2915 réponses à ce sujet

[Daidarus]

IMHO, it was rewritten so the "Start the series in #3" crowd could jump in easier, and that is very dissapointing. You start a triology at #1, not #3.

[YankeeBravo]

Daidarus wrote...

IMHO, it was rewritten so the "Start the series in #3" crowd could jump in easier, and that is very dissapointing. You start a triology at #1, not #3.

It's a good bet.

What's more worriesome about it is it means any meaningful repurcussions from the first two games are in jeopardy, too.

Chris's "crazy idea" to try the game the first time through without importing a save is basically saying to me "Hey guys, we totally tracked your choices, but the thing is, the impact's going to be so minimal that maybe you should play it as a new character first so you can recognize what changed."

Which would be heartbreaking given that they'd been talking about consequences on the scale of 'if the Rachni aren't around anymore, well...you have a problem to work around."

[realguile]

YankeeBravo wrote...

Daidarus wrote...

IMHO, it was rewritten so the "Start the series in #3" crowd could jump in easier, and that is very dissapointing. You start a triology at #1, not #3.

It's a good bet.

What's more worriesome about it is it means any meaningful repurcussions from the first two games are in jeopardy, too.

Chris's "crazy idea" to try the game the first time through without importing a save is basically saying to me "Hey guys, we totally tracked your choices, but the thing is, the impact's going to be so minimal that maybe you should play it as a new character first so you can recognize what changed."

Which would be heartbreaking given that they'd been talking about consequences on the scale of 'if the Rachni aren't around anymore, well...you have a problem to work around."

Damn shame about that. 

[Adrenaline Junkie]

YankeeBravo wrote...

Chris's "crazy idea" to try the game the first time through without importing a save is basically saying to me "Hey guys, we totally tracked your choices, but the thing is, the impact's going to be so minimal that maybe you should play it as a new character first so you can recognize what changed."

That's the impression I got too.

[Rudy Lis]

AxisEvolve wrote...

I don't think a cutscene + dialog would be a memory issue. It's not adding any new mechanics to the game. If anything it would be a disc space issue and that's it.

1. You edited quotes in very interesting way.
2. I assume we were joking. Or it was sarcasm, not sure.

YankeeBravo wrote...

As we've discussed somewhat earlier, it's not just a matter of dropping players in with no explanation.

Yep.

If they really wanted to start game from "action", they should start it without exsiting "blah-blah", because it doesn't explain any darn thing and waste a lot of time. Then they could use Witcher-alike retrospective, AFTER escape from Earth, and not via some dialogue with Vega telling you about "previously in Mass Effect", but that playable restrospective with trial and all that. This, however, still could (and, probably, will) be hard on new players, since they don't know a thing (supposedly).
My "propheteering" - chain is strong as strong weakest link and caravan moves as fast as slowest vehicle in it. Game will be rounded down to common lowest denomination, a.k.a. "new player". All differences between imported and non-imported game - either some "random krogan" or Grunt. No-name asari (heh) or Samara. Scientist salarian or Mordin. Labels, badges, nametags. "Catch me later, I'll buy you beer". Nothing else.
P.S. I follow Garrus' advice.

[DPSSOC]

TMA LIVE wrote...

rastakore wrote...
Explain then why is Sheppard being held in a detention center and the hearing is in the courtroom.

That's just writing on the wall.

The average person doesn't even notice. Neither Shepard, nor Anderson, nor the Comity reference that Shepard is, was, or is going to be put on trial. As a matter of fact, Anderson says Shepard wasn't. "The **** you've done... any other soldier would've been tried, court-martialed, and discharged. It's your knowledge of the Reapers that kept that from happening".

Not to mention despite being held in a detention center nothing anyone does gels with the idea of Shepard being a prisoner.  The soldier presumably charged with keeping him/her under guard is shaking his/her hand, s/he's got a massive window opening to a park/garden area with no bars, s/he is then lead through a military facility surrounded by armed individuals without restraints, and Shepard complains to Anderson about hot meals and soft beds.  Given the charges that should be put against Shepard (treason and genocide) this kind of treatment doesn't fit.

YankeeBravo wrote...
However, if the actual intro turns out to be identical to the demo intro, Bioware have managed to create a scenario that can't be explained because the two main characters involved in it have a diametrically opposed viewpoint of what happened.

Anderson thinks Shepard's damn lucky to have avoided court-martial and punishment, whereas Shepard is utterly convinced he not only was placed on a show trial, but that he WAS convicted and dismissed from the Alliance military.

It's even worse than that since Anderson contradicts himself. Just before saying Shepard's lucky not to have been court martialed and discharged he asks how Shepard's been doing after being relieved of duty.  Then later Shepard explicitly states that he's not Alliance anymore until Anderson gives him his dog tags back.  I am hoping beyond hope that this is an unaltered version of an earlier demo, Bioware is better than this.

[Almostfaceman]

YankeeBravo wrote...

Anderson thinks Shepard's damn lucky to have avoided court-martial and punishment, whereas Shepard is utterly convinced he not only was placed on a show trial, but that he WAS convicted and dismissed from the Alliance military.

That kind of disparity can't be reconciled or exposited away by conversations later in the game.

It's obvious Shepard was handed an administrative separation rather than face criminal proceedings - a court martial - that's what he's mad about. He doesn't once say he was "put on trial".  Easily explained - at any time - for anyone not familiar with the military and instantly recognizable for people who are from the military.

Modifié par Almostfaceman, 18 février 2012 - 02:45 .

[Xarathox]

Jesus, this thread's still going?

Dead horse and all that.

[Anthadlas]

YankeeBravo wrote...

Which would be heartbreaking given that they'd been talking about consequences on the scale of 'if the Rachni aren't around anymore, well...you have a problem to work around."

Yeah now i'll have to find something else to do it that 3 seconds it took me to delete an email informing me about it

[Dragoonlordz]

Xarathox wrote...

Jesus, this thread's still going?

Dead horse and all that.

Thanks for your invaluable input. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. 

If don't wish to be part of the discussion then don't come into this thread maybe?

Also begs the question if realise the irony in leaving that reply in here, you provided continuation of the thread.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 18 février 2012 - 02:53 .

[Xarathox]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Xarathox wrote...

Jesus, this thread's still going?

Dead horse and all that.

Thanks for your invaluable input. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. 

If don't wish to be part of the discussion then don't come into this thread maybe?

What's left to discuss?

There are 2 sides to the argument, both think the other are walking wastes of oxygen and no one is going to magically come up with a post that's going to convert everyone into an agreement.

[Adrenaline Junkie]

Xarathox wrote...

What's left to discuss?

If that's how you feel, then don't open this thread anymore.

[Xarathox]

Adrenaline Junkie wrote...

Xarathox wrote...

What's left to discuss?

If that's how you feel, then don't open this thread anymore.

No, think I'll keep trolling you guys instead.

[Rudy Lis]

Xarathox wrote...

There are 2 sides to the argument

There is no argument, there is only one side left. And those indifferent.

Xarathox wrote...

both think the other are walking wastes of oxygen

Nope, I don't think so.

Xarathox wrote...

and no one is going to magically come up with a post that's going to convert everyone into an agreement.

Hmm.. How bout "we all going to play ME3 regardless"?

[Dragoonlordz]

Xarathox wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Xarathox wrote...

Jesus, this thread's still going?

Dead horse and all that.

Thanks for your invaluable input. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. 

If don't wish to be part of the discussion then don't come into this thread maybe?

What's left to discuss?

There are 2 sides to the argument, both think the other are walking wastes of oxygen and no one is going to magically come up with a post that's going to convert everyone into an agreement.

We are not trying to convert anyone, it is the one's from the otherside of the coin who are trying to convince us we are wrong. This thread and it's shared purpose is a sign of disappointment from our side, and discussion about what we would of liked or would like to do about it. However we are not going out of our way to convince anyone from the other side they are wrong because this is our personal preferences. But the other side are coming in and trying to tell us we are wrong to feel this way or express our disappointment, ridicule our desire for a solution and bicker with anyone they can.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 18 février 2012 - 06:25 .

[YankeeBravo]

Almostfaceman wrote...

YankeeBravo wrote...

Anderson thinks Shepard's damn lucky to have avoided court-martial and punishment, whereas Shepard is utterly convinced he not only was placed on a show trial, but that he WAS convicted and dismissed from the Alliance military.

That kind of disparity can't be reconciled or exposited away by conversations later in the game.

It's obvious Shepard was handed an administrative separation rather than face criminal proceedings - a court martial - that's what he's mad about. He doesn't once say he was "put on trial".  Easily explained - at any time - for anyone not familiar with the military and instantly recognizable for people who are from the military.

I don't think so.

Commissioned officer. Not like they can just chapter him out just like that. You'd be talking convening a board of inquiry/ board of review. And given Shepard's service record, that'd be like trying to dismiss Chesty Puller.

And given Bioware's loose and fast playing with military life, I highly doubt they'd use something as obscure to the general public as an administrative separation.

[Anthadlas]

Xarathox wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Xarathox wrote...

Jesus, this thread's still going?

Dead horse and all that.

Thanks for your invaluable input. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. 

If don't wish to be part of the discussion then don't come into this thread maybe?

What's left to discuss?

There are 2 sides to the argument, both think the other are walking wastes of oxygen and no one is going to magically come up with a post that's going to convert everyone into an agreement.

Welcome to the Internet

[DPSSOC]

Almostfaceman wrote...

YankeeBravo wrote...

Anderson thinks Shepard's damn lucky to have avoided court-martial and punishment, whereas Shepard is utterly convinced he not only was placed on a show trial, but that he WAS convicted and dismissed from the Alliance military.

That kind of disparity can't be reconciled or exposited away by conversations later in the game.

It's obvious Shepard was handed an administrative separation rather than face criminal proceedings - a court martial - that's what he's mad about.

 
Ok so for the layman the difference is...what exactly?  Shepard has been relieved of duty, stripped of his rank, and confined to a cell.  If this is the result of an administrative separation how would criminal proceedings be any different?

[YankeeBravo]

DPSSOC wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

YankeeBravo wrote...

Anderson thinks Shepard's damn lucky to have avoided court-martial and punishment, whereas Shepard is utterly convinced he not only was placed on a show trial, but that he WAS convicted and dismissed from the Alliance military.

That kind of disparity can't be reconciled or exposited away by conversations later in the game.

It's obvious Shepard was handed an administrative separation rather than face criminal proceedings - a court martial - that's what he's mad about.

 
Ok so for the layman the difference is...what exactly?  Shepard has been relieved of duty, stripped of his rank, and confined to a cell.  If this is the result of an administrative separation how would criminal proceedings be any different?

Basically the difference is that with an administrative separation, it's more or less a parting of ways with no criminal penalties such as confinement, loss of pay (in most cases) or criminal conviction.

[Rudy Lis]

YankeeBravo wrote...

And given Bioware's loose and fast playing with military life, I highly doubt they'd use something as obscure to the general public as an administrative separation.

It's PLOT TWIST! They just put up those "trial", "heardings" or "administrative separation" just to curtain Shepard from public! Officially he is in "detention centre", unoficially it's just resort, of a sort - man need some R&R before Reapers arrive. Thus no bars, no handcuffs, friendly Vega and all those signs on walls - decoys. Hackett told Shepard about "slapping medal", but it could be considered as politically incorrect...

[Anthadlas]

DPSSOC wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

YankeeBravo wrote...

Anderson thinks Shepard's damn lucky to have avoided court-martial and punishment, whereas Shepard is utterly convinced he not only was placed on a show trial, but that he WAS convicted and dismissed from the Alliance military.

That kind of disparity can't be reconciled or exposited away by conversations later in the game.

It's obvious Shepard was handed an administrative separation rather than face criminal proceedings - a court martial - that's what he's mad about.

 
Ok so for the layman the difference is...what exactly?  Shepard has been relieved of duty, stripped of his rank, and confined to a cell.  If this is the result of an administrative separation how would criminal proceedings be any different?

Sorry but you guys are talking about court martials and administrative seperations trying to justify this whilst it all makes no sense to people without any military court knowledge and Bioware did this to try to prevent new players getting confused? I played ME1 and 2 and i have no ****ing idea what is going on xD

[DPSSOC]

YankeeBravo wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

YankeeBravo wrote...

Anderson thinks Shepard's damn lucky to have avoided court-martial and punishment, whereas Shepard is utterly convinced he not only was placed on a show trial, but that he WAS convicted and dismissed from the Alliance military.

That kind of disparity can't be reconciled or exposited away by conversations later in the game.

It's obvious Shepard was handed an administrative separation rather than face criminal proceedings - a court martial - that's what he's mad about.

 
Ok so for the layman the difference is...what exactly?  Shepard has been relieved of duty, stripped of his rank, and confined to a cell.  If this is the result of an administrative separation how would criminal proceedings be any different?

Basically the difference is that with an administrative separation, it's more or less a parting of ways with no criminal penalties such as confinement, loss of pay (in most cases) or criminal conviction.

Ok that would seem to fit better with what we're shown, but Shepard is confined, s/he's retrieved from a detention center.  Why else would s/he be there?  Did the Alliance not want to spring for a hotel?  Is Shepard's apartment being renovated?  Does Shepard just have some weird prison fetish?

[Rudy Lis]

Wraith 02 wrote...

I played ME1 and 2 and i have no ****ing idea what is going on xD

You and me both, pal!

Would you mind if I slap this on my t-shirt and safety west, by the way? I really love that phrase, surely it's my BSN favorite. <here be thumbs up smilie>

[2484Stryker]

You know, all we really need at this point is a short cutscene showing the Normandy (in Cerberus colors) flying towards Earth with some background chatter indicating that Shepard will be taken into custody by James Vega to face hearing/trial, and then cut out to display the lines of text that was already in there in the demo (summarizing mass effect and the reaper threat), plus a line that says "7-9 months later", and then go back to the original cutscene with Anderson & Hackett discussing the loss of contact with the outer colonies...

This would set up the game for me enough so that I don't feel that the story is disjointed.

[DPSSOC]

2484Stryker wrote...

You know, all we really need at this point is a short cutscene showing the Normandy (in Cerberus colors) flying towards Earth with some background chatter indicating that Shepard will be taken into custody by James Vega to face hearing/trial, and then cut out to display the lines of text that was already in there in the demo (summarizing mass effect and the reaper threat), plus a line that says "7-9 months later", and then go back to the original cutscene with Anderson & Hackett discussing the loss of contact with the outer colonies...

This would set up the game for me enough so that I don't feel that the story is disjointed.

Yeah that'd be nice, just a little 2-3 minute ramble then cut to text.  You know like that opening ramble in ME1 & ME2.