2915 réponses à ce sujet

[txgoldrush]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Wraith 02 wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Irrelevant. See reply here.

In fact why are you even in this thread? See reply here.

Face facts and stop assuming you know more about the game than the writers do. That basically this whole thread...fans basing their judgement over a 30 minute intro over the writters judgement of the entire game in context.

Face it, you do not know more than the writers do.

Neither do you, how do you know there is any explanation later on in the game? The only evidence we have to go on so far is Chris saying that what u see in the demo is the very beginning of the game

I don't, I never did...I only said there MAY be an explanation.

As I said that is irrelvant to what I am talking about and not a solution either. I find it very strange you cannot grasp the concept of personal preferences. I can understand your preference is different, that you prefer that we don't get what we have talked about in here. What I do not get is why you have spent pages trolling, attacking, arguing and trying to prove that somehow your preference is superior and ours is just wrong. It's personal preference and in being so it is subjective and different for each individual. 

Again go read this as what you believe may happen once more does not resolve my issue with it no matter how many times you try to convince me otherwise.

And personal preferences can be based on incomplete pictures....like yours.

And when did I say that a trial done right wasn't a good thing...all I said this entire thread is the trial may not be necessary and if done poorly could be a deteriment. Then brining the leak in, I can see multiple reasons why it was cut.

I am not the one basing my opinions on incomplete pictures.

Its like judging an upcoming album poorly because you didn't like the first single. Its illogical.

Modifié par txgoldrush, 18 février 2012 - 07:16 .

[android654]

txgoldrush wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Wraith 02 wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Irrelevant. See reply here.

In fact why are you even in this thread? See reply here.

Face facts and stop assuming you know more about the game than the writers do. That basically this whole thread...fans basing their judgement over a 30 minute intro over the writters judgement of the entire game in context.

Face it, you do not know more than the writers do.

Neither do you, how do you know there is any explanation later on in the game? The only evidence we have to go on so far is Chris saying that what u see in the demo is the very beginning of the game

I don't, I never did...I only said there MAY be an explanation.

As I said that is irrelvant to what I am talking about and not a solution either. I find it very strange you cannot grasp the concept of personal preferences. I can understand your preference is different, that you prefer that we don't get what we have talked about in here. What I do not get is why you have spent pages trolling, attacking, arguing and trying to prove that somehow your preference is superior and ours is just wrong. It's personal preference and in being so it is subjective and different for each individual. 

Again go read this as what you believe may happen once more does not resolve my issue with it no matter how many times you try to convince me otherwise.

And personal preferences can be based on incomplete pictures....like yours.

And when did I say that a trial done right wasn't a good thing...all I said this entire thread is the trial may not be necessary and if done poorly could be a deteriment. Then brining the leak in, I can see multiple reasons why it was cut.

I am not the one basing my opinions on incomplete pictures.

Its like judging an upcoming album poorly because you didn't like the first single. Its illogical.

If a single is bad, what incentive do you have to listen to the entire album?

Modifié par android654, 18 février 2012 - 07:19 .

[squee365]

Earth is the prelude.

Mars is the real intro.

[txgoldrush]

android654 wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Wraith 02 wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Irrelevant. See reply here.

In fact why are you even in this thread? See reply here.

Face facts and stop assuming you know more about the game than the writers do. That basically this whole thread...fans basing their judgement over a 30 minute intro over the writters judgement of the entire game in context.

Face it, you do not know more than the writers do.

Neither do you, how do you know there is any explanation later on in the game? The only evidence we have to go on so far is Chris saying that what u see in the demo is the very beginning of the game

I don't, I never did...I only said there MAY be an explanation.

As I said that is irrelvant to what I am talking about and not a solution either. I find it very strange you cannot grasp the concept of personal preferences. I can understand your preference is different, that you prefer that we don't get what we have talked about in here. What I do not get is why you have spent pages trolling, attacking, arguing and trying to prove that somehow your preference is superior and ours is just wrong. It's personal preference and in being so it is subjective and different for each individual. 

Again go read this as what you believe may happen once more does not resolve my issue with it no matter how many times you try to convince me otherwise.

And personal preferences can be based on incomplete pictures....like yours.

And when did I say that a trial done right wasn't a good thing...all I said this entire thread is the trial may not be necessary and if done poorly could be a deteriment. Then brining the leak in, I can see multiple reasons why it was cut.

I am not the one basing my opinions on incomplete pictures.

Its like judging an upcoming album poorly because you didn't like the first single. Its illogical.

If a single is bad, what incentive do you have to listen to the entire album?

If its a band you liked in the past, plenty.

[Plasma Prestige]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Plasma Prestige wrote...

The events of Arrival seem completely irrelevant then...that's why it is disappointing. Mass Effect has always been about seeing how the game world will react to your actions, and excluding the trial undermines that core principle. By the logic of "The fans already know what happened," there should not have even been an import feature to begin with.

Can be said of almost every choice one has ever made in the ME games. Just sayin'...

Every major choice? How so? Elaborate.

Picking whether Ashley or Kaiden survive made a difference. Killing or sparing Wrex made a difference, and I would hope that destroying or keeping the Collector Base will make a difference. Yes, whether you are a jerk or not to one miscallenous character during some mission in Mass Effect 2 does not matter, but it is not a major decision. 

[android654]

txgoldrush wrote...
If its a band you liked in the past, plenty.

Few things bother me more than hearing a talented musician write a bad song. This is an example of a good series starting off their final chapter poorly. Is it not easy to see why people would criticize it?

[DPSSOC]

txgoldrush wrote...

Turryn wrote...
Honestly I don't care what particular plot device they were going to use.

Most people, it is fairly safe to say, did not play Arrival. Even if that's not true, there hasn't been some sudden industry wide shift wherein people are expected to have completed DLC before buying the new game.

Clearly, from DA2 on, there is someone at Bioware who thinks it is somehow interesting to just drop players into a new situation with no explanation and rush forward with the story. It is not. It's jarring and awkward, it feels lazy and it's just incredibly bad writing.

No it is no bad writing....many stories and games drop you into a new situation without explaining things only to explain them later.

Hell KOTOR II did it...the very beginning was shrouded in mystery.

Well let's look at Kotor II, it's been a while so I may be misremembering.  Yes the opening raises a lot of questions; where am I, how did I get here, who is this woman, etc.  The difference between how KotOR II handled this and the ME3 demo is that KotOR answered these questions before you left the station, or in other words before the answers didn't matter anymore.  The demo doesn't pull that off, which means we can only hope to get answers long after such answers become pointless.

Where's my ship? Does not matter got it back now
How did I end up on Earth? Again does not matter anymore
Why am I in a detention center?  DNM
When/how was I stripped of my ran? DNM
Who is the defence committee? DNM
Why am I answering to them? DNM
If I'm being kept around to help about the Reapers why don't I appear to have been doing anything?  DNM
If the Committee believes me about the Reapers why don't they appear to have been doing anything?  DNM

The only questioned raised for me in the opening of the demo that's still worth answering after the conclusion of that segment is who the hell is Vega?  That's.  Bad.  Writing.

[Dragoonlordz]

squee365 wrote...

Earth is the prelude.

Mars is the real intro.

Whether it is called an introduction or prelude my issue or more accurately 'disappointment' remains the same.

I have a desire to see the Earth prior to being left in ruins, it has never been set foot on in the entire past two titles by Shepard and given he/she was there for 6 months I would like to have some control over seeing it before it is reduced to rubble in the last in the trilogy. Upon that same principle is the interaction I would like with other inhabitants and especially the alliance command prior to them all being butchered within first couple minutes of forced dialogue and forced off the planet. 

Like I said the trial is one aspect of a greater element that disappointed me, a vast wasted opportunity and one that would have not been ground breaking for those who did not wish to do take part. They could of headed right to the trial from the detention cell if they felt the desire to get right into the combat and skip that which we enjoy. But we would have had the ability to decide the pace just for short while by letting us decide when to head there, who to interact with until that point and places to visit if we so wished to gain exposition and immersion first. 

As for myself the trial serves more purpose than just backstory. Involves interaction with people will not see again, seeing the world in a state and exploring it in a way won't see after attacked, getting to have it out with the admirals (Alliance) much in same way for past two titles you have had the opportunity with the Council. The content of that confrontation granted would make more sense to be about past actions and more. Vega cannot be an adequate substitute for that at a later date. He does not represent the Alliance command or the Admirals, his view is less important because he is a mere squad mate to be and his reaction is the reaction of one person not your government or superiors. There is vastly more to it than just trial too for me of which already explained...

Other people may have different preferences on this but that is mine.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 18 février 2012 - 07:28 .

[Prent62]

Wow wow wow...

The beginning of the demo was bad? How so? Yes, we didn't get to see the trial, but it is obvious this part was simply cut from the demo, or most likely takes place after you leave Earth, like how Genesis took place just after Shepard died in ME2.

The beginning of the demo was great. We are immediately launched into the orbit of Earth for the first time, and wondering just when the Reapers will turn up. Communications cut? Oh ****. Then the moment with the Alliance Council and the whole of Earth's communications going to hell was brilliant.
After some brilliant action scenes, we finally get the scene where Shepard leaves Earth. I don't know about you, but this scene was one of the most emotional I've seen in the Mass Effect series, or videogames in general.

I don't get you guys. You claim to be biggest fans of the series but you are the guys who hate it the most.

[AxisEvolve]

Prent62 wrote...

 Yes, we didn't get to see the trial, but it is obvious this part was simply cut from the demo, or most likely takes place after you leave Earth, like how Genesis took place just after Shepard died in ME2.

Extremely unlikely. The evidence is leaning towards the trial being cut out of the game.

[Hasse0]

Maybe that scene will be in for those who have the save from ME2? Somethings in ME2 where different if you had the save from ME1 after all?

[Vez04]

Prent62 wrote...

Wow wow wow...

The beginning of the demo was bad? How so? Yes, we didn't get to see the trial, but it is obvious this part was simply cut from the demo, or most likely takes place after you leave Earth, like how Genesis took place just after Shepard died in ME2.

The beginning of the demo was great. We are immediately launched into the orbit of Earth for the first time, and wondering just when the Reapers will turn up. Communications cut? Oh ****. Then the moment with the Alliance Council and the whole of Earth's communications going to hell was brilliant.
After some brilliant action scenes, we finally get the scene where Shepard leaves Earth. I don't know about you, but this scene was one of the most emotional I've seen in the Mass Effect series, or videogames in general.

I don't get you guys. You claim to be biggest fans of the series but you are the guys who hate it the most.

Blame getting too hyped/or some people have very high expectations, and so for them, the demo has not meet those.

[Dragoonlordz]

Prent62 wrote...

Wow wow wow...

The beginning of the demo was bad? How so? Yes, we didn't get to see the trial, but it is obvious this part was simply cut from the demo, or most likely takes place after you leave Earth, like how Genesis took place just after Shepard died in ME2.

The beginning of the demo was great. We are immediately launched into the orbit of Earth for the first time, and wondering just when the Reapers will turn up. Communications cut? Oh ****. Then the moment with the Alliance Council and the whole of Earth's communications going to hell was brilliant.
After some brilliant action scenes, we finally get the scene where Shepard leaves Earth. I don't know about you, but this scene was one of the most emotional I've seen in the Mass Effect series, or videogames in general.

I don't get you guys. You claim to be biggest fans of the series but you are the guys who hate it the most.

I am glad you enjoyed it, I have no problems with others enjoyment being higher than my own. If everyone felt the same about everything the world would be a rather dull place. Dislike or less enjoyment gained from specific aspects of a title does not mean we or anyone here hates the game. All of us I am sure are still keeping our pre-orders, will enjoy most of the game but we just have some disappointment in 'some' aspects of it. This is natural and does not mean we are not fans. Your enjoyment/love of the start of the game is fine I have nothing against such, in fact I am glad. My own feelings were listed right above your post and pertain to my own enjoyment of the game, what could have increased it and why I did not gain as much enjoyment as yourself for that specific element/aspect of the title.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 18 février 2012 - 07:53 .

[YankeeBravo]

Hasse0 wrote...

Maybe that scene will be in for those who have the save from ME2? Somethings in ME2 where different if you had the save from ME1 after all?

No, it's already been mentioned that the only change for an imported save game is one line of dialogue where Anderson specifically mentions the result of Arrival rather than the generic "the **** you pulled" line.

[DPSSOC]

Prent62 wrote...
Wow wow wow...

The beginning of the demo was bad? How so? Yes, we didn't get to see the trial, but it is obvious this part was simply cut from the demo, or most likely takes place after you leave Earth, like how Genesis took place just after Shepard died in ME2.

I don't think people are saying the demo was bad, just that the lack of a trial is disappointing for many people.  The, "it will happen after" defense has been used before but it doesn't work.  It's made clear that any disciplinary action against Shepard has been taken already so there's no need for him to go to trial even after the first 5 seconds, so having a trial after Earth is not only pointless it's redundant.  The other option is a flashback which by the time you leave Earth is pointless; why go over the reason you were grounded on Earth when you're no longer grounded on Earth?

As for it being cut from the demo that's a possibility to but it's been stated that the first portion of the demo is copy past of the finished product.  So maybe they're just telling us that so we're all the happier when it turns out the trial is in the game after all.

Prent62 wrote...
The beginning of the demo was great. We are immediately launched into the orbit of Earth for the first time, and wondering just when the Reapers will turn up. Communications cut? Oh ****. Then the moment with the Alliance Council and the whole of Earth's communications going to hell was brilliant.
After some brilliant action scenes, we finally get the scene where Shepard leaves Earth. I don't know about you, but this scene was one of the most emotional I've seen in the Mass Effect series, or videogames in general.

I enjoyed the action scenes too but Mass Effect is still being marketed as an RPG shooter and considering the vast majority of Sheps dialogue is automatic I find that part of the game disappointing.  Again the action was fun for me, but that's only half the game, and not even the half that I, personally, follow the series for.

[incinerator950]

DPSSOC wrote...

I enjoyed the action scenes too but Mass Effect is still being marketed as an RPG shooter and considering the vast majority of Sheps dialogue is automatic I find that part of the game disappointing.  Again the action was fun for me, but that's only half the game, and not even the half that I, personally, follow the series for.

Yeah, I've already accepted from ME 1 that the series is a TPS with RPG qualities and a lot of dialogue.  The RPG element is a joke and the character immersion is an illusion half of the time. 

I wouldn't play the series if all of the elements didn't combine.  The pie is better then the slice you're pulling out of.  A good story only lasts for a few games.  Good combat doesn't excel at poor level design, poor exploration, and constant talking about someone's history when you need to know what the problem is now. 

[phimseto]

squee365 wrote...

Earth is the prelude.

Mars is the real intro.

True, and unfortunately, that's where I expect the other shoe to drop for me...when Cerberus goes from interesting shade of grey/possibly necessary evil to "Gnargh!  EVIL!" with Indoctrination as a lazy excuse.

[Harshfact]

DPSSOC wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Turryn wrote...
Honestly I don't care what particular plot device they were going to use.

Most people, it is fairly safe to say, did not play Arrival. Even if that's not true, there hasn't been some sudden industry wide shift wherein people are expected to have completed DLC before buying the new game.

Clearly, from DA2 on, there is someone at Bioware who thinks it is somehow interesting to just drop players into a new situation with no explanation and rush forward with the story. It is not. It's jarring and awkward, it feels lazy and it's just incredibly bad writing.

No it is no bad writing....many stories and games drop you into a new situation without explaining things only to explain them later.

Hell KOTOR II did it...the very beginning was shrouded in mystery.

Well let's look at Kotor II, it's been a while so I may be misremembering.  Yes the opening raises a lot of questions; where am I, how did I get here, who is this woman, etc.  The difference between how KotOR II handled this and the ME3 demo is that KotOR answered these questions before you left the station, or in other words before the answers didn't matter anymore.  The demo doesn't pull that off, which means we can only hope to get answers long after such answers become pointless.

Where's my ship? Does not matter got it back now
How did I end up on Earth? Again does not matter anymore
Why am I in a detention center?  DNM
When/how was I stripped of my ran? DNM
Who is the defence committee? DNM
Why am I answering to them? DNM
If I'm being kept around to help about the Reapers why don't I appear to have been doing anything?  DNM
If the Committee believes me about the Reapers why don't they appear to have been doing anything?  DNM

The only questioned raised for me in the opening of the demo that's still worth answering after the conclusion of that segment is who the hell is Vega?  That's.  Bad.  Writing.

I'm not a huge fan of the intro but you do realise that apart from one or two questions among your list we sort of know ALL THE ANSWERS before ME 3 even starts right ? this is a sequel after all. while in KOTOR 2 there was NO introduction as to the questions asked in KOTOR. so unless you're complaining it's not good enough for someone who is new to the series (which i think they shouldn't expect to jsut jump in and get everything) i don't see your point

Where's my ship? uh...Grounded ?
How did I end up on Earth? If you've played the Arrivial it's more than clear ...even if you haven't shep's still pretty guilty by playing the whole cerbrus side

Why am I in a detention center?  refer to my previous answer
When/how was I stripped of my ran? refer to the pre-previous answer

Who is the defence committee? this one i admit is "DNM" but does it really matter? they are a group of admirals

Why am I answering to them? For the love of...Anderson already explained this...HELL it was even asked by shep himself

If I'm being kept around to help about the Reapers why don't I appear to have been doing anything?  Shep seemes to be pissed off about this too "that's why they grounded me, took away my ship..." next one will explain this though
If the Committee believes me about the Reapers why don't they appear to have been doing anything?  huh! here i thought "mobilising the fleet bit was about this. officially Reapers are just a "myth"  but there is also strogn evidence so they're sort of up in the air about it.

Again not a huge fan of the into but your comparsion with KOTOR 2 just isn't right no offense

[khankar]

DPSSOC wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Turryn wrote...
Honestly I don't care what particular plot device they were going to use.

Most people, it is fairly safe to say, did not play Arrival. Even if that's not true, there hasn't been some sudden industry wide shift wherein people are expected to have completed DLC before buying the new game.

Clearly, from DA2 on, there is someone at Bioware who thinks it is somehow interesting to just drop players into a new situation with no explanation and rush forward with the story. It is not. It's jarring and awkward, it feels lazy and it's just incredibly bad writing.

No it is no bad writing....many stories and games drop you into a new situation without explaining things only to explain them later.

Hell KOTOR II did it...the very beginning was shrouded in mystery.

Well let's look at Kotor II, it's been a while so I may be misremembering.  Yes the opening raises a lot of questions; where am I, how did I get here, who is this woman, etc.  The difference between how KotOR II handled this and the ME3 demo is that KotOR answered these questions before you left the station, or in other words before the answers didn't matter anymore.  The demo doesn't pull that off, which means we can only hope to get answers long after such answers become pointless.

Where's my ship? Does not matter got it back now
How did I end up on Earth? Again does not matter anymore
Why am I in a detention center?  DNM
When/how was I stripped of my ran? DNM
Who is the defence committee? DNM
Why am I answering to them? DNM
If I'm being kept around to help about the Reapers why don't I appear to have been doing anything?  DNM
If the Committee believes me about the Reapers why don't they appear to have been doing anything?  DNM

The only questioned raised for me in the opening of the demo that's still worth answering after the conclusion of that segment is who the hell is Vega?  That's.  Bad.  Writing.

give bioware a break. remember this is just a demo. the final build may not necessarily start the same way. demo's often leave out parts that may contain spoilers. i don't think we should judge an unreleased game solely by its demo. let's play the finished product and then complain about bad writing (if applicable).

[izmirtheastarach]

khankar wrote...

give bioware a break. remember this is just a demo. the final build may not necessarily start the same way. demo's often leave out parts that may contain spoilers. i don't think we should judge an unreleased game solely by its demo. let's play the finished product and then complain about bad writing (if applicable).

How many times must it be said. We have been explicitly told that it is the same. There is nothing cut out of the intro. Having listend to all the dialogue options in the audio files, there are slight differences for imports, and for things like Spectre status, but most of that is a couple of lines only. Other then that eveything is in there.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 18 février 2012 - 09:06 .

[Rickin10]

give bioware a break. remember this is just a demo. the final build may not necessarily start the same way. demo's often leave out parts that may contain spoilers. i don't think we should judge an unreleased game solely by its demo. let's play the finished product and then complain about bad writing (if applicable).

It's been confirmed the intro/earth section is exactly the same, save for one sentence uttered by Anderson.

[izmirtheastarach]

Rickin10 wrote...

give bioware a break. remember this is just a demo. the final build may not necessarily start the same way. demo's often leave out parts that may contain spoilers. i don't think we should judge an unreleased game solely by its demo. let's play the finished product and then complain about bad writing (if applicable).

It's been confirmed the intro/earth section is exactly the same, save for one sentence uttered by Anderson.

Yep. All the dialogue is in the audio files as well. The differences are tiny. You used to be a Council Spectre/You are a Council Spectre. Stuff like that.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 18 février 2012 - 09:09 .

[Rickin10]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

 You used to be a Council Spectre...

'Now I am reduced to Auto-Sheperd!!!  Watch me speak without your meddlesome input!!!!'

[AxisEvolve]

khankar wrote...
give bioware a break. remember this is just a demo. the final build may not necessarily start the same way. demo's often leave out parts that may contain spoilers. i don't think we should judge an unreleased game solely by its demo. let's play the finished product and then complain about bad writing (if applicable).

It was confirmed by Bioware that the demo intro was taken straight from the final game. Supposedly someone got the game early (check the spoiler group for more info) and you only get an additional line from Anderson if you import from ME2. Although I won't deny that isn't 100% confirmed as true. I still hold hope that things will be change and the intro will be introduced in a more consistent manner, but I doubt it more and more now.

Modifié par AxisEvolve, 18 février 2012 - 09:13 .

[movieguyabw]

give bioware a break. remember this is just a demo. the final build may not necessarily start the same way. demo's often leave out parts that may contain spoilers. i don't think we should judge an unreleased game solely by its demo. let's play the finished product and then complain about bad writing (if applicable).

For me, this is why I'm still looking forward to the game.  However, I agree with a lot of the criticisms I've seen about the demo (I even posted my thoughts on the feedback thread).  All I'm (and I'm sure what everyone else is) looking for is confirmation that this isn't the official intro.  A 15-20 minute segment prior to Shepard staring out the window at the little kid would nulify a lot of complaints; where it's explained how Shepard got to Earth, why he's incarcerated, who Vega is, and why everyone suddenly believes you about the Reapers.  If that's in the game, then I'm all for the intro.  I'm just hoping Bioware comes out and actually states that a large chunk was taken out of the intro, for spoiler purposes.