't even get done with cutscenes in 10 minutes.

Baldur's Gate had a two or three fights right in Candlekeep.

Modifié par Taleroth, 17 février 2012 - 09:28 .

[YankeeBravo]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Wow thats depressing to me, means either they are giving shareholders lip servce or giving us it. Out of the two I think we the players will be the ones getting it.  

Now I do not know how far they have taken it in that direction but it goes against what they promised from the start of bringing back more RPG elements they cut from ME2. I can't say what impact will have on my concerns listed above but it does tilt the balance away from resolution to my concerns listed higher up on this page. 

Yeah, that's been the problem with EA for a while now. They're the company that's most interested in how to get maximum market penetration from every title they release. Of course, that's why they're an industry juggernaut, but...They pretty much epitomize homogenized gaming experiences and watered-down mechanics.

Hopefully Bioware hasn't succumbed to that culture too much, but it's definitely troubling.

[Rudy Lis]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

3. Another concern but not major one right now is the mini games associated with hacking and such as talked about in Bypass thread, I liked those mini games (unlike the planet scanning mini game which I literally detest) all other mini games in ME2 I thought was very good and enjoyed.

You liked minigames, especially hacking?

Okay, I have no problems with bypassing, easy and fast, even with sluggish cursor there. Failed it just once through all of my playthroughs.

Planet scanning wasn't as hard as it was exhaustively repetitive, annoying even for one playthrough. Space rangers were released years prior Mass Effect and handled that aspect much better. By my calculations, with Hammerhead pack (easy-to-follow list of rich planets) it will took around hour to scan required amount of mineral, even if spending time only on rich planets. If that process was "smeared" (or "distributed") more or less evenly throughout game (in "homeopathic doses", so to speak) it will took even more time. Add sluggish (again) cursor, even with my Logitech G5 mouse, with highest speed settings, reserved right for scanning...

Hacking is my most hated game, really. Not because it's hard, rather irritating with "random" algorythms. More than once through each playthrough I had situations when required code segment simply werent there or was there, but had blocked access, so it was meaningless to go for it. Hacking module helped a bit, yet again, game was exessively time consuming - if I solve bypass game usually using one third or even less available time (without upgrade, never needed it), with hacking upgrade it usually took more than half available time. What's that - karma, Luck<7 or just misbalanced game?

Same problem in FNV and F3 with hacking (on harder locks, of course), nothing has to do with your skill (unlike lockpicking, more or less copied from Splinter cell), just random - when you have bloody dozen of 12-letter words with ending "-ion" and you got "3 matches". Are you kidding me? And yes, I know about brackets (parentheses), very funny to receive "allowance replenished" in first click. Lack of concrete consistency on brackets combos allowing you that replenishment was even more irritating.

IMHO best hacking was done in abovementioned Splinter Cell series. Maybe not realistic, but best. Never irritating.
Yes, despicable me, sorry, you thought we were friends...

[YankeeBravo]

Taleroth wrote...

YankeeBravo wrote...

From a shooter perspective? I could see it being on the longer side, sure. From an RPG or Mass Effect perspective? It's ridiculously short.

Mass Effect dropped you into action right after landing on Eden Prime. KOTOR put you into a fight in less than 10 minutes. ME3 doesn't even get done with cutscenes in 10 minutes.

Baldur's Gate had a two or three fights right in Candlekeep.

Umm...Only if you rushed through to get onto Eden Prime.

Mass Effect let you wander the Normandy and get to know some of the characters before you were dropped on Eden Prime, so...Depending on how much you did before you rushed to the action, the "intro" lasted quite a while.

KOTOR had a plot reason behind starting the way it did, and even then you had the opportunity for a couple of conversations before you were thrown in to defending the ship.

And characterizing Mass Effect 3 as "not even finishing cutscenes in 10 minutes" is taking the hyperbole a bit too far.

[Taleroth]

YankeeBravo wrote...

And characterizing Mass Effect 3 as "not even finishing cutscenes in 10 minutes" is taking the hyperbole a bit too far.

No hyperbole. The time from game start to Anderson and Shepard on the ledge is just shy of 8 minutes. That's with the demo missing the exposition options.

Beyond that, there's the tutorial sequence. Boy in vent. Anderson/Shepard talking as they move debris. Then they eventually fight some Cannibals to get into the action.

Modifié par Taleroth, 17 février 2012 - 09:39 .

[AxisEvolve]

I'm surprised no one else from Bioware has commented in this thread...

[Dragoonlordz]

Rudy Lis wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

3. Another concern but not major one right now is the mini games associated with hacking and such as talked about in Bypass thread, I liked those mini games (unlike the planet scanning mini game which I literally detest) all other mini games in ME2 I thought was very good and enjoyed.

1. You liked minigames, especially hacking?

-snip-
2. Yes, despicable me, sorry, you thought we were friends...

1. Yes  

2. Yes we are still friends don't worry or at least as far as I am aware. A lot of my friends have different views to mine, variety = spice of life and all that. Reason they are my friends is because they are very intelligent like yourself, well mannered and polite plus express themselves in a very reasonable and in depth way towards aspects/topics they are responding towards and about.

[Atakuma]

AxisEvolve wrote...

I'm surprised no one else from Bioware has commented in this thread...

The ME team hardly ever comment on anything, so it's not surprising.