2915 réponses à ce sujet

[YankeeBravo]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Did they say why they removed the trial?

Nope.

All Chris said is that what you see in the demo is what you get in the game.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

YankeeBravo wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Did they say why they removed the trial?

Nope.

All Chris said is that what you see in the demo is what you get in the game.

That's terrible.

[bluewolv1970]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

YankeeBravo wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Did they say why they removed the trial?

Nope.

All Chris said is that what you see in the demo is what you get in the game.

That's terrible.

yes

[Rudy Lis]

[quote]DJBare wrote...

Did they say why they removed the trial?[/quote]Well, they say they removed holstering to save 2-4MB of runtime memory, they must have saved 100s of MB by removing the trial, the good news is, we can now roll from cover to cover, a cause for celebration?
[/quote]

No. No-no-no. It cannot be. They removed 100 mb of trial to create some space for high-res textures of LI and fan-service lingerie and skin?

[Dragoonlordz]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

YankeeBravo wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Did they say why they removed the trial?

Nope.

All Chris said is that what you see in the demo is what you get in the game.

That's terrible.

Unfortuantly now that the game has gone gold and will soon be shipped to retail stores all we can do is voice disappointment and provide possible solutions. If we are lucky they may take us up on one of our solutions but realistically I can't see any other way except DLC at this stage. So ideas for DLC is what I have been concentrating on and reasons for it ,I hope at some point later they provide such for those of us (quite a large amount given poll did on this subject) feel about the topic. If we can provide reasonable debate and good ideas we may get lucky.

As for expecting an explanation on why they removed or left out what it is we were looking forward to and not unreasonably would just not be likely to hear from them any admission of any kind. No explanation of why cut or removed would make the situation better because we would still lack the one thing we hoped to have. So solutions are the only thing I can suggest to them at this stage and this was mine.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 18 février 2012 - 12:28 .

[LordJeyl]

I'm going to bring up a perfect example regarding an action title that was not rushed.

ALIENS

A lot of fans label this film as the action/roller coaster ride when compared to the first movie, and while I certainly agree there is a lot more action to be had in ALIENS, I do feel that labeling it as such is kind of disingenuous. If you watch that film, especially the Special Edition (Cameron's preferred cut), NOTHING happens in the first 45-60 minutes of the film. We open with...

- Ripley's shuttle being retrieved by a salvage ship.
- Ripley learning how long she's been gone and having a nightmare involving the first film's signature scene.
- Ripley learning about her daughter*
- RIPLEY'S TRAIL!!!**
- LV-426 encountering the derelict ship.*
- Burke offering Ripley a job as an advisor to the marines going to LV-426 to save the colonists.
- Introduction to the marines
- Landing on LV-426 and investigating the living complex.**
- Encountering Newt
- Locating the missing colonists
- Investigating the processing station where the dead colonists were taken.
- BOOM! ALIENS!

* New Scene
** Extended Scene

See how much material the movie went through before we have our first action scene with the Aliens? A lot of detail is covered yet none of it comes off as boring or unnecessary. I bring up ALIENS because like ME3, the main character has fought an alien menace that others just don't understand, and the characters must face the consequences of what everyone else interpreted her actions to be. Ripley (and the audience) was given several "bring me up to speed" moments about what happened after she was rescued, what the exact consequences were and how they affect her, and her motivation to want to face the aliens again. That's not what we get in ME3's opening which is just "I told you so" lines and speeches that are more or less pointless (Survival can mean slavery to the Reapers, just so you know). If ALIENS was given the ME3 opening treatment, it would have opened with the marines just entering the processing station. Who are these characters? What are they doing here? Why is Ripley here and not on trial for what she did?

And the funny thing is, ALIENS can be looked at as it's own stand alone film where you don't really need ALIEN to fully understand what's going on. But even with that, it still acknowledges the first movie with great detail. What Bioware/EA have done in their approach on ME3's story is an absolute focus on the casual gamer who has never played any mass effect game. They've literally stated that ME3 is the PERFECT starting point for players who have never played the series. Yes, the supposedly final game of the series is the perfect place to jump in "franchise" wise. These guys have less respect towards their previous games than James Cameron did with the original ALIEN, a movie he had nothing to do with. Can you imagine if Peter Jackson told the press that you can see Return of the King without having seen or read the first or second book or movie? Stories shouldn't work like that.

[LordJeyl]

Turryn wrote...

This may be the first game ever to include DLC *prequel* content. I.e, an expansion you play at the very start of the game.

I believe "Leliana's Song" holds the honor of being the first DLC game to take place before the main story line.

[Rudy Lis]

LordJeyl wrote...

I believe "Leliana's Song" holds the honor of being the first DLC game to take place before the main story line.

I haven't played it, just watched a little, but IMHO main difference here, that LS is sort of "expansion - DAO told you everything more or less fully. In DAO universe "origin" quests should take place of ME3 trial. Maybe even up to Ostagar and "grey wardering".

[Ultai]

One of my issues is that I believe for ME1 and ME2, we as the player and Shep himself/herself both meet and get to know the squadmates at the same time (Shep was recently ordered onto the Normandy with the VS.) This doesn't seem to be the case with James Vegas, I get the slight inclination that they've been talking it up for a bit now, I suppose Shep referring to him by his first name tipped me off. It's rather irritating.

The whole defense committee thing, why the hell do they all come off as helpless or scared and begging their Space Jesus to give them answers? I would think that they'd have a bit more stern tone to their voices, given that they're high ranking members of the Alliance. Surely they would have some form of leadership skills.

"God help us all"  I'm not one to complain too much about cliches, but arrrrrgh this line is so damn cringe worthy.

I was thinking we'd get a whole scene where we'd get questions handed to us by the judges on the panel about our past decisions, and we'd be able to choose them there if we didn't import (which is what the demo is, a non-import,) similar to how the ps3 comic was, but not being bad like the ps3 comic. Compared to that this whole intro feels meh the whole way through.

Modifié par Ultai, 18 février 2012 - 12:19 .

[adawg828]

Maybe Bioware put that in there so they don't reveal the true trial... either way I'm not disappointed

[CenturyCrow]

Turryn wrote...
This may be the first game ever to include DLC *prequel* content. I.e, an expansion you play at the very start of the game.

Ah. BioWare is trying to pull off a new trick–the reverse cliff-hanger. So this déjà vu cliff-hanger actually occurs BEFORE, but you don't realize it until you get the prequel. Very clever but too complicated for me... Has to be a new marketing concept.<_<

[DPSSOC]

Rudy Lis wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Did they say why they removed the trial?

Well, they say they removed holstering to save 2-4MB of runtime memory, they must have saved 100s of MB by removing the trial, the good news is, we can now roll from cover to cover, a cause for celebration?

No. No-no-no. It cannot be. They removed 100 mb of trial to create some space for high-res textures of LI and fan-service lingerie and skin?

No they cut it so they can have Shepard jump over small gaps.  Memory well spent.

Modifié par DPSSOC, 18 février 2012 - 01:14 .

[DTKT]

DPSSOC wrote...

Rudy Lis wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Did they say why they removed the trial?

Well, they say they removed holstering to save 2-4MB of runtime memory, they must have saved 100s of MB by removing the trial, the good news is, we can now roll from cover to cover, a cause for celebration?

No. No-no-no. It cannot be. They removed 100 mb of trial to create some space for high-res textures of LI and fan-service lingerie and skin?

No they cut it so they can have Shepard jump over small gaps.  Memory well spent.

What.

From what we know, there never was a trial segment. This is how they planned to start ME3.

[rastakore]

DTKT wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

Rudy Lis wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Did they say why they removed the trial?

Well, they say they removed holstering to save 2-4MB of runtime memory, they must have saved 100s of MB by removing the trial, the good news is, we can now roll from cover to cover, a cause for celebration?

No. No-no-no. It cannot be. They removed 100 mb of trial to create some space for high-res textures of LI and fan-service lingerie and skin?

No they cut it so they can have Shepard jump over small gaps.  Memory well spent.

What.

From what we know, there never was a trial segment. This is how they planned to start ME3.

Explain then why is Sheppard being held in a detention center and the hearing is in the courtroom.

[DTKT]

rastakore wrote...

DTKT wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

Rudy Lis wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Did they say why they removed the trial?

Well, they say they removed holstering to save 2-4MB of runtime memory, they must have saved 100s of MB by removing the trial, the good news is, we can now roll from cover to cover, a cause for celebration?

No. No-no-no. It cannot be. They removed 100 mb of trial to create some space for high-res textures of LI and fan-service lingerie and skin?

No they cut it so they can have Shepard jump over small gaps.  Memory well spent.

What.

From what we know, there never was a trial segment. This is how they planned to start ME3.

Explain then why is Sheppard being held in a detention center and the hearing is in the courtroom.

I'm not exactly sure about your point.

Yes, there is a set-up for a trial. Yes, it would have made sense to include it in the game. Yet, they didn't. I'm not saying it was the right decision or that it even makes sense. I personally believe that it was a missed opportunity to create an amazing beginning. Instead, they picked the "Micheal Bay" technique and just made everything explode. It's weak, kind of boring and incredibly unfun to play.

The only thing I am saying is that nothing was removed. This is how they planned it.

[Chromie]

DTKT wrote...


The only thing I am saying is that nothing was removed. This is how they planned it.

From the demo we are already on Earth or in a detention cell. We are grounded and Shepard already knows Vega. I don't know him why is there no dialogue between the two explaining how they met? Instead we are just forced to accept Vega. I hope it's just the demo and not the final product.


"Mass Effect 3 starts with Shepard returning to Earth to be put on trial for the killing of 300,000 Batarians."

http://www.pcgamer.c...ffect-3-starts/

Modifié par Ringo12, 18 février 2012 - 01:37 .

[rastakore]

DTKT wrote...

rastakore wrote...

Explain then why is Sheppard being held in a detention center and the hearing is in the courtroom.

I'm not exactly sure about your point.

Yes, there is a set-up for a trial. Yes, it would have made sense to include it in the game. Yet, they didn't. I'm not saying it was the right decision or that it even makes sense. I personally believe that it was a missed opportunity to create an amazing beginning. Instead, they picked the "Micheal Bay" technique and just made everything explode. It's weak, kind of boring and incredibly unfun to play.

The only thing I am saying is that nothing was removed. This is how they planned it.

My point is, it all seems very rushed. Even if the trial scene was never there to begin with, they should at least removed the text on the wall that says "dettention center" and "courtroom access", and prepared a better setup for the reaper invasion. As it stands, it doesn't make any sense for a person who played ME2 and the Arrival DLC.

Modifié par rastakore, 18 février 2012 - 01:42 .

[DPSSOC]

DTKT wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

Rudy Lis wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Did they say why they removed the trial?

Well, they say they removed holstering to save 2-4MB of runtime memory, they must have saved 100s of MB by removing the trial, the good news is, we can now roll from cover to cover, a cause for celebration?

No. No-no-no. It cannot be. They removed 100 mb of trial to create some space for high-res textures of LI and fan-service lingerie and skin?

No they cut it so they can have Shepard jump over small gaps.  Memory well spent.

What.

From what we know, there never was a trial segment. This is how they planned to start ME3.

First off I was joking I assume the two users before me were as well.  Second I recall hearing they had a trial segment in a press demo so yes there was and it was cut, we just don't know why

[TMA LIVE]

rastakore wrote...

DTKT wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

Rudy Lis wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Did they say why they removed the trial?

Well, they say they removed holstering to save 2-4MB of runtime memory, they must have saved 100s of MB by removing the trial, the good news is, we can now roll from cover to cover, a cause for celebration?

No. No-no-no. It cannot be. They removed 100 mb of trial to create some space for high-res textures of LI and fan-service lingerie and skin?

No they cut it so they can have Shepard jump over small gaps.  Memory well spent.

What.

From what we know, there never was a trial segment. This is how they planned to start ME3.

Explain then why is Sheppard being held in a detention center and the hearing is in the courtroom.

That's just writing on the wall.

The average person doesn't even notice. Neither Shepard, nor Anderson, nor the Comity reference that Shepard is, was, or is going to be put on trial. As a matter of fact, Anderson says Shepard wasn't. "The **** you've done... any other soldier would've been tried, court-martialed, and discharged. It's your knowledge of the Reapers that kept that from happening".

[YankeeBravo]

DTKT wrote...

rastakore wrote...

DTKT wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

Rudy Lis wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Did they say why they removed the trial?

Well, they say they removed holstering to save 2-4MB of runtime memory, they must have saved 100s of MB by removing the trial, the good news is, we can now roll from cover to cover, a cause for celebration?

No. No-no-no. It cannot be. They removed 100 mb of trial to create some space for high-res textures of LI and fan-service lingerie and skin?

No they cut it so they can have Shepard jump over small gaps.  Memory well spent.

What.

From what we know, there never was a trial segment. This is how they planned to start ME3.

Explain then why is Sheppard being held in a detention center and the hearing is in the courtroom.

I'm not exactly sure about your point.

Yes, there is a set-up for a trial. Yes, it would have made sense to include it in the game. Yet, they didn't. I'm not saying it was the right decision or that it even makes sense. I personally believe that it was a missed opportunity to create an amazing beginning. Instead, they picked the "Micheal Bay" technique and just made everything explode. It's weak, kind of boring and incredibly unfun to play.

The only thing I am saying is that nothing was removed. This is how they planned it.

Actually, they did include it.

They just cut it at some point between the build that was shown to the media and the demo that was released this week.

Some of the assets are still there as you can see by the initial scenes up to the point he's led into the meeting with the defense committee, it was present in the script and Bioware played it up extensively last year as being the culmination of events from ME 1 and 2.

So, there you have it.

Not a case of 'they always planned to start the game like this', unless you think Bioware's gotten so weak storywise they'd intentionally write a scene that directly contradicts itself as to what the situation is.

[Rudy Lis]

DPSSOC wrote...

No they cut it so they can have Shepard jump over small gaps.  Memory well spent.

Don't forget - now we can run like we spilled mace (or turpentine) onto our groin area, plus FALCON PUNCH! And sprite hu... Who the hell are those sprites anyway?

DPSSOC wrote...

First off I was joking I assume the two users before me were as well.

Well, I was joking, that's correct.

DPSSOC wrote...

Second I recall hearing they had a trial segment in a press demo so yes there was and it was cut, we just don't know why

Aha.

Modifié par Rudy Lis, 18 février 2012 - 01:51 .

[DTKT]

YankeeBravo wrote...

DTKT wrote...

rastakore wrote...

DTKT wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

Rudy Lis wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Did they say why they removed the trial?

Well, they say they removed holstering to save 2-4MB of runtime memory, they must have saved 100s of MB by removing the trial, the good news is, we can now roll from cover to cover, a cause for celebration?

No. No-no-no. It cannot be. They removed 100 mb of trial to create some space for high-res textures of LI and fan-service lingerie and skin?

No they cut it so they can have Shepard jump over small gaps.  Memory well spent.

What.

From what we know, there never was a trial segment. This is how they planned to start ME3.

Explain then why is Sheppard being held in a detention center and the hearing is in the courtroom.

I'm not exactly sure about your point.

Yes, there is a set-up for a trial. Yes, it would have made sense to include it in the game. Yet, they didn't. I'm not saying it was the right decision or that it even makes sense. I personally believe that it was a missed opportunity to create an amazing beginning. Instead, they picked the "Micheal Bay" technique and just made everything explode. It's weak, kind of boring and incredibly unfun to play.

The only thing I am saying is that nothing was removed. This is how they planned it.

Actually, they did include it.

They just cut it at some point between the build that was shown to the media and the demo that was released this week.

Some of the assets are still there as you can see by the initial scenes up to the point he's led into the meeting with the defense committee, it was present in the script and Bioware played it up extensively last year as being the culmination of events from ME 1 and 2.

So, there you have it.

Not a case of 'they always planned to start the game like this', unless you think Bioware's gotten so weak storywise they'd intentionally write a scene that directly contradicts itself as to what the situation is.

I haven't read the leaked script so I can't comment on that. I guess that when ME3 is released, I'll see if that still holds up.

[Nauks]

I could feel a collective resounding "surely this can't be all there is" moan from the demo players when playing the intro, and until I came on here after playing, I'd figure that "surely they must have the trial in the damn game, that was a major selling point for the whole start of ME3 after all etc"

Just after finding out there is no more holstering of weapons (in other words no real exploration during missions) what great hype for for ME3!

[AxisEvolve]

Rudy Lis wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Did they say why they removed the trial?

Well, they say they removed holstering to save 2-4MB of runtime memory, they must have saved 100s of MB by removing the trial, the good news is, we can now roll from cover to cover, a cause for celebration?

I don't think a cutscene + dialog would be a memory issue. It's not adding any new mechanics to the game. If anything it would be a disc space issue and that's it.

[YankeeBravo]

Turryn wrote...

Honestly I don't care what particular plot device they were going to use.

Most people, it is fairly safe to say, did not play Arrival. Even if that's not true, there hasn't been some sudden industry wide shift wherein people are expected to have completed DLC before buying the new game.

Clearly, from DA2 on, there is someone at Bioware who thinks it is somehow interesting to just drop players into a new situation with no explanation and rush forward with the story. It is not. It's jarring and awkward, it feels lazy and it's just incredibly bad writing.

As we've discussed somewhat earlier, it's not just a matter of dropping players in with no explanation.

If that were the case, those that say 'just wait. it'll be explained on the Normandy' might have a point.

However, if the actual intro turns out to be identical to the demo intro, Bioware have managed to create a scenario that can't be explained because the two main characters involved in it have a diametrically opposed viewpoint of what happened.

Anderson thinks Shepard's damn lucky to have avoided court-martial and punishment, whereas Shepard is utterly convinced he not only was placed on a show trial, but that he WAS convicted and dismissed from the Alliance military.

That kind of disparity can't be reconciled or exposited away by conversations later in the game.

That kind of problem is the end result of a late major edit/rework of the scripted intro and writers either not bothering to go back or being to busy to go back and make sure the edit didn't create major problems.