2915 réponses à ce sujet

[Plasma Prestige]

The events of Arrival seem completely irrelevant then...that's why it is disappointing. Mass Effect has always been about seeing how the game world will react to your actions, and excluding the trial undermines that core principle. By the logic of "The fans already know what happened," there should not have even been an import feature to begin with.

[Dragoonlordz]

2484Stryker wrote...

You know, all we really need at this point is a short cutscene showing the Normandy (in Cerberus colors) flying towards Earth with some background chatter indicating that Shepard will be taken into custody by James Vega to face hearing/trial, and then cut out to display the lines of text that was already in there in the demo (summarizing mass effect and the reaper threat), plus a line that says "7-9 months later", and then go back to the original cutscene with Anderson & Hackett discussing the loss of contact with the outer colonies...

This would set up the game for me enough so that I don't feel that the story is disjointed.

It's not quite enough for me but would be a start.

It relies too much again on auto dialogue if all handled via a cutscene, my Shepard needs to have my input in order to still be my Shepard. If my memory serves me correct every single interaction in ME2 was through input of dialogue, you may not have had him say the exact words you decided upon but you had the choices each time even the cutscene with TiM and Miranda explaining some exposition prior to ME2 there is reason for Shepard not being present and force fed dialogue, with just those two they are not destroying immersion/persona of your Shepard. In ME3 introduction and I fear rest of game you get much less of that choice if the demo is anything to go by, this breaks immersion because it is out of character of who I spent passed two titles shaping. If someone else is force feeding lines through him which are out of character thats not a good thing for me.

Secondly my desire expands to having a confrontation with the alliance command not a chit chat with Vega after the event and not a reliance on reading two comics books where the Shepard in those is again not my Shepard that I have spent hundreds of hours through interaction shaping his persona from past two titles.

I have a desire to see the Earth prior to being left in ruins, it has never been set foot on in the entire past two titles by Shepard and given he/she was there for 6 months I would like to have some control over seeing it before it is reduced to rubble in the last in the trilogy. Upon that same principle is the interaction I would like with other inhabitants and especially the alliance command prior to them all being butchered within first couple minutes of forced dialogue and forced off the planet.

Like I said the trial is one aspect of a greater element that disappointed me, a vast wasted opportunity and one that would have not been ground breaking for those who did not wish to do take part. They could of headed right to the trial from the detention cell if they felt the desire to get right into the combat and skip that which we enjoy. But we would have had the ability to decide the pace just for short while by letting us decide when to head there, who to interact with until that point and places to visit if we so wished to gain exposition and immersion first.

@Edited for grammar and content clarification.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 18 février 2012 - 04:06 .

[2484Stryker]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

2484Stryker wrote...

You know, all we really need at this point is a short cutscene showing the Normandy (in Cerberus colors) flying towards Earth with some background chatter indicating that Shepard will be taken into custody by James Vega to face hearing/trial, and then cut out to display the lines of text that was already in there in the demo (summarizing mass effect and the reaper threat), plus a line that says "7-9 months later", and then go back to the original cutscene with Anderson & Hackett discussing the loss of contact with the outer colonies...

This would set up the game for me enough so that I don't feel that the story is disjointed.

It's not quite enough for me but would be a start.

It relies too much again on auto dialogue if all handled via a cutscene, my Shepard needs to have my input in order to still be my Shepard. If someone else is force feeding lines through him which are out of character thats not a good thing for me. Secondly my desire expands to having a confrontation with the alliance command not a chit chat with Vega after the event and not a reliance on reading two comics books where the Sheaprd in those is again not my Shepard that I have spend hundreds of hours through interaction shaping his persona from past two titles.

I have a desire to see the Earth prior to being left in ruins, it has never been set foot on in the entire past two titles and given he was there for 6 months I would like to have some control over seeing it before it is reduced to rubble in the last in the trilogy. Upon that same principle is the interaction I would like with others inhabitants and especially the alliance command prior to them all being butchered within first couple minutes of forced dialogue and forced off the planet. Like I said the trial is one aspect of a greater element that disappointed me, a vast wasted opportunity and one that could have not been ground breaking for those who did not wish to do take part. They could of headed right to the trial from the detention cell if they felt the desire to get right into the combat and skip that which we enjoy. But we would have had the ability to decide the pace just for short while by letting us decide when to head there, who to interact with on until that point and place to visit if we so wished to gain exposition and immersion first.

Yeah, I would have preferred that, too, but alas...

The demo intro as it is right now, it's like if you started ME2 watching only the conversation cutscene between the Illusive Man and Miranda discussing Shepard, and then you go straight to the Normandy SR2.  Even if you were to find out what happened to the original Normandy via conversation with the new crew, it'd still be a pretty poor way of starting the game...

[InvincibleHero]

You know they never promised a fully interactive trial. There obviously was hearing offscreen where Shepard was either stripped and detained or was never alliance anyway due to death. Anderson reinstates Shepard which obviously would have no merit unless the decision had already been made and the reaper attack delayed that until the end. (That also had more dramtic affect of BW you sly dogs).

[Plasma Prestige]

 I'm a bit skeptical on Priestly's comments. He said that the demo is directly from the beginning of the game: but we already knew that! We knew the game was going to begin on Earth. The real question is whether how the demo began is exactly how the game will begin.

If the answer to that question is yes, then the beginning of the game is a debacle if we compare it to the exceptional beginning of Mass Effect 2. 

[2484Stryker]

Plasma Prestige wrote...

 I'm a bit skeptical on Priestly's comments. He said that the demo is directly from the beginning of the game: but we already knew that! We knew the game was going to begin on Earth. The real question is whether how the demo began is exactly how the game will begin.

If the answer to that question is yes, then the beginning of the game is a debacle if we compare it to the exceptional beginning of Mass Effect 2. 

I never saw his quote on this matter, but I remember reading in this thread that he has apparently said so (that the demo intro was basically the same as in the finished game)...

[DTKT]

Plasma Prestige wrote...

 I'm a bit skeptical on Priestly's comments. He said that the demo is directly from the beginning of the game: but we already knew that! We knew the game was going to begin on Earth. The real question is whether how the demo began is exactly how the game will begin.

If the answer to that question is yes, then the beginning of the game is a debacle if we compare it to the exceptional beginning of Mass Effect 2. 

This is the beginning of ME3. The only difference is that a section on the Salarian Homeworld has been removed from the demo.

[Almostfaceman]

YankeeBravo wrote...

I don't think so.

Commissioned officer. Not like they can just chapter him out just like that. You'd be talking convening a board of inquiry/ board of review. And given Shepard's service record, that'd be like trying to dismiss Chesty Puller.

And given Bioware's loose and fast playing with military life, I highly doubt they'd use something as obscure to the general public as an administrative separation.

Whether you think so or not, it's what happened, since he wasn't court-martialed.  Administrative is the only other alternative, and it is a viable one. Staying away from flash point words like "court martial" for the public to get excited about is exactly how they would try to quietly take care of Shepard. This is why Casey Hudson tweeted he was in the process of a hearing, not a trial.

Public: "What happened to Cmdr Shepard?"
Alliance: "He's been relieved of duty and is on administrative leave while we review his return from the dead."
Public: "Oh... what's that shiny thing over there?"

[didymos1120]

Well, based on the naming scheme for some of the demo's audio files (extracted using this tool), it was definitely supposed to be a trial at some point.

proear_trial_m_d_Int (the discussion with the committee)
proear_trial_reapers_c_D_Int (as you might guess, the "Reapers attack" scene)
proear_trial_escape_a_D_Int (just the Anderson lines about heading to the spaceport)

The fact that only these three directories, which only contain 48 separate audio files together (some of which are actually empty) have "trial" in the name makes me think that it got dropped quite a while ago.

[Rudy Lis]

2484Stryker wrote...

You know, all we really need at this point is a short cutscene showing the Normandy (in Cerberus colors) flying towards Earth with some background chatter indicating that Shepard will be taken into custody by James Vega to face hearing/trial, and then cut out to display the lines of text that was already in there in the demo (summarizing mass effect and the reaper threat), plus a line that says "7-9 months later", and then go back to the original cutscene with Anderson & Hackett discussing the loss of contact with the outer colonies...

This would set up the game for me enough so that I don't feel that the story is disjointed.

I'm not sure is something wrong with my memory (3 days without sleep you know), but I thought I suggested something similar, only don't remember where. Anyway, even Medal of Honor-alike beginning should be good, if they add it. You know - in MoH we had Mother and Rabbit in Chinook (and we know where only near game's end), in ME3 we got Shepard fleeing from Earth. In MoH we had two missions prior massive A-stan invasion, in ME3 we have that mission you described - Normandy arrives to Earth and we have either trial/hearings/whatever, either as mission or cutscene for non-RPG mode, preferably with Dragoonlordz vision. Given MoH was published by EA too and BF3 used somewhat similar approach, maybe this theory is not that "delirious" as it seems.

[YankeeBravo]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Mass Effect 3 starts (roughly) 6 months after the end of Mass Effect 2. It starts with the end of the trial of Commander Shepard during which the Reapers first arrive on earth. This is the bit that starts the game and the demo.

Just for those who hadn't seen the comment from Chris.

Just my opinion, but it seems pretty unequivocal that the demo intro is exactly the game intro....

[YankeeBravo]

Almostfaceman wrote...

YankeeBravo wrote...

I don't think so.

Commissioned officer. Not like they can just chapter him out just like that. You'd be talking convening a board of inquiry/ board of review. And given Shepard's service record, that'd be like trying to dismiss Chesty Puller.

And given Bioware's loose and fast playing with military life, I highly doubt they'd use something as obscure to the general public as an administrative separation.

Whether you think so or not, it's what happened, since he wasn't court-martialed.  Administrative is the only other alternative, and it is a viable one. Staying away from flash point words like "court martial" for the public to get excited about is exactly how they would try to quietly take care of Shepard. This is why Casey Hudson tweeted he was in the process of a hearing, not a trial.

Public: "What happened to Cmdr Shepard?"
Alliance: "He's been relieved of duty and is on administrative leave while we review his return from the dead."
Public: "Oh... what's that shiny thing over there?"

It's a theory, sure. But you can't say "it's what happened" definitively. For all we know, the Alliance military doesn't have administrative separations .

And like I've said before with the idea of Shepard voluntarily leaving the Alliance/ resigning his commission, given that he knows the reapers are on the verge of returning, I can't see Shepard leaving the Alliance voluntarily or involuntarily without a huge fight.

Then you've got the issue of him apparently being detained. If this were a matter of administrative separation, and his board had concluded, there'd be no reason for him to held in a detention cell as plush as it was.

So...imho, "he was separated would be a cop out."

[1Nosphorus1]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Whether you think so or not, it's what happened, since he wasn't court-martialed.  Administrative is the only other alternative, and it is a viable one. Staying away from flash point words like "court martial" for the public to get excited about is exactly how they would try to quietly take care of Shepard. This is why Casey Hudson tweeted he was in the process of a hearing, not a trial.

Public: "What happened to Cmdr Shepard?"
Alliance: "He's been relieved of duty and is on administrative leave while we review his return from the dead."
Public: "Oh... what's that shiny thing over there?"

Why is Shepard going there anyway? He's a Spectre (in my game) and is above Aliance command, he reports to the council. If he's going there out of his own free will (a stupid idea) then why is he arriving in a brig guarded by James Vega? Now that theres pretty much no intro as confirmed by Priestly, you should realise how jarring this experience is.

Plus the fact that Shepard practically gives up and says he's not part of the alliance anymore before Anderson reinstates him, with a Cerberus Normandy that's been reclaimed I honestly don't know what the hell is going on.

[txgoldrush]

didymos1120 wrote...

Well, based on the naming scheme for some of the demo's audio files (extracted using this tool), it was definitely supposed to be a trial at some point.

proear_trial_m_d_Int (the discussion with the committee)
proear_trial_reapers_c_D_Int (as you might guess, the "Reapers attack" scene)
proear_trial_escape_a_D_Int (just the Anderson lines about heading to the spaceport)

The fact that only these three directories, which only contain 48 separate audio files together (some of which are actually empty) have "trial" in the name makes me think that it got dropped quite a while ago.

and all it was was Shep and the committee hurling accusations at eachother...

In fact, had it not been cut, you will all be here whining on how the trial was underwhelming and how the humans look like completely idiots.

[DJBare]

txgoldrush wrote...

and all it was was Shep and the committee hurling accusations at eachother...

In fact, had it not been cut, you will all be here whining on how the trial was underwhelming and how the humans look like completely idiots.

Thanks for raising awareness of this thread txgoldrush, you are a star

[txgoldrush]

Turryn wrote...

Honestly I don't care what particular plot device they were going to use.

Most people, it is fairly safe to say, did not play Arrival. Even if that's not true, there hasn't been some sudden industry wide shift wherein people are expected to have completed DLC before buying the new game.

Clearly, from DA2 on, there is someone at Bioware who thinks it is somehow interesting to just drop players into a new situation with no explanation and rush forward with the story. It is not. It's jarring and awkward, it feels lazy and it's just incredibly bad writing.

No it is no bad writing....many stories and games drop you into a new situation without explaining things only to explain them later.

Hell KOTOR II did it...the very beginning was shrouded in mystery.

You have to go by what the author is trying to do and maybe, delay your gratification for an explanation.

[txgoldrush]

DJBare wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

and all it was was Shep and the committee hurling accusations at eachother...

In fact, had it not been cut, you will all be here whining on how the trial was underwhelming and how the humans look like completely idiots.

Thanks for raising awareness of this thread txgoldrush, you are a star

and there has been a huge leak of the beta script...do I need to remind people of this....

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Plasma Prestige wrote...

The events of Arrival seem completely irrelevant then...that's why it is disappointing. Mass Effect has always been about seeing how the game world will react to your actions, and excluding the trial undermines that core principle. By the logic of "The fans already know what happened," there should not have even been an import feature to begin with.

Can be said of almost every choice one has ever made in the ME games. Just sayin'...

[Dragoonlordz]

txgoldrush wrote...

Turryn wrote...

Honestly I don't care what particular plot device they were going to use.

Most people, it is fairly safe to say, did not play Arrival. Even if that's not true, there hasn't been some sudden industry wide shift wherein people are expected to have completed DLC before buying the new game.

Clearly, from DA2 on, there is someone at Bioware who thinks it is somehow interesting to just drop players into a new situation with no explanation and rush forward with the story. It is not. It's jarring and awkward, it feels lazy and it's just incredibly bad writing.

No it is no bad writing....many stories and games drop you into a new situation without explaining things only to explain them later.

Hell KOTOR II did it...the very beginning was shrouded in mystery.

You have to go by what the author is trying to do and maybe, delay your gratification for an explanation.

Irrelevant. See reply here.

In fact why are you even in this thread? See reply here.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 18 février 2012 - 06:11 .

[txgoldrush]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Turryn wrote...

Honestly I don't care what particular plot device they were going to use.

Most people, it is fairly safe to say, did not play Arrival. Even if that's not true, there hasn't been some sudden industry wide shift wherein people are expected to have completed DLC before buying the new game.

Clearly, from DA2 on, there is someone at Bioware who thinks it is somehow interesting to just drop players into a new situation with no explanation and rush forward with the story. It is not. It's jarring and awkward, it feels lazy and it's just incredibly bad writing.

No it is no bad writing....many stories and games drop you into a new situation without explaining things only to explain them later.

Hell KOTOR II did it...the very beginning was shrouded in mystery.

You have to go by what the author is trying to do and maybe, delay your gratification for an explanation.

Irrelevant. See reply here.

In fact why are you even in this thread? See reply here.

Face facts and stop assuming you know more about the game than the writers do. That basically this whole thread...fans basing their judgement over a 30 minute intro over the writters judgement of the entire game in context.

Face it, you do not know more than the writers do.

[realguile]

I think a lands meet style trail/hearinglike in da:o would be cool and i and am sad it's not in the game, but i'm even more angry that the actual GAME is not in my 360...... Lets go march 6th!

[Dragoonlordz]

txgoldrush wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

-snip-

Irrelevant. See reply here.

In fact why are you even in this thread? See reply here.

Face facts and stop assuming you know more about the game than the writers do. That basically this whole thread...fans basing their judgement over a 30 minute intro over the writters judgement of the entire game in context.

Face it, you do not know more than the writers do.

First link since you could not be bothered to go read. Quoting parts most relevant.

Secondly my desire expands to having a confrontation with the alliance command not a chit chat with Vega after the event and not a reliance on reading two comics books where the Shepard in those is again not my Shepard that I have spent hundreds of hours through interaction shaping his persona from past two titles.

I have a desire to see the Earth prior to being left in ruins, it has never been set foot on in the entire past two titles by Shepard and given he/she was there for 6 months I would like to have some control over seeing it before it is reduced to rubble in the last in the trilogy. Upon that same principle is the interaction I would like with other inhabitants and especially the alliance command prior to them all being butchered within first couple minutes of forced dialogue and forced off the planet. 

Like I said the trial is one aspect of a greater element that disappointed me, a vast wasted opportunity and one that would have not been ground breaking for those who did not wish to do take part. They could of headed right to the trial from the detention cell if they felt the desire to get right into the combat and skip that which we enjoy. But we would have had the ability to decide the pace just for short while by letting us decide when to head there, who to interact with until that point and places to visit if we so wished to gain exposition and immersion first.

Additional context.

I don't like people using the term "need", you do not need most things this game will have, you do not even need to play the game as such need has nothing to do with it. It is more along the lines it is personal preferences just nice things to have that increases their enjoyment of the game if present.

As for myself the trial serves more purpose than just backstory. Involves interaction with people will not see again, seeing the world in a state and exploring it in a way won't see after attacked, getting to have it out with the admirals (Alliance) much in same way for past two titles you have had the opportunity with the Council. The content of that confrontation granted would make more sense to be about past actions and more. Vega cannot be an adequate substitute for that at a later date. He does not represent the Alliance command or the Admirals, his view is less important because he is a mere squad mate to be and his reaction is the reaction of one person not your government or superiors. There is vastly more to it than just trial too for me of which already explained... 

It is not reasonable for me to have to go out and buy two comics to catch up on the past events between the two games either (imho). I have no problem buying games which cover that content or DLC which covers it because in both those formats I get to take part and play a role in it, I do not consider it fair or reasonable to force me to go out and buy movies or books to fill in the blanks as the Shepard in those is not the Shepard I created from the past two titles. His persona is not my Shepards and the format allows no interaction. Put it in a game or DLC, allow choices to push you in a direction but overall allow the Shepard we know to be the one we use to see that content. 

You have just admitted yet again as have in past during this thread that you are not here to debate or discuss you are here to tell us we are wrong regardless. So I repeat what I just said in second link of my reply. 

We are not trying to convert anyone, it is the one's from the otherside of the coin who are trying to convince us we are wrong. This thread and it's shared purpose is a sign of disappointment from our side, and discussion about what we would of liked or would like to do about it. However we are not going out of our way to convince anyone from the other side they are wrong because this is our personal preferences. But the other side are coming in and trying to tell us we are wrong to feel this way or express our disappointment, ridicule our desire for a solution and bicker with anyone they can.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 18 février 2012 - 06:34 .

[Anthadlas]

txgoldrush wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Turryn wrote...

Honestly I don't care what particular plot device they were going to use.

Most people, it is fairly safe to say, did not play Arrival. Even if that's not true, there hasn't been some sudden industry wide shift wherein people are expected to have completed DLC before buying the new game.

Clearly, from DA2 on, there is someone at Bioware who thinks it is somehow interesting to just drop players into a new situation with no explanation and rush forward with the story. It is not. It's jarring and awkward, it feels lazy and it's just incredibly bad writing.

No it is no bad writing....many stories and games drop you into a new situation without explaining things only to explain them later.

Hell KOTOR II did it...the very beginning was shrouded in mystery.

You have to go by what the author is trying to do and maybe, delay your gratification for an explanation.

Irrelevant. See reply here.

In fact why are you even in this thread? See reply here.

Face facts and stop assuming you know more about the game than the writers do. That basically this whole thread...fans basing their judgement over a 30 minute intro over the writters judgement of the entire game in context.

Face it, you do not know more than the writers do.

Neither do you, how do you know there is any explanation later on in the game? The only evidence we have to go on so far is Chris saying that what u see in the demo is the very beginning of the game

[txgoldrush]

Wraith 02 wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Turryn wrote...

Honestly I don't care what particular plot device they were going to use.

Most people, it is fairly safe to say, did not play Arrival. Even if that's not true, there hasn't been some sudden industry wide shift wherein people are expected to have completed DLC before buying the new game.

Clearly, from DA2 on, there is someone at Bioware who thinks it is somehow interesting to just drop players into a new situation with no explanation and rush forward with the story. It is not. It's jarring and awkward, it feels lazy and it's just incredibly bad writing.

No it is no bad writing....many stories and games drop you into a new situation without explaining things only to explain them later.

Hell KOTOR II did it...the very beginning was shrouded in mystery.

You have to go by what the author is trying to do and maybe, delay your gratification for an explanation.

Irrelevant. See reply here.

In fact why are you even in this thread? See reply here.

Face facts and stop assuming you know more about the game than the writers do. That basically this whole thread...fans basing their judgement over a 30 minute intro over the writters judgement of the entire game in context.

Face it, you do not know more than the writers do.

Neither do you, how do you know there is any explanation later on in the game? The only evidence we have to go on so far is Chris saying that what u see in the demo is the very beginning of the game

I don't, I never did...I only said there MAY be an explanation.

[Dragoonlordz]

txgoldrush wrote...

Wraith 02 wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Irrelevant. See reply here.

In fact why are you even in this thread? See reply here.

Face facts and stop assuming you know more about the game than the writers do. That basically this whole thread...fans basing their judgement over a 30 minute intro over the writters judgement of the entire game in context.

Face it, you do not know more than the writers do.

Neither do you, how do you know there is any explanation later on in the game? The only evidence we have to go on so far is Chris saying that what u see in the demo is the very beginning of the game

I don't, I never did...I only said there MAY be an explanation.

As I said that is irrelvant to what I am talking about and not a solution either. I find it very strange you cannot grasp the concept of personal preferences. I can understand your preference is different, that you prefer that we don't get what we have talked about in here. What I do not get is why you have spent pages trolling, attacking, arguing and trying to prove that somehow your preference is superior and ours is just wrong. It's personal preference and in being so it is subjective and different for each individual. 

Again go read this as what you believe may happen once more does not resolve my issue with it no matter how many times you try to convince me otherwise.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 18 février 2012 - 06:52 .