2915 réponses à ce sujet

[Rudy Lis]

YankeeBravo wrote...

I'm not going to say that Bioware's set out to mislead everyone about what ME 3 will be, but I do think they're in a situation to where they ARE trying to be everything to everyone, and we know how that works out.

You can't seat on two chairs, especially if one is at ship's bow and another at aft.

YankeeBravo wrote...

Guess all we can do is wait and see what the end product is like and hope EA's shift to "address a larger market opportunity" isn't as bad as it sounds like.

That's why I like Chris Taylor.

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Time is irrelevant generally speaking, it is content within that timeframe that matters. They could give us an introduction that lasts 2 hours but if all that occurs during those 2 hours is a black screen with rotating Shepard head which every now and again says "Meow" it's not going to make it any better then spending those 2 hours interacting and exploring, setting the exposition and creating immersion.

You know what? I'd prefer that "Meow" intro to one we've been fed in Demo. And I'm not cat or meow fan really.

YankeeBravo wrote...

From a shooter perspective?

If memory serves, even BF3 give us good intro. Of course it began with some running and shooting... MoH had it good, too - riding in pick-ups.

YankeeBravo wrote...

I could see it being on the longer side, sure. From an RPG or Mass Effect perspective? It's ridiculously short.

And either way, it fails to serve its purpose of establishing the scene.

Agree with that and what's Dragoonlordz said - it's not just about time spent on intro. Can't say how Remedy done their work with Alan Wake (seen some footage only), but at least their words were right "We'd much rather give the players a great single-player game, than a mediocre single and multiplayer game." -Petri Järvilehto

AxisEvolve wrote...

I'm surprised no one else from Bioware has commented in this thread...

And what they say? "We are sorry. We've been unprofessional and we weren't thinking rationally"?

Dragoonlordz wrote...

1. Yes

Teach me.

Dragoonlordz wrote...

2. Yes we are still friends don't worry or at least as far as I am aware. A lot of my friends have different views to mine, variety = spice of life and all that. Reason they are my friends is because they are very intelligent like yourself, well mannered and polite plus express themselves in a very reasonable and in depth way towards aspects/topics they are responding towards and about.

I should blush but it's cold here and there are no blushing smilie. So I put this one.

Modifié par Rudy Lis, 17 février 2012 - 09:51 .

[DaJe]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Tom Jolly wrote...

Trial or no trial, the intro IS abrupt.. Maybe 30 seconds of additional setting and dialogue shots would make us happier? Oh well. I'm optimistic that rest of the game will make me feel more at home.

You don't get much dialogue and setting in just 30 seconds. I think 10 minutes would have been better where get to see the world around you, interact with the people who will soon all be dead and debate and confront the alliance top brass admirals on your actions leading you to that point. Heaven forbid that they would ever let the player set the pace, where those who wish to get to the action as quickly as possible can head straight to the trial while those who wish to start at more relaxed pace to gain some immersion and exposition prior to the proverbial **** hitting the fan could do so and take some time to do as I just mentioned (if they so wished).

1. As it stands right now I have major concerns and disappointment over the introduction and goes beyond just the trial element explained here. Vega explaining things later does not actually resolve this at all as I explained in the linked reply as also explained in that link why reading two comics does also not resolve this for me. There is also a link in that reply I just linked which goes into even more detail about why it simply does not work for me if need further clarification.

2. Another concern is the heavy use of auto dialogue forcing a persona of their Shepard onto my own which is out of character, a feature that is shown very heavy in the demo and I expect will be same throughout the entire game where they replace my Shepard whch built over past two games into a generic canon robot responses more inline with their own canon Shepard persona.

3. Another concern but not major one right now is the mini games associated with hacking and such as talked about in Bypass thread, I liked those mini games (unlike the planet scanning mini game which I literally detest) all other mini games in ME2 I thought was very good and enjoyed. At this stage if go by demo we have none which is disappointment yet again for me personally. But we do not have an answer to such simple question is there or is there not hacking mini games in the retail version.

4. One more issue is a major one in how much effect importing really has on the game, Chris thread about try without import first brought questions and concern about how little will be effected by imports upon the major amount will merely be reliance on imagination and nostalgia to notice difference instead of seeing a clear difference. Example is no import you see Wrex and do same things with Wrex but import you see Wrex and do same things with Wrex, if lucky maybe few lines of different dialogue. Thats a concern for me.

Those are really my main concerns. The lack of trial was a big one but is an aspect that covers more than just a confrontation with admirals, wider issues with introduction plays a part too. At this stage I can only hope at some point their will be a prelude DLC for time on Earth spanning those 6 months and trial released at later date because I would buy that and would solve one of my issues. The rest mostly (probably) can't be solved by DLC though.

I completely agree, mostly with the first point. The intro is missing so much of it's potential that it doesn't even look like Bioware made it.
I usually try not to use insulting words on these boards but deciding against the trail was retarded. And I feel it was cut to get faster to the first explosion. But guess what, those explosions mean nothing when there is barely any connection build up between player and setting + characters.
We don't see people we met die, we know nothing about the city that is being destroyed, Shepards connection to Vega is not explained, Shepards situation in total is not explained and the player gets no time to get into the mood.
Such a waste and it will always stay like that.

[Pachuli714]

I don't know guys but I think I smell a future DLC regarding the trial.

[Rudy Lis]

Pachuli714 wrote...

I don't know guys but I think I smell a future DLC regarding the trial.

And how they tie it with action-oriented public? Shepard will crush chairs and benches at his opponents' heads and "go Khelgar" - "so I punch him in the face for asking"?

[Atakuma]

I'm very quickly losing my respect for bioware. It has become apparent that they are now more interested in appealing to as many people as possible than they are in actually making a good game.

[1Nosphorus1]

Rudy Lis wrote...

Pachuli714 wrote...

I don't know guys but I think I smell a future DLC regarding the trial.

And how they tie it with action-oriented public? Shepard will crush chairs and benches at his opponents' heads and "go Khelgar" - "so I punch him in the face for asking"?

All that while screaming "I AM KROGAN"

[Taleroth]

The big problem, in my mind, with the intro in the demo is that it badly tries to meld tutorial and tension. Which creates a very strange feeling instead. It's too busy trying to teach us things in heavily scripted encounters that just don't feel very good while also trying to rush us.

Like those Husks. Anderson tells us to shoot the Husks. It's just an endless stream of pointless husks. We don't need to fight them. They're not attacking us or even heading our direction. There's no sense of threat. And the urgency is gone because we're forced to stop and take potshots at them or it will last forever.

Then we run out of ammo. And the scripting begins to really show. "wait a second, I had ammo?"

Modifié par Taleroth, 17 février 2012 - 10:07 .

[YankeeBravo]

Pachuli714 wrote...

I don't know guys but I think I smell a future DLC regarding the trial.

I dunno...It's been thrown out there several times in comments, but here's the problem I see with that:

1. I don't think Bioware's ever done an entirely story/conversation driven DLC and since I can't imagine how they'd add "action" (aside from "flashbacks", but that would totally suck) I can't see it being widely profitable. 

2. If it were done and a fee attached, you'd have a PR nightmare since Bioware would become the first company to actually make you buy the actual intro to the game. Not that I think EA wouldn't love to try it, but I think Bioware has more sense than to be the first to experiment with selling it. Otherwise it opens the door for "Oh, you want alternate endings? Sure! 560 Bioware points."

[AxisEvolve]

Atakuma wrote...

AxisEvolve wrote...

I'm surprised no one else from Bioware has commented in this thread...

The ME team hardly ever comment on anything, so it's not surprising.

Yeah.. we're approaching 100 pages though. This is obviously a big issue for many people, at least those who post here.

[YankeeBravo]

Atakuma wrote...

I'm very quickly losing my respect for bioware. It has become apparent that they are now more interested in appealing to as many people as possible than they are in actually making a good game.

I don't know that I'd say that's Bioware, neccessarily.

Now, EA? Absolutely. After all, it was EA's CEO I quoted earlier. 

Bioware can be somewhat stubborn and egotistical at times (but so can a lot of their customers), but they still generally listen to what their fans want and try to accomodate desires where possible. And I think there are a lot of people at Bioware who hate the push to "rework gameplay" to appeal to a mainstream audience as much as we do. They just can't be vocal about it, though....Kinda wonder if maybe Drew  Karpyshyn's departure wasn't just to focus on his books, but because he saw where the currents were dragging Bioware too and didn't like it so much.

[Rudy Lis]

1Nosphorus1 wrote...

All that while screaming "I AM KROGAN"

I'd pay to see that.
Could be easily done by community, should they gave us proper tools.

Taleroth wrote...

The big problem, in my mind, with the intro in the demo is that it badly tries to meld tutorial and tension. Which creates a very strange feeling instead. It's too busy trying to teach us things in heavily scripted encounters that just don't feel very good while also trying to rush us.

Like those Husks. Anderson tells us to shoot the Husks. It's just an endless stream of pointless husks. We don't need to fight them. They're not attacking us or even heading our direction. There's no sense of threat. And the urgency is gone because we're forced to stop and take potshots at them or it will last forever.

Then we run out of ammo. And the scripting begins to really show. "wait a second, I had ammo?"

Second that. We have endless ammo supply and being stripped from it twice. First time - fully and second time partially. Sak Noel - Loca people?

If they want give us tutorial, give Shepard's memories about boot camp (worked in old Operation Flashpoint: Cold War Crysis or first CoD). Or his childhood memories, when his father (btw, WHO is his father?) playing with him, teaching how to shoot, etc. I hate bethesda, but their F3 beginning - one of brightest beginnings I ever seen.

Don't want that? Force us to shoot glass, instead of that "and here reaper will take a leak". Why Reaper needed to attack that particular building in that particular moment? And why rooms exploded and windows shattered - they kept fuel drums there?

[Dragoonlordz]

YankeeBravo wrote...

Pachuli714 wrote...

I don't know guys but I think I smell a future DLC regarding the trial.

I dunno...It's been thrown out there several times in comments, but here's the problem I see with that:

1. I don't think Bioware's ever done an entirely story/conversation driven DLC and since I can't imagine how they'd add "action" (aside from "flashbacks", but that would totally suck) I can't see it being widely profitable. 

2. If it were done and a fee attached, you'd have a PR nightmare since Bioware would become the first company to actually make you buy the actual intro to the game. Not that I think EA wouldn't love to try it, but I think Bioware has more sense than to be the first to experiment with selling it. Otherwise it opens the door for "Oh, you want alternate endings? Sure! 560 Bioware points."

You could include action in the 6 months exposition and immersive engagment with Earth, it's representitives and general public via quite a simple manner of Cerberus assassination attempt with adequate story background to allow it. That of being you know so much about Cerberus due to ME2 and EDI. Being back on Earth among the Alliance puts them at risk. So this DLC as it were could have action elements too.

The thing is about second of your paragraphs, all PR aside I would without doubt buy that DLC, in fact I would go as far as to say I want it to be made/released as long as it covers the 6 months and trial. Allows for control and dialogue even action which can be created via explanation given just now. So I hope they do release or create it because for me regardless of whether they cut or never made it, my desire to play it takes precidence on this. We Spent the entire last two titles never stepping foot on Earth and now with the last title we only get to see it in ruins and everyone dying. This is not adequate as far as I am concerned. The DLC itself will start on your ship and dependant on choices at start and during they arrive and either force you home or you willingly go. This then leads to what I just described.

If released as DLC it could be extended and more content added to make it even more worthwhile because of the entire 6 months present on Earth prior to ruins from the attack, interaction with the people during a peaceful time and seeing their reactions to your presence, confronting the alliance brass leading up to why Anderson made such an odd statement at start of the retail game plus you could even include from the moment you were on your ship prior to heading back where they allow a circumstance/situation that creates an atmostphere befitting of both renegade and paragon Shepards returning to Earth. The action element I covered above in the first paragraph also plays a part to allow that specific aspect of combat while on Earth.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 20 février 2012 - 09:14 .

[seirhart]

Atakuma wrote...

I'm very quickly losing my respect for bioware. It has become apparent that they are now more interested in appealing to as many people as possible than they are in actually making a good game.

this is the way I feel, Bioware use to be one of my favorite gaming companies, but after TOR and after reading what the EA person said, I think that I'm close to just canceling my preorder that I have already paid off and use the credits for something else.

[Rudy Lis]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

You could include action in the 6 months exposition and immersive engagment with Earth, it's representitives and general public via quite a simple manner of Cerberus assassination attempt with adequate story background to allow it. That of being you know so much about Cerberus due to ME2 and EDI. Being back on Earth among the Alliance puts them at risk. So this DLC as it were could have action elements too.

Especially, if we will play for that assassin. Just remember Medal of Honor, when you constantly being "swapped" into different characters. Or Fallout: New Vegas, president Kimball assassination attempt, when you can see situation from several points of view.
We played for Joker once, why not play for killer from Cerberus?
Agreed on rest of your post, thus delete it.

P.S. Just remembered one of Elvis' songs, one that practically fit current situation perfectly:
"It hurts me to see they treat us the way that they does"
Third verse of that song is very interesting too.

Modifié par Rudy Lis, 17 février 2012 - 10:41 .

[AlanC9]

Pachuli714 wrote...

I don't know guys but I think I smell a future DLC regarding the trial.

500 Bioware points says they won't.

[Rudy Lis]

AlanC9 wrote...

500 Bioware points says they won't.

I missed something?

[Thefireandthepassion]

txgoldrush wrote...

tez19 wrote...

Thefireandthepassion wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Gemini1179 wrote...

Then you're the kind of customer EA wants. No sense bogging players down with plot and character development when there are things to kill!

(Sorry I couldn't help it, I'm disappoineted at the opening- it's another bit of railroading and cut corners)

Ok, I know I'm a tool of the Man and all, but how so?

If you are a new player (haven't played ME1 or ME2) you learn who Shepard is, why he's on earth, what the Reaper threat is, and then the story begins.

If you are a continuing player (have played either or both of the previous games) you already know the plot and character development because you helped form it with your previous play throughs and the story picks up after ME2.

I'm sorry you're disappointed, but I'm not completely sure why?

Consider the start of the demo was incredibly vague. Even as a repeat ME player I looked at the start scratched my head going why is he here? It was only briefly hinted at and vaguely mentioned what happened to Shep. How Shep meets/knows Vega isn't even in the game. It's like oh here's this new character we developed to replace Jacob. It's poorly done, and I think Bioware knows it is poorly done. Fix the issue because it's incredibly vague because why would the greatest hero to mankind be stripped of his rank and forced to live on Earth?

The events leading up to the Reaper invasion would help lay groundwork as to why Shep is on Earth if you didn't play Arrival.

Yup. I never played arrival and i had no effing clue what was going on. Who the hell was that james guy etc.. Very, very, very poorly done Bioware, another DA2 for sure.

does everything have to be spoon fed to you right away....lol

Why don't you play te game and BE PATIENT. Storytellers like to...umm...delay character development and not force character establishment when its not appropriate.

Establishing why Shep is on Earth and why he's where he is would seem to help open the story better than rushing right into it. Rushing a story usually leads to a bad plot. 

[Dragoonlordz]

Thefireandthepassion wrote...

-snip-

Please don't reply to that person or drag up what she/he said because we are thankful we finally are back on reasonable, polite debate and discussion with him or her gone. If drag their comments back your just going to bring them back along with it.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 17 février 2012 - 10:57 .

[LordJeyl]

I remember reading in this forum where someone had the good idea of giving the player a "Tali's Trial" like approach. Once Ashley/Kaiden come into the scene, the player would than be in control of Shepard. Anderson will be talking to someone, most likely a news update, while Shepard can talk to Ashley/Kaiden, Vega, or anyone else who might have comments regarding Shepard's ventures. Like Tali's trial, all of the conversations would be completely optional and the player can just have Shepard walk to the meeting with barely 10-15 seconds lost.

You can learn a lot about what has happened to both Shepard, the crew, the Normandy, Anderson, the Council, and more importantly.... EARTH!!! You know, the planet that's the focus of this game? It's pretty odd that Shepard, a character who may or may have anything to do with Earth puts in such high regard that she's willing to forget everything she's done in the past to fight a battle that she should know is futile. Shepard is the same character who will later say "I know a thing or two about killing Reapers", yet she needs Anderson to remind her that fighting them on Earth with the fleet in shambles isn't going to work. SHE SHOULD KNOW THIS.

Modifié par LordJeyl, 17 février 2012 - 11:07 .

[Thefireandthepassion]

JakeMacDon wrote...

Thefireandthepassion wrote...

Because if he's being held in detention Vega wouldn't be armed and in street clothes right? If he were in detention he'd have a room over-looking a park right? Clearly, he isn't really in detention because if you looked closer you'd see he was just relieved of his duties. Fantastic comprehension skills there, buddy.

What part of the sign that clearly says "DETENTION CENTRE" on the wall outside his door in big blue letters did you miss, "pal"??

I saw it that doesn't mean it's the Detention Center because nothing about that building remotely looked like a Detention Center. Just because there's a sign saying Detention Center does not make it a Detention Center. It could have been a sign saying Detention Center this way (indicated with an arrow) like there were signs leading you to the night club in ME1. Or signs that pointed you to other places on Citadel.

Great job reading what I posted because if you had read you'd realize that more than likely Shep wasn't being detained. So again great reading comprehension there, buddy.

[ZombifiedJake]

Atakuma wrote...

I'm very quickly losing my respect for bioware. It has become apparent that they are now more interested in appealing to as many people as possible than they are in actually making a good game.

Pretty sure this will be my last Bioware game. Hope it goes out with a bang.

[Thefireandthepassion]

LordJeyl wrote...

I remember reading in this forum where someone had the good idea of giving the player a "Tali's Trial" like approach. Once Ashley/Kaiden come into the scene, the player would than be in control of Shepard. Anderson will be talking to someone, most likely a news update, while Shepard can talk to Ashley/Kaiden, Vega, or anyone else who might have comments regarding Shepard's ventures. Like Tali's trial, all of the conversations would be completely optional and the player can just have Shepard walk to the meeting with barely 10-15 seconds lost.

You can learn a lot about what has happened to both Shepard, the crew, the Normandy, Anderson, the Council, and more importantly.... EARTH!!! You know, the planet that's the focus of this game? It's pretty odd that Shepard, a character who may or may have anything to do with Earth puts in such high regard that she's willing to forget everything she's done in the past to fight a battle that she should know is futile. Shepard is the same character who will later say "I know a thing or two about killing Reapers", yet she needs Anderson to remind her that fighting them on Earth with the fleet in shambles isn't going to work. SHE SHOULD KNOW THIS.

If this were Reddit I would be giving you my upvote right now.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Did they say why they removed the trial?

Modifié par EpicBoot2daFace, 17 février 2012 - 11:16 .

[izmirtheastarach]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Did they say why they removed the trial?

They have even admitted that they did.

[DJBare]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Did they say why they removed the trial?

Well, they say they removed holstering to save 2-4MB of runtime memory, they must have saved 100s of MB by removing the trial, the good news is, we can now roll from cover to cover, a cause for celebration?